investforlife
jay
nocotecToday we were greeted with the news from the liquidator out of the TCI, who was lamenting the fact that many persons who have been defrauded by Olint TCI have been reluctant to come forward with their claims.
ISLANDERS who ploughed cash into scandal-plagued firm Olint TCI are being urged to submit their claims if they are to have any chance of recovering their savings.
Liquidators for the Providenciales-based company � embroiled in a $750m international fraud probe � revealed that just 100 investors out of an estimated 6,000 have come forward to date
Why is there a reluctance by these folks to file their claims?
Is it that persons do not want to become exposed i.e. they are afraid of now being shown to be a believer in the unbelievable?
Is it that most investor invested in Olint TCI through feeder clubs, who really have no intention of filing a claim?
It is interesting to note that only direct investors of Olint TCI will stand a chance of getting back anything, as the liquidator was careful to note that only Olint TCI was being liquidated.
The stunning silence by Olint investors in indeed amazing consider that some many posters in the past few weeks have accused the media of conspiracy and cover up, and not wanting to expose the real “crooks” in the Olint saga.
The fact that only 100 have come forward couple with the fact that the majority of Olint investors were Jamaicans, is indeed in sync with the fact that their has been no reports to the Jamaica fraud squad by defrauded Olint investors.
The liquidator has reported his intention to make more public appeal via the print media, I will wait to see if any of these appeal will show up in the local papers.
For more info see link here :
Real Investments For Life 
I think most Olint investors don’t want to file a public complaint because they are wary of the repercussions of not paying over income tax on the interest earned.
In reply to Kam-
Some people are just plain embarrassed that they were lured into this investment, because we all feel we are intellegent beings, (me as one of them) I did some investigation of Olint, as much as I could, and in the final 5day process, I was convinced that IF he was a crook, he wouldnt have turned around and sued the JA gov after the initial raid. Neither did the gov. arrest him for a ponzi scheme. This I dont understand. It makes me a little angry that if he was operating a scheme (still not 100% convince) why was he allow to roam free in JA to reestablish his operation. Can anyone tell me why that didnt happen, if it truely was a Ponzi? I’m not argueing in favor of Olint, I just would like some answers. I did report my earnings here in US and did pay taxes. I think that most are saying to themselves that “if they raided his business before in JA and where never able to touch him, then maybe there is a distinct possiblity that the money is all there, and that things will prove out as being legit, and so, thus I dont want to be labled as a disloyal member and a trouble maker (and he did send out and email as such, that he would remember his loyal members) and somehow not get back all there money”. Anyway thanks for your input. Its nice not to hear the hecklers.
If investors want something useful to focus on… First without prejudice you have to allow your brains to focus on the modus operandi of ponzi scheme operations. These guys have not invented anything new since Charles Ponzi.
The operation is always structured like this.
1. There is a main often charismatic leader or someone that has been built up by an affinity group like fellow Jcans or church groups and pastors.
2. The leader has a small group of co-conspirators. The group is always small. This is logical because if a bunch of people know of the scam… with human nature, it is guaranteed to leak out into the public domain.
3. The leader (DS) and the co-conspirators actually have direct knowledge it is a ponzi scheme and they help plan and or execute the scheme.
4. This group is usually made up of the person with duties of chief financial officer (CFO), close friends or family and possibly business associates like a PR guy.
5. This group of co-conspirators can be charged criminally because they had direct knowledge of the scheme and helped plan or execute it. They were involved in a criminal conspiracy.
6. There is a 2nd group. These are people who are typically acquaintances or who establish business relationships with the principals.
7. This group is savvy and typically may have strong suspicions that the scheme may not be legit or if legit is unsustainable.. They position themselves to profit handsomely from the scheme.
8. As I pointed out and Jay provided a quote from a law enforcement official in the Madoff case… this group cannot be prosecuted criminally.
9. They did not have direct knowledge and or engaged in planning or execution of the scheme. Benefiting from an investing scheme that you did not or execute is not a crime. This should be obvious because folks that did not even know DS personally, did the same thing… they suspected it may not last or was a ponzi scheme and made regular withdrawals.
10. The solution for this group is well established in counties like the USA. The liquidator can force them to pay the money back and they can be sued. This has so far not been implemented in the case of Olint or C+. In the USA, even if you did not profit, any money you take out within the last 90 days has to be repaid. In the case of Olint, the logistics of clawback is extremely challenging because investors are spread over many different countries and jurisdictions. They have to be located, sued, get a successful judgment and then have their assets traced and recovered.
11. The principal will usually make donations or sponsor public events to gain credibility.
12. A donation to entities like political parties does not automatically mean bribery or criminal wrong doing. Political parties in many countries out of embarrassment will often return the funds.
13. To prove criminal wrong doing, one has to show that the money was a direct payment in return for such things as illegal interference by a politician.
14. In the case of DS, we have an affidavit from DS in the NCB case where his narrative indicates his donations brought him access but did not recite any illegal actions by the politicians. He recites that DV put him in touch with the finance minister (AS). He was seeking them to intervene on his behalf. He recites that AS contacted the head of the FSC and asked him to meet with DS. DS recites he did and that he outlined what he was seeking.
Based on the fact that the FSC and NCB actions against Olint continued and that DS sought to exclude the former head of FSC from his proceedings in the NCB case… it does not appear that there was anything illegal in this example. This is the way politics operates in the USA and many other countries. Donations buy you access. Without the donations you do not get access to a meeting with the finance minister and the FSC head. To be illegal we need to prove the access led to an illegal action being taken. I am not saying none was taken but it has to be proved.
15. There has been no prosecution of Olint in JA. However when was the last time we had a prosecution for a financial crime of someone who had fled the island. Further only 100 of 6000 people have so far filed claims in TCI. How many have filed criminal complaints in JA against Olint? Even in the USA there is an informal minimum of complaints that would trigger such a wide ranging investigation across borders requiring a lot of resources. This would depend on the seriousness and nature of the crime. Along with the resources available and or how busy the particular department is.
Investors would be best advised to focus their efforts appropriately. And as I have said before these cases are best resolved by law enforcement, they are best positioned to bring pressure on the principals to recover the remaining or available funds. Just believing DS has money stashed is not enough… this is not much different from when you believed he wired US $200 million to NCB and NCB and or BOJ rejected it.
In reply to nocotec-
Thank you for your insightfulness. Do you have a career in the investment world or law? As a good countryman I did file and report my earnings to the IRS in April of 2008. I requested a large amount in nov/dec of 07 to invest in other places. I recieved it in 5 days. Then in jan/ feb of 2008 is was getting harder to get money out. I took the original withdrawl and payed the taxes with it. Now your comment about “clawbacks” (I have to tell you that is a scary sounding word to me, doesnt sound to promising) has me a little worried. I sent this money to the IRS and am hoping I can recoup my taxes back due to the Madoff ruling. It wont be as much as I had initially invested. Because of all this trouble with Olint, my family is in financial trouble and I have been working twice as hard to get caught up with the bills. Any advise? Are you a lawyer in the US? This may be also a reason people are not stepping forward. Is because they may have to give back the little money they got but no longer have because of the hardship. This would be my situation. Thanks in advance for your input. Not sure if everyone here will see this or just you but, i’ll say this for the crowd, Please… no negative, finger pointing “Your a fool” statements, it doesnt help.
When you say “Investors would be best advised to focus their efforts appropriately”. Could you please clarify this. Where or what should I focus on .
@Ter
With regard to clawback… So far neither TCI or JA liquidators or courts have used this process. In the USA in the wind up process of a ponzi scheme… The company will generally be placed in bankruptcy. In bankruptcy a trustee is assigned to handle the process. Creditors/investors file claims with the trustee.
The law requires any money received from the company within 90 days before the bankruptcy to be repaid into the pool to be distributed to investors and pay fees. In a ponzi scheme the trustee will generally file a lawsuit against people that received more than they put in, usually covering the period up to 6 years from the bankruptcy or liquidation. The trustee has flexibility to determine who he/she sues, so exceptions can be made for hardship cases etc. In JA/TCI the role of trustee is usually assigned to a liquidator.
Clawback if implemented would only apply in 2 circumstances. If you got more than you put in or in the case of the US, money you got 90 days before the bankruptcy. Generally bankruptcy proceedings require money taken out within a period before the bankruptcy to be paid back. This is to prevent the owners from milking the company by paying themselves or friends or favored clients and then filing bankruptcy.
In the case of the USA, with regards to taxes… The Madoff ruling expanded the ability to file amended tax returns and get back refunds for the taxes paid on fictitious profits. This is of course if you filed the return and paid the taxes based on your statement with the fictitious returns, not if you actually made profits and filed based on that.
@Ter
One of the reasons I blog is so that folks that sought independent info could Google and find it. In the future in any investment… legit or illegal.. It is very important to not become locked in on the good news. Always seek out the contrarian information and invest only if the good news can stand up when subjected to this contrarian analysis.
For example some months back I blogged I was working on a new business project… I was away from the blog for a while during this time… I stated that I would pose questions to friends and ask them to tell me what they thought and I was interested in negative info, not them telling how good the idea was. I can sit around and agree with myself all day long… I do not need anyone to agree with me… what I need is input and perspectives I may be missing.
You should understand that much of the input you were getting before investing in Olint was from the Olint PR machine directly or indirectly from friends who had already invested. These friends acquired a vested interest to repeat good news… an investor is not going to say bad things or they would have taken out their money.
Remember that after the FSC raid and cease and desist order he filed suit against the FSC and then fled to TCI with his operations. Also remember than JA securities law is pretty new and there is not a lot of jurisprudence established with regard to the law. There have not been cases adjudicated where the courts have ruled and settled those issues.
Folks are entitled to due process and DS was able to exploit this leading to delays. His PR machine then exploited this to good effect, which is why you and many others used the fact that he had not been arrested or fully wound up as reason to invest. This made no sense because he was losing the cases at every step.
The other issue is that one always has to be cognizant of all the facts regarding any investment. The legal system in JA is unable to protect its citizens from rampant crimes like murder, rape, robbery and other violent crimes and from fraud… To put it mildly, it is very inefficient at protecting the citizenry. Before investing in such a climate one should be extra extra cautious because one knows that the system is likely to fail you.
Further one needs to shed the yoke of conspiracy theories that Jcans have inherited. If the regulators are warning against a scheme… I will take the word of the regulator 365/366 days a year over the word of the scheme. You need to get rid off the mentality of not wanting to miss out. Think about it like this… never chase a bus or mate… another one is always coming along. Same applies in investing.
Thank You nocotec for your words. I consider you a friend.
“Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. ” I will watch for your other postings. Thanks Again! -Ter
which one of them had a motorcycle accident hit the head and turn fool fool?
I would love to put in my claim to Olint but I have no idea about the procedure and to whom exactly my claim should be addressed. Perhaps one of you well informed persons could give me some info.
I am certainly not embarrassed about my stake in Olint and was definitely not lured into any ‘scheme’. I feel neutral about the situation and wont go blabbing off my mouth for or against Olint/David Smith with/without the facts. I trust and hope that David’s intentions were noble and wish the best for all involved.
God bless you all.
Ter, Said: When you say “Investors would be best advised to focus their efforts appropriately”. Could you please clarify this. Where or what should I focus on
Investors have a difficult choice. The reality is that in most of these ponzi schemes most all the money is usually gone. In the case of the Madoff ponzi, due to the way some people invested the SIPC insurance fund protected them up to $500,000. Additionally, due to the fact that many large firms and wealthy individuals were mixed up in the scheme… there is a chance to recover significant funds, though this will still be a small percentage for many.
In cases like Olint… Most of the funds went to pay early investors…much of the rest went to DS’ lifestyle and to loans and donations to friends etc… In the end, with the fees that will be due to the liquidator and lawyers… not much will be left, if any.
In a situation such as this, the reality is an investor needs to weigh whether retaining an attorney and pursuing a case will not be a case of throwing good money after bad. Each investor has to make that decision. Further, once a liquidator has been appointed by the court to wind up the operations, a lawsuit in that jurisdiction against Olint probably will not make sense… unless you are suing the liquidator because for example you believe he is acting unfairly.
In these situations generally the best course is to assist law enforcement where possible… this of course assumes competent law enforcement… there is question mark about that in JA. Other courses of action such as filing lawsuits usually require significant resources with the possibility of an iffy outcome.
The problem here is that most people waited too late to file these suits. When you invest, it is not personal… you are paying the manager a fee to manage your money and hopefully make you more money. Never feel that you do not want to rock the boat, you are not asking him for a favor… you are paying him to do a job…he is your employee. Now would you feel the same way about an employee in your organization if they failed to perform?
Soon as they stop performing you need to take action, up to and including filing lawsuits. Waiting only allows more money to disappear.
One concept you never touch on Nocotec seems to be that believe it or not some will pay money for justice to be served on Smith.
In other words, they are prepared to spend more than they ever ‘lost’ or ‘could afford to lose’ (hhaah I love that one) for the perpetrators to face their crimes.
Is it out of the realm of Jamaicans thought process or abilities to understand such a concept Nocotec?
Or are even the ‘big’ people so hard up that they still remain ‘below money’?
Money frighten dem?
Interrogatory number 2
Please identify any academic degrees held by Jared Martinez.
High School Diploma
Interrogatory number 4
Please identify all the advertising placed in the jamaican media by Market Trading institute that refered to David Smith
Objection. Vague, over broad and without time frame. notwithstanding that objection, no advertising was placed by any entity known as Market trading Institute in Jamaica that referenced any idividual know as David Smith.
Interrogatory number 5
Please identify the number of foreign exchange trading training programs sold by Jared Martinez or Market Trading Institute between 2006 and 2009in Jamaica W.I.
None were sold by any entity known as market trading Institute . Jared Martinez is unable to determine how many sales of FOREX trading programs he effected soley on his own because he keeps no such records.
Floridia?- Sorry. But the statement “which one of them had a motorcycle accident hit the head and turn fool fool?” doesnt help. So tell me, who is the double fool:
The person who has inflicted harm, the person who has, even if he tried his best to avoid it, allowed himself to be inflicted, or the fool who idly stands by, making fun of the injured person, instead of helping him up or encouraging him to move on? Anyway, none the less, I wish you well Florida. I hope you are never find yourself deceive in the future. Better still, that you never have someone standing over you laughing at your pain.
-Ter
Thanks Nocotec 4 your input. Very Helpful. -Terry
Ter, somet5imes what goes on behind the scenes or the blogs is not know to all. There are reasons for this. One day you will know why but not now.
I prove to you that FX theif has only a high school diploma.
i prove to you that he keeps no record of his classes (sales) in Jamaica. Yet with my owm eyes saw hundreds of Jamicans bowing to him right inside island life. i challenged him in front of all of them and he stuttered. and sided with him.
just because I pity them now does not retract my rights to laugh at them.
You tear down one blog about the motorcycle accident.
Against thousands of blogs that ennlightened Jay and so many thousands of victims.
Sekkle. Sekkle down. Early days still.
No bowing to Smith no bowing to Smith associates. Full Stop.
Wait until he is asked if Smith was paid 35% of the MTI class fees in Jamaica.
Listen Ter. A thief is a thief. you can buck it twist it try hide try retaliate run under some man frock it doesn’t change the fact. A thief is a thief.
Unfortunatly for me, I dont understand what you mean, “You tear down one blog about the motorcycle accident.” And
“Against thousands of blogs that ennlightened Jay and so many thousands of victims.
Sekkle. Sekkle down. Early days still.”
I am neither defending DS or condeming him. As time goes by it becomes more evident that he is an Ernie Madoff, in which friends and family dont know who this guy really was and this is somewhat of my experience with this whole mess and Olint. I just got the impression that your main goal in blogging was to inflicting more grief on those lay by the roadside desimated.
Dear Member,
At this time our situation has not changed. We still await realization of one of the options that we have been pursuing.
As you may have noted, the media has been issuing releases stating that OLINT TCI was audited and is being wound up as per order of the Turks and Caicos courts. OLINT TCI is a separate organization started by Mr. David Smith in the Turks and Caicos Islands and does not concern us in any way.
Our funds are in OLINT and located on the trading platforms NOT in the Turks and Caicos Islands.
We trust that at some time our funds will be released and Mr. Smith will have an avenue to make payouts.
Please be reminded that the next court date will be August 5th, 2009. Through the Caribbean Currency Traders Association (CCTA) a lawyer has been appointed to watch proceedings on our behalf.
