investforlife
jay
nocotecAfter months of waiting, OLINT investors are again on watch. In a quandary, many are on watching, listening and feeling around for something that will let them know that the money is here. Some are wondering whether to sue or not, others are thinking evil thoughts that we do not recommend. Violence does not solve anything.
Whatever the reasons, greed, need or peer pressure, that drove person to invest in OLINT and other UFOs , OLINT and other UFO investors face a problem of payments being promised and not being delivered, repeated schedules announced and repeated excuses. The excuses given for non-payment have included the FSC, BOJ, NCB, to the now popular one “Due Dilligence” or simply “I don’t know”.
Mirage in desert
In early June, after a months of speculation, some money did flow from the OLINT coffers but only very few persons got any relief. No sooner had the mirage appeared and hopes lifted, it disappeared.
For awhile it seemed like the detractors would be proven wrong and have to hang their heads in shame. Seriously though, detractors like myself would have no problem saying we were wrong for at least people would have gotten back there money. It is sad to see how some people are sufffering but it is worst to see people blind to the fact that maybe they are being scammed. Some who have publicly comforted themselves that they “invested what they could afford to lose”, are now very worried and are silently talking to the lawyers.2
When the trickle of money dried up, reality set in and by the end of June, many angry investors were left bitterly disappointed but others found more excuses and refuse to face the possibility that something was wrong.
Suspension of Reason.
Many Investors simply cannot beleive that their hero would do this to them and have suspended reasoning and rational and are now simply cling on to faith, dispite the overwhelming evidence that something is wrong. I understand the term is Cognitive Dissonance.
Word of Comfort
In the now famous radio interview, David Smith has said his fingers were crossed. I suspect that now his toes are are crossed, as he cannot afford Friday evening to pass with out him delivering some word of comfort to the Olint faithful. The Olint Faithful whose faith have been tested and tried now need a word of comfort to soothe their troubled souls. Will such a word come this evening or will the misery continue over the weekend?
While we wait for a ‘word of comfort’, so that we can post an article entitled “Money deh yah”, we invite you to check the following links.
- Try the Scam meter today http://www.investright.org/scammeter.aspx
- Check the red flag meter http://www.investright.org/redflag.aspx
Filed under: Olint | Tagged: David Smith, Olint, Scheme, TCI FX |
Real Investments For Life 
oh-ohh … (to the sound of a heavy wet wind – fragrance ‘la riverton 2008′) … look like we soon see de las’ scene … (fanning vigorously) … so, wey de ‘star bwoy’ dey … ’cause it caan dun without him … quick, Puncie, give some of de popcorn to LightDeFuseandRun … (munch, munch, munch) … ’cause me caan get up an’ leave dis!!!
I was always under the impression that that Olint Investors
(a) very well off (high net worth Individuals)
(b) sophisticated investors
(c) only invest what they can afford to lose
So why is it that some of them calling Nationwide Radio Station complaining about the lack of payment today? That is not consistent with (a) – (c).
DaveSin
You are right for many, but way off for others. I know many who invested what they could not afford to lose, taken in by the “God-like” status of DS. He sold himself magnificently, but hey, JA is loves messiah’s.
Nationwide said sources inside Olint (2 sources) that the Due Dilligence was completed on Wednesday and Olint is awaiting the wire transfer. Apparrently, Olint is in TCI and apparently, Dave or Wayne is not answering the phone.
So, I don’t think any money has arrived into Jamaica.
Davesin, nobody ever said all OLINT investors are high net worth, sophisticated and invested only affordable to lose. Why all this twisting? I clearly said that there are all sorts of people who invested, some unsophisticated, sophisticated, some rich, some poor, some educated, some uneducated, some intelligent, some not so intelligent, some for good reasons, some for not so good reasons. kinda like the mix of people on this blog.
Investforlife,
I am disappointed that you have made it clear that you have an agenda with you opinion editorializing. Many of us hoped that you would try to be a purveyor of news, not op-ed pieces. Whereas before, I was withholding judgment about what others have noted as your clear intent to aid in the downfall of OLINT, I am now really beginning to wonder if you can really live up to expectation that many of the bloggers and readers of this blog have for you in terms of being a journalistic entity and not something akin to Fox News (claiming to be fair and balanced, when in fact their agenda is clear). My suspicion is that if you continue to do this, the patrons of this site will dwindle. Leave the op-eds to the bloggers and stick to the facilitator role.
Thats my 2 cents.
PS: you and nocotec, happened to be incorrect. In finance, the concept of discretionary resources (i.e. money not critical to normal operation and continuation of life) is well-established. When people go to Vegas, and blow $1,000 on the slot machines…thats discretionary resources. if they took that same $1000 that they could afford to blow in Vegas, and invest that …that is referred to as money that one can afford to lose.
Of course the problem here is that many people invested much than that their discretionary resources would allow. For them, this concept means nothing in this case. But as technical matter it is incorrect factually to state that the notion of investing what you could lose is a false notion.
See this is the problem when you get into the opinion editorial business. You open yourself to being called on stuff like this.
But having said that, David has to tell us what is going on! He has to open up communication more regularly.
Good old Dave and Wayne cant be reached. Hmmmm I wonder why. If they had any respect for there ‘investors’ they would have addressed the issue. Now it looks like they will come out with a new set of BS over the next coming days.
Heck we may even get another Carlos Hill or Higgins Warner ‘schedule’ for repayment. Then people will come on the blogs saying give them more time and when the date is missed it will be more time again then more broken promises then probably blame some bank, the regulators or whoever will do.
We have seen this script already……………
Hermes the interpreter of the Gods. Did you see the new wiring instructions Super Dave posted. Why dont you and your sophisticated investors go and wire some money to the ConMan so they can pay back your fellow brethren like Olint for life.
a pure spinning a gwaan….lewfam said on monday that olint was in possesion of the cash …now to wire it off….now naTIONWide is saying dd is over since this wednesday….and o waiting on brokers to wire mony….whats that all about.
Hey Jason, why dont you go **** yourself!
Your bitter sarcasm is not necessary. If you dont behave, I will have take out my belt and start beating you all over again! Quick while you are ahead, Mr “basic common sense investor” who lies about his background to intimidate people.
So Hermes, yu get yu money yet?
Hermes this language is very unlike you. You seemed so “educated” and polished with your posts that went on and on and on …..So yu get yu money yet?
Johnny P,
I have some information that I cannot share right now.
Thats all I will say right now. This blog I fear is being used by those who want to sabatoge OLINT. eg. note the email to Oanda posted previously, meant to appear to be soliciting information but had the effect of potentially creating more problems for OLINT (i.e. falsely stating that David called out Oanda’s name on radio interview when no such thing occurred).
Those who want to keep open the possibly of seeing their money paid, have to be strategic. Dont give out any information that naysayers can potentially use to put a roadblock in front of attempts to pay out money.
I never said I was an investor with OLINT. I have said that I knew some people who invested. Some of whom are accredited investors.
Hermes:
I did not say YOU said (a) – (c). I said I was under that impression based on all that I have read on this and other sites….did not say it was the correct assumption!
Hermes the Great interpreter of the gods. I did not hear from you in a while, I figured you were in the heavens getting some more divine reasoning to give me so that you could justify the foolish reasons for giving money to the Con Man.
Ohh yes you beat me badly with your sophistication so since you ‘won’ the argument so go ahead and send off that wire to JMMB’s finest graduate and world renown Super Dave….lol
Davesin, ok cool! I hear you
But why would you still get that impression when you know so many people on this blog over the past few months who have indicated that they are just regular folk trying find out whats going on with their money? It just seemed a little disingenuous to put that out there like that.
But as I said. Cool, no problem!
Yes Jason
You need to disappear.
Bwoy, mi nuh know how you nuh av nuh shame.
You need to start behaving properly on these blogs and behave more responsibly as I have noted in Jays’ recent postings.
People
Jason reminds me of Moose that is featured in the Archie comics:
“Dumb as they come.”
Olint-for-life
Hermes:
Do you read the other blog I4L? If you do, you will understand why I said what I said.
I also agree with Jonny P about your earlier statement. Jason look like he is getting to you, but you have know Jason. We respect everyone on this blog…believe it or not.
Davesin,
No I don’t read the other blog. I looked at that site briefly but could not see any clear delivery of objective news. I much prefer the format of this site. But I dont expect biased news either.
I am looking for news reporting like everyone else on this blog.
As far as Jason goes. No he is not getting to me. I was actually attempting to be humorous with that comment.
Hermes,
I have some information too. It’s called common sense. There shall be no wire. There is no money. There never was any 10% profits per month. Your divine leader David Smith has deserted his flock. But as he departed he did ask for all of Jamaica to pray for Olint and to pray for him. Hermes, since you are the interpreter of the gods do you wish to lead us in prayer?
Hermes
I have this question for you.
From the interview, and based on what others have told me, what do you think is the motive of those persons who were carrying out the due diligence, by seeming to stretch out the damn thing by asking for info one at a time, instead of all at once?
Olint-for-life
Olint for life..you are backyou and Hermes the great interpreter of the gods need to stop talking nonsense. Who is the one talking about meeting and how banks stopping Olint’s payments. Who is the one that gave away money to a conman based on the foolish reasons you and your friend Hermes cited an sound reasoning.
Who is the one in the face of the obvious cant see the truth?
Now Super ConMan Dave will come tommorow with another BS statement and who i am sure you will gobble it all up and instructing people to wait.
Now who is ‘as Dumb as they come’
Olint-for-life,
Jason may be dumb but I can assure you David Smith and his company does not owe HIM any money. And yet despite that fact I am sure he will be joining in the prayer this evening that will be led by Hermes.
Johnny P,
Thats my point. it is people like you that I will advise others who have money tied up in OLINT to not let people you and others on this site inveigle them to do something prematurely that they could end up regretting, and not to give out any strategic information meant only for clubmembers.
But I tell you what. If Olint turns out to be lying, I will be the first one to call down fire and brimstone. Just not that time yet.
You know, reflecting on the attitudes on this site, i remember the OJ simpson trial. Some swear blind that him is a murderer; others swear that him nuh do it.
You had to wait until the trial is over to get the full facts. You and Jason coming like those who want to call down a guilty verdict before the trial is over.
The trial is almost over, so to speak. What do you have to lose? You guys will have more than enough time to gloat with your I told you so. So uno just wait and see for a likle bit more nuh!
Jason as I said before I consider myself an information collector… back in my high school days I read Greek mythology among extensively among other things… anyway from the Web…
Sorry Hermes 🙂 Are you official messenger of the JA god and messiah DS?
“HERMES was the great Olympian God of animal husbandry, roads, travel, hospitality, heralds, diplomacy, trade, thievery, language, writing, persuasion, cunning wiles, athletic contests, gymnasiums, astronomy, and astrology. He was also the personal agent and herald of Zeus, the king of the gods. Hermes was depicted as either a handsome and athletic, beardless youth, or as an older bearded man. His attributes included the herald’s wand or kerykeion (Latin caduceus), winged boots, and sometimes a winged travellers cap and chlamys cloak.
Some of the more famous myths featuring the god include:–
* The theft of Apollon’s cattle which he accomplished as a toddler in the crib;”
Johny P
I will respond to you.
Please don’t follow that fellow name J***n.
I heard that his other name is “*****”, and the persons who “follow” him around are called “NUTS” or “BALLS”.
Take your pick.
Olint-for-life
Johnny P.
I think Hermes the great interpreter of the gods can only interpret what the gods(David Smith and Wayne Smith) says. He cant do any thing else. Go and review his firsts set of posts why he gave money to DS. They are fitting for Hermes and his band of ‘sophisticated fools’.
So he wont realise that his god(David Smith) has been feeding him nonsense. So while a great interpreter he may be I am afraid he lacks basic investing ‘common sense’
Guys
The discussion we are having requires us to be clean and decent. Remember, THE BAR HAS BEEN RAISED.”
So please come inside and not associate yourselves with anybody who looks like they have been playing in the mud, and want you to play with them also.
Please try and look decent at all times, so you will look like “smaddy pickney”.
Olint-for-life
NoCotec.
Thank you for enlightening me. On who Hermes is(was). In a previous conversation with the great Hermes he told me that amongst other things Hermes was an interpreter of the Gods. But now you have expanded on the meaning I now have a more complete picture.
I have found his posts extremely entertaining, his reasoning for investing with Dave was quite ‘sophisticated’ to say the least.
Thanks for the information. I must admit greek mythology was not one of my strong points
Hey, you guys are moving away from the high standards we have set on this site and our former C+ home.
Olint-for-Life, bwoy you getting crude now. You could not say what you said earlier on the I4L site…..disappointing. Another thing, we do not run people off this site like the other one. Let us focus on Olint related issues.
I tell you what, since nocotec, johnny p, jason, have so much balls now.
Answer me one thing. Why have you ran from debating me on the 9 point mini-debate challenge? Is it because you know you cannot show that the premises are false? I still dare uno to. But you wont. You guys are cowards who hide behind your dodging.
Even if David does not pay out money this week, or turns out to not have the money, it will not change the facts that I presented as the basis for many to take the risk.
You guys have no intellectual honesty. You claim that the rationale I laid out was foolish. But not dodged every showdown, call down, bad man baddup on that challenge.
Furthermore, why all of a sudden this interest in philosophy.
Since you guys are begging for more education. Let me tell you:
The real reason for my use of the term Hermes is because it is the derivative of the greek word “hermenia” which means interpretation, and from which we get our english word “hermeneutics”. Hermeneutics is the art and science of proper interpretation of language. it is used in law, theology, philosophy, sociology etc.
If nocotec was a student of philosophy as he claims, he would have understood the play on the word and its relationship to the discipline of Hermeneutics. But as I said–nocotec is an accomplished “cut and paste” googler. the problem with that is when you cut and paste, many times you have no understand of what you are copying.
Rahtid
So NoCotec score a point against Hermes.
So dat mean we can go back in a debate.
Right NoCotec (smile).
Anyway Hermes, asking for your opinion/viewpoint.
Reposted from above:
I have this question for you.
From the interview, and based on what others have told me, what do you think is the motive of those persons who were carrying out the due diligence, by seeming to stretch out the damn thing by asking for info one at a time, instead of all at once?
Olint-for-life
Olint-for-life,
Come to think of I don’t think he has any money for me either.
The testosterone level is running high on this thread. We need some more Jamwoman on this site. Can we agree that we will not use the woods B****, D***, etc.
DaveSin
I apologise to you and all readers/participants in this blog.
I am gonna wash out my mouth with soap.
But please to ask other guilty persons to do it too, because other than for Hermes and meself, all a unoo mek some disrectful people get weh wid too much.
Olint-for-life
For a more comprehensive look at Hermes (rather than nocotec edited cut & paste) see below:
Source: Walter Burkert, 1985. Greek Religion (Harvard University Press)
Hermes is a messenger from the gods to humans, sharing this role with Iris. An interpreter who bridges the boundaries with strangers is a hermeneus. Hermes gives us our word “hermeneutics” for the art of interpreting hidden meaning. In Greek a lucky find was a hermaion. Hermes delivered messages from Olympus to the mortal world. He wears shoes with wings on them and uses them to fly freely between the mortal and immortal world. Hermes, younger than Apollo, was the youngest of the Olympian gods.
Along with escorting the dead, Hermes often helped travelers have a safe and easy journey. Many Greeks would sacrifice to Hermes before any trip.
In the fully-developed Olympian pantheon, Hermes was the son of Zeus and the Pleiade Maia, a daughter of the Titan Atlas. In the Roman adaptation of the Greek religion (see interpretatio romana), Hermes was identified with the Roman god Mercury, who, though inherited from the Etruscans, developed many similar characteristics, such as being the patron of commerce.
Olint for Life a little inside info. I have it on good sources that the due diligence is being carried out by Wild-E- Cayotee. Now I hear the reason it is taking so long is that he cant catch that dam Road Runner. So if you, Hermes (make sure he carries his nine points why he invested) the great diplomat and Super Dave can catch the Road Runner it will allow Wild-E to complete his tasks.
Hermes:
Bwoy you are going to need those wings to escort the dead Olint investors to the promise land. Will you have enough space for the Cash Plus dead also?
Anyway, Olint-For-Life
The issue of the due diligence is a difficult one.
And I have to wait on more information before I comment.
But I will say this. It seems to me that one issue that could be going on, is the process of wiring money to offshore banks in offshore jurisdictions. If Oanda wired the money to an offshore bank, then the process involves intermediary banks, and each intermediary bank will meet their compliance requirements before the funds settle at the offshore destination. That process could add some time to the equation.
I cant say if this is going on for sure but this is theoretically one possible thing that could be adding days to the supposed recent wire transfer from Oanda.
The problem is that Dave said on Monday, that it is the brokers that are holding up the money. So unless we do not know the name of that broker, that statement, if it implies Oanda is problematic.
OFL, you can say anything you want but do it in a clever way. BTW, it has a bigger punch when you do! Your earlier comment took me off guard…unlike you I think. You should have been around when we had those famous C+ debate on the C+ site. We did call each other idiots, etc., but it was done with class.
Most of the detractors on this site came from that site and trust mi, we love a good debate…if fact we strive on it!
Guys
Dem say in any group situation, you always have one person that behaves so silly, that dem keep distracting everybody else.
Dat person is good fi one job and one job only, and dat is to provide “Comic Relief”. Jason, these blogs just can’t do widout yuh and yuh comic relief.
However, a Sirach you could neva be.
Olint-for-life
Hermes there is no such concept in real investing as investing what you can afford to lose. Investing involves risk but one invests to win not to lose. Discretionary income is not the same as money you can afford to lose investing. A Las Vegas analogy is not appropriate. Money spent and lost in casinos is often referred to by casino goers as entertainment money. If an investment scheme or its followers start using the term invest only what you can afford lose, potential investors are best advised to move on and look for the next idea.
A consistent fallacy in your arguments is to use analogies that are often in of themselves factual but not appropriate to Olint. For example sophisticated and accredited investors meeting with DS before investing may be accurate but not relevant to Olint’s actual operations. Olint is not a hedge fund… it is more analogous to an open end Mutual Fund. Does Olint even enforce any investment limits in Olint TCI? In other words anyone can invest as little as a few hundred dollars and no level of investable assets or investment sophistication is requested or required before investing.
Thus the fact that such people may have met with DS before investing is not relevant as Olint is not a hedge fund like company. The majority of its investors are not accredited investors. The fact that some hedge funds seek to avoid regulation is not relevant to Olint; more relevant is that Olint operates like an open end Mutual Fund accepting small sums from anyone. Open end Mutual Funds operating like that are regulated in almost all jurisdictions.
C’mon Hermes… there you go again… LOL… your name is Hermes and I recollected the Hermes from Greek mythology and did my research to post the attributes of Hermes… if your name was Tom I would not have done any research, obviously I must have been familiar with the name Hermes… now you wish to use an analogy to explain the derivative of your Hermes 🙂 Remember you chose the name as I chose mine. 🙂
By the way no one loves an intellectual debate like me… Many will know that I used to post a lot on another site but as I have said publicly I have not been able to post as often I used to do because of my summer related commitments… Sometimes I am too busy to post regularly. Further most people particularly in these times come to the site for pertinent information on whether payments have resumed, are likely to resume and if so when, and whether their money is safe or not. For the most part I try to stick to those issues. I can debate and debunk your arguments whenever I have the time or inclination but much of your points are not really relevant in these times.
Thanks Hermes
I will wait till you hear more.
Olint-for-life
Hermes,
I am willing to continue addressing you as the interpreter of the gods and not the god of animal husbandry or teefery as Nocotec was so rudely trying to suggest. LOL
As for your nine point debate I see no point in trying to debate you as I am not very good at those things. In fact i neva did even finish college(though I did do particularly well in intro to Greek Mythology).
One area in which I am sure Jason, Nocotec and I have you and your congregation beat is the common sense department. Being a trader myself there is one key litmus test for Olint and Super Dave. If he was such a good trader (making 10%/month) why the hell would he need new “investors” in his scheme? If I were super Dave I would have long since paid back ALL my “investors” years ago and have been trading MY OWN MONEY keeping 100% of your profits. There is noooooo way in hell I would be paying out 10% a month (over 200% annually when compounded) to “investors” for their money. If he’s paying out that much how much is he making.. 300%…400%…500% annually? Daaamn Super Dave if you dat good at trading den what de hell you need new “investors” for. Why you burdening yourself with having to wire money to all of these annoying Jamaicans like Olint-for-life every month.
Hermes
Please allow me to give a response to Johny P.
Olint-for-life
I remember being accused on the ‘buttuh’ blog of spreading fear uncertainty and doubt because I had the nerve to call for transparency into OLINTs operations.
It now seems as if it was David Smith et al spreading stories about wires on the way. What were they doing this if not to buy time? What were they buying time for?
Last week David Smith claims he don’t know why his funds were being held up. This week they can’t tell whether or not a simple wire was sent?
These are the actions a this financial whiz? Puhlease!
Olint-for-life,
I am off to Target to pick up a few things b4 they close. Let me know if dat money from Super Dave shows up while I am away.
Johny P
I came to know David some years ago. I was introduced to him by a friend of mine who I have no reason to doubt over given my close association with him over the years. At first meeting, I admired David’s cool personality, and marvelled to myself, how under God’s bright blue skies, this non-assuming looking man can do what I heard he has been doing? Can it be for real? So I researched online, and thank God for the internet, I was baptised into the Forex Market. It is after realising the potential of this market, and was given testimonials of his success that I decided to take the plunge. My only regret was that I never met him 2 years earlier.
One of the persons that David admired, was the late Joan Duncan who started JMMB. Now if you research how that lady started that company, you will know how she got a fight, especially from the banks. Her dream was to allow the small man like me, you and others, the opportunity of participating in the primary money market, which was cornered by the large banks, companies, and rich individuals. In this market, you could only participate if you have large funds to invest in government papers (ie as a Primary Dealer) where the interest rate was much higher than what the commercial banks were giving on certificate of deposits. She developed revelotionary money market instruments where small investors money was pooled and together became large funds which she used to invest. The rates given to them was much closer to the government paper rates, as she took a small spread for her effort. The rest is history. Look where JMMB is today.