As always we ask you to please continue to pray for the following:
1. Relief for many members who are undergoing hardships at this time;
2. The successful completion of the negotiations;
3. The early resolution to the situation involving our trader’s funds and for him and his family’s well being.
The Management and Staff
LewFam Club
Where is the mention of the money that was transferred to OLINT TCI?
Where is the mention of NO trading activity occurring with Olint TCI funds despite this claim being made?
Where is the mention of only a FRACTION of what was collected being accounted for?
Where is the mention of Mr. Smith being charged and out on bail…incidentally that 3Mln that was fronted for his bail could go a long way to repaying some investors]
Where is the mention of all the ‘efforts’ they were making to find a solution to pay investors?
Where is the proof of money on this ‘trading platforn’?
They must have accidentally hit send on that email before they finished typing it, because it sure seems like just more smoke and mirrors to keep the members at bay…..
Still stringing its members along eh? I wonder how many Lewfam members are still pugged into this story line…which goes our trader wants to pay u, has money to pay you, but is being audited so just be patient while we wait (&pray of course) on a good outcome?
“…and does not concern us in any way”
Ask the major dis, the fact that ds has been twice arrested and is out on a total of US$3m doesn’t concern members? How about a discussion of that with members lefam?
Why should the fact that of 220m collected by olint tci only a small fraction is yet accounted for by the liquidator worry lefam members?
That’s of no concern to lefam? Not at all, lewfam is special group consisting of praying commited christians.
DS would never do that to lefam, right?
Or could it be that this is one last throw the hounds off the scent that lefam operators need to create enough distance between them and the dupped club members (a term I always preferred to “invester”)?
Yes very good point Miak in regards to 1st 2 paragraphs. Maybe this was the 200mil he was talking about being delivered last march or april that was eventually returned. The cash to quiet the run that was happening in JA
I’m hoping that the authorities are putting a lot of pressure on him to come clean.
We have to at least give the Major and the rest of the Lewfam team credit…at least they are ‘communicating’ with their loyal members.
Lewfam:
“Our funds are in OLINT and located on the trading platforms NOT in the Turks and Caicos Islands.”
Asked where his assets were located, Smith said that they were scattered across Jamaica, Turks & Caicos, Canada the United States and Europe. He further added that he has two homes in the Caribbean islands of Turks & Caicos.
He went on to say that the US authorities have released [millions] of his funds. I pressed him on whether he would now be able to pay out investors and he reminded me that he was still under house arrest ……
House arrest? then why was he at the hotel opening?
…and he has not yet come before the courts but that he fully intends on making good on all his obligations to investors of Olint.
..So why run and hide from service of process if you are anxious to be ‘vindicated’ and get cleared in the courts?
“..Smith told the renowned journalist ” Self explanatory there.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20090612T040000-0500_153317_OBS_DAVID_SMITH_FEARS_FOR_HIS_SAFETY_IN_JAMAICA.asp
Drink up the Lewfam/Smith Cool Aid
Notice that Lewfam mentions nothing about having spoken to the Feds reguarding the investigation there.
No lewfam is uncooperative. Indictments.
Get your money from Lewfam before they spend more of it on a ‘lawyer’ to watch the TCI case (preliminary hearing) on August 5th.
It is the prayer of the wicked who would lead the victims to believe that something significant happens on august 5 2009.
Miak
He’s not out of the bail $3M. You put cash and you let the person who bailed you hold the rest. U&sually 10% is upfront. So the two bails are say $300,000.00 so the person ‘entrusted’ for loyalty needs $2.7 million to be in the clear.
I’m told she’s building on to her house on the Provo golf course nowadays.
Live up yes. The party is over at Miami International or Ft lauderdale. Take your pick.
In America eveybody born off Collie Smith Drive. Don’t believe? Book a ticket.
I heard from my close friend in Jamaica who happens to be a senior member of the JLP camp.
Sounds like the JLP underestimated the impact of OLINT on their creditability
especially with the IMF.
Heard an emergency meeting was called to prepare for the backlash when the
Lawsuits filed in Federal court go into the “Discovery phase”.
Sad to say, they really brought this situation to this point because of their own arrogance and their inability to be transparent and fair.
The JLP must do a few things to take away the stigma of corruption from Jamaica:-
1) Repay amounts donated to them from OLINT- US$12 million
2) Assist with the current Federal investigation and turn over the co-conspirators of OLINT to the relevant authorities.
3) Stop suppressing the media from publishing the facts surrounding OLINT and the reason for its collapse
4) Establish a non partisian commission of enquiry to determine the facts surrounding the origin and business plan behind OLINT. Also for this commission to make a recommendation to the DPP if criminal activities are found to exist, thus paving the way for criminal prosecution.
5) They must allow the police to investigate this OLINT matter/fraud. I know 5 persons who submitted sworn written statements to ACP Les Green. I spoke with all of them and they have heard nothing further. Shockingly, he recently stated he never received any complaints. Something smells fishy !!!
6) Discipline party members who were agents of OLINT.
My close friend confirmed to me that Minister of Government JR has been indicted by the Federal Government on Narcotic charges and he has been instructed to stay out of the public sight. He was a major player in the OLINT ponzi scheme and certainly benefitted financially. His debriefing by the Federal agents should prove to be very telling !!!
Indeed, the JLP camp is in a quandary as to how to respond to this Federal Indictment.
One thing most people underestimated is the influence and power of the Federal government. Alas, with cases being filed everyday in Federal court, the JLP Government has very little time left to quickly save face and correct past misdeeds.
I suggest the JLP Government quickly embraces the non political transparent judicial system used by their “Uncle Sam”.
The prayer of the wicked??? so those who pray and hope for a positive outcome are now counted among the wicked?
If you are aware of an already determined outcome, and you are aware of my ignorance regàrding that outcome, and you tell me to just pray man just pray, then yes, to me you r**s wicked!!
Why would you get into a contest with anyone about whether it is ok to pray? You should always pray.
However there is one thing to pray and have hope. It is another thing altogether to be blind or stupid.
Almost every religion teaches the need for communication with a higher power. I believe in the power of prayer. My prayer recently has been for this thief to get the maximum punishment allowed by the law. I pray too that all sentences run consecutively. I pray that the guy spends the rest of his life in prison and never gets the chance to steal another dollar.
You should also pray that the folks on this blog develops the concience to expose the Jamaican official who took the bribes to stop the investigation into Olint in 2006.
It is now understood that during the raid in Jamaica, they saw the same thing that the TCI police saw two years later. Yet no charges were brought against the scoundrel.
And we hear excuses such as, well the laws were new, or there was no law for that sort of thing in Jamaica at the time. Verily verily I say unto you, the law against theft was given in the ten commandments to Moses. Criminal law in almost every country is based upon the scriptures.
I know that “ginal” and stealing is a way of life in Jamaica. But we should liken this situation to one where the FBI investigates Madoff, raids his offices, finds out he is running a Ponzi scheme and allows him to go free to practice his stealing craft in another country.
That is akin to what happened in Jamaica, my friends.
Bretheren, be ye not fooled again.
And to you Lewfam folks, are you guys nuts? Isn’t that letter a bit of salt in the wound? Aren’t you guys infuriated? To think that this late in the game, someone would have the indecency to suggest such crap?
I have uncovered that some of the feeder clubs were running mini ponzis of their own. If I were a gambling man, my money would be on Lawfam being a ponzi scheme.
OLINT TCI is a separate organization started by Mr. David Smith in the Turks and Caicos Islands and does not concern us in any way
That is a statement akin to TCIFX traders saying we have nothing to do with David Smith.
Yeah right without collusion with Smith Lewfam, TCIFx and many others would not have existed and been able to shaft people’s money.
.Our funds are in OLINT and located on the trading platforms ..
Bold Statement Lewfam. Where is the proof? NOTHING should be stopping you and/or Smith from proving that statement. But guess what? You can’t. Cause the money not there.
We trust that at some time our funds will be released and Mr. Smith will have an avenue to make payouts
You Trust?
At some time?
Avenue to make payouts? He does that in corners he thinks he can be protected by.
The successful completion of the negotiations?????
Negotiations? ??????
Lewfam? Get a lawyer. A good one.
our trader’s funds
?????
Lewfam you mean the people’s money that never belonged to him.
our trader’s funds
Get a lawyer Lewfam it’s genuine advice.
http://wiv4.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/leader-of-the-opposition-responds/
Folks, Lewfam is making these statements in an attempt to prevent the lawsuits that we have been suggesting the defrauded investors take.
Their recent statements is an insult to all their scammed investors, as we all know that Lewfam and OLINT were like twins in a POD.
Which trading platform is the money on, has anyone replied asking for proof.
While all this is happening A lot of real estate has been changing hands recently; some have equated it to a case of musical chairs. Some say it’s keeping it in the family, others are less generous. They say it’s a pre-emptive move just in case the courts get any more involved .
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090709/news/news8.html
Standford seems a very happy man here to me in his outfit.
I wonder if the TCI prosecutors can made DS just as happy .
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aS_QN89nAjFg
Tafari: I know that “ginal” and stealing is a way of life in Jamaica. But we should liken this situation to one where the FBI investigates Madoff, raids his offices, finds out he is running a Ponzi scheme and allows him to go free to practice his stealing craft in another country.
Have you read the details of the Madoff case, or did you read it and not understand it? In any case for the benefit of others…
The FSC in JA is analogous to the SEC in the USA. However their roles differ in some ways. For example… in the USA, some types of investing activity are regulated by separate agencies… in JA there are 2 regulatory bodies the FSC and the BOJ. Most all investing type activity falls under the FSC, including some which the SEC does not handle.
Another example is the SEC appears to have more prosecutorial authority than the FSC which appears to need to refer such matters to the DPP.
JA does not have different police agencies like the USA (such as the FBI) but departments within the police are responsible for different areas such as the Fraud Squad.
The analogy or equivalency you attempt to cite In the Madoff case is just not true. The SEC was warned about Madoff for many years and did nothing. The SEC investigated him and found nothing. In the case of the FSC they raided and investigated DS/Olint/Lewfam and issued cease and desist orders as well as public warnings. Jcans of course ignored the warnings and only accelerated their pace of investing.
The FBI did not investigate Madoff abd discover his crime. The ponzi collapsed and he was unable to meet incoming redemptions. At that point he confessed to family members who are the ones that turned him in.
Further, legally theft generally refers to the acquisition of property (e.g., cash or goods) without the owner’s permission. DS did not steal money from Olint ‘investors’, most were only too willing to give him their money. He obtained it by deception for fraudulent conversion.
At the point where the money was given to the legal entity or corporation (Olint) and DS removed any of it for personal use etc… some of that may be theft. For example, an owner of a corporation can steal money from the corp if they take non-salary type money not authorized as compensation.
This may sound trivial and being technical. However since a defendant is entitled to due process and must be proven guilty in court, it is super important that he is charged with the correct crimes and that the prosecutor have enough evidence to prevail on each specific charge.
In the USA a defendant is usually charged with multiple offenses for the same crime. There are multiple reasons for this but the main one is to allow jurors that cannot agree, room to compromise and agree on a lesser of the charges.
One well known example of how this works was in the case of former DC mayor, Marion Barry. He was charged with multiple crimes and the jury found him guilty of only one, (I recall simple possession of cocaine, a misdeamnor).
A Reagan era change in the law allows the judge in deciding length and severity of sentence to still consider the other charges he was acquitted of, almost as if he was found guilty of those too. Normally first time offenders found guilty of simple possession would get a fine and or probation but this is why in the case of Barry he got jail time. Such methods do not appear widely used in JA OR TCI.
@Jay
Among the reasons and why we advised folks way back to file lawsuits and not wait is the shifting, sale or transfer of assets. When you file a lawsuit you can get an injunction to prevent the sale or transfer of assets.
Further you can have some transferred assets recovered because they can be classified as fraudulent transfers or transfers to evade judgment. Time is of the essence as the further away in time the transfers are from the lawsuit, the more difficult it can be to make the connection. Not to mention that the money may simply be used (e.g. spent on travel) or better hidden and harder to find.
Additionally the closer to a sale or transfer of assets a lawsuit is filed, the easier it can be to prove that a buyer was not a bona fide purchaser. That is, the purchase or transfer was not made in good faith between an independent buyer and seller… the buyer knew or should reasonably have known the sale or transfer was not on the ‘up and up’. If a sale or transfer can is shown not to be a bona fide transfer the court can revoke it and recover the assets.
Thanks @Jay for your help.
We are here in the US. We placed money in olint back in early 2006 and finishing in late 2006. At the time it was just olint and then the name change to Olint tci? So Im not sure if it is part of receivership in TCI or its seperate. Is it to late to take legal action, because of what you have describe above has already happened?
Sorry it was You Nocotec that my earlier coment,
“We are here in the US. We placed money in olint back in early 2006 and finishing in late 2006. At the time it was just olint and then the name change to Olint tci? So Im not sure if it is part of receivership in TCI or its seperate”
Thanks,
Ter
A Bull Market for Investment Scams
The economic downturn is making it harder for con artists to cover their tracks, say government officials and legal experts .
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2009/db2009078_476479.htm
I believe it said Olint Corp. at the top with the line below it said “Overseas loccket corporation” Also Jay are you a Lawyer? And where did you and Nocotec get your information? I’m constantly googleing and never find anthing this detailed. I would appreciate the heads up. Many thanks -Ter
@ter
Based on an affidavit from DS, this appears to be the sequence. He purchased (maybe started) a Panamanian Corporation, Overseas Locket International Corporation shortened as OLINT. He later formed a company in JA called OLINT Corporation. When he left JA he setup Olint TCI in TCI.
He was engaged in a shell game. As he stated in his affidavit… and notice that a check written to Olint can be deposited in the account of any of 3 independent corporations. When he got the cease and desist order form the FSC he then claimed Olint Corp in JA was now a customer service arm while Olint TCI was the trading arm. Funds were being seamlessly moved back and forth between the entities.
You can clearly see that money in each corp was not separated but co-mingled. The liquidator in TCI has been charged only with liquidating the TCI corporation, Olint TCI. However if any money is found to be distributed, it will clearly place those in Olint JA at an unfair disadvantage since very clearly their money was transferred into Olint TCI.
The remedy appears to be, a petition of the court in TCI, presenting the facts and requesting that the liquidation be consolidated given the facts… as failure to do so do will unfairly disadvantage Olint JA investors and prevent them from receiving funds to which they are clearly entitled.
Yes I remember the form on it had something to do with and was signed by someone in Panama. How do I get this affidavit you speak of? So is it to late to sue? And would the cost of the suit be burdened on me. Since I basically have no money, it makes it difficult to do so. I guess I would have to seek, hopefully, a complimentory meeting with a lawyer.
Therein lies another brilliant aspect to this whole Olint saga. It’s my belief that 90% of the investors, be they direct investors, or through feeders/pigs, invested enough money to be a substantial loss to them, but not enough to make it worthwhile for them to INDIVIDUALLY file suits.
But then, the ‘shame’ that many people apparently feel (not sure WHY) from investing in Olint and being scammed has prevented them from banding together to file their suits.
This is why one has to admire what Dr Walker, Belcher (Sp?), and others like them are doing. SURELY the costs they’re incurring in all this CANNOT be small
Thank you “The Cynic” for your posting. Who is Dr. Walker , Belcher?
Cynic, I agree. One issue; the shame factor. Are we so sure that shame is playing the major role in preventing proactive action from the duped contributors?
My own suspicion is that many have have not fully come to grips with reality. Sort of in the RedP mode. Hoping for a favorable outcome despite the odds, or the writting on the wall really.
How else do you explain a letter like that to lewfam investors? The major isn’t stupid (well…??) He knows the tempreture out there. He could not send such a letter to a group of people convinved that they have been scammed by the largest fraud scheme in carib history and the role lewfam would have played in the perpetration of the fraud.
They simply are not convinced.
My own perception, gained from speaking to people who have been burned in one way or another, is that there is acceptance that something isn’t well, but they’re dissappointment is tempered by hope. Hope that money will be recovred;hope that its all a dream; hope that the signs are not what they seem; hope that DS was really the best trader in the world.
Agreed Cynic,
On aspect which is unmentioned is the pratial list of investors on the Internet.
Many say Jamaicans don’t want people to know their business (even if it’s money they can’t touch)
Some say they are made targets for thieves (because the theives see the money people ‘have’ yet can’t touch)
Some say shame to know that in the ‘substantial’ positions they view themselves in are revealed as average and below average.
Some say the list has ‘busted’ them and they can no longer ‘lecture’ and show ’empathy’ with the ‘poor’ victims the used to counsel while quietly witholding their own calamity.
Some say they can not account properly for the money they put in Olint.
When the emotional quotient starts to bob a weave they can get twisted and ‘frustrated’ so anything can come out of thier mouths.
The society and it’s functioning have been revealed to the World. Some deep issues about Jamaica have become public to a widespead audience for the first time ever in the country’s history. No one can hide anymore.
But if you check it Cynic. Probably the list of names has one stand out effect above all.
And it is that many on the list high and low, rich and poor, lettered and unlettered have all had a tendancy over the years to borrow money from people when times get tough. It’s cultural. We have yet to get the credit rating system off the ground.
What has happened since the list has been on the Internet is that people who begged freinds for various loans would tell the creditors (sometimes for years) that they can not yet pay back but their mind has not forgotten the debt(s).
All of a sudden the creditors see that the borrowers were clearly lying (it was suspected but now proven)
You say you don’t have it to pay me back yt you were putting loads of money in Olint.
You see Cynic everybody in Jamaica (especially uptown thinks there a hollywood star of sorts) The bubble has been busted now.
Some so self absorbed concer themselves so much about seeing their names (even with paltry sums) revealed that they become livid and ill.
Many of them can’t go beyond themselves and even realise or comment that the country’s Prime Minister sends e-mails to David Smith and speaks to ‘Smithy’ as if he were some kind of King.
Floridian:
That’s a damn good post!! I think you captured the “Jamaican way” of profiling.
I don’t know if you remember the lady on the Olintja blog that stated that she took out US$150K equity out of her house to put into Olint, first through a pig and then directly. When the story was replayed to her, she adamantly denied that is not the way the story went.
I have heard of others who have put as much as US$600k+, source of funds being a combination of home equity, 401K, etc. and even quit their job to live off the monthly interest. Well, when the bottom fell out of Olint, they are back seeking their old job back and of course, cannot pay the mortgage.
Look forward to more revelations on the Olintja blog. I think the time is ripe….don’t you think? Don’t hold back on the names….
So keep on lecturing. I know the list is only partial and have a feeling the complete list of many aspects of Olint are yet to be revealed.
School starts soon. Don’t follow that uruly and disruptive child David Smith in the back of the class.
@Ter
When a lawsuit is filed you are generally allowed to conduct a court supervised process call Discovery. You can ask the defendant to answer questions and or supply evidence such as an affidavit… or you can subpoena and or request relevant info from pertinent individuals, courts or companies.
If you do not have the resources to file a lawsuit, generally your options are to team up with others and file one suit, sharing expenses… sort of a miniature class action suit. However as I pointed out before, you do need to weigh the cost against potential or likely results. Though, as floridian points out, one may choose to do it for the purpose of ensuring the criminal pays for his crime or at least does not continue to benefit.
You also have to weigh the fact that a liquidator has already been appointed and whether you are not best served by working through the liquidation process via the court. The best result is often achieved via law enforcement placing pressure on the individual to reveal all info on funds (amount and location).
Almost every time in these types of cases, the reality is that there is rarely every a good or pleasant outcome and there are hardly ever good or easy choices. This is why you have to been real diligent upfront before turning over funds. There is not going to be a good outcome here. There are tough choices that may end with varying degrees of success or satisfaction but most people are likely never to see another dime, especially those that went through ‘pigs’ or the smaller feeder clubs.
@ Miak
Unnu guys love to call mi name eeh?? haha 🙂
Listen, keep in mind that there are many of us out there like Ter, myself included, who cannot afford the services of a lawyer to file suit.
Peace
RedP,
You should have banded together with friends and family who lost. Those on your prayer bus/email list should have put together ‘a smalls’ and filed one big suit. Individually it may not be worthwhile, but in unity there is strength.
But I suppose, you and everybody else has a valid reason as to why they chose not to find unity and file a claim. Strange that you found unity and comfort in prayer….. but not to file a claim and get back some of your hard earned money?
This is by NO means intended to single you out…. b/c in fact I myself have tried COUNTLESS times to bring together even a SMALL group of people to file a claim, and I’ve heard every reason under the sun as to why people (even lawyers THEMSELVES) weren’t willing to come together.
Red P if your name came up on an indictment you might prove yourself a liar and find a lawyer fast.
Any comment on that Nocotec?
LewFam are definitely accomplices. I remember when others talk about how honorable they are and they will make good as best as they can.
the email is a joke. they take their clients for idiots
@ Test.
Fact, There was this guy who through Olint had bought two houses in upper St Andrew really nice I may add.
In addition he bought a brand New 7 Series BMW, quit his job and indicate that with the money he has invested in Olint and the “returns” he was getting, he would never have to work again.
He would simply drive his better half to work and return home, watching his “interest” mushrooming.
Sadly, the bottom feel out, the BMW was repossed mortgage cannot be paid and so he decided he is going to skip town.
The fact is, he is too ashamed to go back into the job market, and refuses to be seen without his prized possesions.
This Olint affair has really split wide open the entire Jamaican society, exposing many persons.
Recall the money master Managing Director C. Crooks when asked about Olint investment was not one bit amused.
@Jay
I wonder if that guy is Olint-For-Life. 🙂
I remember him saying how many houses (4, I think) and cars he had brought from the proceeds of his Olint investment and was expecting a US$500k encashment at the time of Olint demise. After outing him on the Olintja Blog, he has disappeared, never to be heard from again. I wonder if RedP heard from him lately. 🙂
Floridian, since you sneak on the prayer bus, you hear anything from Olint-For-Life-until there -is-no-more-money?
I am a Ja and have invested money in olint and may daisy. Although I do not want to lose my money I did put an amount which would not ruin me if I lose my investment. This is not to say that I don’t want back my money. I really do. You Americans may feel that we are not filing law suit because we do not want our affairs to become public. we aare shame that we are conned. Some of us Ja. do not like to go to court. We love to settle our differences our selves. Some of us pray some of us extract revenge and the list goes on. For myself I do not have all the facts but from what i have heard so far David has been lying his pants off. If he took my money under false pretence I do hope he and his brother wayne and his wife rot in prison. That will be my revenge –Prison– Even if I dont get back my money I would be satisfied with that family going to prison. He may even find a new wife there.
Tracy may also find a new man in prison (some of these ladies look and behave like men)
Could very well be Test, now that you mention it. 🙂
@ floridian
If I had to find a lawyer it would have to be on borrowed money guy, supm I’m not prepared to do at this time. Stretched thin enough right now. Who knows, if things turn around u never know maybe I would consider that route.
BTW for those better educated than I and who have knowledge of law, what are the chances of coming out on top if one does file suit? What if u lose? This is the problem. If I were to sue and lose, how I goin pay my lawyer? Do any local lawyers work on the basis of no fees charged unless you win suit??
Guess I just have to trust God at this time.
@ Jay, I dont think thats O4L
Nocotec:
I bet my wife five dollars that you would be up in arms about that comment regarding olint being left alone to practice his craft.
Wow! I am good. What about that makes you so touchy? Which one of your friends or how many of them took the money to let Olint go free?
they raided his office for christ’s sake. They saw the scam. Why did they then elect to let him go free Nocotec? You guys must have discusse dit over drinks.
Come on. Who made the decision to let David Smith go free after seeing the scam?
Nocotec, you know everything…..Oh and everyone. Come on guy….how was that decision made?
Was it in exchange for campaign contributions? What did your friend from Clarendon have to do with it?
@Tafari
The real question is why did you invest after the cease and desist order was issued… and warnings?
Did you notice the tone of this thread changed from the last one? All it takes to mess it up is a fool. Which of the following is applicable to you? Big hint, I made it easy for you to guess.
He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he(TF) is a fool – shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple – teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep – wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise – follow him
****I appologize in advance for the lengthy discussion of why I invested. You might find it interesting. In my case I invested, I believe, slighly before the cease and desist. In my search I found negative info but, I think because of my lack of info of how the ponzi works, I found it confusing when reading about this info. I later studied what a ponzi was, but what I learned wasnt as clear, as Nocotec has wonderfully described it.
1. Olint was raided in JA- BAD NEWS, RED FLAG- BUT according to the papers, 70% of the investors left and took there money with them. And I believe, and I might be mistaken, something similar happened before and he made good. My reasoning at that point (because of my lack of info/experience) was that it couldn’t have been a pyramid/ponzi scheme. A ponzi couldnt sustain the external pressure of the runs and the draw down. Of course I didnt know about the piggy back investors/feeders. And that possibility, didn’t occur to me.
2. JA gov didn’t arrest him for fraud- Confusing at first in my mind but later, when he sued the gov, for unjust raid I had concluded that any con man would of been long gone after being cut a big brake from the gov with no enditment. *** Nocotec I remember you said he “fled” to TCI . As I remember it was some time after the raid. I was thinking he didnt leave JA until about the time he began his campain against NCB. Tell me if I was wrong. I do know he first went to ST. Kits. I didnt perceive “fleeing” which to me mean, “getting on a plane the next day, and gettin the hell out of Dodge for good”.
3. My Brother introduced me to the name of Olint. He told me what his returns were. Roughly 10% PER MONTH. I said NO WAY! I have traded off and on for a few years and I told him thats impossible. RED FLAG. But my brother, who is a fairly sophisticated investor (calls, naked calls, shorts, leeps, straddles, etc.) had personally interview him for about 2 hrs. He said he felt good about him, felt that David knew what he was doing.
4.Both my brother and DS had some mutual friends. One being a pastor who knew DS for 20yrs. David grew up in his church. The last I heard he still felt that DS is an upright man. Some time later my brother told me of another friend he knew, who was very affluent and was a guest at DS home in TCI. DS had shown him, during there discussion about the storm brewing on the horizon, the various platforms and said the money was all there. The only bad thing is if this man didnt know intimate details to how much SHOULD be there, he wouldnt know if all the investors money was all there , but I was thinking that my brother was told by his friend, there was roughly around 700mil he saw.
5. Another valid point for me back then, at the time of my research, was that my brother knew a Jamaican trader that was trading for himself and his family. My brother spent the night with him watching him trade the CAD/YEN and the USD/NZD currency pairs. 17 trades that night. One loosing trade, and the rest earned him a 35% RETURN in that ONE night. Some months later he witness him do a 17% for the night. Now of course I relised that there is a possibility that my brother might of caught him on two good nights. The trader himself said he looses some nights but on the average he does well. My brother, at that time, was trading gold on a demo account through Oanda. He was doing 2 to 8% per month. He eventually went for a live account and would average 3 to 5% per month. There were some loosing months for him. I then began to think that just maybe DS was legit, since my brother was a newbie and doing so well. Just maybe, since according to a newspaper, that he traded currency for a bank a total of 15years before going on his own. So at this point of what I had discovered, I felt it was a distinct possibility. I was more convinced.
*****AS a point of interest (jumping forward in time) when I was doing so well with the investment, I “retired” . We watch our expense as best as we could with periodical encashments. And so I began learning and trading a CAD/YEN demo account for about 7 months through FXCM. I was doing 1 to 25% per month with one loosing month (-1%). I felt good and confident. I then began trading a live account. The first 2 weeks I was up by 10%. by the 3rd week I was up by 19%. Then the bank credit crisis hit, the currency went completely kaotic, (kind of like flying a plane in a cloud and you cant figure which way is up) and I didnt have the experience to handle it and I was wiped out. That day of seeing my account wiped out was probably one of the lowest points in my life. I then was forced to go back to work (s) . This is when the accounts were frozen and no end in sight.
6. Going back in time now, before I invested. I receive an email from MTI, that they were having classes in JA. It indicated who the instructors would be. I quiried my brother about DS and MTI. He said that DS went to MTI to hone some skills. I call MTI pretending that I had heard through the grapevine that there would be classes in JA. I told them that I heard that some great trader by the name (acted like i wasn’t sure) David Shultz was teaching. Shortly later, I found out it was Jareds Martinezes daughter I was talking to. She said that I must be speaking of David Smith. I said ” yes, that’s it”. She said “No, he isn’t teaching.” I asked who David was then. She said he was a student there at one time. “he is an excellent trader, and a very smart businessman.” She went on to say eventually in our conversations that he was the best student that had come through MTI. She also had mention that he had approximately 300mil under managment. Ok, that was a BIG plus for me and it cast a positive light on the previously stated info. It started to piece together into a definate possibility that this guy was up and up. That maybe, just maybe my ship was going to come in.
A week later I called MTI by another name and spoke to a trader/teacher. I ask him about the possibility of someone actually being able to trade the forex and make and average of 10% per month. He told me that a very experience and skilled trader could easily perform at 10% per month. I thanked him after a bit of more talk and hung up. I pretty much was convince by then that, yes he wasnt being smart about being transparent, but that the investment odds were in my favor.
7. I did google every variation of Olint, David Smith, Oversease locket and I saw the statement by an official of the FSC and he kept making the statements of Ponzi scheme funtion this way and that and then would interate that he wasn’t saying that Olint was specifically a ponzi scheme. Found this confusing but concluded that he didnt say that he thought that Olint was allegidly a ponzi scheme, so Olint might not be a ponzi.
8. Found out through my bank that the Caribbean was beriffed of scams.RED FLAG- I found out who Hallmark was owned by (canadian and Brittish banks)
and interviewed the manager. I felt the bank was legit but I started investing causiously. Over time I had invested a large sum of money.
As time went by, and the roller coaster went up and down, I felt that eventually everything would iron out. Olint would eventually become transparent, (because of a close friend of DS, and a nephew of my brother who is best friends with DS) But all this really works into Nocotecs description of the inside workings of a Ponzi. Different levels of people in the know, those who have a strong suspision, and those who are on the outside.
There were a few other things, but I have to get up early tomorrow.
Bottom line: I knew, as with all trades, there is inherent risk. I felt the odds were in my favor because of the research and people on the inside of Olint and at NCB. Some of the info was negative, in actuality was positive if you read between the lines… if that makes sense. I broke the cardinal rule of not investing more than 2-10% of all your assets in one vehicle, And if in doubt….leave it out of your investment. I had some doubts. Should of left it out.
Funny… my brother was kind of surprise at how much digging I was doing. My wife felt that, if I kept shaking the tree to see if something fell out, that possible Olint might get wind of it, thus turn us away if we decided to join. I thought if david got wind, as a trader, he would congratulate me on doing my homework.
Ok, there you go. I’m sure some will critisize and try to dismiss my story as a sham by trying to prove it by something I wrote, but that’s the truth of the story as I lived it. Thank you everyone for taking the time to read.
*****Please don’t judge my intellegence according to my spelling, it is getting late and I was to tired to go through all the mistakes.*******
-Tery
RedP: BTW for those better educated than I and who have knowledge of law, what are the chances of coming out on top if one does file suit?
Depends on your definition of on top. If you mean winning or prevailing, then chances are excellent. If you mean recovering more than your legal fees, then chances are poor but though unlikely there is still a slight chance.
It you file a suit and lose you may be required to pay costs including your legal fees and the defendant’s legal fees. In cases like this where the chances of a large recovery is low and the amount of work is large, the chances of finding a lawyer to work on a contingent basis is low.
There is another problem though… When a company, like Olint, is placed in liquidation this is the equivalent of a bankruptcy proceeding. Think about GM. If you sue GM now you will become a claimant before the bankruptcy court. Similar thing here, if a liquidation of Olint is going on in the jurisdiction your claims will be referred to the liquidation proceedings..
However there is another reason to sue… there are other parties that may have liability and they are not included in the liquidation proceeds. Think his traders, pr folks, feeder clubs, ‘pigs’ etc. A lawsuit can hold them accountable if these other parties are liable.
British company likely to admit bribing Jamaican officials
http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=10713
THE Opposition People’s National Party (PNP) is expressing concern that finance minister Audley Shaw and Governor of the Bank of Jamaica Derick Latibeaudiere are absent from current negotiations with he International Monetary Fund (IMF) in Washington, United States.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/tools/breakingnews/bnm.asp?bn=1933
@Tafari
Wake up! If bribes where dropped that would be bad but so far there is no evidence that bribes were dropped on the regulators unlike the case in Antigua. In Jamaica, Brian Wynter and later George Roper became personas non grata in Jamaica for their Anti-UFO stand.
Anyone and I tell you, anyone, who dear to challenge the legitimacy of OLINT, LEWFAM and Cash Plus were seen as fighting down the little man and preventing people from prospering.
OLINT, Lewfam and Cash Plus challenged the actions of the Regulators every step of the way. Cash Plus gave up when it lost a case in December 2007 as the courts backed the FSC in saying that they were in the business of issuing securities and as such were subject to securities regulations. CASH PLUS et al, should now allow the FSC, the regulator bodies to see their books.