After David learned to trade currencies well, his close friends and families encouraged him to go on his own and do it privately. And the news got around. He was never selfish and accepted new clients by reference only, no solicitation, and I am thankful for that. Why? I came in to the club when membership reached in the 200+, yes from that long. Suppose he had stopped taking new clients before that? I would never be in. But then, could I be selfish and want him to stop after I got in. No!, So the rest is history as to why so many perons are in this club now, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
David has a big and a sincere heart. Like joan Duncan, he wanted to give people the opportunity of “Earning Real Rewards”. So he opened his heart to everyone, including the Judases of this world. Man I am so angry.
His resolve was truly tested in 2006 when the FSC raided his establishment, with the police wanting to treat the man like a common criminal. Pity you all don’t know that a number of persons came to his assistance on that day that the police themselves started to feel intimidated (Fi Real). Anyway, club members got jittery, and asked for their money. They got it and over 75% of the fund to date was paid out. In otherwords, people easily got the full balance on their account (principal and gain), and were under no pressure/obligation to stay.
You all know the history, how he rebounded and his club became stronger than ever. He could have stooped then, but he didn’t. Why? Us faithful club members rallied around him and gave him the well needed support that he needed. He drew strength from that and continued trading for us, and all those other persons who had taken their money and carried it back, plus more persons who came after that. To this date, us faithful club members who stayed with him at that time are upset that he took back those persons who abandon him back then.
But remember what I told you anout the late Joan Duncan. It was his desire to help poor people who never had the opportunity before to “Earn Real Rewards”.
Right now, with all that is going on with people not getting their money, people are feeling hopeless, and the naysayers are having a field day, which does not help matters much.
Selfishly, I wish that those damn bad-minded club members take all their money at the earliest opportinuty they get and leave the club alone.
We the older ones know only too well that we have been there before and we will continue to support him, as unbelievable and ridiculous as it may sound.
FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU.
FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME.
Olint-for-life
Well said Olint-for-life.
DS and Olint make an easy target right now but I dont know that we are qualified to cast aspersions on the man’s integrity.
Should Olint go under, I lose 7 figures. Funny thing is, I am still not worried. I have lost big money in business before and never enjoyed the ride anywhere as with OLINT over the past three years.
Let us go out on a limb and assume that DS had a couple bad months trading or even worst trusted the Martinez’ to trade his members money………he will rebound in spades. SImple.
Right now understand this, watch and see. If we are all disappointed, it will not have been the first and wont be the last. Watch and see this all wash away as soon as people start getting money.
For them to post updated wire instructions on their website today is a real slap in the face.
No payments, no payment schedules, no returns for May, but go ahead and send us more money.
Samson, David Smith cast aspersions on his own integrity by his contradictory stories, (going all the way back to January), failed promises, and missed deadlines, and now the arrogant silence out of OLINT.
His is doing a fine job destroying his own integrity all by himself, he does not need any help from the rest of us.
I feel a leminotep type vision coming through. As soon as I have the fullness I will post it.
Selah
Olint for life.
Many people have similar stories to you. They are the ones who stood by Ds during the raids. They genuinely believed in the guy. Every one mentions his cool and down to earth character and his seemingly good heart.
But these are the most dangerous personalities out there. People are taken in by him, by his so called charm. But people with that type of personality when they turn to the ‘dark side’ they have no real feelings for others, they do not care about the suffering of others. On the outside they may appear caring but on the inside it is a cold heart.
Many people are going to lose alot of money with this guy, he knows he doesn’t have any money to fullfill his obligations, yet he continues to lie, he knew he was not making the returns he alleged every month but he continued to put out false statements.
He knew that many of his friends and people who he earned there trust were acting as piggy backers accepting money on his behalf but he still lied.
Now many of these piggy backers are waiting for there money, some are being threatened, people’s families are being threatened and your good hearted friend David seems to not give a dam. As I said by all appearances a good person, but evil to the core.
LOL, now they are claiming the funds will reach by Tuesday. LOL. They must really think we are stupid. But then again we did give him our hard earned money!
Funds should reach January, then we heard no we really meant February, come February we heard, no we really meant the end of May, come the end of May we heard, no we really meant June 26th, then it was July 2nd, then it was July 11th, now July 15th.
These are classic delaying tactics people. If at the end of May they had told us we wouldn’t get paid till July 15th, then they knew the sh*t would hit the fan right there and then. Instead telling us each time, its just a few days gets them to July 15th without any consequences.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he is in Dubai, Brazil or Indonesia by now or is well on the way to some such locale.
After the infamous interview my confidence faltered, and his silence today is just the icing on the cake.
Olint-for-life,
Back from shopping. Did that wire show up yet? Well some of your questions about this “non-assuming looking man…cool personality” “Can it be for real?” have been answered. NO it cannot be for real. Olint’s six months of non-payment and the insult now shown to “club members” by the excuses and complete lack of information makes it abudantly clear that he was not for real.
Your post is heavy on details about Joan Duncan and her successes in starting JMMB. God bless her as a woman and as a Jamaican for what she had created. Do not insult her legacy by trying to somehow claim Olint is somehow similar to JMMB. JMMB is a business built on sound business principles which did not involve offering clients some get rich quick scheme of 200% returns on their money in a year. I am sure her company like most successful companies was built by hard work. How much hard work could there really be in placing 100k w/ Super Dave in January and then pocketing over 200k in gains at the end of the year.
Again you throw out numbers like 75% was paid back and that you got involved when the club only had 200+ members but how can those figures be independently verfied with Oliint’s lack of transparency. As for the people coming to his defence and intimidating the police that does not surprise me as no one in Jamaica has any respect for authority these days. The likkle police bwoy dem not sophisticated and could not appreciated Super Dave in his greatness.
I have never met Super Dave so I cannot testify as to how “big and a sincere heart” he has. I can however judge him based on the smorgasbord of facts staring you Olinters right in the face. He has not paid since January. His stories are contradictory as to where the money is, his dealings with Itrade FX, and when people will get paid. Yet you are willing to continue to support him despite his dodgy behavior and perhaps outright lies to you and others who gave him YOUR hard earned money.
At this point he has no other tactic to use but delays. Considering the volume of funds he is moving around, realistically investors won’t see that cash for another month if at all.
This can end a couple of ways:
1) Investors get paid and he scales down the business to a manageable level.
2) He pays out all investors and shuts down the club altogether and he disappears into the sunset.
3) Investors get no money and he either falls off the face of the earth voluntarily or involuntarily.
I’m sure it was great while it lasted but his business model was doomed. Everyone wants to believe in him including me. Maybe he is what he claims to be and is really getting shafted…who knows. There are a lot of missing pieces. At this point investors just have to lock their eyes and think of plan B.
JMMB was built on the premise that they could obtain a license.
Joan Duncan went to school at Glenmuir with the one who loves to talk about “World Class”
The blog definately shows how perception distorts reality an dalso how little many people actually know about Jamaica
Read Sirach BACCRA blogs again…wink
No comments in hours.. seems hope is basically lost….
As much as it pains me to say this, on Monday I think it is time for those who are serious about getting either a PORTION of their ‘investment’ back, or finding out the truth to start to seek legal advice on how to proceed.
The time for vague reasons, unclear and inconsistent communications (some could say flat out lies), empty promises (i.e. payment schedules that were basically smoke and mirrors), and all that other crap that club members have been dealing with has passed. It makes NO sense to sit and cling to faith and hope as a crutch, or the fact that ‘he is a christian’ as reason to believe he wont and hasnt conned thousands out of millions. (there have been MANY ponzis and other scams which have been founded in abd BY church members DEEPLY entrenched in the church).
Time to go to the next step…seek legal advice and proceed as necessary. If Mr. Smith has the money then he has nothing to be worried about. Simply provide the verifiable proof and most will be well… and NO HIS WORD DOES NOT COUNT AS VERIFIABLE PROOF!
Lawd mi hope mi get back mi money! 😉
Jonny P:
Yu copying mi writing style and arguments mon.
Bwoy, I went to bed and wake up and bam, mi si yu post and mi think, wait, mi mussa write that in mi sleep and then mi check, mi see Jonny P name.
I am therefore issuing you a cease-and-desist order. Get your own writing style/arguments…otherwise I will have to ask investor-for-life to ban you to the other site. 🙂
I have been reading this blog for a while, and all i see is condemnation, well our God is a good God and his mercy endureth for ever.
I always knew this would have happened, the money problems, as it was always what is the pay out for the month, and how much money will be paid etc etc . We were serving two Gods, when we can only serve one and hate the other. So this is a wake up call, becuase our God is just and merciful, all will be well. All has been provided and the evil one will have to back away. People have faith in God not in Man, and all persons who smiling, and gloating over he demise of others your days are numbered as well beware your days are nearer than you think. The god you serve is a liar and a thief and will not succeed. So have faith all not in david but in God who gives and takes away. but remember he is merciful.
Now the deluded on the “other” blog are back to claiming that the “banks” are fighting Olint by holding up the funds.
What utter rubbish. Why cant Olint simply pay investors individually from overseas? Why do the funds need to come to Jamaica? Besides didn’t Olint send out an email I think in December of 07 telling customers not to worry in the event they lost their case with the local banks because Olint had made alternative arrangements to deal with that contingency? Well seven months on shouldn’t those contingencies be put into place about now?
Are we to believe that he is that clueless that after keeping us waiting for six months, he now has the elusive funds in his possession and can’t manage the logistics to begin paying customers and STOP the aspersions that are being made about him?
LOL Davesin. As much as I love de excitement and bangarang over at the other site they will not allow me to post there. One of my post from about 10 days ago is still “waiting on moderation”. Kinda like how they r waitin on dat wire.
Well CJ he has sued the banks b4. Why doesn’t he just take them NCB to court for “refusing to accept his wire”. What will they think of next? “The dog ate my Olint money” perhaps.
LOL
http://www.nasaa.org/investor_education/nasaa_fraud_center/436.cfm
Most of the delusional on the other website who are blaming the banks. Most of these piggy back clubs have bank accounts OUTSIDE of Jamaica. If David Smith had the money in a bank in the Turks he could simply wire the money directly from there to the PIGS accounts. Many have set up companies in the US and Panama.
Most of these PIGS owe in excess of millions of dollars. For eg I am sure LewFam has accounts outside of Jamaica so why isn’t super dave wiring them the money directly?
Fact is Dave has no money to make payments on a large scale. Some individuals are in fact getting paid (small amounts) as we speak but those are only a small fraction who have ‘connections’
Olint-for-life your testimonial has only convinced me more that DS is running a ponzi. It along with what Hermes has said about accredited and sophisticated type investors meeting with him and then investing; investing without demanding that he produce regular periodic audited financial statements. If you were among the first 200 or so, I can see why you would be so loyal to DS. The first 200 or so in C+ who knew CH and or his doctor pal also cleaned up too if they took profits. It is the peons that came later that got shafted.
Here is something to ponder. Do you thing that there is any good conman that presents himself as a thief? Good con artists have to be smooth and present themselves as honest and genuine or no one will “invest” with them. Consider this. Do you realize that serial killers that kill many young women or boys (like Ted Bundy), are all very smooth operators? If they were not they could not lure women into their cars. Do you believe that a beautiful young woman would get into a car with a fat ugly dude with half his teeth missing and the other half rotten… driving a beat up clunker… whose coarse non smooth approach is… Yow gal… Come yah… Mi got a big wood fi yuh.
The good looking well dressed dude driving the late model European sedan with the smooth approach has a million times better shot at luring her into the car. Someone who can lure the “sophisticated investor” as Hermes describes into a scheme that produces no audited statements has the traits of a conman.
Remember how I described that just this week I had received a subpoena for a client’s records? Believe me when I say I was not surprised. I went to my partner and said remember how several years back I talked about this guy? I have met and spoken to thousands of faceless clients over the years; the vast majority of whom I have no recollection. This guy stood out for me. I had no proof or indication that he was involved in anything illegal. However while it may not be impossible to con me, it is awfully hard. The reason I told my office not to conduct any transaction with this guy without seeking approval was he was just way too smooth. Tried to act like he and I were long time friends… charmed all the women in the office… tried to be overly nice… tried to chat you up with friendly jovial chat and then when he thought you were buttered up, ask you to complete a task for him. Unlike most people that behavior just raises a red flag for me and I raise my guard. I could cite a several more examples like him…
The question is, how is possible that such a wide spectrum of investors can send money in the hundreds of millions to people who gave them little more to go on than a promise? Those long timers on other blogs will know what my name means and that I was the first to start calling these “clubs” cult like entities. Did you notice how the # 4 blog has become like a cult prayer meeting?
Did anyone ever realize why as Jamaicans we receive such lousy and poor customer service from Government offices and businesses? It is because we think they are doing us a favor and we should be grateful. So they treat us any old shabby way. They are not grateful to us for bringing them business and thus paying their salaries. We act as if we should be grateful to them that they took time out to take our money. Look at Olint and the other UFO investors on the # 4 blog, this one and others… They say, please pray for DS et.al. They say DS is trying to help us… OFL says Joan Duncan started something to help poor people. She started a business modeled after Mutual Funds that have existed in the US for many decades with the purpose of helping herself by providing a service to clients.
DS started a business to help himself. And that he has, with his private jet, cars houses etc. He has the nerve to come on national radio and ask his clients and Jamaica people to pray for him. HE needs to pray for all the people whose money he has taken and gotten rich from and who have been waiting for their money from January. See how as Jcans we got it backward? We are supposed to be grateful to the guy who took our money, got rich off it and who will not or cannot give it back to us when we want it. What kind of upside down world do we exist in?
I am a season-pass holder of the #4 bus….hoping to upgrade to a lifetime member. I will look in on this (the for) bus from time to time as I appreciate the news that is sometimes available here.
What I don’t understand however, is the slant of the news. It seems as if this bus is bent (should I say hell-bent?) on celebrating and gloating in the encashment delays. I can understand if you are skeptics…some skepticism is healthy. ..but I can’t help but get the feeling that you will be crushed if the $ flows and O proves beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a legitimate and profitable trading operation.
Please suspend attempts to sully the reputation of DS. Time will tell which bus is on course…
Here is my response to nocotec. I decided to change the style from my response in ALL CAPS (since some have indicated trouble reading that), to his response labeled NOCOTEC, and my response labeled HERMES:
But you have to follow closely, so you dont get confused as to when I responding to nocotec
———————————————————————
nocotec, on July 11th, 2008 at 7:32 pm Said:
NOCOTEC:
Hermes there is no such concept in real investing as investing what you can afford to lose. Investing involves risk but one invests to win not to lose.
HERMES:
Ok, here is it is the big “finance knowledge” challenge. nocotec, you have laid down a direct knowledge battle and so either you are correct on this or I am correct on this. on this point, there is no miiddle ground. Either “there is or is not a concept of “investing what you can afford to lose”.
Nocotec, I am sorry but you take the bait and you dead now. Here goes:
THE NFA EXAMPLE:
On page 20 of their pamphlet called “security futures”, the “nfa” had this to say about the “concept of investing what you can afford to lose.”
[ “futures trading in common stocks or any other type of futures trading is not appropriate for all individuals. THE ONLY FUNDS THAT SHOULD EVER BE USED TO SPECULATE IN STOCK FUTURES, OR ANY TYPE OF SPECULATIVE INVESTMENT, ARE FUNDS THAT REPRESENT RISK CAPITAL -.I.E. FUNDS THAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE WITHOUT ADVERSELY AFFECTING YOUR FINANCIAL HEALTH. Individuals should not risk any funds that they cannot afford to lose, such as retirement savings, medical & other emergency funds, funds set aside for purposes such as education or home ownership, proceeds from student loans or mortgages, or funds required to meet living expenses.” ]
nfa.futures.org/investor/security_futures/security_futures.pdf
see page 20
———————————————-
THE CFTC EXAMPLE:
The cftc had this to say about the concept of investing “what you can afford to lose”
[ “before you trade: know the basics of futures trading
CONSIDER YOUR FINANCIAL EXPERIENCE, GOALS, AND FINANCIAL RESOURCES AND KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR INITIAL PAYMENT. ]
cftc.gov/customerprotection/fraudawarenessandprevention/index.htm
—————————————————————-
THE SEC FILING EXAMPLE:
Next, this is taken from an SEC filing on the SEC website for a company called “global risk management & investigative solutions”. It is a part of its disclosure (prospectus) to the public and states the following regarding the “concept of investing only what you can afford to lose”.
[ “ Risk Factors
……..our auditor’s report reflects the fact that the ability of the company to continue as a going concern is dependent upon its ability to obtain additional sources of capital or borrowings and, ultimately the achievement of significant operating revenues. If we are unable to continue as a going concern, you will lose your investment. YOU SHOULD NOT INVEST IN THIS OFFERING UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE YOUR ENTIRE INVESTMENT.” ]
/sec.edgar-online.com/2008/05/16/0001077048-08-000104/section8.asp
——————————-
THE FX TRADING EXAMPLE
Next, this is taken from the website for a trading company called “FX Solutions”. It as a part of its disclosure to the public sates the following regarding the “concept of investing only what you can afford to lose”.
[“Risk Warning:
BEFORE DECIDING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FOREX MARKET, YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY CONSIDER YOUR INVESTMENT OBJECTIVES, LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE AND RISK APPETITE. MOST IMPORTANTLY, DO NOT INVEST MONEY YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE.
fxsolutions.com/company-info/policy-statements.asp?tab=risk
—————————————————–
So let me see, according to nocotec, in finance or investing, there is no such thing as the concept of “investing what you can afford to lose”. Investforlife, following nocotec advice, jumps on the bandwagon in its op-ed piece stating that “investing what you can afford to lose is a false notion”.
But the NFA, CFTC, The SEC AND OTHERS, all clearly point to the concept of “investing what you can afford to lose”. I will go with these guys anytime rather nococtec and his own private concoctions. it seems nocotec lives in a world where he gets use how own private definitions and does not bother to educate himself on the facts. The same thing occurred with his private definition of sophisticated/accredited investor
See this is the problem, you guys are so wild-eye fanatical, close-minded, and ferocious in your desire to call doom on olint and to call olint investors blind, that you will say things in complete ignorance and call it fact, when you dont really know for sure.
Well, since you guys are so ignorant, let me acquaint with the concept a little more, it’s also referred to as “risk capital or speculative capital.”
To keep it simple, let me use the following from an online dictionary source and just put the proverbial “nail in the coffin” so to speak:
[ “Speculative Capital: the funds earmarked by an investor for the sole purpose of speculation. This capital is often associated with extreme volatility and a high probability of loss. Most speculators have short-term investment horizons and often use high degrees of leverage in their efforts to obtain profits. Given the above average probability of loss in speculative trading, it is critically important to exercise good risk management and not become emotionally attached to a certain trade. It is not uncommon to see novice investors hold onto a position until it loses nearly all of its value. Given their limited experience, rookie traders should regard all their tradable capital as speculative capital. In other words, they should only invest whatever amount of money they can afford to lose without their way of life being materially affected.”]
investopedia.com/terms/s/speculativecapital.asp
[“RISK CAPITAL: the money that a person allocates to investing in high-risk securities. Basically, this is capital that you can lose without having to sleep on the streets. Investors who speculate in options or futures contracts should only use risk capital.”]
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/riskcapital.asp ]
Now, I fully expect that investforlife will remove that statement in its op-ed piece. And that nocotec will issue an apology for being ignorant about this and for advocating falsehoods in the name of being enlightened.
Let it be a lesson to you all but especially investforlife. Don’t take a hard line on something that you don’t know for sure or you will be embarrassed, especially with me around. Uno betta check with me next time before uno start issuing oped pieces, so that you can make sure you are correct on the finance and the logic, because at this stage, nocotec lead you astray and let you down
———————————————————————————————————-
NOCOTEC:
Discretionary income is not the same as money you can afford to lose investing. A Las Vegas analogy is not appropriate. Money spent and lost in casinos is often referred to by casino goers as entertainment money. If an investment scheme or its followers start using the term invest only what you can afford lose, potential investors are best advised to move on and look for the next idea.
HERMES:
But it is also considered “money they can afford to lose” and in reality it is money they can afford to lose. Common man, use some common sense here. Again, you don’t know how to reason analogically. Nobody didn’t teach you that when you were teaching your professor’s classes?
This is the problem i find with many so-called “financial people”. They might be good with numbers & calculations but they are horrible at logical reasoning and critical thinking. They have a one-track mind and cant see things at a high-enough level. Many of them are “technicians” and not “engineers” in that technicians can apply formulas but engineers know the reason and the logic for the formula. I have a term for them: “crass uncouth financial barbarians.” They have little understanding of how the world works and often think they know more than they really do. They know how to crunch numbers but ask them about business, law, philosophy, geopolitics, theology, linguistics….in short anything outside number crunching that could help them to understand the world better and they stumble.
——————————————————————————————————————————
NOCOTEC:
A consistent fallacy in your arguments is to use analogies that are often in of themselves factual but not appropriate to Olint.
HERMES:
Nocotec, let me educate you on how argumentation and logical reasoning works. There is a little thing called analogical reasoning or parallel reasoning.
In formal logic, there is a principle called the “consistency principle”, which means that every similar case must be treated the same unless there is a relevant difference.
And there is another thing called “the principle principle”. In every argument there is a principle being advocated or defended. Analogies are used to illustrate a principle.
The job of a good debater is to find a principle that the opponent believes in and shows how it applies in the current argument
What I was trying to illustrate was not that “olint is a hedge fund” but that “avoidance of government regulation is not always indicative of fraud or wrongdoing. The point is: ” if the principle of avoiding government regulation by an investment entity is always wrong, then if you can find an investment entity that avoids government regulation then it must be wrong in that case too.” So when i point to the fact that hedge funds routinely avoid government regulation, what I have just demonstrated is that “avoidance of government regulation is not always wrong”. The principle holds true even more when the both entities have similar reasons for avoiding government regulation. You and others ignorantly spewed the untruth on this blog that any investment entity that avoids regulation is a fraud because they are hiding something. So when i introduce the hedge fund example, everyone scattered and ran back to their caves, until now…where you prove why it was wise for everyone else to run on that point. But you guys are so intellectually biased that you rarely if ever admit to a point when you have been proven wrong. The true test of manhood is knowing how to admit being wrong. You guys have failed that test miserably.