This was exactly what OLINT, LEWFAM, CASH PLUS et al did not want because they knew that once the (cook) books, were opened that would be it.
OLINT was shrouded in the mystique of ‘FOREX trading’ and ‘four plus monitors’ and how there was’ so much money being trading’ everyday and blah blah blah. Again if you challenged OLINT and its fictitious rates it was because you were dunce and not aware of “workings” of FX. You would be asked “You know anything about trading forex?”
MTI
This is where MTI and its principals added to the mix. Whether deliberate or not, we have our views, the MTI crew latched unto the FX FEVER and apparently had a feel day in Jamaica with sessions after sessions.
So if bribes dropped that was bad and persons should be punished. However, there was absolutely no way the regulators in Jamaica should be blamed because as a Jamaican living in Jamaica they preached, “Think and Check” before you invest day and night. He who have an ear to hear let him hear.
More Noise the regulator made more people invested
The CAPRI people, look them up, in their study suggested that the more the regulators spoke out it was the more the people invested.
People made a fool of themselves not the regulator and Brian Wynter and George Roper should be commended for taking stand and not backing down.
@Nocotec
You are presenting some very good pieces. Remember you can post as an author… you should post some pieces.
Brian Wynter and George Roper are not the only FSC people. Can you identify Smith’s ‘people’ in the FSC?
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1469&id=8
In response to a question from a PNP loyalist who asked why not let the current government continue, he said that with all the corruption perpetrated in recent times, the government had no credibility.
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1467&id=8
Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) Fort George visits TCI
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1468&id=8
Governor Gordon Wetherell reassures public of UK takeover
A civil and criminal recovery board is already being set up to claw back millions in misspent cash. And a special prosecutor and senior investigating officer have also been hired.
http://www.tcweeklynews.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1373&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2404&hn=tcweeklynews&he=.com
Johndoe wrote:
OLINT was shrouded in the mystique of ‘FOREX trading’ and ‘four plus monitors’ and how there was’ so much money being trading’ everyday and blah blah blah. Again if you challenged OLINT and its fictitious rates it was because you were dunce and not aware of “workings” of FX. You would be asked “You know anything about trading forex?”
Dude, they raided his office. They had access to his accounts. One of two things is true here:
1. They saw the information, saw the clear evidence of a ponzi and elected to do nothing about. But then why raid the office? Well, after the raid they they were pressured to leave it alone.
2, They were too damn stupid to know what they were looking at. Raided the office and decided that everything was legit, that the guy was really trading forex.
But as corrupt as systems are in Jamaica, I would “invest” my last dollar that the prior is true.
Now taking the former argument, the question arises, who would have been in a position to make the decision to allow David Smith to remain a free man?
One would assume that it had to be someone high up in the police department or government right?
Any guesses?
Tafari Francis, on July 9th, 2009 at 4:39 pm Said:
Nocotec, you know everything…..Oh and everyone. Come on guy….how was that decision made?
Was it in exchange for campaign contributions? What did your friend from Clarendon have to do with it?
Reply
nocotec, on July 9th, 2009 at 5:01 pm Said:
@Tafari
The real question is why did you invest after the cease and desist order was issued… and warnings?
Did you notice the tone of this thread changed from the last one? All it takes to mess it up is a fool. Which of the following is applicable to you? Big hint, I made it easy for you to guess.
He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he(TF) is a fool – shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple – teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep – wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise – follow him
Reply
////////////////////
Can you kindly answer the question please?
Nocotec:
On whose behalf do you transfer “billions” of dollars?
I think Nocotec should sue Tafari Francis for Libel 🙂
Hey Tafari, is that US or JA Billions?
You are an idiot, void of any basic common sense and to think that you come on the blog to say that you went to Princeton University (I wonder who believe that) after or before your were drafted in the US army. DUDE, your are an imbecile, a moron and as we say in Jamaica, a big pus*y.
@ JohnDoe,
Very good points.
@JohnDoe
Some of the info I posted would do well in an article. I have had some time on my hands and I enjoy sharing info and Ter has been interested in info about this stuff so I have just been posting… did not give thought to putting it in an article.
Tafari: Can you kindly answer the question please?…
1. They saw the information, saw the clear evidence of a ponzi and elected to do nothing about. But then why raid the office? Well, after the raid they they were pressured to leave it alone. …
But as corrupt as systems are in Jamaica, I would “invest” my last dollar that the prior is true.
I have answered the question many times, including in this thread… and others have too, on many occasions. You are typical of many investor posters we have had on the blogs. You believe if someone ignores your repeated questions, it proves your twisted version of reality is correct.
Have you noticed the difference between you and a blogger like Ter? One is seeking info while the other one has all the answers but asks questions when he already thinks he knows the answer…
Dude do you know that you have the traits of a woman? You know… your wife or girlfriend spends 2 hours getting ready to go out… then asks you, “How do I look”? There is really only one answer that is correct for her. The question is not designed for an independent answer or appraisal…
You have the same trait… you are sure of the answers you are looking for to your questions . Unless you get a response that fits in your version of the world you start hating the poster and repeat the question… you are really seeking approval not answers.
@Ter
You post on your thought process before and after investing is interesting. It illustrates how a researcher can easily fall into a trap. Scientific researchers have to guard against this in their research.
What happened is your research was not really independent. Most of the people you spoke to or the information you read or received was actually directly or indirectly coming from DS and Olint. There was actually no independent verification of statements being pushed by the Olint PR machine.
The other problem was researcher bias. This is why for example in medical research, a double blind study is required. When testing a new medication… the patients are given the real med or a placebo. The doctor analyzing the patients is not aware of which patient is getting the placebo or the med. If the doctor knows it will skew his analysis based on whether he is trying to prove or disprove the thesis that the med works.
In your case in your research bias was that you really wanted this to be true… you thus ended up giving more credibility than it deserved to info that was in fact unsubstantiated.
Yes Nocotec, about the independent information.
Probably the bigest trap door in the floor was the false sence of security in thinking that I had a window into NCB and Olint via various people in those two businesses.
The appropriate and most revealing independent info, would have been receiving copy of trading logs for the year (from various platforms).
Some months after investing (around January/Feb 2007), I called the Olint office and spoke to an Anthony. I asked if he could send me a copy of the trading logs (silly me) for tax reasons. (here in the US i could of reduce my capital gains tax by providing trading logs). Anthony said, without missing a step, I will research that and get right back to you. Can anyone tell me how the end of this story goes?. I’ll give you two chances and one of them dont count!!……
-Ter
I would like to gve David and Tracy Smith a new name:
David “Ponzi-Forex” Smith and Tacy “Ponzi2” Smith and Wayne “Ponzi3Slick”Smith. Any votes?
Ter,
“1. Olint was raided in JA- BAD NEWS, RED FLAG- BUT according to the papers, 70% of the investors left and took there money with them. And I believe, and I might be mistaken, something similar happened before and he made good.”
You can still have 99% of the investors pull out and not crash a scheme if you do not pay 1% of the big investors.
It was rumoured a big investor was not being paid after the raids and rumours of threats that forced DS to move.
Remember rumours are rumours and people talk.
Nocotec:
Fred, on July 10th, 2009 at 7:27 am Said:
I think Nocotec should sue Tafari Francis for Libel
Hey Tafari, is that US or JA Billions?
//////////////////
You indicated sometime ago that you transfer billions (or was it millions). Can you lease tell Fred what currency?
Oh, And there is no twist. Just logic.
Fred:
What was it that offended you?
After reading the article posted by Jay about the rising number of ponzis and scams being revealed, I had to wonder to myself…. Was Mr. Smith actually smarter than many of those other Ponzi running?
It has been 2 years since he has stopped paying the masses, his ‘systems’ were confiscated and scrutinized, but yet he is still a relatively free man… enjoying all that life has to offer (assumption yes I know, but a safe one I bet).
Clearly he must have done SOMETHING right, clearly he must have made mostly the right choices in orchestrating this plan? Clearly he must have surrounded himself with the right people? Clearly, where the other Ponzi runners failed, got caught, had to go into hiding or get locked up, Mr Smith must have succeeded because him, his wife, brother, extended family and friends are all still free living life on the money they (allegedly) stole.
And to add insult to injury everyone KNOWS where they are, and is free to visit them at any time.
Maybe Mr. Smith may not have been the greatest trader in the world, maybe he simply was the greatest ponzi runner in the world?
To add to the above,
some may argue that while others were operating in the US and are therefore ruled by US law (which in comparison the that in the Caribbean appears VERY swift). However, he DID take money from U.S. investors, and from what we’ve seen the amount of money he + Lewfam took from US investors surely WASN’T small at all.
So is it that Mr. Smith has shielded himself from the swift arm of the U.S. Law? Or is it that he is out of it’s reach?
Again it seems he must have done SOMETHING right, because surely it won’t take 2 years to prosecute the other ponzi runners that are feeling the squeeze of the U.S. law enforcement.
According to an NFA official I spoke to, the IRS/SEC has now passed a law or rule, that any investment co that takes US citizens money is required to register with the SEC. Which there is some governed standard by which they must be transparent. That law went into effect in April I believe.
Also I am confuse by the MTI response to the NFA that the NFA investigated DS for 6 months before giving Jared Martineze there blessings in letting DS be a principal. You would think they would of came accross evidence that he was a ponzi.
Also this agent stated at the time, that the IRS has begun an investigation on Olint/DS. They told me that an area IRS director might be calling. She never did. I’ve heard that the US DOJ has cleared DS/olint for any money laundering activity. (this is unsubstanciated by me, has anyone any credible info in this regard to the DOJ?
@ The Cynic.
Lets suppose a couple of things.
1. When the FSC did the raid, they saw the list with a number of very influential members of the Jamaican society inculding politicains.
2. Having seen this list of the who is who in Jamaica and the power brokers, they panicked as this is not what they had expected.
3. They were pursuaded by very influential persons to “let it go” , but Olint could not be allowed to operate in Jamaica unitl the got regulated.
4. They the FSC knew that once this path was being pursued the would have covered their back. but at the same time would not have exposed the “crooks”, who wield significant power in Jamaica.
5. Big players helped DS move the scam to TCI, AND started and big PR sting operation saying that “over 70% of those who fled after the FSC raid was repaid ” That was a lie to try and show that Olint was not a PONZI’.
6. The FSC head would have no part of the scam and “hightailed” out of the job as he did not want to be implicated when Olint when bust.
Corruption is so endemic in Jamaica its not funny, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Too many Jamaicans feel comfortable “doing what they have to do, to EAT A FOOD”.
Those last three words for me are the most profound three words to come out of Jamaica in years, and in my opinion has been part of the reasons for the very high crime rate.
People believe that they are justified in doing anything as long as they eat a food.
Jay, I agree with your analysis. I also believe that the FSC is a very impotent organization with a lot of bark, but no bite. To this day, they are publishing list of UFOs in the local paper(s), yet have not gone after the leaders/owners of these schemes. You have to wonder the reason for the publication…..to throw some “FOOD” at the papers?
Jay Agreed on ALLL those points. In fact one could argue that this is part of the BRILLIANCE in Mr. Smith’s plan. Accept money from ‘important people’ in fact, go AFTER important people, give them higher interest rates, make them feel special, stroke their egos, all the time knowing that if these people are on your side, even if you get caught, you are still in the clear!
Then when the FSC issued their cease and desist, no need to worry, Mr Smith had the right people around him at the RIGHT time. People who could instruct him where go, what to do, how much to pay, and what colour Range Rover to buy.
I figured that since Mr. Smith had fleeced so many american citizens, that the US would have an interest in seeing him locked up in THEIR prisons, especially since its blatantly apparent that Jamaica has little interest in doing so.
Time will tell?
Shame on you Cynic. Predictive Geopolitics is not their forte. The plan was predicated on Misick staying in power.
You should have heard how David Smith talked before he knew that the TCI would be taken over by the British in FULL. He took money from Brits too. In fact he had more then one feeder over there.
There has been a scramble since the gang realised their lack of understanding of geopolitics. Much money drop. Not from Smith alone.
Notice Smith’s change of tone as reported in the Jamaica Observer.
I’m afraid kind of thing. Last September it was the badness and the ‘connections’
What he failed to understand is when you do that then the ‘connections’ feel the pressure. When they are all removed you will hear a much reformed David Smith.
The Big Man is heavy yes. I would be the first to tell you. But he is not invincible.
Smithy come into contact with some links in recent years. Eye open. But he doesn’t know his ass from his elbow.
The big man ask bout me long time. Set a meeting. Smithy later sets meetings with some insignificant low level.
I told the blog over a year ago that everything has a level. Smithy might place a hundred grand US on the blackjack table and felt he ‘reached’
Everything has a stakes. Smithy has learnt but has far to go. You can’t call the game and the stakes and then as you learn call a ‘time out’
Cake plus icing not on offer. I’ll advised Smithy? If you had the experience of the Big man first hand he might well have told you that not all coners run the same.
Pride is man’s downfall Smithy.
local Politics B/B+
Geopolitics F/Ungraded
Runnings D/D+
David has potential but follows a mischievious crowd. As such he becomes a time waster and distracts industrious students. Ms Smith as a form teacher I am sure you have seen this before. Those children are rich and have their lives planned out for them. David will need to bucke down to academic rigour and stop following a certain crowd who fill his head with rubbish about how the World works.
@Jay, theCynic
I think maybe you are giving too much credit to planning by DS and the lack of enforcement by the FSC. Much of this can simply be attributed to the country and people from whom and from where DS got most of his money. You can simply substitute several other names of other ponzi operators and see that they have had the same ‘luck’…
Max Higgins (Higgins Warner), Ingrid Loiten (Maydaisy), Lewfam are examples…They took money from local and overseas Jcans too… and they left the island too… and they are roaming free too…
Yet Carlos Hill (C+) and one of the other guys (forget the name at the moment) that remained in JA have been charged.
A huge part of the issue with the FSC is related to the newness of JA securties laws and also the enforcement mechanism and prosecutorial authority… Has anyone checked to see what the FSC could actually have done? If you are licensed they can fine you and or suspend your license and refer you to DPP/police for investigation and prosecution.
If you are unlicensed do we know if they can do much above a cease and desist order? Does the FSC have the authority to prosecute criminal charges, particularly for unlicensed persons/parties? Even in the USA… generally if you are not licensed and running an illegal scheme it falls on the police agencies like the FBI to investigate… so you will often see the District or State Attorney leading an investigation… not the SEC or state regulatory authority.
In other words it appears that the Fraud squad should really have been been leading the charge here… it appears in fact the fraud squad should have staged the raid. After the raid the FSC would/should have referred the case to them.
If you read the IMF working paper on Caribbean ponzi schemes which had contributions from the former head of the FSC… One consideration in closing down the schemes in countries like JA is the fact that Jcans are so backward… as we saw they blame the regulator and government for causing the scheme to fail, instead of the perpetrator. These consideration appears to make these entities proceed gingerly.
The other reason why DS has not been charged except in TCI is that most people do not understand that most countries (including the USA) do not frequently pursue financial fraud cases against companies and individuals not operating in their jurisdictions… In the USA one the few types they actively pursue outside their borders is money laundering (ml) and mainly because of its relationship to drug and terrorism.
Outside of ml they only do when the crime exceeds certain parameters like the amount of money or residents/complaints exceed amounts… or the the environment makes them particularly toxic. And we have seen that Jcans are wary to come forward… the amount of complaints is always an informal determinant of action.
good points jay…good points.
*good points Jay, Good points nocotec
Nocotec,
While the securities law and the FSC were relatively new, they no doubt would have looked to the USA – SEC and UK – FSA for “advise” (for want of a better word) in drafting the regulations for the country.
It would not surprize me to find out that the regulators (FSC) sought guidance from politicians, on the Olint case in particular and it was not forth coming, thus leaving them unsure how to act.
In Jamaica the system reeks so much or corruption, the those from which advise was being sought simply turned a blind eye to what was happening and may in fact have provided those “crooks” with a way out.
While Olint was a ponzi and may have been one from the very start, I am now beginning to find out that local politics had a major hand in why it was allowed to flourish for so long ie why action was not taken sooner.
In fact I am of the belief that the real pressure started when certain individuals were “refund” their accured principal and interest, and so no longer had money at risk.
Regardless of what may have happened people lost money because they believed in the unbelievable and did not think or checked properly before “investing”.
Jamaica a failed state
Ranked 117 out of 177 countries in the latest failed state report.
The report sites major issues of corruption, and little protection of it’s citizen . Crime and violence seen as a major problem.
http://www.nationwidenewsnetwork.com/
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20050904/focus/focus4.html
In one week Jamaica was ranked third happiest country in the world, two days later ranked one of the lowest on the “misery index”.
Guess we are a happy people in misery 🙂
@Jay
I agree with you except I do not believe any of this was specific to Olint. This is the way JA is… I have pointed this out going way back… the legal system is unable to protect the citizenry. Remember that the accusations are mainly leveled against JLP politicians and they were in opposition while Olint was allowed to flourish.
Recall Speedy cash… that pyramid was allowed to operate in the open with ’nuff big man participating’… no action was taken until it crashed. This is the normal modus operandi in JA. The difference with Olint is that so many people bought into his fx trading myth that they are now looking for something to blame for having being so gullible. This is a normal human reaction, many people when they make a mistake look for others to blame.
My point is that I do not believe there were any special conspiracies to let Olint thrive but it thrived because this is the way Jcans are and this is the way the gov and authorities are. As I pointed out in a response to Ter… among the reasons why one has to be extra extra careful investing in an environment like JA is we know the gov fails to protect its citizenry.
@ Nocotec
I am new to the blog. You seem to be the authority on here. The question that tafari is asking seems to be a legitimate question. Why wasn’t David charged in Jamaica? I looked quite a bit but I did not see your response.
@Pilot
I too have asked this question on more than one occasion. This is a very important question. By the way, the discussion by nocotec, jay, cynic, etc is very intelligent and useful. Thanks, guys.
IMHO, nocotec comes closest to the truth. You have to study the actions of the authorities (FSC, government, tax, etc) very closely. Let’s look at FSC and DPP (the public prosecutor, for non-Jamaican readers). A cease and desist order is a very significant regulatory action. It was taken by the FSC very early in the game. Yet, because there was no prosecution, this was interpreted by the PR machine (and, as these posts show, even by what I regard as well-thinking Jamaicans) as somehow an endorsement, or at least proof that the authorities were not sure if it was a ponzi. Why this was or is considered a valid point, I just don’t know. It does not make any sense to me.
Still, the question why there was no prosecution needs to be answered. Maybe only a commission of inquiry will be able to get at that but fat chance from the current administration. I have a couple of thoughts on the possibilities, though.
It is very well understood, I think, that in criminal trials there is a very high burden of proof. Most of us would not wish it any other way. You may have abundant evidence of a crime, but the prosecutor must be able to remove all reasonable doubt before she can get a conviction. The same abundant evidence may easily be sufficient to support a civil or administrative action. Here are some possibilities:
1. The FSC did not think it had enough evidence on the criminal standard to refer the matter to the DPP for prosection.
2. The FSC thought it had sufficient evidence on the criminal standard but corruptly failed to provide it to the DPP for prosecution for reasons articulated in the earlier posts.
3. The FSC thought it had sufficient evidence on the criminal standard and referred the matter to the DPP for prosecution and the DPP did not agree that it was sufficient and therefore properly did not prosecute.
4. The FSC thought it had sufficient evidence on the criminal standard and referred it to the DPP and, although the DPP agreed it was sufficient, it corruptly failed to do its job and didn’t prosecute for the reasons articulated in the earlier posts.
We need some more information before we can say which of these is the reason for the failure to prosecute. Tafari’s sweeping statement about what was found on the FSC raid did not sound like he had inside information on that, but I could be wrong. It sounded to me like the similar sweeping statements we heard at the time that Olint “survived” a “run” by 70% of its investors, repeated forcefully by Wignall and others. Tafari?
Here’s another thought: if America (a top country for ponzi schemes) did not have a system of plea bargaining, it is doubtful that they would have been able to extract penalties and punish most of the ponzi operators that they caught. Few cases go to trial. Jamaica lacks a functioning plea bargaining system. This missing link is a boon to white collar criminals.
Bob:
A very thought provoking summary!
However and this is key, the FSC was NOT focused on proving whether Olint/Lewfam, et. al, were engaged in a Ponzi scheme. Their primary (a sole goal) was the determination of whether these schemes were engage in offering securities to the general public. If that was the case, it is their contention that these entities MUST be registered and the individuals involves MUST be licensed by the appropriate Jamaican oversight body (FSC?). Therefore, these two components:
A) registration of the “instruments” and
B) the licensing of the entities and individuals offering these instruments to the public
were the areas that the FSC was concern about back in March 2006. The court cases that resulted were an attempt to prove or disprove this premise.
As to the issue as to why further prosecution of Olint did not take place, one only have to look at the how these court cases progress through the Jamaican judicial system. By the time the pertinent decisions were handed down by the courts, Olint was officially operating outside of Jamaica and for all intent and purposes, one may argue that they were pretty much bankrupt by then.
If we chose to assign fault as it relates to the longevity of these schemes, I think we need to look at two areas:
1) the relevance, existence or non-existence of Jamaican securities laws, which gives rises to a level of uncertainty in its interpretation;
2) the time factor involved in moving cases through the judicial system. Olint, (in my opinion) might have capitalized on this inherent deficiency. The government could have step in as a matter of public policy and exert some pressure on the “system” to expedite the entire process and this latter point is what has given rise to the speculation that there were some nefarious forces at work.
I suspect that there might have been some political expediency as it relates to the fast approaching general elections in 2007. Bottom line, there was no great conspiracy involve that prolong the Olint/UFO saga (as guys like Tafari would like us to believe).
Ter,
I could personally relate to your posting today.
We all have valid reasons for trusting in OLINT and to have placed our hard earned money in David Smith’s trust.
I agree with you in that we as investors should never berate each other by calling each other “stupid”.
The main facts that got me to personally invest in OLINT were:-
1) My friend a senior member of the JLP told me that upon winning the election the JLP planned to issue a license to OLINT and other UFO’s.
This fact was substantiated when I spoke with the current Minister of Finance AS who was a supporter of David Smith and his “financial entity”.
2) In the USA I have invested in other hedge funds which have been able to consistently yield 30-35% per annum. Thus, a Forex based hedge fund made sense especially when I attended the MTI training course in Montego Bay.
At that course Jared Martinez told us he trained David Smith and that he was one of the best traders in the world.
I rushed back to the USA and did a company check with the better business bureau and found no complaints against the Martinez enterprise. Further checks did not reveal any red flags.
(Needless to say, it is now apparent David Smith and the Martinez family are the main players who have defrauded us as investors, having engaged in Money laundering and other illegal financial practices)
3) I flew from Atlanta to Jamaica and spoke at length to Wayne Smith, brother of David Smith. This meeting was facilitated by my political friend.
He gave me a contract which was signed by Hallmark Bank’s CEO, Brian Trowbridge and David Smith. This contract clearly stated 80% of my funds would be safe!!!!
Well, having the funds guaranteed by a bank, in this case Hallmark Bank I thought as well as two other close friends in my residential community, that our funds would be safe.
The rest is history and so we invested our money with OLINT/ David Smith/ Hallmark Bank. The three of us wired our money from our accounts in Atlanta GA to OLINT.
Based on our extensive research, not only is OLINT a fraud and a ponzi, there are quite a few other financial institutions which are co-conspirators and it is our plan to proceed forward with legal action against these parties. I have seen that a group of investors have already sued :
Hallmark Bank and Trust Jared Martinez
MasterCard International Brian Trowbridge
MTI
Not only I am going to carve out a chunk of change to sue the above mentioned parties, but I am also planning to sue the JLP and the Bank of Jamaica.
The JLP received and derived benefit from a ponzi scheme and has made no attempt to repay this to the current liquidator. Further, senior party members endorsed the OLINT Ponzi scheme and in fact one member has been proven to be the marketing agent for OLINT.
The Bank of Jamaica failed to shut down the “OLINT Jamaica” customer service arm. If the BOJ knew that this was a Ponzi scheme, then they should have requested the DPP to commence prosecution of the principal agents of the company-namely David and Wayne Smith. They failed to do so!!!! Why?
My friend has told me where most of the money came from for the General Election and also the recent by –elections. Let us see where they are going to find the money to defend this lawsuit.
We are looking forward to welcoming any Jamaican Government official in Atlanta Georgia. Be prepared for us at your next question and answer session.
Bruce get ready when I call you on your next “call in” program and ask you about the revealing fact that you were socializing with David Smith in Turks. Do you think that was appropriate? Do you not recognize that you are the head of Government in Jamaica?
Do you not think you need to set an example to the rest of your party members?
Your actions can only be described as DISGRACEFUL and will come back to affect the Jamaican people.
American Investor:
….”My friend a senior member of the JLP told me that upon winning the election the JLP planned to issue a license to OLINT and other UFO’s”…..
Who was the friend? Was he one of the two Olint Boosters (current members of the JLP cabinet)?
Do you run a major Olint Feeder club out of Atlanta and the holder of US securities license(s)?
To American Investor:
Could you be my friend from antlanta? Does the coffee, Peaberry, sound familiar? And do you have an uncle E.M. Let me know. Need to talk to you if you are who I think you are. Best wishes to your endevours if not.
-Ter
Very interest revelations by American investor and Ter.
@Bob good thought provoking post.
The last few post have been very very interesting.
AI, good luck on your pending legal actions.
Couple issues. Sovereign immunity may interupt your legal action against the BOJ even if you have a “valid” cause of action.(For e.g. You can’t sue the SEC for failing to shut madoff down)
Second, why does the JLP have a predetermined duty to return monies to the liquidator? A moral duty, undisputed. But a legal duty? (I’m not questioning your motive, nor am I defending the JLP. Simply interested in the legal dynamics of your percieved position)
It’ll be an interesting legal argument to make. I’d like to be a fly on the wall during those court arguments, I’d surely learn a lot.
If you don’t mind, keep us posted on the progress of your actions.
Some intelligent posts today…
1. Ter & AI even though you tried to do research, you are case studies in how mistakes are made when doing research. Your narratives both indicate that your research was biased. If you examine it carefully what comes across is that you were speaking to and seeking info primarily from Olint, DS or his close friends or from people with a vested interest to give glowing assessments.
You wanted it all to be true. Once a researcher has this subtle mindset he will ignore or not seek out info that supports the bad viewpoint. In research the ‘bad viewpoint’ must be explored more thoroughly because only if the thesis can survive such scrutiny is it valid.
In your research there were never any provable assertions of DS doing anything similar before. To believe DS in such circumstances is the equivalent of Bolt never running a sub 12 sec 100m and believing he would break the world record at the Olympics. What are the chances of that being correct? Would you be willing to place money on that possibility? Why not? See why the negative has to be examined more thoroughly in any research?
This is the definitive answer to why there were no prosecutions before DS left to set up operations in TCI. Many investors will not like to hear it but it is the reality.
Investors behaved like the victims of domestic abuse. In many states in the USA, the laws have had to be changed to protect domestic abuse victims from themselves. Now when the police arrive at a scene of domestic abuse they are required to arrest and charge one or both parties. Read on and you will understand the comparison and dynamics that were at work.
1. There is some confusion among many about the role of the FSC, Bob being a notable exception. If you look at the actions taken by the SEC, they are primarily civil. The SEC sues the perpetrators. The role of criminal prosecution falls to the State or District Attorney.
2. As Jay points out the JA securities laws are modeled off laws in the USA and other countries. This is the process… when drafting new laws are regulations… the ministry technocrats will study the laws of other countries and model the new law off those.
3. The actions by the FSC were close to the limits of their powers. They could or should have referred any findings of criminal wrong doing to the DPP. So far we do not know if they did, but there were powerful incentives from investors to leave Olint alone.
4. However herein lays the real secrets. Investors are the ones to be blamed. They are the ones that let themselves down. They are much more to blame than the FSC, the DPP or the Fraud squad.
Here is the reality… At, before or in the months after the FSC raid … How many complaints were filed with the FSC or fraud squad alleging fraud by DS? Was it not, like ZERO? If a few hundred people had come forward, the pressure would have forced an investigation and charges. To the contrary there was an overwhelming and virtually unanimous crescendo from investors demanding DS be left alone. This was accompanied by the usual accusations, bad mind, grudgeful etc…
The reality is that criminal proceedings rarely proceed where a crime has not been alleged by victims. Here is what investors did to themselves… it was not done by the authorities… there was no need for any grand conspiracy to accomplish what investors wrought on themselves.
This was akin this not unusual situation. There are screams and noises coming from a house… the police are called by a neighbor and show up. They find the wife (investors) bloody and black and blue. The husband (DS) has scratches indicating he was in a fight. The police/DA contemplate seeking a restraining order and pursuing criminal charges against the husband. The wife and family (investors) engage in a major verbal assault on the police threatening to beat them up and kick them out of the house… demanding to be left alone… it is none of your business. The police oblige and leave.
Several months later the police are again called to the house. This time the wife is found dead (Olint crashes). Now the family members (investors) all descend on the police accusing them of failing to protect their loved one (investors’ money).
Does this not explain it? After the FSC raid, investors unanimously demanded their hero be left alone. None of them allege a crime was or is being committed. They chased away the authorities with relentless verbal abuse. The authorities, as is usual in cases, when no victims emerge to allege they have been defrauded… leave them alone and move on to investigate crimes with victims.
Investors, wilting under the magnitude of their losses are now alleging that the authorities should have ignored us when we cussed, chased them away, said DS was our savior and demanded he be left alone. The reality is you got what you demanded. Now someone explain to me how the fact that DS was not charged needed a grand conspiracy?
Excellent analogy. !
@MikeD
Those are interesting points. It fits with their mandate as far as I can tell from my read of the FSC Act and the securities act. It also makes sense based on my understanding of how securities regulators are supposed to operate.
I would just add that there would probably have been several different crimes or offenses that could in principal have been charged at the time of the FSC cease and desist order. Depending on the evidence available to the authorites, these would have ranged from (and I am not using technical language here) fraud and deception through to operating without a license or whatever approval was required from the regulator.
One implication of what MikeD said is that the prosecutors may have been unwilling to bring criminal charges until the licensing issue was settled in the FSC case. Excuse me if that is not your intention but it is an interesting point to add to the mix.
The posts by Ter and American Investor include the kind of information that I suspect the FSC or the prosecutors would have been desperate to have to put before a judge or to support further investigations. I think, though, that people often get a bit confused about the difference between information and evidence. A prosecutor may read these posts and thereby have the information but (and I have to simplify a bit here) unless the person making the statement is willing to say so in court it is as if the information does not exist. A prosecutor may have a copy of a letter that proves her case (information) but without a person willing to come before the court (and before the accused person) to swear that they received the letter or saw the copy being made from the original letter, etc, etc, the letter remains as information and does not become evidence in the case. These are the types of things we are talking about when we hear that some outright thief got off “on a technicality”.
If Ter and American Investor, or investors like them, were willing to give this type of information to prosecutors in 2006, it is possible that life for David Smith and a number of others would have been quite different. Of course, in 2006 no Olint investor was prepared to give help to the government for a whole variety of reasons. The prevailing view was that the FSC, etc were the ones creating the problem for investors for reasons that were basically corrupt.
We can see why Jamaica is perceived to be so corrupt. When government was acting against the schemes it was perceived as doing so from corrupt motives. Then, later, it is accused of failing to act against the schemes, again from corrupt motives.
Incidentally, the information at item 1 of American Investor’s post points towards a possible crime if it is true. Yet instead of deterring him it encouraged him. If the promise of the politicians was believed to be something they could deliver on, it is evidence of a conspiracy to break the law by somehow manipulating a statutory body to provide a license either without due process required by the law or to an entity to which a license ought not to be given.
If, on the other hand, it was not believed that the policiticians were planning to break the law to fulfill their promise, the promise that they would license Olint could not have been worth much to the investor. Of course, there is the possibility that the investor believed that the reason that Olint had no license under the then government was due to corruption, he may have believed that the JLP’s promise was merely to remove the corrupt block against Olint in which case it would be entirely innocent and even exemplary. I haven’t so far seen any information to support this last possibility, however. Has anybody else?
@ Nacotec
Very interesting analogy.
An appropriate reading I reckon.
@Bob
It is actually laughable that folks actually gave credence to an opposition politician saying to a potential supporter or contributor… “when we get in, we going to free up Olint”. Anyone believing such a promise, the world over (George Bush, Sr… read my lips, no new taxes)… but especially in JA must not be in full control of their faculties.
Did you notice none of the allegations of such promises are made against the ruling party. The PNP made no such promises while in office… nor did the JLP when they came into power. Further there has not being one shred of evidence that neither party while in office implemented or even attempted to implement any such action.