————————————————————————————————————————
NOCOTEC:
For example sophisticated and accredited investors meeting with DS before investing may be accurate but not relevant to Olint’s actual operations.
HERMES:
Ok, so now, you concede that sophisticated and accredited investors met with david and have backed off your previous stance that nobody could ever be sophisticated/accredited if they met with david & invested. It is amazing that you took such a definite hard line on this point previously and now you are retreating. But that’s good. I don’t want to rub it in your nose but you have to take pause and really consider if my other points have merit because at the time when they seemed so wrong to you, eventually you may have to come around and admit them to be correct.
How is meeting with david to do due diligence not relevant to olint’s operations? What are you saying, man! You are not making any sense here. One key pivot in any investment decision is information. If meeting with david provided them with critical information, why is that not relevant?
I don’t get it. Are you trying to say that because olint is not a hedge fund but more analogous to a mutual fund, that therefore it is unnecessary to meet with the fund manager/principal? Are you kidding, many mutual funds pride themselves on the fact that they send teams of analysts to go to the site of a company, to meet with mgmt, review operations, before they invest, regardless of what the audited books, annual report and sec filings say. For example, both Janus funds and Oppeinhemier funds pride themselves on using “a research-oriented, hands-on investment approach to picking great companies.”
——————————————————————————————————————–
NOCOTEC:
Olint is not a hedge fund… it is more analogous to an open end Mutual Fund. Does Olint even enforce any investment limits in Olint TCI? In other words anyone can invest as little as a few hundred dollars and no level of investable assets or investment sophistication is requested or required before investing. Thus the fact that such people may have met with DS before investing is not relevant as Olint is not a hedge fund like company. The majority of its investors are not accredited investors. The fact that some hedge funds seek to avoid regulation is not relevant to Olint; more relevant is that Olint operates like an open end Mutual Fund accepting small sums from anyone. Open end Mutual Funds operating like that are regulated in almost all jurisdictions.
HERMES:
Nocotec, you cant be serious. Here you state that i cant compare olint to a hedge fund because it is not a hedge fund. Then in the same breath you turn around and compare olint to an open end mutual fund, when olint is not an open-ended mutual fund. This is either intellectual hypocrisy at best or you are incapable of seeing how contradictory your reasoning is. As i said before your reasoning skills are mediocre and you don’t even know when you are making these mistakes. That’s the problem with you and Jason. You guys don’t know what you don’t know. So you have just invalidated your own analogy by telling me that i can’t use an analogy when something is not exactly something else.
Ok, so let me educate you.
When using analogies, you try to find what’s known as comparable particulars. Comparable particulars are points that are similar to both but only those points and not necessarily anything else. If i say, you are a lion. It means that there is one or two things about a lion (i.e. bold, intimidating etc) that i am identifying as characteristic of you. It does not mean that you are a lion in every single way. And it certainly does not mean that you are literally a lion. If i say you are like lion, the same goes. There are some ways in which you are like a lion but not in every way. When you draw an analogy, what you have to be skilled at is identifying the comparable particulars, which you intend to use to illustrate the characteristic or the principle.
So when i compare olint to a hedge fund. I am not necessarily saying that olint is a hedge fund, but what I am saying is that in some ways, it has the characteristics of a hedge fund. The fact i can find comparable characteristics between olint and a hedge fund does not mean that i am saying that olint is a hedge fund … and the fact that olint does not meet every single definition orcriteria of a hedge fund, does not invalidate the comparable particulars that illustrates the particular points of comparison. I hope this is not too intellectual for you and you can follow along and not get lost here.
By telling me that i cannot compare olint to a hedge fund means that you are telling me that there exists no comparable particulars between the two. Now the more comparable particulars you can find in analogy, the stronger the analogy becomes.
So lets see:
Hedge funds:
1) Investors invest with them for the expectation of high returns
2) High net worth & accredited investors play in them
3) They, in many cases, incorporate & operate offshore
4) They involve some complexity in terms of their underlying strategy to make profits
5) They generally avoid government regulation and public disclosure
6) They want to keep private and resist attempts to pierce their secretive profile
7) They are high risk investments
8) They don’t publicly solicit investors
9) They require some sophistication to understand the risks involved
10) they tend to consistently outperform other traditional asset classes
11) They seek absolute returns
I would say that all the above also applies to olint.
Now olint has not called itself a hedge fund but a private investment club. In the US, the differences between a hedge fund and a private investment club are little.
There are different types of hedge funds; you have:
·Global macro
·Event driven,
·Relative value (arbitrage),
·Managed futures
·Equity,
·Fixed income,
·Commodity,
·Currency
etc etc
Olint behaves most like a currency hedge fund.
Your analogy to an open end mutual fund (with its one and only comparable particular of “no investment limits”) does not even come close to having the strong comparable particulars as the comparison to a hedge fund. But whatever you think, you cannot say that olint cannot be compared to a hedge fund. By saying that, you either don’t understand analogical reasoning or you don’t understand hedge funds. In either case, you demonstrate a lack of understanding.
Furthermore, the technical definition of an open-end mutual fund is as follows:
[ “an open-ended mutual fund operated by an investment company raises money from shareholders and invests in a group of assets, in accordance with a stated set of objectives. Mutual funds raise money by selling shares of the fund to the public, much like any other type of company can sell stock in itself to the public. Mutual funds then take the money they receive from the sale of their shares (along with any money made from previous investments) and use it to purchase various investment vehicles, such as stocks, bonds and money market instruments. In return for the money they give to the fund when purchasing shares, shareholders receive an equity position in the fund and, in effect, in each of its underlying securities. For most mutual funds, shareholders are free to sell their shares at any time
investorwords.com/3173/mutual_fund.html ]
The fact that olint does not sell shares or create equity positions or invest in several different investment vehicles, means it has less in common with a mutual fund than a hedge fund.
But just fyi – there is no universally consistent definition of a hedge fund. Anybody who knows anything about hedge funds, can tell you that an entity can be lumped into the hedge fund category simply because it has some of the characteristics of most other hedge funds. Do you want to challenge me on this point, too.
One definition of a hedge fund is as follows:
[“While there is no legal definition for “hedge fund” under U.S. securities laws and regulations, typically they include any investment fund that, because of an exemption from certain regulation that otherwise apply to mutual funds, brokerage firms or investment advisors, can invest in more complex and risky investments than a public fund might. Hedge funds managed from other countries have similar relationships with their national regulators. Since a hedge fund’s investment activities are limited only by the contracts governing the particular fund, it can make greater use of complex investment strategies such as short selling, entering into futures, swaps and other derivative contracts and leverage”]
books.google.com/books?id=_Mz09XY9B0AC&printsec=frontcover&dq=U.S.+Regulation+of+Hedge+Funds&sig=V_JG-9ncO5BBl5whGHNYVaFQsrE#PPR13,M1
Another definition is
[“a hedge fund is a fund, usually used by wealthy individuals and institutions, which is allowed to use aggressive strategies that are unavailable to mutual funds, including selling short, leverage, program trading, swaps, arbitrage, and derivatives. Hedge funds are exempt from many of the rules and regulations governing other mutual funds, which allows them to accomplish aggressive investing goals”. It is an aggressively managed investment that uses advanced investment strategies such as leverage, long, short and derivative positions in both domestic and international markets with the goal of generating high returns (either in an absolute sense or over a specified market benchmark).
Legally, hedge funds are most often set up as private investment partnerships that are open to a limited number of investors and require a very large initial minimum investment. For the most part, hedge funds (unlike mutual funds) are unregulated because they cater to sophisticated investors. In the u.s., laws require that the majority of investors in the fund be accredited.
investopedia.com/terms/h/hedgefund.asp
BTW, there is no such thing as a currency mutual fund but there are currency hedge funds. You either don’t understand what a mutual fund is or again you don’t understand how to reason analogically.
I continue to finish my response to your response in next post
nocotec
By chance, is the conman you refered to, go by the initials RC ?
Only ask cause I was my bank records were also recently the subject of a subpoena because of an association wih the same RC.
NoCotec
Your reasoning and conclusion is so flawed, that you need to wheel and come again.
All of you bar none have been saying that Olint needs to be transparent, need to produce audited accounts, need to submit themselves to regulation, because only then can you believe that everything with them is legit. If not O must be a Ponzi scheme and it will fail.
NoCotec, you explain to everyone how come IndyMac, a giant of a bank, who most likely met all your stipulated requirements, failed miserably and now 10,000 depositors funds are put at serious risk.
NoCotec, How come?
As for transparency, what do you know about the Diamond Market? Do you know that multi-million agreements and transactions take place over a simple hand shake between Diamond Dealers? There is no paper work, NONE, but all agreements are honored to the “letter”. I won’t even go into further detail with this. Since you love to google, then go google it and inform yourself.
Because if you and others hang the strength of your case on the lack of transparency being one of the key reasons why Olint is a Ponzi, then I can conclude that you guys are really limited in your knowledge, and know far less than you claim.
Olint-for-life
NOCOTEC:
A consistent fallacy in your arguments is to use analogies that are often in of themselves factual but not appropriate to Olint.
HERMES:
Nocotec, let me educate you on how argumentation and logical reasoning works. There is a little thing called analogical reasoning or parallel reasoning.
In formal logic, there is a principle called the “consistency principle”, which means that every similar case must be treated the same unless there is a relevant difference.
And there is another thing called “the principle principle”. In every argument there is a principle being advocated or defended. Analogies are used to illustrate a principle.
The job of a good debater is to find a principle that the opponent believes in and shows how it applies in the current argument
What I was trying to illustrate was not that “olint is a hedge fund” but that “avoidance of government regulation is not always indicative of fraud or wrongdoing. The point is: ” if the principle of avoiding government regulation by an investment entity is always wrong, then if you can find an investment entity that avoids government regulation then it must be wrong in that case too.” So when i point to the fact that hedge funds routinely avoid government regulation, what I have just demonstrated is that “avoidance of government regulation is not always wrong”. The principle holds true even more when the both entities have similar reasons for avoiding government regulation. You and others ignorantly spewed the untruth on this blog that any investment entity that avoids regulation is a fraud because they are hiding something. So when i introduce the hedge fund example, everyone scattered and ran back to their caves, until now…where you prove why it was wise for everyone else to run on that point. But you guys are so intellectually biased that you rarely if ever admit to a point when you have been proven wrong. The true test of manhood is knowing how to admit being wrong. You guys have failed that test miserably.
————————————————————————————————————————
NOCOTEC:
For example sophisticated and accredited investors meeting with DS before investing may be accurate but not relevant to Olint’s actual operations.
HERMES:
Ok, so now, you concede that sophisticated and accredited investors met with david and have backed off your previous stance that nobody could ever be sophisticated/accredited if they met with david & invested. It is amazing that you took such a definite hard line on this point previously and now you are retreating. But that’s good. I don’t want to rub it in your nose but you have to take pause and really consider if my other points have merit because at the time when they seemed so wrong to you, eventually you may have to come around and admit them to be correct.
How is meeting with david to do due diligence not relevant to olint’s operations? What are you saying, man! You are not making any sense here. One key pivot in any investment decision is information. If meeting with david provided them with critical information, why is that not relevant?
I don’t get it. Are you trying to say that because olint is not a hedge fund but more analogous to a mutual fund, that therefore it is unnecessary to meet with the fund manager/principal? Are you kidding, many mutual funds pride themselves on the fact that they send teams of analysts to go to the site of a company, to meet with mgmt, review operations, before they invest, regardless of what the audited books, annual report and sec filings say. For example, both Janus funds and Oppeinhemier funds pride themselves on using “a research-oriented, hands-on investment approach to picking great companies.”
——————————————————————————————————————–
NOCOTEC:
Olint is not a hedge fund… it is more analogous to an open end Mutual Fund. Does Olint even enforce any investment limits in Olint TCI? In other words anyone can invest as little as a few hundred dollars and no level of investable assets or investment sophistication is requested or required before investing. Thus the fact that such people may have met with DS before investing is not relevant as Olint is not a hedge fund like company. The majority of its investors are not accredited investors. The fact that some hedge funds seek to avoid regulation is not relevant to Olint; more relevant is that Olint operates like an open end Mutual Fund accepting small sums from anyone. Open end Mutual Funds operating like that are regulated in almost all jurisdictions.
HERMES:
Nocotec, you cant be serious. Here you state that i cant compare olint to a hedge fund because it is not a hedge fund. Then in the same breath you turn around and compare olint to an open end mutual fund, when olint is not an open-ended mutual fund. This is either intellectual hypocrisy at best or you are incapable of seeing how contradictory your reasoning is. As i said before your reasoning skills are mediocre and you don’t even know when you are making these mistakes. That’s the problem with you and Jason. You guys don’t know what you don’t know. So you have just invalidated your own analogy by telling me that i can’t use an analogy when something is not exactly something else.
Ok, so let me educate you.
When using analogies, you try to find what’s known as comparable particulars. Comparable particulars are points that are similar to both but only those points and not necessarily anything else. If i say, you are a lion. It means that there is one or two things about a lion (i.e. bold, intimidating etc) that i am identifying as characteristic of you. It does not mean that you are a lion in every single way. And it certainly does not mean that you are literally a lion. If i say you are like lion, the same goes. There are some ways in which you are like a lion but not in every way. When you draw an analogy, what you have to be skilled at is identifying the comparable particulars, which you intend to use to illustrate the characteristic or the principle.
So when i compare olint to a hedge fund. I am not necessarily saying that olint is a hedge fund, but what I am saying is that in some ways, it has the characteristics of a hedge fund. The fact i can find comparable characteristics between olint and a hedge fund does not mean that i am saying that olint is a hedge fund … and the fact that olint does not meet every single definition orcriteria of a hedge fund, does not invalidate the comparable particulars that illustrates the particular points of comparison. I hope this is not too intellectual for you and you can follow along and not get lost here.
By telling me that i cannot compare olint to a hedge fund means that you are telling me that there exists no comparable particulars between the two. Now the more comparable particulars you can find in analogy, the stronger the analogy becomes.
So lets see:
Hedge funds:
1) Investors invest with them for the expectation of high returns
2) High net worth & accredited investors play in them
3) They, in many cases, incorporate & operate offshore
4) They involve some complexity in terms of their underlying strategy to make profits
5) They generally avoid government regulation and public disclosure
6) They want to keep private and resist attempts to pierce their secretive profile
7) They are high risk investments
8) They don’t publicly solicit investors
9) They require some sophistication to understand the risks involved
10) they tend to consistently outperform other traditional asset classes
11) They seek absolute returns
I would say that all the above also applies to olint.
Now olint has not called itself a hedge fund but a private investment club. In the US, the differences between a hedge fund and a private investment club are little.
There are different types of hedge funds; you have:
·Global macro
·Event driven,
·Relative value (arbitrage),
·Managed futures
·Equity,
·Fixed income,
·Commodity,
·Currency
etc etc
Olint behaves most like a currency hedge fund.
Your analogy to an open end mutual fund (with its one and only comparable particular of “no investment limits”) does not even come close to having the strong comparable particulars as the comparison to a hedge fund. But whatever you think, you cannot say that olint cannot be compared to a hedge fund. By saying that, you either don’t understand analogical reasoning or you don’t understand hedge funds. In either case, you demonstrate a lack of understanding.
Furthermore, the technical definition of an open-end mutual fund is as follows:
[ “an open-ended mutual fund operated by an investment company raises money from shareholders and invests in a group of assets, in accordance with a stated set of objectives. Mutual funds raise money by selling shares of the fund to the public, much like any other type of company can sell stock in itself to the public. Mutual funds then take the money they receive from the sale of their shares (along with any money made from previous investments) and use it to purchase various investment vehicles, such as stocks, bonds and money market instruments. In return for the money they give to the fund when purchasing shares, shareholders receive an equity position in the fund and, in effect, in each of its underlying securities. For most mutual funds, shareholders are free to sell their shares at any time
investorwords.com/3173/mutual_fund.html ]
The fact that olint does not sell shares or create equity positions or invest in several different investment vehicles, means it has less in common with a mutual fund than a hedge fund.
But just fyi – there is no universally consistent definition of a hedge fund. Anybody who knows anything about hedge funds, can tell you that an entity can be lumped into the hedge fund category simply because it has some of the characteristics of most other hedge funds. Do you want to challenge me on this point, too.
One definition of a hedge fund is as follows:
[“While there is no legal definition for “hedge fund” under U.S. securities laws and regulations, typically they include any investment fund that, because of an exemption from certain regulation that otherwise apply to mutual funds, brokerage firms or investment advisors, can invest in more complex and risky investments than a public fund might. Hedge funds managed from other countries have similar relationships with their national regulators. Since a hedge fund’s investment activities are limited only by the contracts governing the particular fund, it can make greater use of complex investment strategies such as short selling, entering into futures, swaps and other derivative contracts and leverage”]
books.google.com/books?id=_Mz09XY9B0AC&printsec=frontcover&dq=U.S.+Regulation+of+Hedge+Funds&sig=V_JG-9ncO5BBl5whGHNYVaFQsrE#PPR13,M1
Another definition is
[“a hedge fund is a fund, usually used by wealthy individuals and institutions, which is allowed to use aggressive strategies that are unavailable to mutual funds, including selling short, leverage, program trading, swaps, arbitrage, and derivatives. Hedge funds are exempt from many of the rules and regulations governing other mutual funds, which allows them to accomplish aggressive investing goals”. It is an aggressively managed investment that uses advanced investment strategies such as leverage, long, short and derivative positions in both domestic and international markets with the goal of generating high returns (either in an absolute sense or over a specified market benchmark).
Legally, hedge funds are most often set up as private investment partnerships that are open to a limited number of investors and require a very large initial minimum investment. For the most part, hedge funds (unlike mutual funds) are unregulated because they cater to sophisticated investors. In the u.s., laws require that the majority of investors in the fund be accredited.
investopedia.com/terms/h/hedgefund.asp
BTW, there is no such thing as a currency mutual fund but there are currency hedge funds. You either don’t understand what a mutual fund is or again you don’t understand how to reason analogically.
I continue to finish my response to your response in next post
—————————————————————————————————————————
NOCOTEC:
C’mon Hermes… there you go again… LOL… your name is Hermes and I recollected the Hermes from Greek mythology and did my research to post the attributes of Hermes… if your name was Tom I would not have done any research, obviously I must have been familiar with the name Hermes… now you wish to use an analogy to explain the derivative of your Hermes Remember you chose the name as I chose mine.
HERMES:
Nocotec, you need to be honest here. You clearly saw on the other posts under “Olint Discussions” where Jason ignorantly referred to me as a “her” because he thought Hermes was a male name. I then proceeded to properly flog him with a quick lesson on the etymology of the word. That’s why he has been singing ever since then “hermes, chief interpreter of the gods”. Its like when somebody learn a new word them now use it every minute. But it is so shameful that jason dont feel no way say it show himself fool fool every time he draws attention to something that he was/is ignorant on. So given the posts on that, nobody is going to believe that you simply remembered the name hermes from high schoool memory and its connection to greek religion, simply from memory. Are you joking? That’s like when you claim to remember every single thing about microsoft from memory, when you clearly used google. You know what, nocotec, i am losing respect for you minute by minute. You are not being honest, and you take man fi idiot.
Secondly, it appears that you really are not as educated or knowledgeable on finance as i thought you were. You obviously have no exposure to derivatives and risk management because that’s the first thing them tell in that field, that is “the concept of investing what you can afford to lose” especially when it comes to the futures market.
And you must not have read enough prospectuses or SEC filings with its concomitant risk disclosures before. You mus t not be acquainted with the NFA and CFTC websites before.
I cant see how you claim to be a seasoned knowledgeable investor and never heard of “risk capital” before.
Thirdly, i lay down the gauntlet and challenge you to engage me in a mini-debate on my 9 points, but you give all sort of excuse, rather than being a man, and say “ok, hermes, your premises are generally correct and your conclusions are reasonable. So as far as the past, i cant say that it was illogicial to take the risk with olint”. Rather than say that, you come with this post. Your silence is deafening. In my opinion you have conceded the debate, regardless of what happens with olint from here on out, you will have to live with the fact that run way from baddup.
————————————————————————————————————————
NOCOTEC:
By the way no one loves an intellectual debate like me… Many will know that I used to post a lot on another site but as I have said publicly I have not been able to post as often I used to do because of my summer related commitments… Sometimes I am too busy to post regularly.
HERMES:
Let me see, you are so busy you could even respond to “the conclusion 1only” mini-debate that I gave you. That would have only took 10 minutes.
If you really love an intellectual debate, then prove it.
Ok, since you so busy. Tell mi the time and place when you have some time. Then we can do the mini-debate, point by point. It should not take more than an hour to get through all the points, if we are both online at the same time.
Or while you think about that, let me make it even easier for you, and let me come down all the way and give you even more leeway. Why don’t you review my 17 premises and just list which ones are incorrect? That should not take you more than 10 minutes. So why don’t we start there since your time is limited (eventhough you can still make all sort of long post like this one).
If you cant even do this, with this amount of leeway, then it will be obvious to all on this site that you have dodged, and given excuse again, after you take up big thing pan you head fi challenge me. If you don’t respond to even this “watered down” version of my challenge, then investforlife gwe haffi recruit sumady else fi debate me, because after this last post + plus this ya easy challenge, you are finished. You have no talk again.
—————————————————————————————————————————
NOCOTEC:
Further most people particularly in these times come to the site for pertinent information on whether payments have resumed, are likely to resume and if so when, and whether their money is safe or not.
HERMES:
So you rather speculate about what do you know than deal wid the concrete facts i lay out in my challenge. Bwoy, excuse, excuse!