@Bob
Maybe the best evidence of what transpired can be gleamed from evidence on the various blogs… I am not sure if you go that far back on the blogs…
Before the election, folks that were obviously insiders or in the know were ‘dropping word’ about how things were going to be different after the election… they were obviously privy to info that DS was ‘dropping money’ and to the promises being made.
After the election and as time proceeded and no help came to DS/Olint… the evolution can be seen.. the JLP became villains. Another example of investors acting against their best interests and then later seeking to cast blame.
What reason did the FSC give for the raid?
One would assume it was to gather information of unlawful activity. One would also assume that this evidence was readily available to the raiders. So why was nothing done with that information?
Domestic abuse victims? Are you kidding me?
@Tafari
Did someone say, you are an imbecile? Of one thing I am sure, based on your postings… it is readily apparent why you lost your money and will never see back a dime ever. It is very clear that you are incapable of even semi-intelligent analysis.
Some investors made attempts at researching OLint, flawed as it might have been. In your case you are the poster child for the saying, “a fool and his money are soon parted”. If you have any left, it too will soon be separated from you.
@nocotec
Yes, I remember those blogs. The pathology is interesting. We are trying to understand it.
My last post overlapped with yours at 11.21am. Your analogy for this type of crime is a good one.
Given that, we should be thinking about how to act when the next case of “domestic violence” arises. Unfortunately the analogy breaks down there and it wouldn’t work to create a law to arrest “both” parties. My sense is that the answer is to strengthen the civil law remedies or procedures available to the regulator. That’s a thought for another post, though.
@Bob
I agree with you and have posted before that I believe the JA securities laws do not give enough authority to the FSC. In my opinion the ability to criminally prosecute is too centralized. Though many countries have the same model… I believe giving agencies like the FSC the ability to prosecute criminally would be helpful. The issue in a country like JA is of course tempered by available resources.
@Tafari
First, something was done with the information. The FSC issued a cease and desist order (in fact, several). This was sufficiently important to Olint, at least, if not to you, to propel them into a pitched court battle which, as someone else pointed out on this blog, they lost at every stage. That case is currently before the appeal court. Have you read the judgment of the court? It was posted somewhere on this blog but I will try to find it and post it again for you.
Second, reread the posts about who is responsible for prosecutions in Jamaica (and it is the same in every civilised society).
Third, unless you know what information was found, it is a mistake to assume that what was found was sufficient to support a prosecution. Please reread my previous post and thinkg about the burden of proof in a criminal trial.
But you should reflect a little more on why you consider civil or administrative action by the FSC to be insufficient to deter you from investing while a criminal prosecution would have been enough. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I can just hear the arguments that DS was innocent until he was convicted. And then, if the prosecution failed, or succeeded at trial but failed on appeal, would that to you be “proof” that no crime was committed and Olint was not a ponzi scheme, or, maybe, of another conspiracy of corrupt judges or whatever? Well, even if you surprise me by answering these questions, can you hear the chorus of other investors during this period while DS is fighting for his innocence against a wicked DPP?
To me the DPP Paula Lewellin seems to be very balanced. Take a look at her ruling in the Janice Allen case. As much as we all wanted to see justice done concerning this little girls terrible demise. In the face of much public outcry the DPP stood her ground saying she lacked enough evidence for conviction. And even then, you could tell that it behooved her to arrive at that decision.
Very interesting reading today guys.
Peace
@nocotec
What you suggest might work, but once an authority has responsibility for criminal prosecutions of a serious nature (ie, other than things like parking tickets), a number of important constitutional considerations come into play and the picture gets a bit more muddy and decisive action gets reserved for only the egregious cases. For regulators, you want them to act early and act fast. sometimes at that stage there may not be enough evidence of a crime. In fact, early action has been found to deter crime or reduce the occurence of serious crime. This is usually preferred in investment markets.
I still prefer the idea of strengthening civil remedies. For example, imagine if the FSC had gone to court to freeze Olint’s assets in 2006 on the basis that it was acting illegally. In america, the SEC routinely does this by asking the court to 1. forbid the entity from continuing the illegal action and 2. in order to stop it from disobeying, freeze its assets. This happens relatively quickly, even before a criminal case can be built.
When is the call-in program that Bruce always sits in on?
-Söze
Mr Soze,
I think its the last Wednesday of every month, can anyone confirm this.
ter, on July 10th, 2009 at 12:04 am Said:
“I call MTI pretending that I had heard through the grapevine that there would be classes in JA. I told them that I heard that some great trader by the name (acted like i wasn’t sure) David Shultz was teaching. Shortly later, I found out it was Jareds Martinezes daughter I was talking to. She said that I must be speaking of David Smith. I said ” yes, that’s it”. She said “No, he isn’t teaching.” I asked who David was then. She said he was a student there at one time. “he is an excellent trader, and a very smart businessman.””
Some people like to put their foot into their mouth.
You repeat what you hear minus 20% accuracy. Where would she have heard this from?
to AML,
You said,
“Some people like to put their foot into their mouth.
You repeat what you hear minus 20% accuracy. Where would she have heard this from?”
Could you please elaborate to me what this statement means? Appreciate it. -Ter
@Bob
Keeping the regulator limited to civil proceedings does have a lot of merit because it is a faster procedure. One issue with gov employees and bureaucrats is that they are usually very territorial and do not often extend beyond their mandate. In the case of the FSC they may simply have felt their role was limited to the determination of whether DS and Olint/Lewfam were violating securities laws. And when the crescendo of leave Olint and us alone started, it may have given them further incentive not to go any further.
I also think we may be getting sidetracked from the real issue. In countries like the USA and Canada among many others, if the regulator issues a cease and desist order this would be sufficient for folks to stop investing and demand their money… followed up by a crescendo to prosecute the criminal.
In JA the issue has less to do with the FSC or police but with problems with Jcans which are cultural. The same cease and desist order by the regulator causes Jcans to turn on the regulator and other authorities demanding that they and the criminal be left alone to ply his trade while they increase their rate of investing.
At the end Jcans flip and then blame the same authorities for their demise. The problem is not really with the actions of the regulator and police or gov but with Jcan investors.
@Tafari.
I see you read Nocotec domestic abuse analogy but you missed the point it seems.
In response to your response to my posts, as MikeD indicated the FSC was not so concerned, at least initially, that OLINT was a PONZI. What they were concerned about was that OLINT was engaging in issuing and dealing in securities without a license.
The question of whether they could use what the found in a criminal case has been discussed extensively. Was it enough to stand as Evidence in a court of Law? In any event they would have to turn that over the the DPP who could then make a ruling.
Secondly, they were challenged for
1. Having the right to raid OLINT
2. Whether in fact OLINT was dealing with securities. Do your investigations and find out about the Court cases involving OLINT&/Lewfam against the FSC along with OLINT against NCB and Cash Plus vs the FSC.
From there you will see why the FSC had to thread cautiously. Naturally given the “big” names on the list, the concern of threading carefully would increase.
Finally the FSC had similar problems with every UFO, it was NOT a OLINT specific thing as BOB and Nocotec have stressed repeatedly
Going further let us look at the following, with regards to UFOs in Jamaica.
Who has been charged in Jamaica?
As others have pointed out, only 2 UFO operators of the post Speedy Cash era have been charged in Jamaica
1. Carlos of Cash Plus
2. Gerald of Financial Partners
Each of these where charged not because of Investors filing complaints with based on which the Fraud Squad could take action and charge the principals
Note: going back, Esmie of Speedy Cash ( in 2001) was charged also along with another operator all when investors filed complaints with the police.
Who has been liquidated in Jamaica
1. Cash Plus
In a strange twist a manager(female) took a request to court to have Cash Plus Company placed in to receivership and the court agreed. That was March 2008.
IN June 2008, the PLCA led by the much maligned Seaga when to court and in a stroke of Genius asked to Court to have the Cash Plus Group of which he Cash Plus Co. Ltd. was a member placed in liquidation for they failing to honour the full terns of a 150 Million agreement. The court granted the request and Cash Plus Group was placed in liquidation.
The lawsuits did nothing to bring about this liquidation and we have heard nothing further about them.
@Jay
Corruptions is a big problem in Jamaica. Eat a food
Excellent points.
@Nocotec.
Excellent post.. domestic abuse analogy…
@MikeD
Right on Point. That is the Key.
“However and this is key, the FSC was NOT focused on proving whether Olint/Lewfam, et. al, were engaged in a Ponzi scheme. Their primary (a sole goal) was the determination of whether these schemes were engage in offering securities to the general public.”
@American Investor…
You heard Maritinez say
“At that course Jared Martinez told us he trained David Smith and that he was one of the best traders in the world.”
@Test
Thanks for honest review of how you decided to invest in OLINT. Congratulations. More investors need to be honest with themselves.
@Bob,@Jay,@Nocotec,@MikeD,@Floridian,@Tafari
Revist this letter by George Roper, ” FSC, Pantry and Olint”
“In outlining his opinion, Pantry queried whether the FSC’s action against Unregulated Investment Schemes and Olint was in keeping with the Securities Act, and suggested that the FSC’s actions actually led to the ‘demise’ of these schemes. The FSC is surprised and deeply concerned with the comments made by Pantry.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090417/letters/letters2.html
Time for research: I ask, does anyone know who Carol Pantry is?
I have nothing for admiration for the position George Roper, (who acted and was never appointed), took considering the nature of the situation and the limited powers of the FSC.
Think and check before you invest.
American Investor is a hero and a prophet.
Bryan Wynter should also be commended. Note this statement in the Observer January 5, 2007
“As long as Olint remains unlicensed, it is not a question of ‘if’, but ‘when’ it will fail,” Wynter states. He continues, “If you are a legitimate company, you are not likely to fail. A licence forces an audit, and no licence means that you don’t have to have your books examined if you don’t feel like it. How does David Smith, principal of Olint, now know if the people close to him are not robbing him blind?”
Further in the article Wynter suggests a few reasons why Olint chose not to become licensed.
“Why isn’t Smith licensed in Jamaica? The likely reasons are as follows:
1. Olint is not doing foreign exchange trading only. Perhaps they are engaged in real estate or other risky ventures.
2. Olint is doing foreign exchange trading. Smith
is sensationally successful and soon to be on Time Magazine.”
And he was not done…PONZI!?
“What is a mystery to me is that people see nothing wrong with no transparency.”
Wynter is determined to crack that mystery. “Has anyone seen the books? They could not tell you if it is a Ponzi scheme, and I am not saying it is. Imagine if a bank worked like that. The balance sheet and income statement matters. Also, what is the investment strategy of Olint?
Serious words from the regulator, that are totally ignored.
Read it here…
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20070104T200000-0500_117455_OBS_OLINT_WILL_FAIL_IF_IT_REMAINS_UNLICENSED___WYNTER.asp
David Mullings writing for Silicon Caribe wrote an excellent piece in December 2007, “Jamaica’s alternative Investment Schemes would be illegal in the USA”
In reporting on George Roper’s response to Question raised at Jamaica Investment Symposium.
Why the FSC cannot “SHUT THEM DOWN
“He made sure to point out that the FSC did in fact issue a cease and desist letter and that the matter was appealed and they await the court ruling in early December. They only have the power to issue the letter and turn over the matter to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). The FSC cannot simply “shut them down”.
http://www.siliconcaribe.com/2007/12/03/jamaicas-alternative-investment-shemes-would-be-illegal-in-the-usa/
@Bob,@Jay,@Nocotec,@MikeD,@Floridian,@Tafari
Revisit this letter by George Roper, ” FSC, Pantry and Olint” April 2009
“In outlining his opinion, Pantry queried whether the FSC’s action against Unregulated Investment Schemes and Olint was in keeping with the Securities Act, and suggested that the FSC’s actions actually led to the ‘demise’ of these schemes. The FSC is surprised and deeply concerned with the comments made by Pantry.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090417/letters/letters2.html
Time for research: I ask, does anyone know who Carol Pantry is?
I have nothing for admiration for the position Bryan Wynter and George Roper, (who acted and was never appointed), took considering the explosive nature of the situation and the limited powers of the FSC.
@Noctec
“At the end Jcans flip and then blame the same authorities for their demise. The problem is not really with the actions of the regulator and police or gov but with Jcan investors.”
Well said
@Bob,@Jay,@Nocotec,@MikeD,@Floridian,@Ter
BTW guys. Excellent discussions. I have been reading but I have been very busy to post..
@AML
Interesting input as usual.
New details in second Caribbean Ponzi scheme
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20090710T020000-0500_155105_OBS_NEW_DETAILS_IN_SECOND_CARIBBEAN_PONZI_SCHEME.asp
John Doe
Smith had said out of his own mouth that FSC people had money in Olint. Look at the board at the time. It’s not hard to see.
Yes the news media will try join the wagon. They have a lot to lose. Blocking or standing in the way may well continue. Ego is hell of a thing.
The hard way then.
AML
Things are going to move very fast.
One has to be so cautious about ones investment, and as I posted earlier this week, the rate of detection of ponzi schemes has been the fastest in recent times.
Now you can see all who were “swimming naked”.
As bad as it may sound, this global recession has been “god send” as without it, people would have likely lost tens of billions more as time went along, and these crooks would not have been exposed.
Out of every bad situation usually comes some good.
In the latest ponzi scheme, it appears that the auditors feel asleep (PWC).
http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/07/10/Fallout_from_Petters_Alleged_Ponzi_Scam.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8144361.stm
He told audience that although he recognised that the TCI was effectively broke, the UK tax payers would not be ‘dipping into their pockets’ to fund its financial recovery which had been caused by the ‘mismanagement of public’ funds.
Mr Roberts said: “You want people in the UK – who are paying income tax rates of up to 40 percent or more – to pay for you?”
http://www.suntci.com/index.php?p=story&id=210
Roberts further stated: “It is an enormous pity that with all the millions – billions of dollars – flowing through this territory in recent years the government is effectively bankrupt.This is fixable and we will fix it.”
SUSPENDING the constitution is an “extremely serious move” that is “absolutely essential” in order to restore the integrity of the country.
Talking to the Weekly News on Wednesday, Mr Roberts said he believed the “deeply shocking” information that came out from the Commission of Inquiry required a “very radical and drastic response.”
“That is the only appropriate way of dealing with the seriousness of the wrongdoing that appears to have taken place in the Turks and Caicos,” Mr Roberts said.
He added that over the next two years “a big leap forward” will be made in terms of transparency and there is a “fantastic opportunity” to turn the TCI into one of the most transparent countries in the world.
It is extremely important that all information about Government finances, Government proposals and use of Government money is made available to the people TCI, he said.
“There is a lot more information that should be made available to the public so that they can see what the Government is doing.”
Mr Roberts said that Sir Robin Auld had revealed a number of systemic problems which enabled “wrong-doing” to take place.
He said the FCO would “make it our business to ensure that these reforms are carried out.”
http://www.tcweeklynews.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1390&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2404&hn=tcweeklynews&he=.com
Smithy you put all the big belongerships under pressure.
We have to be even more concerned when we realise that our transport network passes either through the US or the UK to access the rest of the world. When you start to have a narrowing of access, the implications are quite far-reaching.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/lead/lead5.html
End tyranny, corruption, Obama tells Africa
“No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves, or if police can be bought off…”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/news/news2.html
“…Mr Hibbert nor the rest of the Government, and in particular Prime Minister Golding, can any longer ignore the seriousness of the investigations, which have been linked to a relatively senior member of the administration, who sits in a position of public trust, in command of public resources. Not in the face of developments at the Westminster magistrates’ court in London on Friday.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/cleisure/cleisure1.html
gInvestigation
This settlement, however, ought not to be the remit solely of the authorities in the UK. The Jamaican authorities have a stake in the case, which is perhaps why the Office of the Contractor General and the Commission for the Prevention of Corruption may consider it worthy to launch such an investigation. We expect that Mr Hibbert would welcome such a move, which would give him a better opportunity to clear his name.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/cleisure/cleisure1.htmlb
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/cleisure/cleisure5.html
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/cleisure/cleisure2.html
Bunting, in his contribution to the Sectoral Debate in Gordon House on Tuesday, said it was important to insulate political parties from questionable funding sources.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/letters/letters4.html
Yesterday Shaw stressed that the talks in Washington are merely exploratory, but that has found little resonance with Opposition spokesman on Finance, Dr Omar Davies.