Nocotec, don’t tell me you don’t have no shame like jason. In jamaica, if a man put you to the test and bad yu up and box you inna yu face, you cannot give excuse and say “i don’t have time to fight cuz of my summer schedule”. No, you roll up you sleeve and commence to put lick under him whats it not! If you walk away from this baddup whe mi gi yuh again yah so, you know what we call man like that in a yard.
Nuff said!
————————————————————————————————————————-
NOCOTEC:
For the most part I try to stick to those issues. I can debate and debunk your arguments whenever I have the time or inclination but much of your points are not really relevant in these times.
HERMES:
Well, why don’t start by debunking my 17 premises, since you have mouth! Start by debunking my conclusion 1.
And please stop saying, it is not relevant. If people know that there is evidence in the past that david was legit, then it will help them hold that a bit more to give david the benefit of the doubt. IN FACT, LET ME SAY, THIS, AND THIS IS A CHALLENGE TO ALL NAYSAYERS, IF ANYONE, ANYONE, CAN SHOW ALL MY 17 PREMISES TO BE FALSE, THEN I WILL GLADLY SAY THAT THERE IS NOTHING TO HOLD ONTO AFTER THAT…AND NO MORE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT BE GIVEN TO DAVID. BUT IF I BACK UP MY PREMISES AND MY CONCLUSIONS, THEN ALL NAYSAYERS SHOULD BE WILLING TO ALLOW DAVID THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, AT LEAST FOR A LIKKLE MORE.
I don’t know what else to say to get somebody to take mi up on my challenge. Bwoy, is like i have find another blog fi get a worthy opponent.
OFL:
Maybe you should do your own research as to why IndyMac failed, before making grand statement about flawed reasoning. It makes you look, well…, pathetic, maybe silly?!
Once you have done the requisite research, then we can discuss.
NoCotec good point about the cult like behaviour it is so true of some of these folks. When Super ConMan comes out with another B.S statement about delays the cultist will eat it all up.
P.S Hermes I read where you want to educate me. I will kindly decline your generous offer. I think your ‘education’ would cost me dearly.
Davesin, you are an idiot. what does indymac have to do with my 17 premises. thats called bait and switch. Davesin, why dont you take me up on my challenge. uno dont have no shame.
Furthermore, you cant even say respect due hermes, for ciorrecting us on the issue of risk capital, or accredited investors. you cant do it, you have no intellectually honest bone in you body.
you know what, you guys coming like t e republicans and the republican party.
you guys have no shame and cant admit when you wrong or when another has a point. its like you flex like george bush.
cant admit when you wrong.
I wil start to call unno the “REPLUBLICANS”
Why cant you guys show any intellectual honesty or objectivity
Davesin, my bad…..I did not see that you addressed your point to OFL.
But you have to admit, it look bad that nobody want to take up my challenge since them so sure that there is no back-up for Olint
Lol the great interpreter of the Gods is back with his obviously foolish premises.
It was those 17 foolish reasons that led you and your friends into the open arms of the ConMan. Olint has been disproving your premisis day by day. Your reasoning was clearly foolish and has made people lose all there cash. Is either your reasoning makes money or not and yours have resulted in LOSSES no need for further debate.
Hermes stick to philosophy leave investing to the pros
So Hermes,
What do you “logically” conclude is the reason why Olint has refused to pay you and its other “investors” since January?
What do you “logically” conclude is the reason why Olint wired money to JIJ Investments, a third party and then went on the radio and lied to Jamaica that there was no “third party transaction”?
What do you “logically” conclude is the reason why Olint chooses not to provide audited financials on its “trading”?
What do you “logically” conclude is the reason why Olint continued to post “gains” during the period in which it was under “due diligence” when Oanda states that if an account is frozen the client cannot trade?
I am sure you will probably come up with “logical” answers for all these questions and the many more staring you Olint “investors” in the face as you are Hermes the great god of animal husbandry but here again is where ones common sense should kick in. If I have to be coming up with reasons for why all these red flag situations are perfectly innocent why the hell would I want to be involved with such a scheme? Oh yeah remember why, 10% a month baby.
Jason, you are obviously the pro at investing since you dont have a license, never worked for a bank or brokerage, dont have any degree in finance, neva finish high school, neva took a licensing exam,
yes jason, i will follow anytime since you havebeen expoased to be a liar having lied about your financial guru status.
i will start to call you
JASON, THE DUMB-ASS WHO LIED ABOUT BEING FINANCIAL GURU
OR BETTER YET JASON, THE 95 PERCENTER
OR JASON, THE FINANCIAL ZOHAN OR HANCOCK
All fun aside, you still dont have no shame that you wont tell me which of my 17 premises are wrong. just list them for me. But you wont because you are scared.
you know you are no better than SEAN HANNITY OR RUSH LIMBAUGH ON THIS YAH FOX NEWS
MAYBE I WILL CALL YOU JASON HANNITY
Hermes
I thank you for that initial response to DaveSin.
DaveSin
What are you getting at about me doing my own research as to why IndyMac failed?
Wh ydon’t you go do that research?
The point to argue is why the failure when you are a regulated financial institution.
This reminds me so much of what happenned in Jamaica during the financial meltdown of the 90s when a number of our local banks and insurance companies failed. Since they were “regulated”, shouldn’t we expect the authorities to see the warning signs very early in the day and instruct them to “change course” instead of “going full speed ahead”, to use recent political slangs.
This is now, and in a much more regulated environment than Jamaica, yet they fail. So the strength of argument, justifying your call for regulation has been tested and has failed miserably.
So tell you what, please take up Hermes challenge to debate the things he has laid down.
And if you can’t, then you too should either put up or shut up.
Olint-for-life
Well Hermes at least I am not waiting on phantom wires like you and your sophisticated friends who followed your foolish 17 point premises.
The other website is starting to get even more hilarious. Ohhh Its the banks fault. Ohh Dave continue to fight for us. Leeching is the devil..blah blah blah blah
Same cry from Cash Plus investors, same cry from Higgins Investors.
These people are something else
Ok Jason
Enough comic relief for the day.
We hear you, okay Jason, we hear you.
Olint-for-life
Olint for life.
I haven’t had enough, tell your pals on the other site to keep it up. There ramblings are priceless
JOHNNY P,
This is the problem with you dumb-asses. You dont listen carefully. You hear only what is in your own hed.
I have never made a comment or defended anything about olint since the last 6 months. I have only commented on pre-january 2008.
Furthermore, I have said, that I will wait for the facts to come out just like everybody else. If you are on a jury for a trial, and somebody want issue a guilty verdict and stop the trial before all the evidence comes out, wouldnt you think that that person has an agenda. And if as a jury member, I insist that we all wait until the defense puts on its entire case and all evidence has been heard, would you automatically assume that I am going to vote NOT GUILTY”.
I have said before, you idiot, that I find some of the “no payment situation” issues to be troubling and that I will call down for on OLINT if shown to be a fraud or lying. Why cant you acknowledge that. I have been intellectually honest and admitted when things are troubling. I have taken a balanced approach. Why cant anybody else. Why cant you.
Ok, Johnny P, i am going challenge you intellectual honesty directly, and dont dodge:
Do you acknowledge that I have said as much? yes or no.
Let me ask you this: do you acknowledge that I was correct on the risk capital issue? yes or no.
Why cant you guys admit anything.
Furthermore, you agree that my 17 premises are factual. Yes or No. It is a simple question.
THE REPUBLICANS, bwoy. I tell you.
JOHNNY P – THE FOX NEWS ANCHOR.
Hermes and the 17 principles of financial of financial wizardry.
Guys
Are you sure you are not suffereing from the principle of “Group think”.
The challenge is for you to step out from this “groupy” position and argue like real men.
At the end of the day, one set of us will win, one set will lose. And from your pronouncements, you guys seem to have won already.
All that we are doing is testing your pre-mature victory for its soundness. But please leave Jason off the you team, he will only weaken your position.
Olint-for-life
Hermes you should write a book, here are some titles
’17 reasons to invest into a ponzi
’17 ways to invest for heavy losses’
Or ’17 reasons to get broke and enjoy it’
Or ‘Into the arms of a ConMan 17 ways to ensure you are investing in a scam’
Hermes the great interpreter of the Gods which book title would you prefer.
Johhny P. Why don’t you continue your statement and tell me which of the 17 premises are wrong. I am starting to think you guys are the cult. Nobody, but cult members, take this much beating and baddup and still punk out.
This is amazing.
To all bloggers, notice how in every case, johnny p, jason, nocotec, avoids doing the simple task of pointing out which facts are wrong. And these guys are the leaders of this site.
If we were in a court of law, the judge would tell them say they are being non-responsive and they have to answer the question.
You guys are the laughing stock.
Hey Jason
You are distracting us from dicussing serious issues with your “comic relief” type comments.
So I am reposting the following proverb for you.
*****
ARABIAN PROVERB
1
He who knows not and knows he knows not, He is simple – teach him;
2
He who knows and knows not he knows, He is asleep – wake him;
3
He who knows and knows he knows, He is wise; follow him.
4
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not, He is a fool – shun him
Author – Anonymous
******
So again, and I repeat, we hear you Jason, we hear you.
Olint-for-life
Jason, I prefer these titles:
17 reasons why jason is is an idiot
17 reasons why jason is a punk
17 reasons why jason run from baddup like a sissy
17 reasons why jason refuses to answer my questions
17 reasons why Jason lied about being a financial expert on this blog
17 reasons why jason dont have no shame
Which of these do you prefer, jason, the financial zohan, and 95% percenter
Hermes. I prefer the 95% percenter
Olint 4 life you should stop spreading conspiracy theories. Your buddy Super Dave has no money to pay anyone. You remind me on the other blog of another Die Hearter called Antony who was defending Cash Plus tooth and nail
You both have the same foolish arguments.
Olint 4 Life you need to accept that David Smith who charmed you has stolen the investors money. Plain and simple
You know what. I gone. I have stuff to do. Maybe, I will check back later tonight to see if any badman step up to plate. But I wont hold my breath. So I am going to go enjoy the day rather than wait around for an answer to a challenge that will never come,
You guys are a joke and waste of time.
sEE YOU Later, you REPUBLICANS!
Jason
Laughing spoil.
Which of Hermes book title do you prefer?
********
17 reasons why jason is is an idiot
17 reasons why jason is a punk
17 reasons why jason run from baddup like a sissy
17 reasons why jason refuses to answer my questions
17 reasons why Jason lied about being a financial expert on this blog
17 reasons why jason dont have no shame
Which of these do you prefer, jason, the financial zohan, and 95% percenter
*****
Olint-for-life
JASON,
95% PERCENTER WAS NOT ONE OF THE TITLES OF THE BOOK, YOU IDIOT.
YOU CANT EVEN READ.
FINANCIAL ZOHAN 95% PERCENTER IS A TITLE FOR YOU NOT THE BOOK, YOU DUMB-ASS
SEE,THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. YOU CANT EVEN A SIMPLE CARD CORRECT. AND YET YOU ARE GREAT FINANCIAL GURU INVESTOR THAT WE MUST LISTEN TO
PLEASE!
Jason
Why you upsetting Hermes & OLF so much ? 🙂
Marcus, nobody is getting up set.
Jason loves to get a flogging. and we love to give it.
He is a glutton for punishment, thats all.
My apologies Hermes the great interpreter of the Gods. I hope you will tell the gods I am deeply apologetic for misreading the post.
Back to your question
I would prefer
’17 Reasons Jason refuses to answer my questions’
Then under the title i would put
‘ when it is not neccessary to answer foolish questions when events are illustrating how foolish they were’
Anyway, I gone for real this time. I am out!
Happy republicanisms, while I am gone!
OFL
“Are you sure you are not suffereing from the principle of “Group think”.
The challenge is for you to step out from this “groupy” position and argue like real men.”
I dare you to post this on the Dravah’s bus.
How come you neva accuse your praying friends of group think? How come you never ask them to reason logically?
Could it be that you expect nothing else from them?
Hermes the great interpreter of the Gods, be safe on your journeys through the heavens and may you bring back good news from the gods.
Marcus
I dont know why they are getting upset at me. I don’t have any of there money
Amen !!
The Amen was for the good news from the gods !!
Yes Robin Irie
You can accuse me of “group think” over there.
I will admit to that.
But you will notice that when other people come over there to challenge them, they all respond to those persons, but not in the same gutter level way that Jason does, as everyone has come to know.
But can anybody on this bus admit to “group think”.
Both myself and Hermes have been waiting patiently to hear this, but the silence is deafening.
Furthermore, since this is more your bus than mine, shouldn’t you all as “Big Men”, rationally and sensibly challenge both Hermes and myself, but especially Hermes because he is “di Real Big Man”, so that it can be proven to all readers of this blog that what we are saying does not make sense.
And remember one thing, Hermes has said time and time again, that he is examining from an intellectual discourse, the reasons/rationale why persons (pre-2008) chose to invest with Olint. He never said that he is defending Olint comes what may, and that he is the first to call down FIRE pan Olint if Olint is found to be lying. He has laid down that challenge to one and all, and the only thing that people does is to “light fuse and run”.
And then Jason always come into the fray with his “comic relief” comments, distracting the true debaters here, and probably giving you all a “cop out” of the discussions. That is just cowardly of you all.
So as Hermes has said repeatedly,
“you should either put up, or shut up!”
Olint-for-life
I just got the time to read this blog today…. but I think it is becoming tasteless….like our neighbours. I think we need to stick to analysis and stop the name calling.. or we will become like we know who…..please people we are adults….I always come here for breaking news and great analysis…..Jason I think you are ruining it this blog…please have a little more decorom and proffessionlism…sometimes it is great to be bratty and sarcastic but you need to mix it up.
Anyone know what time the expected statement from OLINT will be released today ?
Hermes you are hilarious. That was the first comment I made about you. I have not been able to read the blog consistently and so I did not see your interaction with Jason. But your choice of the name Hermes is telling. You fit the description of what I posted perfectly. You are funny you write your own paper and grade it too… LOL
I repeat, in real investing there is no such thing as investing what you can afford to lose . What you have cited are disclaimers. These are similar to the warnings cited on medications. Medication warnings originate from the required double blind studies. If patients in the study report ailments while on the medication the ailment is listed as a possible side effect… people will have those ailments whether they are on the medication or not but by listing them the drug company avoids being sued and shifts the liability to the prescribing doctor.
The disclaimers you have cited are base disclaimers meant to give warning so that the idiots that you are lobbying for that do what is in the warning cannot sue saying they were not warned. It is a similar principle why a large percentage of the cost of ladders is liability insurance. Without a warning that you can fall and break your stupid neck, people sue the ladder manufacturer (some still do) saying they had no idea they could fall off the ladder. The warning prevents them from making that claim.
What you don’t get in your pseudo-brilliance as you seek to self congratulate yourself is that you can lose your money in many investments…. If the investment company or regulator does not warn people that this can happen then people like you who fall off a ladder and sue the manufacturer will sue saying they did not know they could lose any money. LOL LOL LOL…. Dude this is the equivalent of me saying there is no such concept of climbing a ladder with the purpose to fall and break your neck. In the real world no prudent person does such a thing. So you bring up the manufacturer’s disclaimer…. you may fall and get a serious injury…. So now some ladders (investments) are to be used for falling and breaking your neck (losing all your money)…. hahahaha… dude see why I say you are hilarious.
The concept of investing what you can afford to lose is something that is a disclaimer to prevent legitimate companies from being sued by idiots or dishonest people who claim they did not know they could lose any or all their money since they were never told. The other branch of the concept is used by people like you that like to support conmen… LOL…. when folks find out that their money was stolen… guys like you are there to say… “now, you did invest only what you could afford to lose, right.
But I could similarly respond to your so called 17 points item by item and end up with our 2 posts longer than the entire blog each time… Most readers simply skip over it as non-material meaningless irrelevant stuff. You would then have achieved your purpose of derailing the blog.
Sorry dude… won’t let you. I try not to reveal too much about myself as I prefer to remain anonymous on the blogs and if I did I am sure many would be able to recognize me. You are someone that likes to self congratulate yourself because you post and folks choose not to respond or are too busy to respond and so you take this to mean that you won. Very funny. I would put my academic and real world experience up against you any day. Just look at your judgment… you are choosing to argue on behalf of a ponzi scheme and crooks. You remind me of Nero, fiddling while Rome burns.
Here is the real deal. If Olint and these schemes are not ponzis I would be willing to donate a body part. 🙂 Why am I so confident, again I refer you to why I choose not to reveal too much about myself. Suffice it to say that I have the kinds of contacts where if you called me up and said I would like to have a meeting (legitimate business) with the very highest level of the government (either branch), I can arrange it. You can present points until the cows come home… Olint is a ponzi scheme. How would someone with extensive kinds of contacts know this? Hint… I refer you to Trafigura… follow the money trail every time. 🙂
Marcus, no it is not the same person but if it was I would not say because I might become guilty of obstruction of justice.
nocotec,
you are full of it. i will leave to the bloggers to read for themselves and see if the NFA, the CFTC, the SEC are wrong about risk capital.
why call it risk capital the ni f it is only a disclaimer.
its like debating with a guy who refuses to acknowledge that the sky is blue.
you just defeated yourself.
all your so-called contacts in the world, real or imagined, will not help you remove the term risk capital or speculative capital from every finance dictionary, textbook, nfa materials, cftc materials etc.
you are like george bush who thinks that he can repeat a lie over and over again and that people will believe it.
why dont you respond to these quotes rather than skip over them. your credibility is already damaged nocotec. Rather than admit being wrong rather, you go into spin mode.
so let me see if i get this straight. first you say that the concept of risk capital does not exist (i guess its all in my head) then now you say well it only exists as a disclaimer in a prospectus. Are you for real!
ok, taking out the examples using prospectuses, why dont you address the below clear examples of the risk capital by the NFA, CFTC and other sources
—————————————-
THE NFA EXAMPLE:
On page 20 of their pamphlet called “security futures”, the “nfa” had this to say about the “concept of investing what you can afford to lose.”
[ “futures trading in common stocks or any other type of futures trading is not appropriate for all individuals. THE ONLY FUNDS THAT SHOULD EVER BE USED TO SPECULATE IN STOCK FUTURES, OR ANY TYPE OF SPECULATIVE INVESTMENT, ARE FUNDS THAT REPRESENT RISK CAPITAL -.I.E. FUNDS THAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE WITHOUT ADVERSELY AFFECTING YOUR FINANCIAL HEALTH. Individuals should not risk any funds that they cannot afford to lose, such as retirement savings, medical & other emergency funds, funds set aside for purposes such as education or home ownership, proceeds from student loans or mortgages, or funds required to meet living expenses.” ]
nfa.futures.org/investor/security_futures/security_futures.pdf
See page 20
———————————————-
THE CFTC EXAMPLE:
The cftc had this to say about the concept of investing “what you can afford to lose”
[ “before you trade: know the basics of futures trading
CONSIDER YOUR FINANCIAL EXPERIENCE, GOALS, AND FINANCIAL RESOURCES AND KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE ABOVE AND BEYOND YOUR INITIAL PAYMENT. ]
cftc.gov/customerprotection/fraudawarenessandprevention/index.htm
—————————————————————-
[ “Speculative Capital: the funds earmarked by an investor for the sole purpose of speculation. This capital is often associated with extreme volatility and a high probability of loss. Most speculators have short-term investment horizons and often use high degrees of leverage in their efforts to obtain profits. Given the above average probability of loss in speculative trading, it is critically important to exercise good risk management and not become emotionally attached to a certain trade. It is not uncommon to see novice investors hold onto a position until it loses nearly all of its value. Given their limited experience, rookie traders should regard all their tradable capital as speculative capital. In other words, they should only invest whatever amount of money they can afford to lose without their way of life being materially affected.”]
investopedia.com/terms/s/speculativecapital.asp
[“RISK CAPITAL: the money that a person allocates to investing in high-risk securities. Basically, this is capital that you can lose without having to sleep on the streets. Investors who speculate in options or futures contracts should only use risk capital.”]
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/riskcapital.asp ]
LET ME SEE YOU GET OUT OF THIS ONE.
I AM GOING KEEP IT ON THIS TOPIC OF RISK CAPITAL UNTIL ADMIT BEING WRONG.
i WILL RESPOND MORE LATER!
NOCOTEC, what is hilarious is you squirming and trying to spin your way out of this one.
Let me ask you this:
Does risk capital as a concept exist in finance? yes or no
then how do you explain the NFA’s definition?
The NFA is asking to invest in anything so t does not need to make disclaimer. it is a regulatory body. the same one that investigated I-trade. So now you want to say that the NFA does not know it is talking about.
This is amazing!
NoCotec.
I honestly don;t know why you even bothered with Hermes silly reasoning. Most have said ‘Invest only what you can afford to lose’ and he is trying to equate that to Risk Capital. lol
My business is investing and while I have conservative plays alot of my capital to invest I will consider my risk capital. I know I cannot afford to lose it.
Investing into entities like Olint is akin to gambling. That is not investing.
Investing has 3 stages
1 Your initial reasons for entry and the CONDITIONS under which you will enter
2 Monitoring the investment (Having periodic audits)
3 Your exits
Entering debates with people like Hermes and Olint for life to me is useless and a waste of your time because half of point number one is lost on them (they did not see it fit as one of the conditions for entry is having independent audits).
Point number 2 went way over there heads they reason because someone MAY have done something in the past they are likely to continue to do it in the future. ( So again they see no importance on audits they have faith in hope and the person.
As to point number 3 they have no idea when to get the hell out.
So just because he may have had a reason to put the money in ( however flawed and based on terrible assumptions) they ignore the other pieces of the pie that separates investors from gamblers.
NoCotec the point is lost on them and debating endlessly is useless, some people will forever have there heads in the sand.
HAHAHa… Hermes so what is the point of this debate… how is it change the FACT that Olint is a ponzi.
Risk Capital… almost every investment involves risk of loss… at a bank it is risky above the insured limit… it is risky because of loss from inflation… blah blah
The regulator is issuing the same disclaimers/warnings like the FSC has done on these UFOs aka ponzi schemes. The world is full of idiots and morons and those that love intellectual masturbation. Debating ad nauseum to prove to themselves that they are a legend in their own mind. If regulators and investment companies do not give these warnings to people that investment involves the risk of total loss, many many people will have no idea it can happen.
I always try to revert back to Olint etc as this is the purpose of the blog… Look at how many people believed they can invest with schemes that provided no proof that they were generating legitimate returns… no independently audited returns…. and they are surprised that the result is total loss for the vast majority. How is that even possible? What is wrong with people?
Like the FSC’s warning about investing with UFOs… the regulators warnings you cite are similar… In your world you interpret the FSC warnings as take a chance and dive in… did you notice that since the FSC started their warnings almost all investors will lose some or all their money… only the early ones like OFL (who were before the warnings) got lucky… The regulators statement are warnings… that is what they effectively are… However I do understand that there are people like you that see the Warning sign, Do not swim here very dangerous current undertow… and still jump in to swim… You interpret a warning to prudent investors as a challenge to swim the dangerous current… most drown.
It is people like you pushing this mentality why so many have lost and will lose in the Jamaican ponzi schemes. You saw the warning but you went around spreading nonsense that it makes sense to take a chance because… hey you did invest only what you can afford to lose, right… What a bunch of crap. And why are you still trying to push this nonsense… Are you trying to get people to send more money to Olint to feed the ponzi so that you and or your brethren can get their money back…. or are you a part of Olint, the one that put up the new wire instructions because you know if new money does not come, sh*t has hit the fan already.
Why are you still trying to push the nonsense in your posts… supporting schemes that have failed to pay back folks… And Olint was a ponzi before January 2008… like all ponzi they just ran out of time at that time…
Give it up dude… guys like you have already caused enough loss and heartache to Jamaicans… these schemes depend on psuedo-intellectual types like you to create the rational for them to trick people and then steal their money. How do you guys sleep at night knowing the despair that you help to cause.
So he throws a bone and we run at it. are we that desperate. we are now blaming banks, and Lee Chin, without any proof. all we are hearing is that sources say this and sources say that, and we run with it. Is there any once of proof yet. We know for a Fact that there is some lying going on at Olint, as they said they have the money, then they say they do not have it, then they go back to blaming the banks. What would be hard to prove the source of funds. the Source is Oanda, show his trading accounts at Oanda to the banks.
We are acting like dogs , glad for any scraps of bone thrown our way. This is the typical behavior of people in Denial, Carlos Hill did the same thing, blame the banks to the end, even though he did not have any money in the bank. Claiming the bank was holding up his money, when he had less than JA $1 million in the bank when it came to light. Lets stop making excuses for Olint and demand money or proof. The trend is to use delay tactics by throwing out the usual suspects. Why Olint doesn’t use BNS if Lee Chin is giving him a fight ?. Answer is all banks require by law to know the source of funds!!!
Jason,
The NFA document defined risk capital as “money you could afford to lose”. I did not define it that way. the NFA did.
[ “futures trading in common stocks or any other type of futures trading is not appropriate for all individuals.
Quoting the NFA:
“The only funds that should ever be used to speculate in stock futures, or any type of speculative investment, are funds that represent “risk capital” -.i.e. funds that you can afford to lose without adversely affecting your financial health.
Individuals should not risk any funds that they cannot afford to lose, such as retirement savings, medical & other emergency funds, funds set aside for purposes such as education or home ownership, proceeds from student loans or mortgages, or funds required to meet living expenses.” ]”
Click to access security_futures.pdf
I want to see you guys keep debating me on this. Because you are in effect debating the NFA. This is funny!
You guys are going to continue running up against this brick wall of facts.
I will let the bloggers decide.
Jason, dont debate me. It’s ok, we all understand
PS: It remains to be seen whether Olint is a ponzi.
But what is not in question is that nocotec is wrong about the existence of risk capital. You, jason, are wrong about its definition. Both of you keep debating the NFA
At least Jason, you disagree with nocotec about the existence of the concept of risk capital.
This one getting thorny bwoy!
nocotec, you are an idiot.
Now you admit that risk capital exists. but you still dont understand what it means. how many timesd o i have to post the definition by the NFA. This indicates that people can invest their retirement savings but that is not money they can afford to lose, as an example. it is not saying that investments carry risk. you are a fraud. you have finance background.
Furthermore, you dont know anything about. If I told you who I am, you would shut up.
Moreover I never told anybody to invest. You are making stuff up by trying to switch the subject from utter defeat and shameful exposure as a fraud. You are no better than Jason your credibility is destroyed.
But its ok I feel you pain.
now story come to bump. you are financially ignorant. but whats worst is that you are intellectually dishonest and a fraud.
good look with yourself. nocotec, the financial guru who doesn’t even know what risk capital is or what it means
nocotec
On the whole, I am a sensible investor, but like many, I get caught up in the OLINT hype ! When all your friends and family are living it up on their proceeds, you can’t help but feel left out of the “manna from heaven”.
The whole thing was also fueled by the uderlying disappointment in the traditional banking system which “nickels and dimes” you to death and has such a wide margin between saving and borrowing rates, you feel you are being ripped off. When NCB first tried to close O’s a/c’s, I polled my address book and had 100% votes PRO DS.
When all the dust settles on this mess, I hope “The Ponzi Nation” book is completed and published 🙂 When you think about it, the whole thing has been fiendishly clever.
Do you think if people only invested their risk capital, so much people would be trouble?
That might have meant $100 for some, $1000 for others etc.
If I was really spreading this stuff, as you falsely accuse me of, maybe only risk capital would be lost.
but you cant see past your nose and your bias.
NEWS FLASH: NOCOTEC, EXPOSED AS A FRAUD
Hermes said… “Davesin, you are an idiot. what does indymac have to do with my 17 premises. thats called bait and switch.”
Hermes said….. “Davesin, my bad…..I did not see that you addressed your point to OFL.”
Now it has come to past, that THE Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent ONE, Hermes, has descended into being “on pin and needles”. The great Hermes has been reduced to seeing duppy (ghost for my American friend) or assuming the name of OFL or OFL is engrossed by Hermes. Hermes has morphed into name calling, a precipitous fall from great esteemed debater.
To top it off, it is now self evident that Hermes is “quick on the draw”, giving credence to the whispers behind this back as to the reason why his wife was cheating on him and eventually abandon the marriage….yes, premature ejaculation! Yes, she could tolerate his cross-dressing, ignoring a few of her missing dresses and make-up, but now, after 3-years of being left” high and dry”…enough is enough.
Can we all leave the Hermes alone…please. Given the level of jittery by these Olint supporters, I would not want to be a contributor to his (premature) suicide. Like the #4 bus, can we now become a praying bus?
DAVESIN, I think you have me confused with your father and your mother!
Ok I get it this is just like cash plus investment , jamaicainvestment watch etc and all those several other blogs (now dead ) where 4 or 5 people of superior intellect dominate the blog with their long ass boring epistles and then degenerate into personal attacks and name calling until the blog eventually dies
How civilized no wonder the guys next door don’t want you on their bus
You may be have some good points however when is wrapped in arrogance , rudeness , and ridicule somehow the real message that people need to hear gets lost
Congrats Jason, jay, john doe & nocotec another blog on the death list keep up the good work ! 🙂
MADmax/Moony is in the house (Blogkiller)! Madmax/Moony…weh yu a falla wi fa?
Marcus, getting caught up is one thing many people have, but I guess the trick is recognise it and learn from it. Not keep yourself in the clouds. Most successful investors have made massive mistakes in the past and looking back would laugh. Lesson learn from mistakes and move on, not debate to the end like some people on the blog.
Hermes, you are sinking yourself, keep it up.
BloggKiller
What do you want us to do, engage in conspiracy theories like other places. Or start praying. The truth is often cold. live with it.
hey jason
what happened to your other blogs ????
But Jason blogkiller makes a valid point we can be critical without be denegrating……People may soon get turned off…..let the message prevail not stoop to the level of the other blog.. The reason I like this blog is the critical analysis and great info….But we have to careful of slander and maligning other constantly.
A little of a thing is good…not too much and too extreme.
i did not have other blogs blogkiller. I was kicked off the cashplusinvestment and the invest4life blogs.
mmmmmmm catd if you mean calling super dave a conman. I will not stop. I call a spade a spade. People are suffering because of this clown while he is in the Turks relaxing and sending people to blogs to spread propoganda
we have seen this with higgins, cash plus and now Olint, and as soon it is clear they are scams the propagandist suddenly vanish
Blogkiller does not know what he is talking about. The Cashplus blog died because the C+ supporters stop blogging after the demise of C+. Look at “cashplusfamilynetwork” site, the detractors did not post on that site, yet the site is dead. The same is true of the Higgins/C+ site. Once people realize they were fleece, they disappear into oblivion.
May I add that if and when Olint/MD is declared a scam, the same fate will result for this and the I4L blogs. So you see “blogkiller (Madmax/Moony)”, your premise is flawed.
People will suddenly vanish because you guys dont have any respect for people.
I got involved on this blog 1 week ago to get news like everyone else. I have never been on any of these blogs ever before.
If you recall, I only got involved to make corrections on minor factual points such as the glass steagal act and the blurring of the lines between bank and brokerage houses and use of brokerage accounts. I never got involved in any debate about the non-payment issue or defended OlINT at that time. I just came to get the news.
Then I noticed a thing. Jason was rudely disrespecting every single OLINT investors as fools and promulgating his credential as a financial guru-know-it-all to intimidate people. I thus decided to jump in and take Jason on because, after reading what pipsologist had to say and that he left being turned off by jason, it was clear that people on the middle of this issue were being intimidated by Jason. So I decided to whoop his ass and give him a taste of his own medicine several times throughout the past week. I despised the fact that Jason was allowed to run rampant with his disrespect to others.
That was my first time making a comment, not to defend OLINT but to put Jason in check.
Then Jay asked a question saying he just does get it “why did people invest OLINT…it made no common sense” to him. So taking this at face value, I offered a perspective that was lacking on this blog. I was polite and respectful. I intended to show that the many people who invested in OLINT had reasons that made sense to them at the time prior to Jan 2008.
Then the debate began. I got dragged into it. But it was ok, because I like debating plus I like speaking up on behalf of the other readers and bloggers who take a middle-ground approach [they are not die-hard OLINT backers but they know they are not stupid either and that waiting for the facts is the prudent thing to do].
Then a funny thing happened. All of a sudden, many more middle-of-the-road bloggers started blogging because they now felt that the way was paved for there to be an intelligent discussion. And the patronage of this site sky-rocketed. I was glad to have contributed to that in any way that I could
Then a bad thing happened…..the site authors posted the Oanda email and then an op-ed piece. That started to turn people off.
Just prior to this, I calmly laid down a quiet mini-debate challenge that would not involve long posts after nocotec adressed my post to Jay. I responded to nocotec in a polite manner and thought we would engage in some good analysis that would bring more light to the situation by intelligent and calm reasoning but nocotec got off track and nocotec did not respond to my attempts to clarify the facts…..by me basically saying, if you honestly think my facts are wrong then tell me which ones and we can debate them and in an intellectually hones way we can get somewhere and maybe we all could learn something. Nocotec still did not respond for days and nobody else did either.
Then all of a sudden there was a concerted effort by jason, davesin, nocotec, johhny p, jay, and others to take things into the gutter almost purposefully, rather than address things intelligently. I suspect that they saw that with my arguments not being overcomed, they were losing the mission of this site….to convince people that OLINT is a fraud, rather sticking to the noble mission of being a purveyor of news and facts.
That is what will kill this blog.
I am at the point where I wont even bother anymore.
Contrary to the accusations by Jason, I was not sent to this site by David or anyone else to spread propaganda. Just like I dont think nocotec, jason, davesin, jay, johhny p and others work for the FSC or for leechin and was sent here by them.
But what is clear is regardless of whether one thinks OLINT is a ponzi or not, being able to listen to others and take whats known as a psychological risk where you ask yourself “could I be wrong…let me hear the evidence” is something that will make this world a better place.
But if we choose to operate like a Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, where no matter what .. by definition the other side is wrong or stupid or blind, then you know how that turns out. Each and everyone of you, if you have ever found yourself sick to your stomach hearing Sean Hannity, then you will know how others who are balanced feel when they hear you spew out your one-sided biased hate. Even if you turn out to be correct that Olint is a Ponzi, there is no excuse for unno behavior.
Selah!
if you throw a stone in a hog pen the one that squeel him it lik.
where is the word from Super Dave he promised.
Guys
WHY ARE WE HERE BLOGGING?
It is to hear the untold story how one man has turned the investing market in Jamaica on its head.
So please take your seat and let us begin.
Let me share with you some secrets about investing and the stock market that some of you may not know.
If and when you start a business, and you are hoping to have first mover advantage, be careful when you go to the bank with your business proposal. Because if the wicked bank people want it, they may not lend you the money, but may want you to leave a copy of the proposal with them, that is if they don’t make a copy already. This is why sometimes certain class of people in Jamdown have certain types of businesses.
Also try not to show it to your friend, because he may be the first person to betray you.
The money that you use to start a business is risk capital. However, the path to success is the road seldom travel by the majority which is why it is lonely. The question however is, can you “afford to lose that money”? If the business is successful, then man you will be rich. But if you use your children’s education fund, or your retirement fund, etc, and the business fails, then that’s a big failure indeed. If you did mortgage your house or borrow against your car to finance the business start up, then POOF, they are gone.
So as Hermes have been saying all along, investing involves “Risk Capital”.
But is it money “you can afford to lose”?
Stay tuned for more on Stock Market.
Olint-for-life
Where indeed !!
Hermes;
I feel your pain. That is the problem with the other blog as well.
A nuh because unuh chat patwa why unuh a bhutuh.
It is for the simple reason that there is no space for a genuine exchange of ideas on that blog. They only want you on their bus if you think exactly like them. There is no space for alternate points of view. That behavior is sadly creeping in on this blog as well, albeit from the opposite point of view.
I value those who challenge my own point of view because it will only serve to strengthen my own ideas.
Continuing…
If you can’t take the headache of investing for yourself, then put your money in say a savings account with a commercial bank or any other financial institution, or in a certificate of deposit. You won’t get much interest on your money but at least it will be “safe”. Did I say “safe”? I just remembered that IndyMac, a certain big mortgage bank in the US was just reported to have failed. So “safe” is relative.
Anyway, you will be numbered amongst the many thousands of depositors so you can monitor that financial institution. But wait, depositors are not entitled to receive audited financial statements, only shareholders. So you had better buy shares and become a shareholder, that way, you are entitled to receive audited financial statements, and “you can monitor the bank”. O hell, but some banks are still failing, DRAT.
Somewhere along, a friend invite you to an investment forum and you hear how the stock market gives exciting above market returns. But they discretely left out the part where the stock market can dip big time and cause your initial investment to be seriously eroded. Nevertheless, your eyes pop wide open, excited about the possibility of making above market average returns. So the next day, you pull out your money to invest in the stock market.
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF “RISKY” INVESTMENTS, fasten your seat belt because you are going on a wild roller coster ride.
To be continued…
Olint-for-life
So you are in the Stock Market
You hear the following term echoed repeatedly,
BULL RUN!!!
You call up your Stock Broker friends and ask what is happening?
They responded, “the stock market doing well man. I bought some stocks yesterday, and they are already up 10%”.
So you and others jump in the market and feel good that you made some nice retunrs on your money. So let me see now, you can make above market returns from the Stock Market and its all good, it is legitmate, it is not a Ponzi Scheme. HMMM!
But all good “BULL RUN” has to come to an end. Your Stock Broker friend sell his stocks to some “sucker” who comes in late in the game, refer to the Elliot Wave Theory” guys to keep up with me. He realised his profits, but say to you, “BUY AND HOLD”. So you do, and watch the value of your stocks go down to nothing, some of them even go below the price you bought them for. You are livid, start to cuss, but he calms you down and say, “remember stock market investment is for the long term; you must buy and hold because the market will rebound”.
You left, “bex nuh RA$$”, and can’t understand how come you made so much money from the stock market and then lose it back. But your other friend bex wid you too. Him a cuss you because you caused him to invest in the stock market right when it reached a peak and if him sell right now, he would suffer a big loss on his investment.
Your stock broker takes you for an idiot and call you up again and said, have you heard about “Dollar Cost Averaging”? This is where you buy a set value of stocks at periodic intervals, regardless of whether the stock price is going up or down. That way, the value of your portfolio, is bound to increase over time.
The audacity of the man, and he is driving his current year BMW, while you are still driving a Hyundai Accent.
You think about it, remembering only too well, “once bitten, twice shy”, so you decline to tell him “bout him RA$$”, and politely say, “I will call you back”.
But then you hear about David Smith of Olint. You cannot believe what you hear, and since “nutten nah gwaan fi you”, you say, what do I have to lose. Everything going on well or so it seems
Your broker calls you up and ask, “what a gwaan, mi can see you”. You are laughing your head off and want to tell him to go F**K himself. Your broker mad nuh hell.
Then your bank manager calls and ask why are you pulling your savings, be careful with what you do with it. But you trusted your bank manager over the years and you tell him what a gwaan. He disbelieves you at first, but then he too decides to take the plunge and invest with David. And then the news gets around like wild fire, everybody pulling funds left, right and center. All the banks start to panic because too much funds leving them all at once. O, I have been hearing about this David Smith. Alright, we a go teach him a lesson.
So the banks got together for a tea party (association meeting), and said, enough is enough. Lets bring down this man. Let us start to spread the word that this man is running a Ponzi Scheme, and if that can’t work, let’s go to the government and complain. And if that can’t work, let’s hit him where it hurts the most. Let us close his bank accounts so him can’t receive any money, And if that still can’t work, we will prevent him from wiring funds into this country.
Stay tuned next week for more ….
Olint-for-life
Stop talking about not wanting Hermes. Hermes and other people on this blog have a fundamental disagreement when it comes to investing. We have made our points and Hermes have made his. There is simply a disagreement.
It just happens that with Herme’s approach there is a greater chance of ending up into a ponzi scheme.
Olint-for-life,
I am dying to hear what you have to share about the stock market. Clearly your investing prowess so far has been legendary.
CJ,
Emotions are running high on both sides of this issue. There is no longer any room for reasoned thought. The stakes are now too HIGH.
So where is this “communication” we have been expecting all day?
Let me stress that the following is pure speculation, and is not at all confirmed but there is a rumour going around Jamaica about a certain topical family all disappearing on ‘vacation’, and no not to a weekend in T&C. It would be very helpful is someone could discount this rumour.
When people have your money and won’t communicate with you, that is an ominous sign.
We might might need to start a “Seen David Smith” posting, where sightings of Super Dave and Wayne could be posted. ~~~ LOL. If I don’t laugh I gwine mad!
No payments, no payment schedule, no returns for May, no explanations, just dead silence.
Oh, but we must still have faith cause Dave and Wayne are “Christian!”
CJ – Don’t worry. OFL & Hermes have vouched for him.
CJ.
This is the fundamental problem with these investment clubs, as for the most part the consider themselves to be doing a favour for their clients.
As I have said before, you will not find a very active blog for JMMB, Mayberry or Barita as their is very little room for speculation as their financial data is a mere click away.
The AIS on the other hand provide very little information to their clients resulting in many of them ending up on blogs like these searching for information on their investment.
Another broken promise by Olint, as no money was paid yesterday and up to this point in time there has been no correspondence.
I am sure however that there is a very good explanation for both.
If he takes off will all are money. I hope someone hunts him down.
CJ:
Tthere is a big difference between this bus and the #4 bus. Over there, if you don’t tow the there line, they ban you for life! How many people have been ban from this site?
If in July 2009, we are still waiting to get paid, there will still be those among us telling us to pray for David because Michael Lee Chin is fighting him. And I suppose David not smart enough to out maneuver Mr. Chin.
Frankly I am surprised no one has blamed the usual suspects (G.W. Bush, Seaga or the CIA) for Olint’s inability to pay. But it’s early days yet.
Yea I check both sites. This one I use more for the news updates and just leave comments mostly on the #4 BUS. I’ve pretty much lost all respect for David Smith even if he isn’t the reason why the money has gone out. He could have done a 2nd interview or sent out an email explaining on what’s going on. Like I said on the other bus, people tend to be more patient when they’re not being completely ignored. There’s really no excuse. Plus where’s are magical June return and why hasn’t that been posted. Is it a loss this month and he’s afraid to add more fuel to the fire? July 12 and no posting of a gain or lose this is information that a good club could give you on the 1st of every month.
Lessons Learnt from the AIS
Having witness the explosion of the the AIS in Jamaica and the billions of dollars that have blown up as a result of the collapse on many of these, have we learnt anything.
1. What drew people to these schemes
2. What caused people to continue with them.
3. Why did people continue to support them given the strong warning by the regulators and others.
4.Why , even in the face of strong evidence to show that these schemes were fraudulent in nature did people continue to support them.
5. Why did people give them so much time to restructure( meaning in Jamaica – Hide all the money), while still continuing to support and defend them.
6. Why are people so upset with “detractors, the big banks, FSC, BOJ and not with the fraudsters.
7. What was the modus operandi of the collapsed AIS.
8. What were the common features of their operations.
9. What were the warning signs of their imminent collapse.
10. Were there any similarities and if so what were they.
11. How about the principals, how were they viewed by Jamaicans.
12. Close to the end , how did their PR machinery operate ie sponsorships etc.
Jamaicans were caught up in sea of euphoria as suddenly it appears that money was so easily made and everyone would soon by driving a Range.
Many Jamaicans were so (some still are) hooked on 10% per mth that they will need to go to rehab to kick that habit of investing in AIS albeit that they are investing what they can afford to lose.
DaveSin;
I know. I have a fundamental problem with how that blog operates. There are no guidelines that you can use to reference what will get Kevin to censor you. The first inkling you have that el presidente is unhappy with you, is that your posts just disappear. Of course, because you have no idea what you said to disturb his sensitivities, you continue to post, until blog-president-for-life bans you for life.