“The prime minister has said to the group working towards a social partnership that they have to hurry to get their application in because others are in the line ahead of them … I don’t know what he means by exploratory. That is a totally different view-point from what the prime minister has expressed,”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/lead/lead2.html
When jackass proclaimed that the world was not level, he knew what he was talking about. While Minister Don Wehby went off to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Government let slip the shocking news that we had a revenue shortfall of $2.47 billion for May.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/cleisure/cleisure2.html
“How come?” they ask. “Minister Don Wehby, who will be leaving the Government in less than three weeks, is the one leading the negotiations?”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090712/cleisure/cleisure5.html
The jury is out on how much investors will be able to recoup after Cash Plus is liquidated. According to PwC, investors stand to gain anywhere between five and 16 cents on the dollar.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20090711T190000-0500_155188_OBS_CASH_PLUS_INVESTORS_TO_RECOUP_AS_LITTLE_AS___CENTS_ON_THE_DOLLAR_.asp
This is quite funny and ironic. C+ was the downtown man’s ponzi while Olint was the smart uptown man’s fx investment. Remember the DC Olint pr machine via Wignall et.al…. C+ had no business model but how liquid the fx markets are and how much of a genius trader DS was… LOL.
Turns out that because Carlos’ sham was a business conglomerate… some of the money was spent acquiring real assets for the sham companies to make the scam look believable. These real assets can sold and so using the mid range of the estimate, C+ investors may get back about 10 cents on the dollar.
I wonder how much the upscale genius Olint investors will get back… Anyone want to wager the downscale C+ investors will get back more?
Bob:
Thanks for the input. I have a little understanding of what the climate was in JA at the time having googled “Olint” extensively back in 08.
Although the FSC was looking for evidence it appears that documents were seized and an “investigation” was conducted.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060308/business/business5.html
With what we know today ( that the guy was not even trading) it is highly improbable that these finance industry regulators would not see the red flag.
So we assume they did. Would it matter that the public outcry was “leave david alone”? The operation of a ponzi scheme is fraudulent and as such a crime in most jurisdictions. One would therefore assume that there would be laws on the books in Ja under which he could have been prosecuted.
I have however heard some commentary regarding this issue where someone suggested that the laws in Jamaica regarding such issues “is new”?
Maybe you can enlighten me.
On the other hand, we could also assume that they raided with armed police, made copies of documents, looking for evidence of a specific violation and ignored all evidence of other misdeeds.
But that would not be a reasonable assumption except one believes that David Smith was very good at cover-up.
So let us assume that he was good at cover-up. Why was the TCI FCU able to find evidence of criminal activity?
Well, one or a combination of things has to be true:
– David Smith could got sloppy.
– The TCI FCU is smarter than the Jamaican FSC and police.
– David Smith was legitimate in Jamaica and turned roguein the TCI.
– The FSC did uncover evidence of a ponzi but elected or were pressured to do nothing about it.
The word on the street, however, is that there were other more sinister reasons why a referral for criminal charges was not made.
The information I have sem to suggest that the decision was made at the “highest levels”.
Not as a justification, but purely as a reason for making a poor investment decision, and in response to your question Nocotec and Bob, therein lies one of the reason why I chose to invest.
At the time, I was sure that whatever Olint was, it was not a ponzi. I rationalised that even though the guys was in violation of some securities act, he wasn’t thief or they would have found him out in the raid.
Now I learn that they did. And did nothing about it.
That’s difficult to accept….almost as infuriating as losing the money.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20060312T150000-0500_100562_OBS_OLINT_SUES_FSC_FOR______MILLION.asp
Bob:
This is one of the articles I read in January 08……………
Now that I know (thanks to this blog) that Jamaica is a melting pot of corruption. With my new found understanding of how the media operates there, I can see how “stupid” (your word Nocotec) i really was to trust my money to david Smith.
Even today, the police chief is denying claims that they received any complaints of wrongdoing by Olint. I know this to be a lie. A complaint was sent from an attorney hand-delivered ( signed for by the desk Sgt) to the police in Kingston.
Even today friends, with the guy arrested and charged, and with a negative court ruling and his company (ponzi scheme) in liquidation, the jamaica authorities still refuses to take action.
Why the cover-up? Is it just because of the 12 million we hear about? Well, is it?
I dare say there is more to it than that. But it is unlikely we will read about that on this blog, right Nocotec?
It was not the TCI FCU that charged DS. It was the police. Like the SEC, like the FSC, the FCU are primarily concerned with civil enforcement of securities laws.
It is not entirely unusual for the operators of ponzi scheme to go undetected by regulators for a period. Madoff was investigated by the SEC and was not discovered. Just this past week the head of the SEC department responsible for investigating Madoff was forced to resign.
You can keep looking for fault with the regulators until the cows come home but the fact are there. The regulator took action. When a regulator issues a cease and desist order if you still invest and or you are not running for the door… you need to have your head examined.
To now say, well he was not criminally charged so I thought it was ok is nuts. Revisionist history can always be made to look great. If he had been criminally charged we would have heard the same nonsense by many… They are just fighting DS because they do not want him to help the small man… he has not been found guilty. If he had been found guilty… it will be reversed on appeal and on and on.
If a cease and desist order was not enough to scare off investors, what would have been enough? Maybe if he had been convicted of a capital crime? In JA, for many that would still not have been enough.
nocotec, on July 12th, 2009 at 8:23 am Said:
It was not the TCI FCU that charged DS. It was the police. Like the SEC, like the FSC, the FCU are primarily concerned with civil enforcement of securities laws.
//////////////////
WRONG AGAIN!!
The TCI FCU Is the financial crimes unit of the Turks and Caicos police. It is the TCI FCU that raided OLINT TCI. Mark Knighton is the Assistant Superintendent of Police of the FCU. Mr. Lecturer know it all….
nocotec, on July 12th, 2009 at 8:45 am Said:
It is not entirely unusual for the operators of ponzi scheme to go undetected by regulators for a period. Madoff was investigated by the SEC and was not discovered. Just this past week the head of the SEC department responsible for investigating Madoff was forced to resign.
/////////////////
Dumbo:
They raided his office and got computers, document, transaction records.
The SEC NEVER raided Madoff’s office.
I know why you are trying so hard……Laughable!
nocotec, on July 12th, 2009 at 8:45 am Said:
It is not entirely unusual for the operators of ponzi scheme to go undetected by regulators for a period. Madoff was investigated by the SEC and was not discovered. Just this past week the head of the SEC department responsible for investigating Madoff was forced to resign.
////////////////////
WRONG AGAIN?
The SEC did NOT investigate Madoff. In fact, the whistle blower, Harry Markopolos, testified before congress telling lawmakers on the House Financial Services subcommittee that the SEC was not competent enough to know that Madoff’s business was built on fraud and that the agency was unlikely to investigate someone so prominent in the financial world.
Here is an article from the Washington Post proving you a liar Nocotec.
SEC Didn’t Act on Madoff Tips
Regulator Was Warned About Possible Fraud as Early as 1999
The Securities and Exchange Commission learned about what it describes as one of the largest securities frauds in history when Bernard L. Madoff volunteered his confession, raising questions about the agency’s ability to police the financial marketplace.
The SEC had the authority to investigate Madoff’s investment business, which managed billions of dollars for wealthy investors and philanthropies. Financial analysts raised concerns about Madoff’s practices repeatedly over the past decade, including a 1999 letter to the SEC that accused Madoff of running a Ponzi scheme. But the agency did not conduct even a routine examination of the investment business until last week.
On Thursday, Madoff was charged with securities fraud after telling his sons that he had taken $50 billion from investors. The list of victims ranges from some of the world’s largest banks to small charities. The Securities Investor Protection Corp., which offers limited protection to brokerage customers in cases of fraud, said yesterday that it would liquidate the company, Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities.
Multiple investigations are just beginning. Investigators have not said when they believe Madoff began the fraudulent practice of using new investments to pay existing investors. It is not clear how much money was lost or how many people were involved.
But there is the beginning of an explanation as to how so many people failed to spot the alleged fraud.
Madoff may have avoided scrutiny, regulatory experts said, in part because he simultaneously operated a legitimate, regulated and high-profile business as one of the largest middlemen between the buyers and sellers of stock. In that role, he helped to create Nasdaq, the first electronic stock exchange, and advised the SEC on electronic trading issues. He was a large campaign contributor and a familiar of senior regulators.
“Bernie had a good reputation at the SEC with a lot of highly placed people as an innovator as somebody who speaks his mind and knows what’s going on in the industry. I think he was seen as a valuable resource to the commission in its deliberations on things like market data,” said Donald C. Langevoort, a Georgetown University law professor who specializes in securities regulation and served with Madoff on an SEC advisory committee.
At the same time, Madoff’s separate investment business operated on the outskirts of regulation, during a period when the government has intentionally allowed private, unregulated transactions. Private investment pools, such as hedge funds, are subject to limited oversight, and Madoff constructed his investment business to avoid most of it. The SEC said Madoff did not register with it as an investment adviser until September 2006.
Finally, experts say the Madoff case may simply point to the inherent limits of regulation.
“The SEC going back to its formation, and the Justice Department going back to its formation, are never adequate to crime at its time. It’s simplistic to look back and say that this was the SEC’s fault,” said former SEC chairman Arthur Levitt, who knew Madoff when both worked on Wall Street and consulted with him while at the SEC. “A very skillful criminal can almost always outfox the regulator or the overseer.”
Ira Lee Sorkin, an attorney for Madoff, has said Madoff’s firm is cooperating fully with the government in its investigation. Madoff has been released on bail.
Madoff’s business as a middleman, or broker-dealer, was subject to regular scrutiny by the SEC, including a routine examination in 2005 that identified some problems and a 2007 investigation that was closed without any further action.
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You seem to be a well read man, Nocotec. So why wouldn’t you take two minutes to check the facts before writing such BLATANT LIES?
It is because you have a vested interest in disproving that the JA authorities knew about DS and did nothing.
But which political crony are you trying so hard to protect? I wonder.
Nocotec wrote:
If a cease and desist order was not enough to scare off investors, what would have been enough? Maybe if he had been convicted of a capital crime? In JA, for many that would still not have been enough.
/////////////////////
You know what? Maybe it would have been enough. You are so bullheaded that you assume that ALL Olint investors are idiots.
The cease and desist order was not enough and that’s that. Criminal charges against him would not only have deterred new investors but would have made the stupid lies we hear now (like from Lewfam) sound ridiculous.
Many of your postings Nocotec, are premised by the position that everyone who invested in Olint is stupid and prone to be swindled again.
I say to that: you are a selfrighteous, pompous, bullheaded A$$#%!&.
@ Tafari says “The cease and desist order was not enough and that’s that.”.
Tafari, why was this not enough. ok here is a copy of the cease and desist order, re-read it.
FSC ISSUES CEASE AND DESIST ORDERS
March 24, 2006
The Financial Services Commission (“FSC”),in accordance with section 68(1B) of the Securities Act, issued cease and desist orders on Friday, March 24, 2006 to the following entities:
• OLINT Corp. Limited
• Overseas Locket International Corp.
• LewFam Investments and Trading Limited
• LewFam Investments Club
The decision to issue cease and desist orders was based on the conclusions of an investigation by the FSC in the course of which evidence was obtained from search warrants executed on Friday, March 3, 2006 at the offices of LewFam Investments and Trading Limited and OLINT Corp. Limited and on Monday, March 6, 2006 at another office of OLINT Corp.Limited.
The information indicates that these entities, while they purport to be carrying out foreign currency trading activities, are engaged in securities activities in breach of sections 7 and 8 of the Securities Act. These sections prohibit the carrying on of a securities or investment advice business without being licensed to do so by the FSC.
Failure to comply with these orders is an offence under section 68(7) of the Securities Act and is punishable upon conviction by a fine or imprisonment or both.
The Commission is advising the public to refrain from investing with or through persons who are not licensed or registered under the Securities Act.
@Tafari
Please explain what you mean by “violation of some securities act”? You don’t appear to regard it as particularly important.
You also seem to believe that thieves are habitually caught and sent to jail once the police (or the regulators in this case) find evidence of a crime (even in a non-corrupt system that is efficient). I get the feeling that you are ignoring the point I made about the burden of proof. I don’t think you are giving any weight at all to the points I made about the difference between information and evidence. You are also, I think, ignoring the fact that courts nearly always need to see real human beings testifying before they will convict a man or woman of a serious crime (CSI notwithstanding). Maybe the blogs do not convey the climate sufficiently but I suspect that others will tell you that the chance of someone coming forward to testify against Olint or Lewfam any time before Olint stopped paying in late 2007/early 2008 were probably zero. Even now, we talk about whether one or two or five or six people may have come forward and leap at conspiracies to besmirch the names of the very people we expect to do their duty. Not every witness is useful no matter how passionate he or she feels. Not every witness is considered as likely to be credible before the court (and after cross-examination by the other side), no matter how much the prosecutor or police may believe him. But here’s the worry that I would have if I were in charge of this investigation: given the scale of the apparent fraud, why don’t I have scores or hundreds of complainants to choose from? This is a puzzling aspect of the fraud, puzzling for the liquidators too, hence the subject of this particular blog.
You mentioned “red flags” a few times. These are very important. But nobody will ever be convicted of a crime based on red flags. Red flags are not evidence. Red flags are important precisely because of the enormous difficulty of ever getting evidence of these frauds (before they crash, that is). Red flags are used by regulators to help them to know when to take action even when everybody else is yelling at them that they are wrong. Red flags and the FSC’s action saved many investors.
One of the most important red flags for the public is regulatory action. That is why regulators broadcast their actions.
But we know all this and it makes no sense to spend time calling each other names. The discussion today and yesterday has been very interesting and enlightening. Why don’t we keep the tone a little higher just to see if we can learn more from each other in this discussion?
If persons had followed the FSC instructions, we would not be here today saying who did or did not do what, and so many people would not have lost so much.
The mere fact that people are saying this order was not enough, places them in a position to once again invest in a company that may have a run in with the regulators on a new financial product that the regulator has jurisdiction over , and for the the entity thinks the regulator is wrong.
Tafari, this is for you
Click to access Investor%20Scams%20in%20the%20%20Caribbean%20-%20Jamaica%20-%20George%20Roper.pdf
@ Tafari, here is the word from one investor and BTW it was printed in the Jamaica Gleaner.
FUNDS TRANSFERRED
It is understood that funds collected in United States currency in Jamaica are ultimately transferred to a Panamanian bank.
“You know, my friend told me about this place they don’t advertise. And it was always strange to me how such steady returns of over 10 per cent per month were being made. I even asked for a financial statement from the company and couldn’t get one. And so I became increasingly uncomfortable because the returns are too good to be real. And so while I did make money, I decided to get out.
“But a lot of my friends are still in this investment house because they have become addicted to the returns.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/efg/10-Mar-06/localnews/local1.htm
Johndoe, do recall ever coming across this feeder club for Olint.
I cannot recall seeing their name before.
http://globalgains.net/index.swf
Never heard of them!!!
I spoke with my girlfriend in the USA.
She told me a group of investors have retained the largest law firm- Bondurant Mixson Elmore LLP, to represent them against:
MasterCard, Hallmark Bank, The BOJ, JLP, David Smith,Wayne Smith,OLINT,MTI and Jared Martinez.
You know, 6 months ago I would have been in your corner Yana. But what you ALL did to people, including some who thought you were a friend, can NEVER be forgiven.
In fact, I am trying to come up with some cash to join the Atlanta group of investors. It is not only about the money now but also the principle. We must all come together to bring all the players to justice, including you.
Tafari: – The TCI FCU is smarter than the Jamaican FSC and police.
1. As usual you will never get it. Why are you comparing the TCI police operation with the FSC. The relevant comparison is with police to police and regulator to regulator. These bodies serve different purposes.
By the way do you believe you are the first dude I have come across whose peanut brain sets out about trying to examine everything I say to find an error. Your peanut brain gets into a Pavlovian mode where its reward and vindication for its existence is about trying to find a mistake in any of my statements :-). Ok, dude today you get to have a cookie. And Oh, I suppose the point of our discussions was to see who could identify the initials of the world’s regulators and their fraud squads… lol
2. Alas here we go again… one thing about someone like you is one can keep always keep a discussion going if one tries to respond to your lack of knowledge and understanding.
In the Madoff case the SEC looked into the allegations but determined that they were not worth pursuing… One reason the head of the department was forced to resign. Further if you actually did read more you will find that the SEC over the years has actually been in his office multiple times investigating his Broker operations.