The civilized way to operate a blog, would be to post usage guidelines as to what behavior the blog master finds acceptable or unacceptable.
Then when there is a violation, the person is told what the objection was, given a chance to make amends or apologize, and if the objectionable behavior continues, THEN the person should be banned.
But I guess that makes way too much sense for us Jamaicans to conceive of a community that civilized and orderly, so that blog is guided by mob-rule.
I see some of the same tendencies on this blog as well, albeit to a much lesser extent.
PipUNIT;
You are correct, David Smith’s silence is inexcusable and cowardly.
Hermes
Interesting post
Jason
Brilliant Hog response “deep:”
Davesin
I guess the folks on the #4 bus don’t want their blog to die or end up dominated by 4 -6 posters
CJ
I agree that there should be space for genuine exchange of ideas on a blog. I’m sure that’s the only reason that you referred to those people as butos 😦
Olint for Life
Give it a rest ! DS is not Jesus !
CJ
I agree with you that we should lift the standard of our discourse.
But why do you and others fail to chastise or reprimand your fellow bloggers who are guilty of the gutter level talk.
Jason is repeatedly guilty of this.
But when DaveSin insulted Hermes earlier, man, I couldn’t believe it. It was disgusting, but because we are blogging, we can only respond in kind.
Also, somebody blogging here earlier referred to the persons on the #4 blog as buttoos. Now that person is very rude because if you read the further postings over there, you will see how they get vex and are responding in kind. So the people here must start behaving better too, and everyone knows who they are.
Olint-for-life
Thw other blog seems not to be letting thru some of my post. this is Kullcull for those who care. why are we now blaming the banks. all banks (not NCB) are mandated to get the source of funds. it is a federal requirement. why make excuses for David Smith, all he has to do is provide the souce of funds. because the banks can only oppose him on law, they cannot take the money because of Bad Mind. he is holdoing on to our money while we suffer becaue of lack of transpareny. how are we sure that he is not laundering the money. the banks have a right to protect themselves. we only see our money and regard people who are upholding the law as fighting out the small man. just give the sources, we get our money. pay our taxes and everybody happy. why should we fight the bank, in which we will waste time and money and still lose.
more excuses will come from David Smith, Friday has gone. give rumours that it is the banks, we jump at the scraps, because we want to believe that he is not a con man, so we blame banks, we are constantly blaming everybody else except the man who has our money,
funny thing is most people from the other blog read this one for real news
k u l l c u l l
not to jump on this blog and start criticize, but to make it better.
if most people post shorter post to the point, if it is too long most people will skim over it or get bored.
Arguing less over pointless stuff and let the content denigrate, remember, information and meaningful dialogue
KullCull,
I agree with you 100%. The problem however is that as of right now there is little to NO news or information. Club members were waiting like thirty beggars in a desert for an update from Mr. Smith today on the state of payment and wire transfers.. But alas, nothing has been said…. so time continues to pass.. emotions continue to boil over….
Thursday, turns to friday. friday turns to saturday. saturday turns to tuesday…….
For the TRUE believers…. i ask, what would have to happen for you to be CONVINCED that this thing has failed and that is now a ponzi?
We need to ask David Smith, because at the end of the day, he is the one who we gave our money, there is innuendo drop by him for us to run and blame other people. things like ‘big man’ a fight against him, this gives us in a class war.
David Smith is a “Big Man’, as no small man I know has a private jet !!. David Smith is the one with the answers, we should demand concrete answers from him, not buck shuffling
If the banks were really holding up the money, wouldn’t they be only too happy to tell us that?
LOL
Kullcull:
I kept reading yours & Danews posts on the #4 and knew it was only a matter of time before they kick both of you off their bus. Welcome to our bus, where no one is kicked off. Keep posting, because even though they won’t admit it, they ALL read visit this site!!!! Now they are going to claim that we kidnap yu!
Here is a question for the club members — if David only exposes 20% of your funds to the FOREX market, where is the remaining 80% sitting? Because of the high leverage in the FOREX market, David really does not need to keep much of the funds in the trading account. So where are the remaining funds?
None of you would be able to answer this question, because there is no transparency. Olint [David] should provide club members with quarterly audited financial statement, which would show how much money is exposed to the market and how much is held in CASH. Where is the CASH???
Transparency and accountability make you more careful with people’s money. You tend to take more risk when you are not accountable to anyone.
Here is a quote that is applicable to DS — “Absolute power corrupts, ABSOLUTELY!!”
The great investment club, which might have started off “clean” has now become a “corrupt” Ponzi Scheme.
PIPSologist
Where is hermes? Hermes mi apologize. You can’t just pickup you ball and go home like that. Now what are we going to play with?
Come back mon and lets play ball or marbles.
thanks for the welcome. this site is number 1 for information. people should just try to keep on point.
right now Michel Lee Chin name is thrown in the fray, so now some racial hatred is thrown his way for good measure. somehow MLC is supposed to be fighting out the black man. the old divide and conquer rule. I do not know MLC , suspect like most people with big money he did some bandooloo stuff, but I do not think that he is at the heart of this. he surely will not help, but I do not think that he or other conspiracisy is holding up the money. David Smith should lay the cards on the table. whey di money dey ?. we want it now, not nuh bS excuse
Pipologist,….
Showing your books mean nothing and if you are an US citizen you really understand that books can be “cooked”. Just ask Arthur Anderson and Enron. Arthur Anderson Consulting cooked the books of Enron that misled the investors to believe the company is profitable. look at how Moody-Fitch gave AAA ratings to Ambac and MBIA the 2 largest bond insurers of mortgage companies even as the companies were writing down billions of dollars in bad CDO’s (Collateralized Debt Obligations) on mortgage securities. It doesnt matter…
kullcull its ok to questions one integrity but not to slander and issue racial slurs like our neighbour…This blog has become number bacause we have lively discussions based on information , analysis and research…. lets keep it that way.
even our neighbours are coming here for info to post on the other blog…..wow ….lets keep up being 1st in class
pipso…i really don’t think the big O has any intentions to to any of that if right now him not ven want wi know what a gwaan or weh di money deh.
Charges in Berkshire case
Barry Critchley, Financial Post
Published: Saturday, June 28, 2008
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=c9b735e5-021e-47a0-b860-c5d10520f9e4
Extract:
“A commission panel heard evidence from 26 clients, whom it says Thow convinced to invest $8.7-million primarily in construction loans and shares of a Jamaican bank, advising some to sell their mutual funds and to mortgage their homes to raise the money to do so. The panel found neither the construction loans nor the shares existed. “The clients lost most or all of their money,” it determined.
The Jamaican bank in question was the National Commercial Bank Jamaica, owned by AIC and/or Michael Lee Chin (AIC’s largest shareholder.) Thow promoted the bank because of his “apparent close relationship with Michael Lee Chin,” the commisson said. Thow was fined $6-million and banned from participating in B. C.’s capital markets.”
Olint-for-life
This is all posters.
Please stick to the issues and note the following. We might disagree but we all need to be civil and respectful.
1. Please try and keep your posts short and to the point.
2. Please avoid the excessive use of FULL CAPS as it is extremely difficult to read
3. Please, Please desist from the name calling, the swearing and the vulgar behaviour.
4. Please do not badger people to respond to a post. People have a right to NOT to respond or to respond
Note:
1. Posts with multiple links will be automatically held for moderation
2. No posts with adult related material or links will be accepted.
While I welcome the call for civility on this site I cannot condemn Jason, Necotec (or myself for that matter) for ridiculing those that seek to present arguments as to why Olint was not a ponzi scheme. To ignore all the overwhelming evidence pointing to that and to get into some “nice” discussion with those that try to carry the Olint banner would not be giving this site justice as it clearly was set up to call into question the wisdom of getting into these UFO’s in the first place. I do not think the creators of this site wished to get into a “discussion” with fans of these UFO’s as to why they may be in fact be “genuine investment vehicles”.
The creators of this blog went as far as to post stories on other ponzi schemes and frauds that have popped up over the years. Great job on the Lou Perlman story btw. Now if you Olint supporters have not seen the value in the wealth information being shared by the creators of this blog (and the Olint detractors like Jason and Necotec) re investing and its pitfalls then you are doomed to throw your hard earned money into the next Olint when it comes along.
Look at what is happening to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Run on banks are about to engulf the US in the next year. Why is the US govt bailing out banks who practice risky investment, (i.e., CDO’s on mortgage securities). You guys think OLINT is in trouble. In the US Citigroup, WaMu, Wachovia, Bank of America, etc. are all over-leveraged due to the mortgage meltdown. Bear Stearns and IndyMac are examples of run on banks are necessary.
john p my friend we be can critical without being mean….Jay does a good job of that.
Mr. Invest for life I think this string is getting too long like if I may say so….Could we have one that says “weh di money deh”….I do not know if I am being too presumptious in asking…just a request from one of your loyal bloggers.
@Catd… You request will be granted soon.
@Jonny P.. Comments noted.
@Hermes Your comments are noted. I will categorically state that my opinion has nothing to do with NoCotec’s opinion or advice.
Theboom
Are you excusing OLINT for their behavious because US banks have made a mess also ??
The two situations, though similar, are remarkably different in their genesis and in there eventual outcomes.
An uphill battle for restitution
Barry Critchley, Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, February 28, 2007
http://www.financialpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=d1ba3346-d0fc-4e0e-8576-91fead894d22&k=86107
Extract:
This is the tale of one couple’s battle to regain money lost when they invested with Ian Thow, a former senior vice-president in the Victoria office of Berkshire Securities, who almost two years back skipped the country, leaving $32-million in losses. It’s not a happy tale. It has dragged on and reflects badly on some participants in the world of mutual funds, the companies that employ them and the regulators that oversee them. The couple is Kirk Wong and Krista Kleven, who gave Thow $133,000 to invest in preferred shares of National Commercial Bank Jamaica.
******
Prior to making that investment, Thow told Wong he “owned 2% of each of Berkshire and of AIC.” Thow said AIC “was purchasing the bank [in Jamaica] and he could get us into some preferred shares,” at attractive rates.
“The preferred price was 30? Jamaican,” said Wong, who also met Lee-Chin when he came to the Vancouver. “We went to ‘Meet the Billionaire’ in 2003 and that’s when he [Lee-Chin] promoted the bank in Jamaica,” he said.
******
Summary The couple say the MFDA “has all the power to take care of the situation and to stop Berkshire.”
They add that “these types of stories happen way too often and it doesn’t seem that the regulatory bodies can give the public any answers. Everything is confidential, they can’t comment and can’t keep us updated. It’s very frustrating for investors. Nobody seems to want to do their job,” said Kleven, who was forced to add an extra $189,000 to their mortgage to “get us out of this mess.”
*********
Olint-for-life
OFL,
What is the point you are trying to make with your post on NCB, Wong and Berkshire
Am I missing something here.
They are FYIs.
I posted no opinion.
Olint-for-life
TheBoom,
I agree that books can and are often cooked by firms even when they know they are being audited. I owned Enron stock and was part of a class action suit against the company, where we recovered some of our money. If OLINT fails, there can be no recovery of funds by its members. On that basis, I would much rather invest in an organization that is being audited, with some transparency, than in one that is not. Even after getting burned by Enron, I continue to invest in publicly traded companies, because the odds are still in my favor.
We are experiencing some of the biggest failures right now in the U.S., but I will continue to invest because there will always be winners and losers even in a bad market. We just had another big mortgage banker failed on Friday – IndyMac. And we have plenty more to come, but in most of these cases the Fed will jump in and rescue some of them. This could never be the case if/when you remain unregulated. No one can dispute this.
I strongly believe that the U.S. is heading into a “depression” and we will see some of the biggest corporate failures this country has ever seen. OLINT’s issues are mild in comparison to what we will see in the coming months / years in the States. But even during these troubled times, there will be buying opportunities even for the small man. The information age has leveled the playing field. This is especially true for the FOREX market where we can short the USD against some of the major currencies, like AUD, EUR, and even CAD. But we must understand the risk, and know when to preserve our profits. Profiting big cannot be consistently achieved in the FOREX market, so we must know when to stay away from it. Greed will always cause us to want more and then it turns in big losses.
I also have invested in Jamaica even though I have been away for many years. I saw the Spaniards investing and did not want to be left out, so I invested in real property. I will actually be in Jamaica next week and again in November to meet with a consortium of investors.
My only thing with OLINT is transparency. But I commend all of you OLINT supporters on the way you trust in the man. I sincerely hope / pray that he [DS] comes through for the club.
PIPSologist
All of this stuff about banks in the US is just a smoke screen designed to give Olint more time to spread their misinformation so that they have more time to disappear with our money.
It’s this simple.
Scenario # 1 Olint has the money which has been credited to our accounts.
Olint trades forex (supposedly). That is a very very liquid asset. If Olint has the money then US banks liquidity problems could interfere with its ability to withdraw the types of sums which Olint is supposedly trying to withdraw. BUT THE DELAY WOULD NOT LAST FOR SIX MONTHS. Banks have facilities where they can go to address liquidity problems like that. Besides, THAT IS NOT THE STORY THEY ARE GIVING US.
Scenario # 2. Olint does not have the money, and is buying time to do whatever. (run away, trade their way out of the problem, whatever).
Then spread these stories about a series of short term problems. Ask yourself HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THE STORIES CHANGED? How many times have the dates changed? How many times has the bogey man changed? How many times have promised communications failed to materialize? How many times have promises been missed? They are clearly involved in a time buying exercise.
The question is what for?
It is a failed Ponzi…. I keep saying, this is the EXACT same path Cash Plus and Higgins Warner have gone through…. Yes, Mr. Smith is a christian, yes Mr. Smith used to trade, yes people may have seen his trading screens or whatever, yes it MAY have started out as a small club with legitimate trading taking place…. but the facts NOW are making it appear to be a failing ponzi.
What I don’t understand is why not just come clean at this point. Why not just confess, or even make up a credible lie. Why keep trying to string people along?
It appears there will not be much to discuss until OLINT does issue a statement, or, “investors” begin to receive funds / payments.
I have been perusing entries on this blog for the past few days and objectively speaking, I think it is hard to “bat for” OLINT given what has occurred. I have never put my money in any sort of FX trading scheme and I have tried to dissuade friends / family from putting anything into OLINT.
I believe if they were truly intent of proving themselves to be legit, they would stop accepting payments and publicly state that all funds will be returned, then proceed to do the same. I think that would answer many critics. Hopefully, people are wise enough to at least stop pouring any additional funds into this scheme.
p.s. Why have there been no news stories on this in the Observer or Gleaner (“mainstream media” if you will)? Surely the level of anxiety being expressed by persons (based on the reports on Nationwide News) warrants some additional publicity…..no?
It will be interesting to see whether they answer the phones at Braemar Avenue on Monday morning.
jd32
I think the newspapers have avoided stories because there are very little FACTS and a LOT of speculation.
jd32;
An excellent person to address that question to is Mark Wignal of the Observer who has written several columns on Olint. He has been able to get information from Olint in the past.
His email address is observemark@gmail.com.
very limited information, so more speculation. which can buy DS more time. over the other banks is sure that is NCB is holding up the money. they never ask themselves, why doesn’t he go to another bank, if it is NCB that is holding him up.
the Answer is that all banks will not move a dime until they can verify the source of funds. So we are wasting time blaming the banks. we should be encouraging DS to provide the source of funds to the banks.
This excuse should not hold for the investors outside of Jamaica, since NCB would not be their problem.
Mark Wignal has no shame. he is one of the irresponsible media personell who had pom poms in his hand cheering David Smith along. He is a sorry excuse for a journalist. A journalist should investigate things, he had not seen any evidence that David smith was making profits but was writing favourable articles about him.
But I am not surprised these are the types of idiotic journalist we have in Jamaica
Also if Super Dave is having problems with NCB (which I strongly doubt) he should not have problems paying oversease investors especially the so called feeder clubs. The feeders still have not gotten any money. Blame the banks is simply another BS excuse.
By the way where is DS and WS, didn’t they have a commitment for the end of the week, not even the decency and respect to say anything? Or is it maybe they have ran out of excuses.
theCynic and jd32,
Your comments and feedback are right on the money. I agree with all your points.
I am convinced that DS started off as a FOREX trader and had a couple bad trades that wiped him out. He panicked as most (90%) of the FOREX traders do, try to make up the losses in a few big trade and lost most of the money.
On Sunday, January 19th, 2008 the U.S. Fed surprised the world by cutting interest rate by 25-basis points ahead of the regularly scheduled meeting. This was never done on a Sunday before. At the same time the Fed announced a bailout of Bear Sterns. This surprise move spooked the markets, and caused a ripple effect throughout financial markets world-wide. The Asian markets immediately responded by dropping precipitously.
Most FOREX accounts world-wide got wiped out or severely damaged over this week, and this is when I believe OLINT got wiped out — mid to late January 2008. Like everybody else on this blog, this is all speculation on my part and just my opinion.
When did the payment issues start with OLINT?
PIPSologist
Lets assume that this is what happened. My anger at him is in him not coming clean at that time. Instead he allowed us to continue believing that our funds were there and we acted accordingly.
Some people who were carrying funds for others borrowed money, counting on their Olint accounts to “return to normal” at the end of May, digging a deeper hole that now it is going to be be difficult to climb out of.
Pipsologist
You have great faith. Olint turned into a ponzi many years ago. It has nothing to do with fed cuts.
Olint ran into problems after the christmas holidays when the fsc ruled against them and NCB threatened to close the accounts.
That sent jitters through Jamaica and most people sent in encashment requests. So throughout the first 2-3 weeks of January there were massive withdrawals.
They did not have alot of cash on hand and when the withdrawals were finished it left them on the verge of bankrupcy.
Whether people want to believe or not that is the simple answer.
Jason, if you have poof of this, please share.
PIPSologist & Jason,
both your theories (and thats all they are to ME at this point, since neither of you have provided proof) could both be true. I tend to lean towards Jason’s theory though. Reason being MANY people i know made good profits in January, so it is entirely possible to come out ahead of the crowd during that period.
But I am still puzzled as to WHY Mr. Smith would continue the charade for close to 7 months after? Why continue to report profits (and in on month as high as 16%+) instead of just coming clean at that point and assembling a legal team to deal with the consequences? Surely he must know that the game cannot go on for longer. and the longer he plays the game (assuming it is a failed ponzi) the darker the end picture he paints for himself and his family and the people involved….
I have spoken to people who run funds feeding off Mr. Smith’s fund, and these people also seem to be SO convinced that money IS coming. I’ve heard the following:
1. Oanda promised to send the money verbally, but they didnt send it on time. Then when they DID send it (which they have now) it takes time to get to local accounts.
2. Mr. Lee Chin is holding up the process in order to further crush the credibility of Mr. Smith and hence crush his company. And as such the BOJ will or is planning to intervene in order to solve the issue.
3. Oanda is stalling them out in order to make more interest off the massive amounts which have been requested. For each day Oanda holds 200+ mln they can accumulate massive amounts of interest.
4. The money is here and is in the accounts and the payment list will be sent on on saturday gone… now changed to monday.
I could go on…. but you get the picture. This is different people with different stories… WHERE do these stories come from? Are Wayne, David and team planting the seeds of these stories themselves???
And as it pertains to the meeting that was held with the ‘big boys’ what was the REAL purpose of this meeting. I was told that they chose the most ‘influential’ people in the club and invited them to this meeting. Why? Why not reveal the information to everybody???
And on a side note… has anybody ever noticed that just like with cash plus, VERY FEW people work in the Olint offices for a significant period of time… the turnover rate seems VERY high….. yes there are a few people who have been there 1+ years.. but otherwise people seem to stay for a few months and then move on….
CJ , Along with the massive circumstantial evidence which I have stated over and over, dodging audits, dodging regulators, extra ordinary gains, given the order to not expand the club through new members, but right after encouraging piggybacking so money could continue to flow, con-artist type PR stunts, there is one thing that cannot lie the financial community in Ja is quite small. All I can say is follow the money.
Jason,
give it to me straight like a shot of tequila. The money is gone….
And along with that shot… try to explain to me.. WHY IN THE WORLD does he and those around him persist with the charade?!?!
The Cynic,
No one knows what he has outside of Jamaica, but based the history of other ponzi schemes when they start having payment problems there is usually very little money left. I suspect investors will be lucky if they get back 10 cents on the dollar.
They are keeping up the charade because that is what operators of ponzi.s do. They attempt to buy more time. Look a couple of days before Carlos Hill was arrested he put out a full page ad int he gleaner with a payment schedule, he knew fully well he did not have the money.
Can I explain the actions of these folks…Nope
I suspect David Smith cannot return to Jamaica as he will be arrested for fraud.
Also he has alot of money for people who put there trust in him, these people really trusted him deeply and put there faith in him, they will more than likely feel betrayed and Jamaica is a serious place that don’t play around with there money.
Jason,
9/10 of those people are just blowing smoke. Mr. Hill is still safe and sound at his home….I’m sure occasionally he may get a threat, but for the most part He’s safe and sound, probably juggling around his money, ensuring that IF he serves ANY PRISON TIME AT ALL, when he gets out he still has enough to live in the lap of luxury…..
It is this thought, coupled with the thought that the big people at the top who have gotten their money already (is an OASIS in the desert COOL ;)), that benefited the most…Wealth has been transferred, and the gap between rich and poor has been widened to include more of the middle class…
Do you remember near the end when Cash Plush started advertising it would start paying as much as 18% per month on new money? Perhaps Olint should run a promotion offering to double every dollar sent into the new wiring instructions. That should get things going again. What do you think Super Dave?
This may be my final post but if you check the other Blog and read what Rich1 says (#271 I think) he best describes the facts at this moment. The other blog will come to an end shortly when all is revealed. It is a very sad situation but as has been said many many times the script has been playing out like a movie remake. GAME OVER. The truth will be out shortly because there are no more excuses. As was said sometimes things happen you didn’t intend but when it does the best thing to do is come clean. That didn’t happen way back then but will happen now. The longer you take.. the worst it becomes.
Unfortunately in blogging folks sometimes go off on a tangent and start name calling and then the other person responds and it can go down hill… sometimes people take stuff personal, which is not meant to be… Then depending on individual bias folks start accusing one side of being the problem… Look at Hermes… the first sentence in my 1st or 2nd response to him stated out by saying you are obviously educated… his response included comments like you are ignorant etc… then you are an idiot etc…
Hermes has been engaged in what can objectively be called intellectual masturbation… intellectual self pleasure. Notice how he likes to say who he is flogging or how he is winning or how others cannot respond to his points, or how they are intellectually dishonest etc… All of this indicates that his posts are meant for self pleasure, not enlightenment. He gets a kick out of feeling that his is winning, delusional or not.
Consider this… I know people who did not invest in any of the UFOs and they do not have a completed primary school education… When they heard the average rate of return of 10 to 20 % per month their response was of the form… bwoy me nuh tink nuthen can go so… These folks had common sense.
Consider Hermes intellectual response which lacks real world common sense. He chooses to look at disclaimers and warnings… Warnings that effectively are saying, if you invest it is possible to lose all your investment. In his intellectual world he interprets this to mean… Each person should set aside a portion of their resources… this portion should be designated as, “money I can afford to lose”… it is then ok to invest this money with ponzi schemes. Much of life is about how you choose to interpret things; it can lead to success or failure.
Now ask yourself when it comes to the UFOs and arriving at a conclusion on whether it is, or was wise to invest… who is smarter? The person without a elementary school diploma or the person with university degrees? Objectively can you see why the term there is no fool like an educated fool originated? Some folks exercise no common sense so the real world is never factored into their academic analysis.
Here is an exchange I had on another blog. Now lest you believe Hermes that I do not know what I am talking about, note that despite my disclaimer I was spot on. 🙂 Note the subsequent decline of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman, Indymac and the other financial stocks.
However many folks would rather listen to people like Hermes because their ideas promise quick riches. This is what led to so many prior and pending heartaches with these UFOs.
“jahbilly Says: June 23rd, 2008 at 9:51 am
NoCotec Is it too early to get into the financials? MF Global looks awfully cheap here.
NoCotec Says: June 24th, 2008 at 11:41 am
…Before I state my opinion I need to give you a little background. I am a long term investor in the mold of Buffet. I normally only purchase investments that I expect to hold for at least 10 years and usually much longer. I only hold a small amount of individual stocks. In my opinion, to hold an investment portfolio of mainly stocks requires a full time investor. One needs about 30 or so stocks to be properly diversified and one must give attention to quarterly statements and other news on each company. I own mainly low cost Mutual Funds which in most cases I have held in excess of 10 years.
I state my investing profile so that you can have a basis for my opinion as it is tailored by my attitude to investing. Your profile may be different so take what you can from my opinions.
I do not believe the Financials have hit bottom but of course I do not have a crystal ball. However I believe as a group they are cheap. Some companies are priced below book value. Buffet likes to say, you can buy a Dollar for 80 cents. I have started to buy a Mutual Fund that is a Financials Sector Fund. This is a fund diversified across the financial sector.
For me I am not concerned whether the Financials have hit bottom as I dollar cost average when buying a fund like this. By the way I do not normally hold more than 5 % of my portfolio in any non diversified fund like a sector fund such as this. Also as I said I am not against owning specific stocks but I do not have the time to research on a continuing basis as much as is needed. Remember individual stocks that appear cheap can be a great buy or be like catching a falling dagger like Bear Stearns. A mutual fund with a portfolio of such companies may not return as much as an individual stock but is less risky.
My profile is that I believe in getting rich over time not by swinging for the fence on one ball… sort of a Chanderpaul… you can get to be one of the best by just not giving away your wicket (each time you lose you have to start rebuilding the average from way back) … the runs will accumulate and you will end your career better than 95% of the others.
At least we know he has a Jet, and I heard of him buying 2 or 3 office buildings in the Bahamas. Once again this is all hearses. Hopefully these assets could be liquidated so that his members can get some of their money back.
Here is an interesting question — has anyone interviewed or spoken to one of his ex-employees to see what the operations was/is like? With his high turnover rate, it would be interesting to hear what they would have to say.
Nominations are now open for the “Pantheon of Jamaican Financial Gurus”. Existing members are:
Paul Chen Young
Don Crawford
Delroy Lindsay
The entire Mutual Life Board
Esmie Jones (remember her – The “original”, she led the way and showed was was possible !)
Max Higgins
Carlos Hill
Nominees are:
David Smith
Ingrid Loiten
Steve Palmer
Neil Lewis
Am I forgetting anyone ? 🙂
Ricky Azan?
DaveSin
My mistake. RA is already a member !
Guys
I am tired of this blogging, so this should be my last contribution to these blogs.
Money is in fact at NCB and it should be released sometime this week.
This is not rumour, but politics is at play.
To all bloggers, both pro-Olinters and anti-Olinters, thanks for the exchange. We may not agree on issues, but it does not excuse any of us, bar none, from being civil and respectful to each other.
Hermes,
I wish to single you out in particular to say thanks. I think your contribution to the blog discussions in recent days lifted the standard, and may have resulted in the increase Blog Statistics over the past two weeks, which currently stands at 90705 at the time of this posting. This is an approximate tripling of the blog hits to date when it was at 34000+ some 2+ weeks ago when I started participating.
InvestForLife
Thanks for facilitating these discussions, although I was rather disappointed to know that by your own admission, that you started this blog site because of your disbelief in these unregulated investment schemes, which Olint is a part of. Personally, I was hoping that your position would be neutral so that we could look to you for a sense of objectiveness. You will notice that I took pleasure in keeping bloggers and readers updated of the blog statistics from time to time, and openly congratulated you for these successes. But my heart sank when you admitted bias. Such is life.
I thought that you would have left the bias discussions to us bloggers, allowing us in one form or another of defend our biases with facts where relevant.
Nevertheless, thanks again to each and everyone of you.
Good bye and take care.
Olint-for-life
OFL is bailing out !!
Now I’m REALLY worried. I guess he’s on the plane with DS to Timbuktu
OFL, I can also confirm funds are there. AMAZING, I heard last night. The employee is fearing for their life though. On holiday over the weekend abroad I gather. NASTY business. I have no funds with OLINT and I was told. Good luck to all who do.
PIPS,
I have attempted to speak to current employees, ex employees, people who claim to be CLOSE FRIENDS, and people who RUN funds of his fund….
in ALL cases ,they have all demonstrated 100% loyalty and faith in David. They have EXPLICITLY said, just give him time, they have seen proof, David is a good man, he is a christian, they do not believe it is a ponzi..etc etc. They have admitted that his operations are poor, and the customer service/communication NEEDS significant improvement…but It is a legitimate business.
As it pertains to their operations. From the little i’ve gathered. The staff is surprisingly not very well informed of what is going on. Very often different people are told different things at different times. (hence the reason if you call the office twice, you will get 2 different responses at to why payments are late)…. 90% of the staff hired are family or friends…
In the case of Olint, no news is bad news. Except for folks experiencing cognitive dissonance it should be clear that Olint does not have the money to meet all requests. Remember the schedule that should have started for the beginning of June? Some people got some money, very small percentage. If the subsequent excuses are to be believed, where did that money come from?
This is likely to be pattern going forward… that is unless the legal authorities bring action… or the pending lawsuits force everything to a head.
Gradually the most ardent supporters will begin to stop blogging. Remember you can only keep promising for so long that things are ok or are going to be ok. After a while these promises become meaningless to even the most dedicated believers.
the cynic I love your optimism but the part that scares me is the christian part. Lots of people like jimmy swaggert, popes and the great crusade etc committed crimes in the name of “God”. Religion has no place in business…when he was collecting our money did he ask us to pray for him….did he care if were jews..gentile..christian or muslim..So please my friend do not talk about him being a christian man thats between him and GOD….not man.
He owes man money not GOD……Leave religion for sunday or in his private thoughts or with his close freinds and family….Talk about weh di money deh…thats the billion dollar question that needs to be answered….
CATD,
you misunderstand my post… i was simply restating what I’ve been told… I could not care less what religion if any Mr. Smith is affiliated with…
Show me the money, or do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail
The sequence of events that is now being placed out is strikingly similar to CashPlus/HW.
Payments schedules that are missed consistently
New payments dates
The blame game.
News that money is here and there.
No sightings of the money. UFO’s 🙂
The ardent supporters when they come to the realization that there will be no money simply stop blogging and disappear.
nocotec
the sad thing is this lawsuit gonna be tricky based on what the peica lawyer weh mi have inna FL seh.
DS Lives in TCI…..company mi nuh weh it register….
I will be speaking a commodity’s expert lawyer next week…..I will keep you guys posted on how that turn out.
OFL:
Bwoy, given the fact that the money is at NCB, I would think you would at least stick around until Friday of this week to poke fund at the anti-olinters. How you get tire so easy…stick it out mon. We antites love when supporters tell us…WE TOLD YOU SO!
Now mi understand how Ricky Azan say he was going to make back the money to pay all his investors. My source tell me that RA is undercover as “Floridian” on the #4 bus. I guess he was looking for his Olint money to pay back the investors their $45+ Mill. But mi hear sey him now have a drinking problem.
We need to start a network to monitor DS and WS movement….Tito we need your services…Lol…Di man have jet and can easily slip out TCI without us knowing.
Not if you have the tail # …
Speaking of Jets.
What does HW/CH & DS have in common.
They all have a love affair with privates jets.
CH – loves to rent and fly around in private jets
HW- Just loves private jets.
DS- Stepped it up a notch, he was reported to have bought himself one.
Why the love affair – Well they can just fly away into the sunset without many of us even knowing.
OFL, Sorry to see you go. Despite our disagreements, we appreciate your contribution and hope that you will be back.
jays that funny….lol but we cannot let him get away with it. ….This blog needs to move to the next level….how do we get these men who taken people money…thats the challenge…
This is off topic but Usian Bolt just ran 19.67 in Athens Greece, which is a world leading time and a New Jamaican record. This beats the previous record of 19.75 !!
You go Bolt. 🙂
At least some positive news for Jamaica amidst the gloom in the financiall world
U mean 9.67 right?
My bad this was the 200m. Congrats to him.
catd,
You misunderstood what theCynic said in his post. TheCynic was only writing back what he has heard from OLINT’s employees.
I am also very surprised to see Olint-for-Life leaving the blog. This is usually the case when the diehards give up.
PIPSologist
I actually enjoyed the exchange with Olint-for-Life but unfortunately it appears he was really Olint-Until-The-Money-Stop. 🙂
Sources say no money came into Olint’s local bank, and thats a fact OFL. When will the truth come out?
In perusing the blogs have you noticed how much prayer and call for prayer is being posted… even DS is calling for prayer… this prayer is essentially asking God to make things ok, let payments resume.
Did these folks stop to think that this may be God’s desired outcome… that he may be using the UFO investors as a lesson to all of us… that this is what will happen to you if you let greed overcome your judgment.
To add to nocetec comment, it may also be God’s way of saying for us to have faith and trust in Him (God) and not in any man. David was like a god to many of his followers. He was the savior for many people…it was almost cultic.
It was so easy to get caught up in the hype of the club when you saw those fantastic returns on a monthly basis. I maintained my position with many of my friends who joined the club that a double-digit or near double-digit returns could not be sustainable on a long-term basis. Something was behind these returns.
I have been told D will be making a video statement on the O website today, Sunday. Addressing all of the issues as well as 2 ultimate choices for members to make. Unfortunately we do not yet know what those choices will be but we can only speculate. Due to O’s patterns I would not bet this will be available today, but a personal communication such as this is overdue and certainly wecome.
LOL, another day, another promise!
What the heck! Why not?
i wonder if any of the employees will turn up for work tomorrow, or if they still located at braemar? they probably pack up and gone like the other one..wh
By de wey. Mi ave a flat bridge to sell yu! Yu can charge a toll and such!
What is de sense of having employees at Braemar for the last several months? It must be just to answer the phone an tell stories. R they still getting paid?
worried,
why WOULDN’T the employees turn up tomorrow from work? What is the difference between tomorrow and last week Friday? 99% of the people that go to the Office will be fed a story (the more you insist on info. the more elaborate the story), and then they will walk away accepting and hoping the story is valid.
This is the point in the script where Mr. Smith an co. either get arrested, or become VERY VERY difficult to find.
The cynic I just got back from sessions with some mormons trying to convert me….Actually you would think I would run them but I entertain them and even invite them over for dinner….I like the discussion on religion and debate them ….
Cynic my dear I misread your statement and I want to make an apology.
OFL
I just came from the other blog and OFL stated that this blog is owned by a company in Ca aand is gathering info to discredit O.
If this is ture let me know…Davesin Investor for life etc.
Need answers.
Taken from
http://invest4life.wordpress.com/investment-clubs/#comment-9609
Olint-for-life Says:
July 13, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Guys
What I am going to say applies to myself, RedP, Dehustle, and D_Silver_Lining mostly.
Floridian, it looks like I have to include you too, and any other who is “in the know”.
I feel obliged to tell you why I will no longer be posting on this and on the investforlife blog any more. So please pay attention.
My brother called me earlier today from the States to inform me that we who support Olint are our worst enemies. Those of us like myself, who wants to provide assurance to our fellow club members, get ahead of ourselves and give up Olint’s private and confidential business. He said that what we don’t realise is, all our blog postings are being harvested by people unknown to us, who will use the information gathered as they deemed appropriate to them.
What was a shocker, was when he said that a good friend of his, who works for a large Internet company in the US, did some investigation on these blog sites, how he did that I don’t know.
However, he said that the “investforlife” blog is registered to a company in Canada and is most likely working for people there to get information from Olint’s club members. Some of the bloggers there are plant who challenge us and as a result, we defend the club by stating certain private things that we shouldn’t. He said if we didn’t realise how of late, the “bank” seems to know what Olint is going to do before hand, and that we should accept some of the blame because we are providing that information to them.
So he said that if we post general non-specific information about the club, that won’t be a problem. But like right now when everybody is nervous about their money, and is likely to “investigate from our sources” and come to these blogs to post every damn thing that we find out, then that is where we are doing more harm to ourselves than we realise.
He said that is why we are probably being starved of information by Olint, because we would come here to blog and boast about it.
Interestingly, he didn’t give me any info about this blog that we are on.
That is all, and this is my FINAL POST.
Keep the faith.
Olint-for-life
What is the “other site” and/or “#4 bus” constantly referenced?
Catd:
Total nonsense. Catd, I guess you are new to the whole UFO blogging. When you have some time, go over to old cashplusinvestment site and you will see guys like JohnDoe, NoCotec, DaveSin, Jason, Robin Irie, et. al. Additionally, we have been on different side of many issues on that site 🙂
Maybe if they did not kick us off their #4 bus then they might not be a need for this site. A lot of the people on this blog where kick off their bus. They say, necessity is the mother of inventions…a so eh go?
Plus, seriously, whatever is said on this site is readily available elsewhere, including their site!
http://cashplusinvestment.com/comments/comment-page-1/#comments
jd32, click on the link in catd post above and it will take you to their site.
OFL is funny as heck. Did he really post that crap? Now this blog is responsible for them not being paid since January? I was wondering when it would get to that. They have all descended into madness over on that bus. Mr. Smith will you please put them out of their misery already.
OFL, with all due respect, what a bunch of crock!
All we want is our money. Telling us when we will get it should be no great secret. WHAT IS HE HIDING?
Olint’s best defense against these shadowy forces aligned against it, is to transform itself into a legitimate, transparent organization. It’s that simple.
With the law and overwhelming public/political support on David’s side, even Michael Lee Chin would not be able to touch him. He would be more powerful than Michael Lee Chin. Does he not see that?
I actually think that other blog is run by Olint. It has the same pattyshop management style.
Posts disappear, and people get kicked off for no reason.
O Lint for Life has run out of lies all the crap about spying taking place is just a smoke screen to make his escape. How can one person be so devious !!
Folks, remember he called himself OLINT-for-life. What else can you expect ?
Unfortunate that we have no more OLINT backers posting. Hermes seems to have left the scene too.
What a hell tomorrow (one way or the other). Or will it go the way of every other rip-off that has gone before ?
Invest for life, if they would spend their time and energy tracking down David and Wayne Smith who have my money, now that would be important.
Who cares who owns this site? How does that prevent me from getting my money from David Smith? What does that have to do with Olint’s inability to pay?
Personal information of people on this blog are being posted on the other blog. Do any of the people whose privacy they are violating have their money?
Why doesn’t Kevin remove those posts? People are allowed to make scurrilous allegations about MLC being involved in illegal activity without a shred of evidence and Kevin does not delete those posts or ban those people, but if you ever dare question the stories that are being fed to us by Olint, they kick people off.
Now they have stooped to a new low. SHAME!.
DO ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE YOU ARE NAMING HAVE YOUR MONEY AND ARE REFUSING TO FACE YOU? WHY DON’T YOU TRACK DOWN THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE OUR MONEY AND ARE HIDING FROM US?
Re: Operators/Ownership of this site.
Investforlife categorically states that OFL, his brother and friend are 100% wrong.
As diligent investors I ask that you pay attention and note carefully the following details:
1. http://investforlife.com is NOT the same as https://investforlife.wordpress.com
2. http://investforlife.com is NOT related to or affiliated to https://investforlife.wordpress.com
Re: Affiliation or relationship to Micheal Lee Chin.
Investforlife categorically states that this site/operators are not affiliated to or related to Micheal Lee Chin.
Brief History
This site was started as a result of users being blocked from posting on another site. When our contrary views were not welcomed, posts would simply be deleted and our usernames blocked and prevented further posting. Many users on this blog are here because their contrary views are not welcomed elsewhere.
One striking example stands out is the case of TCI FX. When we posted that TCI FX had returned a loss of April we were accused of spreading lies and propaganda and the posts where promptly deleted. When we pointed out that David Smith was a Director of the said TCI FX we were accused by some of being misinformed and the post deleted. That was a pivotal point as it became very evident that information was deliberately & clearly being suppressed.
We were advised to start our own blog and that is exactly what we did. We took their advice and started our own blog. We have posted information available to us on many UFOs and other cases from around the world. The site was setup around May 1, 2008, although we officially started posting on May 16, 2008.
Free Expressions
We adopted a view that this site would allow persons to post freely and that all views would be welcomed. The only exception being cases highlighted in our rules.
Investforlife would like to respectfully ask that users focus on the issues on hand and avoid falling victim to baseless conspiracy theories and wild speculation. We thank those continue to read the information provided and participate by posting comments. We continue to welcome and appreciate your feedback.
Please yuh lucky yuh a ansah dem wid dem pattyshop blog!
None of that has anything to do with why we are not getting paid. That is the issue at hand.
Another tactic when they don’t have your money, deflect attention to a made up controversy.
I and others I know have gotten several wires from Olint over the years and none of them have ever originated from Jamaica. Period. Why is it that suddenly now the funds need to go to Jamaica?
This site has Canadian connections, now i understand why lol, story come to bump
INVESTFORLIFE.COM
142-757 W. Hastings St., Suite #777
Vancouver, BC
Canada V6C 1A1
Phone: +1 (604) 484-4206
come on…anyone can see that investforlife.com and investforlife.wordpress.com are 2 different websites. I am a olint supporter but i can say that posting the information about investforlife.com and trying to make a link is wrong. I am a pro olint person and think this website is a bit biased but at same time i am just being fair. That connection is false
Oneil – not sure I understand your post, but go to http://www.investforlife.com and see where you end up 🙂
Yezzirr – Olint-for-life posted this info on the other blog to “prove” that this blog was setup by MLC. 🙂
More smoke screen stuff.
this blog was on cvm tonight
Olintforlife if thats why u will stop posting come back as we need u to defend out olint to us olint supporters as u have the time and energy to take them on..lol…
anywayzz…cvm sucks if you goin use a blog as your news and source of news. Thats why i only tek in tvj.
Oneil,
Come on why don’t you spend your time and energy trying to track down DS and the money that has “supposedly” been in Kingston since last Friday.
This site has provided more information to all Olint supporters than any other blog site.
The blog has provided breaking news, which you and other would not have been able to access without the help of this blog.
Story cum to bump for real, as now there is no longer any sightings of the cash.
Must have been a UFO.!!
Oneil. That is a different website. Completely different domain name. LOL
Jay which one are you Adrian LC or Jason A.? So this is what the wealthy do with their time… lol just cool…
*** Correction ***
Oneil;
If your brother is in IT then he must be unemployed.
http://www.investforlife.com is a ‘parked’ domain held currently by a domain registration company.
https://investforlife.wordpress.com is not an independent web site, but rather a blog ‘investforlife’ which was registered on the wordpress.com blog web site.
See the difference? They have nothing in common except part of their name.
Incidentally, both ‘invest4life’ and ‘investforlife’ use the same domain name wordpress.com, so they would be registered to the same person.
Majid,
There you go.
Failure to do proper research leads to a very bad decisions making process. 🙂
Their one and only scoop lasted a good 20 minutes before it was debunked.
That #4 bus seems to be going over the cliff just like Olint.
Poor ting dem. Mi feel sorry fi dem. LOL
CJ – Can’t LOL, mi pon de bus 😦
That is the problem with the other site. They have run off anyone from that site who challenges the popular / majority view. So now someone posts some nonsense like confusing http://www.investforlife.com and https://investforlife.wordpress.com, and there is no one on the blog who felt comfortable to say wait, what you are saying is incorrect. Those are two completely different sites with nothing in common. That my dear Kevin is the value of an open exchange of ideas in which all views are heard and even welcomed.
Now you all look , ummm, not so smart?
On a serious note Oniel, perhaps your brother can track down David and Wayne Smith? They have my money.
If you have money in Olint or any of its feeder clubs, if you were not already worried with the prevalence of conspiracy theories from people like Olint-for-Life you should be really really worried about now. If you read or catch up on the blogs regularly, you will know that a few people like OFL seem to have inside contacts.
When these people start to abandon blogging and post conspiracy theories as the new official line and the new updates… it means you are now in the realm where the sign is like that over the gates of hell… Abandon hope all ye who have money in here.
I know how this blog started and why… when the insiders or near insiders start posting hogwash like OFL and the bank conspiracy theories… and doing nothing significant but calling for prayer… times are desperate indeed… at best expect only a trickle of money to pay a few people or a percentage of amounts.
If you have money in these schemes, may God help you because only a greater power can at this point.
At this point in time even diehard Olint supporters have virtually given up hope.
I however find it hard to believe that the money have simply disappeared.
Lets face it, Olint has been collecting none stop, through the many feeder clubs since Jan 2008 and has paid out only a little money during this period.
It means therefore than either :
(a) A large portion of funds were paid to some “big” investors.
(b) Olint suffered some catastrophic losses early in the year(as alluded to by Notec) and dipped into the 80% reserve to try and make up losses and continued to lose, as shown in the TCFIX account.
(c) The funds that he has to make some payments has been frozen by the authorities.
So what is next for Olint and what can its investors do going forward.
1. Olint needs to come forward and speak truthfully.
2. Olint needs to prepare and have its financials audited by a reputable auditing firm.
3.Olint needs to bring in a receiver to clean up its operations and determine a payment plan for its investors.
4. Olint then needs to close its operations, re-think its primary objectives and create a new business plan one which offers realistic returns for those who choose to go back with him.
Nothing that DS says at this time can be believed as he has shown that despite his “christian” background, he has not lived up to peoples expectations of him.
What the receiver will show is that Olint really started out as forex trading club, but quickly changed into something else, and has simply followed the path that so many forex trading companies have been before.
If Olint losses were genuine ie he lost money trading people could understand and some could accept that.
What Olint seemed to have done however is to continue post monthly gains in the hope of getting more cash in, and using some to pay off while the remaining to trade.
Olint supporters should get together and have a receiver brought into the company to ensure that their is some transparency in the disbursment process.
They should petition the TCI FSC to issue a cease and desist order against Olint and get a court order to prevent any further transfer of Olints assets and also those of its principals.
I encourage all Olint supporters to move very fast, as the “bigones” are lining up to make sure that they take ALL that is theirs(principal) plus what is yours as ( “earned interest payments”).
I know I will come under fire for this, however I think its the right move and time is not on the side of the investors.
Now David Smith himself is referring to those conspiracy theories. Olint members, check your email. It’s not good news.
Jay:
I agree with your analysis. BUT there is one big problem:
Who has oversight of Olint?
Can some answer some of these key questions?
(1) Does anyone on this site know how many employees Olint has?
(2) How many of these employees are located in TCI and in Jamaica, respectively?
(3) Does Olint have a designated accounting department?
(4) Do they have an IT department?
(5) Do they have a “compliance/regulatory” department?
(6) Apart from the smith brothers, who are the other major players in the Olint organization?
(7) Has anyone visited their TCI office?
(8) Apart from Olint TCI FX, is Olint per se “legally” registered/licensed in TCI or even required to be registered/licensed?
(9) Are the Smith brothers the ones doing the trading, money management (inflow/outflow)?
(10) Is DS a legal resident of TCI and if so, what are their requirements for becoming a resident?
(11) Does Olint have a registered Agent (designated person/entity to receive legal documents)?
(12) Bottom line: Who/What is Olint?
Olint is a “registered (incorporated?)” company in Jamaica (maybe in TCI as well). However, given the fact that they were issued a cease-and-desist order, they are technically not supposed to be conducting business in Jamaica. So, Jamaica has no control over Olint. Who would appoint a receiver, if required? My take is that Olint might be operating in “no man’s land”.
It’s interesting that the NCB case (closure of accounts) is still pending; awaiting the court’s ruling for months now. Why?
What would happen if the courts rule this week that NCB can close Olint’s bank account(s)?
What would happen if the FSC hold on to any wired funds and demand that all local account holders are paid back in full from these proceeds?
Why do DS need to wire the funds to Jamaica any way? Is he having other banking problems elsewhere? Hmmmm…
Is someone going to post that email (verbatim) in its entirety?
So many things wrong with that email, but my ethics say that when someone sends an email and request that the contents remain confidential, that the correct thing to do is to honor that request.
cj that email seems to have been sent to a select few..It not in my email.
CJ, do you REALLY think that the contents of that e-mail is going to remain confidential for more than an hour? Two people cannot keep a secret, especially when one of them is bad as hell that he is not getting paid!!!!! Here is the thing, why is DS requesting confidentiality all of sudden? It will be leaked any time now.
@ Catd.
don’t be hypocritical now, don’t post the email, because you do not want to, or there is a thread of hopefulness, in all of us, but pretty much all the communications that have been posted before were ‘private’.
We will talk around the email and spread further speculation, for instance, they have closed the customer service because of bomb threats.
NCB has gotten bom threats time and time again, and they have never closed. ( they may close for two hours and sweep the place or increase security , but they never lock shop because of it). we are not a society that do bombs, we do guns a lot, but not bombs.
They need to increase security, scan people if they have to, but to lock office and send an email reeks of HIGGINS WARNER.
Probably a new thread should be started with the email
Jay, ‘There you go.
Failure to do proper research leads to a very bad decisions making process. ‘ AHAHH true…
Max Higgins is a great teacher.
Stategy number two is to blame the investors, so now if you post the email, it is your fault why you did not get the money. No proof has been given, only don’t post the email ( which will get posted) and make matter worst,
David Smith has two great con men as mentors, Carlos Hill an and Max Higgins, between both of them, excuses can abound aplenty
now serious Kullcull I did not get one the last email from O was about NFA. the latest was not sent. Just double check to be sure.
I can’t let the fact that others will indulge in unethical behavior be my excuse for doing the same.
When others release it, it’s on them, not on me.
I don’t agree with the way Olint is being run, but releasing that email is not going to advance the cause of me getting my money one day sooner. It is not for me to decide what is confidential and what isn’t. It isn’t my company.
There is one part of that email that I expect to be in the local media before lunchtime.
cj when he pays me my money I will stop blogging
its on rjr news now
Olint has also shot themselves in the foot, the have closed their offices via email, what about the persons who just go there , without checking their email. they will go and raise cain and spread further speculation.
they cannot expect an email sent to > 3000 persons to be confidential, Pigs had to send to their customers as proof, a lot of Pigs are feeling heat. the customers will discuss with their friends. it is ridiculous. it is better to discuss the facts, than discuss around the issue.
why is there due diligence good enough for Oanda, but not for Jamaican banks. tey have also not explained why they cannot give to the overseas investors ( who do not reside in Jamaica)
@ CJ
you will eat of the meat, but you will not participate in the kill, you do not want to get your hands ‘dirty’, but if something comes of it, you will gladly share.
that is human behavior, because we all praise this blog for giving us factual ( confidential info however purloined)
It is your prerogative, so I cannot knock you for that , or I can, as is my prerogative.
Anyways, it is good that he used ‘confidential’ as it serves a a further method of DIVIDING the members. we are not getting our money and not sure of the way forward.
“The thrust of the litigation has been to discredit Olint as being in receipt of criminal property”
Litigation by whom?
Isn’t litigation the same as a lawsuit? In a litigation isn’t it the accuser who has to prove his case?
Did he mean prosecution?
“prudent for us to complete the appointment process so that we can determine with precision what is due to
members”
As an ACCA qualified accountant I can tell you that its not the role of auditors to determine what is owed to whom. The auditors role is do a series of test to deterime if the accounts prepared by “Management” presents a true and fair view.
hhmm
catd, you just convince me that you are truly conspiring to bring down Olint. This site gone to the dogs…
I am in the US in the past I was able to get my money…now why cannot I get my money. My bank will take the wire transfer.
But what irritate the most is dem nuh tell mi weh di money deh and when wi ago get it. MAD as hell.mi affi stop blog or mi pressure ago bus…lata folks…affi guh pan di grine.
catd you obviously don’t want to get your money, with you constant fear mongering. catd the turn-coat….
Majid:
How is post the e-mail (& fear monering, etc.) preventing people from getting their money? Its like the senator from New York said; you blaming the person who call 911 for the fire!!!
DaveSin, now that he has posted it, where is the money? It start flow yet? It didn’t make a difference, but it showed the integrity of the poster…
Hey CVM reporters, go do you job and stop get your ‘stories’ of this blog… DaveSin, you getting any kickbacks from CVM since is MLC own it? lol
Majid:
Are you mad at me? 😦
I truely think the appropriate question you should have asked is, despite the months of non-payment, why is it that an email posting on a blog would impact the delivery of funds to O’s clients? The fact is, prior to the posting of the email, no funds were flowing anyway…right?
Just to clarify. It doesn’t mean I buy the arguments in the email, I do not. It’s a simple basic courtesy. If you send me an email saying, bredrin, keep this under wraps, then I should honor that.
This is the first email where there was an explicit request for confidentiality, besides they are using the breach of confidentiality as an excuse for not communicating.
I DON”T WANT TO GIVE OLINT ANY EXCUSE FOR NOT COMMUNICATING.
Anyone saw last night news, CVM claims that it is olint investors blogging, how can dem use a blog as info for news, OUTRAGEOUS.
Little do they know they are wolves amoung us who dont want us to get our money.
@ CJ, but Olint knew that it would be published within the hour, so by their logic , they can now say they are not paying anybody, because info is posted and their business now mash up.
Max Higgins and May Daisy used the tatics of blaming their own investors for not paying them.
Fist blame banks, regulators, and when the end is near , BLAME OWN INVESTORS !!
DaveSin, lol, if I were mad at you, you would know it. So you post the email, hmm let me c… nope no money yet, so I guess you guys posting it didn’t change anything… Just remember, although its not the messengers fault, they will get the blame, lol…
These conspiracy theories r silly. If an unregulated entity (mil $ +) is required to do business with regulated entities it will obviously end up investigated and regulated. The idiotic comments also are: people of wealth and priveledge being forewarned early and getting out whole etc. This is total BS! As myself and friends are considered part of that group. I stand to loose the majority of my net worth and had no “warning” or inside info. The only person that comes to mind which has any influence and pereferance is JI. Even PB has a substantial amount to loose and is still invested. I feel The housing equity bubble example posted is a very probable theory.
I think the club will close and the majority will get 50% of their money back including the “society” folks within the next several months.
After all the legal and political issues in Ja., (FSC/bank litigation etc) y didn’t D wire the funds to a Beliz, Cayman or TCI bank and cut drafts/and checks in these banks then FedEx the checks from those banks? It would only seem like prudent insurance considering the large sum involved and controversy (send a few employees to the offshore bank to handle the paperwork and physical sending).
BTW I supposedly have 2 conflicting reports regarding the wire from 2 supposed top officials. One says money hit last week the other says it hasn’t.
So really we can only believe a Bank Draft/cashiers check in hand. In the interim our nerves and anxiety will continue to be strained.
Jagses:
Who is PB? We tend not to hold back anything on this site! Who is PB?
Majid:
You go by another name on the #4 bus…Right? Is it PEI? Admit it!
LATTEST NEWS PEOPLE OLINT BANKRUPT
Oneil where you get this info from? Bankrupt? What about the “supposed” US millions thats here?
Robc ,no money is here dont get confused.
I will give u more info later
DavSin, Sorry I don’t understand this “bus talk”. This is the only site I have made a comment. I have read the Housing Bubble example maybe on this site or another and repeated it here. I did not commit to divulging my sources as did the other bloggers and they have not done so. I will only say that PB was a jet owner and formery close to D and still has a lot invested. None of us have been 100% correct on information we have shared but at least some of us have come fairly close.
I would guess the wire has been intercepted and confiscated by the US Govt due to the NFA discoveries of Loiten et al. So any time line estimation of funds received would certainly be inconclusive and subject to far greater waiting if any…the majority suffering for the few bad apples.
Heard that all his assets have been froze in the TCI and he has been arrested?
Acually ‘im a been tek by de Alien dem up ina de ship dem!
To my knowledge D is currently in TCI with Govt officials trying to work out the freeing up of funds to cover encashments. He did not commit suicide last week or have a car accident driving into a wall etc. Radical rumours about him such as these are spread by child-like over stressed minds. I am only making an observation on how plebian the mob can be. But I must say I am still doubtful, but still have a glimmer of optimisn for my principal to be returned over time. The monthly returns at this point are meaningless to myself and many members. Money talks and BS walks.
Jagses please keep postin info is it comin from PB.
What a Stress this is all causing
antimoney laundering money from oanda
Click to access customer_agreement.pdf
Anti-Money Laundering.
(a) You acknowledge that due to anti-money laundering requirements operating in the United States,
as well as OANDA’s own internal anti-money laundering policies, OANDA may require you to
furnish further identification concerning the beneficial ownership of your Account and/or
information concerning the source of funds deposited to, or the destination of funds withdrawn
from, your Account before such deposit or withdrawal, as the case may be, can be processed. You
agree the OANDA shall not be liable for any loss, damage or expense of any kind which you or
any third party may suffer as a result of OANDA’s failure to process a deposit or withdrawal
request if, in OANDA’s reasonable opinion, you have not satisfactorily provided such
identification and/or information. You warrant and represent that all funds deposited to your
Account shall originate from a bank account or online payment processor account in your name
and that all amounts withdrawn from your Account shall be directed to a bank account or online
payment processor account in your name. You represent and warrant that acceptance by OANDA
of this Agreement, together with acceptance of the appropriate remittance, will not breach any
applicable rules and regulations designed to avoid money laundering.
(b) If you are a corporation, trust or other entity, you warrant, represent and covenant that you:
i) where required, have adopted and implemented anti-money laundering policies, procedures
and controls that comply with, and will continue to comply in all respects with, the
requirements of applicable anti-money laundering laws and regulations;
ii) have established the identity of all beneficial owners of the Account, hold evidence of such
identities and will make such information available to OANDA upon request; and
iii) have ascertained that none of the beneficial owners of the Account is a Prohibited Customer.
(c) If you are not the beneficial owner of your Account (i.e., you are acting as agent or nominee for
one or more beneficial owners of the account) you warrant, represent and covenant that you:
i) shall advise OANDA of the names of such beneficial owners, pursuant to Section 13(m);
ii) shall ensure that all funds for deposit transferred to OANDA originate directly from a bank or
brokerage account in the name of such beneficial owners;
iii) have adopted and implemented anti-money laundering policies, procedures and controls that
comply with, and will continue to comply in all respects with, the requirements of applicable
anti-money laundering laws and regulations;
iv) have established the identity of all beneficial owners of the Account, hold evidence of such
identities and will make such information available to OANDA upon request; and
v) have ascertained that none of the beneficial owners of the Account is a Prohibited Customer.
37. Freezing of Withdrawal Rights. You acknowledge that if, following the opening of the Account,
OANDA reasonably believes that you, or any beneficiary of the Account is a Prohibited Customer, or that
you have breached your representations and warranties made herein, OANDA may be obligated to freeze
withdrawals from your Account, either by prohibiting additional deposits, declining or delaying any
withdrawal requests and/or segregating the assets constituting the Account in accordance with applicable
regulations, and you agree that in such case you shall have no claim against OANDA, its officers, directors,
employees, or agents for any form of damages or liabilities as a result of the aforementioned actions.
Jagses:
Only the “who is PB” was directed at you. The other question was directed at Majid. It is the first time I have seen those initials used and was curious as to who that person is.
Note Oanda Sec 37: Freezing of Withdrawal Rights. You acknowledge that if, following the opening of the Account, OANDA reasonably believes that you, or any beneficiary of the Account is a Prohibited Customer, or that you have breached your representations and warranties made herein, OANDA may be obligated to freeze withdrawals from your Account
Olint members are beneficiary customers. So the entire shabang can be frozen. This also begs the question as to trades that need covering and appropriate hedging strategies that can suddenly be eliminated to our detriment.
I believe his accounts are freezed, even if he was running a ponzi, he must have some money left.
He better be honest, as only time will tell.
If he cant pay everybody, why not pay based on what he has $0.01 to the dollar whatever lol
jagses
if thats the case whats the problem in just saying what it is at this point people just want to know.
I think the trading accounts were frozen over a month ago and the Brits have intercepted the recent wire. It is likely that all assets will be frozen and a government receiver appointed for the the eventual remaining cash distribution. This process could push the wait until Christmas. I am a realist and unfortunately a severe casualty. The funds have likely been proven to tainted/comingled with dirty money. In the U.S. when a reciever is appointed it is not unusual to take 6 months to clear up. I have seen banking failure cases take over a year to repay depositors throught the FDIC.
The only positive from all this is that the British are historicaly more efficient than the US and the funds are frozen. Any information and updates from them will be conclusive. Keeping in mind that it is an ongoing investigation and there is a chance, however slim that no illegal/dirty money has been involved. Let me make this certain – D has not been arrested but is under investigation.
So the money should be eventually returned as I would guess 50% or more of current values. Olint will be likely issuing a statement today.
I have just heard same info Jagses reported that brits have seized all accounts. There is No Proof as yet but hearing it from more than 1 source now. Could be just another rumour
Here are the facts:
There is no money.
A series of bad trades has wiped the account out.
Everybody needs to start seeking legal advice.
It’s over guys.
Well it is nice to stir up the pot to that extreme but what is you source/evidence/collaboration. What have you, SAH provided us historically to give your comment any credibility? You are a totally new blog to this thread. Apparently your first comment. At least I and others have proven via multiple sources the rationale/joint confirmation and higher probability of truth via our comments. Can any one else of the group collaboate such an extreme comment? If none can or you cannot provide evidence your comment holds no water. A Yu like to hurt and or kill animals as a pikney?
Jagses
the evidence is:
I have gotten no money since november. No money to me, means there is NO money anywhere. Don’t worry about my evidence. I’ll meet you back here in a couple weeks when all will be revealed. And I’ll expect an apology at that time.
Keep hope alive.And to your last sentence….the hurt that’s coming or that’s here is solely the responsibility of David Smith
PS–There is no money. A series of bad trades has wiped it all out.
Dont shoot the messenger. Denial is still a river in Egypt. Heyy maybe that’s where the money is!
Also SAH is Apparently not aware of the wire information or British etc., or this would have been addressed by him in great detail. So I hold his brief comment as irrelevant based on the information at hand. Even Peter Bovel has a substantial amount to loose and he WAS (close and not any more) a close friend of DS and doan know shizzizle.
This wire is a curious thing. The Minister of Finance was not aware of it ever hitting yet a top Bank VP was. So I would assume due to the Govt/Political nature and international law the Minister was forbidden to discuss yet the banker was not. A simple bank employee cannot see this data, only a high security pass can. But i can understand how the system will show it and then the next day not, like a system Duppy, due to govt seisure. As if it was never there.
Jagses do you need a passport to go to LaLa land where you reside? Because I would like to join you.
some of you guys sound bad mind sah. David neva tell anyone fi come invest dem money with him. You all were motivated by you own will to make some quick money and got caught up in making the big bucks. Lots of people made more than what they originally invested. I do believe that there are quite a few people on this blog with the sole intent to taint the name of DS. They have not invested a dime so why bitch about it.
DS hold tight //will be praying for you as well as Olint as lot of Jamaican lives will be ruined by this recent happenings. Hope all will end well.
SAH – Do you have any money to lose? Obviously you don’t read the paper. You remind me of a High School instigator dat need beat! Yu get pon de wrong bus!
talked to an employee of the prominent bank and he confirmed that a wire was received for 200m and its now frozen in the account believe it or not thats what an employee told me.
Gfce – I can confirmed that too – The wire came in and NCB refused it.
something goin on here i am pretty sure about my source no reason to lie. But yet NCB has come out publicly and said they hav not received or was not aware of such a wire, we need to get more info cant let this just go so.
The Blog administrators and the those for the Local Big Boys’ bank do not want to know that,
Mind dem cease your asset too.
NUH MONEY NUH DEH FI TRUE?
What ever the case is we were on his side before u better be on his side now to try and help get back yr investments. We have been strecthed out for 6 months and i am not impressed, but is there any way that the company can make even a 20% payout to investers to ease the pressure then pay the rest at a later date. They said that money was wired , so clear up and rewire the 200 million they say was sent to ease the pressure…send some thing man people having serious problems may even cause death
You all have been scammed, this is a classic Ponzi scheme and all money is lost. You all speak of this David Smith as if he is a messiah. There is one Messiah, with many names, and David Smith is not one of the names. Learn, people. A simple plan for life: 1.Get up in the morning 2. Get a Job 3. Work , Save, Invest prudently 4. Retire.
The TCI Gvt. yesterday moved the court date to Fri. Aug. 16th because an undetermined amount of Olint money was verified and hence the term “Ponzi” has been removed from the charges. No derogatory/laundering evidence has yet to be found, so investigators needed more time.
Thats great news – we look forward to a happy ending to all this!
Hope Wat Jagses says is true…GREATT NEWSSS
DS has said that after assets are released – in 6 months our Statement values should be available for encashment disbursements.
Jagses,
The date should actually be August 15, 2008. Interestingly that is the same day that I-Trade FX is to submit an answer to the NFA, unless they ask for another extension.
6 more months to do what? 8 + 6 = 14 months.
1. Don’t you think some people would be happy to have their principal right now?
2. Don’t you think that many ‘investors’ are prepared to forget the interest as that is the least of their worries?
Jagses and JohnDoe, where you guys get that info and the Aug 15th date?? DS lost all credibility. Members not given any update from the last rubbish the lawyers send out July 18th. We need to hire Bassilio to go in and bring him out to face the masses at HWT. Then we might get the full hundred. Baisillio Respects . Nuff shotta would a cease when dem face you boss !! Respects Brap Brap
If the funds are unfrozen – i think DS (assuming the funds are there) should make options available to persons.
Eg. funds now – 60 cents to the dollar (total balance)
in 3 mths – 70 cents
in 6 mths – 80 cents
in 9 mths – full return.
John Doe – do u know who has frozen the funds at FXCM?
@mk
according to the Nationwide Report roughly USD 3.7 million.