He was able to camouflage the ponzi operation on another floor in the office to which few people had access as this was the secret trading room. One operation served as a front for the ponzi scheme. In fact if you read …. some Wall Street types who invested and lost thought he was doing something illegal but the illegal activity they thought he was doing was front running. They thought he was illegally using the brokerage’s access to customer trades to buy and sell the same securities before filling the customer’s order.
3. Now lest we get sidetracked…. If a cease and desist order was not enough what would have been… after losing money some investors set about trying to demonize the regulators and police…
Ineffective as the police can be… Who can blame them for not dedicating their resources to investigate what at the time could be classified as a ‘phantom crime’… There was a crime with no victims… none came forward… rather all victims in a unanimous voice declared, leave us alone… there is no crime here… why don’t you leave DS and go investigate real crime… just because DS is helping us get rich, grudgeful and bad minded people want set police upon him.
By the way did you notice how long after executing the raid it was before the TCI police filed charges… Did you also notice that the same TCI police you have off as smarter or less corrupt than JA police did not move on DS until the scheme formally crashed and victims came forward to file complaints? Did you also notice that they are only concerned with Olint TCI, the company in their jurisdiction? Did you also notice they are not in JA investigating Olint JA or Olint Panama?
As I have pointed out… unless a crime exceeds certain parameters or is a certain type, it is very unusual for police to dedicate resources investigating crimes across borders. DS and Olint are not the only ones in JA where investors face the same problem. When the perpetrators move. Usually it will be the police in their new country pursuing crimes committed in or against their residents that has to take up the ball.
There many similar examples to DS in JA, such as Lewfam, Higgins Warner and MayDaisy… yet people like Tafari choose to ignore that reality and focus like it is DS only… Or are you saying Max Higgins, the Major and Ingrid Loiten bribed politicians and the JA police too?
Now which part of this from the regulator was insufficient… How much clearer could the regulator have been… In case you do not know every word in these type of releases is carefully chosen. To an intelligent person reading this sentence… who was not seeking to simply discredit and vilify the regulator it was crystal clear… my emphasis.
The information indicates that these entities, while they PURPORT to be carrying out foreign currency trading activities, are engaged in securities activities in breach of sections 7 and 8 of the Securities Act.
This is legal jargon of the FSC telling anyone that wanted to listen that dude is not doing what he is claiming. The regulator then goes on to unequivocally urge the public to refrain from investing.
The Commission is advising the public to refrain from investing with or through persons who are not licensed or registered under the Securities Act.
This was not enough so now that many investors have lost money they want to blame the authorities for what… not giving you a whack over the head then taken your money from you and hid until this was over?
Cricket Pal: …MasterCard, Hallmark Bank, The BOJ, JLP, David Smith,Wayne Smith,OLINT,MTI and Jared Martinez….
Some of the groups at the head of the line are iffy that they will be found liable… but it is usual in these cases that the lawyers will name everyone and hope something sticks to someone with deep pockets. This has to be weighed against the bill that a law firm like this is running up…
A deep pocketed firm like Mastercard will respond with high powered talent and consume a lot of time and money… Unless they were to decide the amount was small enough to settle. But on the surface it is hard to see how they were part of a conspiracy with DS.
Missing from this list are the feeder clubs. But I suppose a decision was made that they do not have enough resources to make it worthwhile. Hopefully you guys prevail before the firms at the head of your line above drain your resources.
This is a rather interesting article.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant?currentPage=all
@Tafari,
Nocotec was wrong re:FCU. The FCU is different form the TCI FSC.
The TCI FCU is financial crime units sort of like the fraud squad in Jamaica.
Your clarification alas exactly supports Nocotec’s and others point hence the general assertion remains true. It was the POlice , the TCI FCU that arrested and charged David Smith in the TCI not the TCI Financial Services Commision (FSC).
How did they(TCI FCU) do it?
Becuase People filed serious complaints that they were not being paid!. As simple as that. OLINT investors for the most part stopped being paid after December 2007.
The problem of lack of complaints persist. Even now the liquidator is complaining that people are NOT coming forward and filing claims.
Again keep in mind what MikeD said regarding th FSC’s action in 2006
“Their primary (a sole goal) was the determination of whether these schemes were engage in offering securities to the general public.”
Hey Guys,
Not to derail the conversation but I just found the following on the Jamaica Gleaner in the “something extra” section which some time ago featured the launching of the Olint Foundation….my my my what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to deceive…..I must say that thanks to this blog I can now have a sense of humour about these things…thank you all for you wonderful discourses that have gone a long way to put things into perspective for me
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071129/ent/ent2.html
The climate in Jamaica 2006-2008 with regards to UFOs can simply described as such:
Anti-Regulator, Anti BANK, Anti-Lee Chin Anti-Bill Clarke, Anti anyone anti-UFO
The Jamaica situation was different. In March 2006 OLINT investors where happy. The regulators and those that spoke out where chastised. The POLICE had no claims, no evidence.
So bad was the climate that is alleged that a prominent investment banker at the time preferred to use a jumbled name to express his opinion rather that be publicly associated with his anti-OLINT position. Tafari find that article. People where warned of charlatans.
Did you read George Roper’s letter in the Gleaner regard the former DPP’s comment?
Also keep in mind that the problem was not OLINT specific. It related to every other UFO opertating at the time.
Interested:
It is indeed a funny retrospective. It is always amazing in a retrospective look back at how brazen the perpetrators are… not to mention how tuned in everyone was at slopping up the scam. It now seems like it was an eternity ago.
Nocotec
How the Belongership case going to go?
I would not be too sure about the iffyness of some defendants. You might be surprised what goes on behind closed doors.
The largest financial Law firm in the world has been on the case from your days at cricket. Don’t you see how many of smith’s lawyers have split? More will beg to leave.
Hotel California. Check out any time you like. But you can never leave.
Interested
Cricket pal is still in shock trying to rconcile the date of the Foundation ceremony and the date of the Lee Oakley Email.
@Floridian
LOL…DWL
You know Floridian I was wondering when that was going to be picked up….
When Smith was asked if he could use some help help he missed the point of the question.
Interested
Raw data is one thing…enough said.
@Floridian,
With regards to that infamous e-mail why were those people singled out to receive it? Were they really close to the Smiths and warranted special attention?
Outside of his newly minted ‘friends’ of recent years Oakley is as close as it gets.
But some others know much more of the man himself.
The trail of regulatory action against OLINT or related companies was not limited to Jamaica either. Tafari, given your resources, contact the
– Superindent of banks in Panama (http://www.superbancos.gob.pa/advertencia/list.asp)
– The FSC in St. Kitts (http://www.skbfinancialservices.com/advisory.php)
People simply did not listen to the regulator
If a company is issued a Cease and Desist Order, there is absolute NO WAy they are getting my money. If I had any money in that company my money would be withdrawn immediately once I can get it.
As Jay said, If persons had followed the FSC instructions, we would not be here today saying who did or did not do what, and so many people would not have lost so much.
On another note, One of the lawyers involved in many of the lawsuits against David Smith is one David P. Rowe. You should contact him and find out if he is the same person who was the author of a peice in the Sunday Herald in Jamaica entitled “Eating Dirt” in 2006. You might want to get your hand on that article.
John Doe
Another good thing to get your hands on is the SunTCI listings of those persons granted belongerships in the TCI. All are interesting. The one in early 2008 is a collectors item now.
Interested
You have the one who Smithy bought land on chaulk sound for but he’s not well.
You have a ‘pig’ who moved to TCI but Smithy does not care about him for Smithy does not explain certain things to that one. I’ve never met him. Maybe one day.
As JohnDoe and Nocotec has said, people seem to have a fixation on Olint as it relates to the regulator, and has Nocotec correctly put it: “Olint was for the smart uptown and sophisticated individual” , while CashPlus was for the poor and unsophisticated investor.
Well it appears that those in CashPlus can see some actual assets purchased by CashPlus and which are saleable, but where are the Olint assets.
Oh according to Lewfam, the funds are with the trading platform, when I read the letter I wondered if this guy did not get drunk drinking koolaid laced with JB rum. 🙂
John Doe
If certain FSC staff and associated persons did not make it a point to ‘roll’ with Smith I think that their calamity now might not have ever come about.
Jay
Olint funds purchased assets too. All over.
Floridian,
I don’t think Olint Investors will be getting their hands on any of those assets.
Pity. I feel it for them. Sometimes.
Many of them are not that different from Smithy. Naive.
To have such assets in one’s name comes with responsibility. Keep them.
Yana,
When I was defending you and the rest of the crew, little did I realise that what was being said was TRUE.
How could you all proclaim to be Christians and be involved in Prostitution.
Do not tell me you had no idea David is an owner of Platinum night club. I also heard he has one on Deanery Road.
He soon found himself trafficking white girls, being a major supplier of Eastern European girls using the private jet to shuttle the Russian girls to parties in the TCI. These girls were also being used for “services” at Platinum.
So what, Jamaican girls like myself are no longer attractive to men like David. I suppose we are too God fearing and descent!!!. Well women like myself will never lower myself into the gutter into which you, Tracey and the Smith brothers are in. I am a proud Christian Jamaican woman.
It all makes sense now. At the beginning we were good enough to be friends and hang out but as the money rolled in, then you, David and the rest of the crew had to be seen in the company of “white” people.
I tell you something. Those new friends you all sought out, will be testifying against all of you when the time comes.
One of the “girls” lives in DR and is going to testify about David’s involvement in White Slavery and human trafficking.
Girlfriend, I am going to Church tonight to pray specially for you and the rest of the Smith family.
Pastor needs to remove the demon from within your souls. You ALL MUST BE POSSESSED !!!!!
Cricketpal,
this is in NO WAY meant to be offensive, but from your post I’m not sure which one offended you. The fact that Mr. Smith & Co. were invovled with prostitution, transporting Russian women, etc? or the fact that they chose the company of ‘white’ people (as you put it) over good ol fashioned ‘Jamaican women?’?
Cynic
Some ‘Christians’ you have to take with a grain of salt. Calamity brings out true colours.
IF this whole Olint/Cashplus/World Wise/May Daisy/F1 etc debacle has done NOTHING else, it has taught many people lessons they will carry with them for the rest of their/our lives. For the young people who were lucky enough to learn these things at an age when they can recover what they lost multiple times over, count your blessing, don’t forget the lessons and move on.
For the older people who have lost a lifetime of hard work and sweat in what is relatively the blink of an eye… it’s sad, but it could be worse.
For those that have not only learned the lesson but are actively trying to ensure that at the very least, this round of criminals won’t end up reaping the benefits of their crimes, you are the real examples of what good citizens should be (even if for some it’s really just a matter of self interest).
Through this blog and others we’ve seen how corrupt some people are, we’ve learned that in large part the things we read in the papers are no more reliable that the front cover of the national enquirer. YEARS of credibility I HOPE have been lost and its only a shame that the FACT that our media is merely an extension of PR firms may never be more widespread that the to the readers of these blogs. For maybe if it WERE more widespread, people would be held accountable, and we would have the beginnings of reform at those agencies. Though these blogs are LITTERED with rumours, speculation and inaccuracies, they have done FAR MORE to reveal the truth about OLINT, C+, Govt. behaviour (can I get a copy of the next manifesto when it’s being email about?) and just how corrupt and twisted our society really is.
In all this NOBODY involved is free of blame. Yes the ponzi runners didn’t have to cash the cheques, YES they had well connected PR schemers on their side, YES there was a host of favorable ‘talk’ out in the streets, but, at the end of the day there were JUST as many people speaking out AGAINST these scams, JUST as many articles, papers and examples clearly demonstrating that these things were more than likely too good to be true. But for whatever reason we gamblers/investors/club members choose to believe one side over another, so in this we must take responsibility for our choice and not try to absolve ourselves and shift the entirety of the blame to others.
(which is not to say i don’t want to see Mr. Smith and Co go to prison for a LONG TIME )
To the people that don’t have the resources to file law suits, but still refuse to band together to file group claims… maybe a possible solution is to simple not support the companies of those who have CLEARLY benefits and taken part in the perpetrating of these scams. Maybe a quiet (or not so quiet) boycotting of whatever companies these scammers own, be it gas stations, pharmacies, meat farms, whatever, is the best solution for you.
All in all this is has been most expensive and entertaining lesson in my life thus far.
All Jamaicans should be ashamed of any form of slavery.David
@Floridian
Know anything about Stoneridge?
Ignoring issues of “registration of securities” and “licensing” requirements, is it inherently ILLEGAL to run a Ponzi Scheme? I might be wrong; I have yet to see anyone charge for running a Ponzi (specific charge) in the US or anywhere for that matter. Tafari?
I think if there was not a financial meltdown in 2008, Madoff would still be in business for yet another 30-years and would in all likelihood be a free man today!
Can a Ponzi Scheme continue into perpetuity? So, if “investors” are getting their money into and out of a scheme, can one legally shut down such a Ponzi?
@theCynic
One of the greatest lessons you can take away from this are the dangers of group think. One of my father’s favorite sayings he preached to us was, “show me the company you keep and I will tell you who you are”.
There is actually a reason built into the DNA code why this is true. Human DNA code s only about 5 % different from the higher primates. If you look throughout the animal kingdom all the way from the lowly ant you will see they operate in groups and often with a pack leader.
Humans have the same thing coded in our dna, we have a need to associate with folks with similar views. Notice how this was evident as the investors loved to gather together in places like DC’s # 4 blog. Investors that did any research essentially listened only to similar views and ignored or skipped any contrarian views.
Notice something about me… I have 2 distinct persona on the blogs. When I am responding to someone seeking info I have a tone of someone providing info in a helpful fashion. When a fool tangles with me, I am very abrasive. Why? I have no compelling need to associate myself with idiots because the only way you can be friends with them is to be just as stupid or at least pretend to be. I do not care if they like me or not.
The need to feel that you belong can really lead to disaster. You go along with group think because you do not want to rock the boat and you start thinking… so many people cannot be wrong. You lose independent thinking and get dumbed down by the group.
The moral is never be afraid to be independent and be your own pack leader. Do not worry if you are alone, if you are right eventually other smart people will join your pack.
@MikeD
There is generally no law that specifically defines a ponzi scheme and then says it is illegal. However there are many different statutes that make a ponzi scheme illegal. Recall that a ponzi scheme is always based on the principal claiming to do some type of activity which generates returns usually too good to be true. Now if they are doing what they claim, then it is not a ponzi scheme.
This means they are always subject to charges like obtaining money under false pretenses and fraudulent conversion. These are always illegal. So, yes even if the ponzi has not crashed it is illegal and can be shut down and the principals subject to criminal charges.
Interested
I think Olintja.com will tell you about that place and pictures.
Here is an interesting observation. Shows what happens when you let your political beliefs and affiliations get in the way of logic. It is clear from the Docs letters that he particularly hates the JLP and appears to be a PNP supporter.
These are the folks that are apparently being sued in the Olint saga… MasterCard, Hallmark Bank, The BOJ, JLP, David Smith,Wayne Smith,OLINT,MTI and Jared Martinez.
Why is the PNP not included? Think about it… they are alleging that there was a grand conspiracy that enabled Olint to flourish and prevented DS from being charged. From reports we have seen apparently the JLP got US $12 million from DS and the PNP US $200,000. US $200K is not small change in JA.
Olint flourished while the PNP was in power. The JLP got the $12 million while they were in opposition. By the time the JLP came to power Olint and the other UFOs had virtually crashed. Remember the time line when C+ crashed and this exacerbated a run on the others.
Now if you were going to bribe someone to stop yourself from being charged etc which do you think would have served you better… a strategically placed $200k to the gov or $12 million to the opposition? Yet the PNP was not included in the suit. Does that seem logical?
Another observation… Remember how NCB was been vilified for closing the accounts and was sued by DS? This serves to protect them from culpability in lawsuits. If you went way back on the old blog you would see me pointing out same.
Personally I do not care about what the Doctor and his legal team decide to do. I wish every OLINT investor well in their pursuit for Justice and recovery of their assets.
What I know is that:
1) The JLP who are the current Government is preventing David Smith and OLINT from being objectively investigated. NO ONE CAN DISPUTE THIS !!!!
2) I personally spoke with AS who told me he endorsed OLINT and it would be a priority to give them a license to operate once the JLP formed the Government. TO DATE THIS WAS NOT DONE. WE ALL KNOW WHAT TRANSPIRED
3) The PNP did receive monetary contributions. I would expect them to also refund the monies given to them from OLINT.
I will have a letter of demand sent to their legal counsel this week.
However, PNP members such as Omar Davis have done much more in my mind re: UFO’s than the JLP who are trying to be “rats in a corner” hoping the cat will pass them by.
Not this time!!!! They better dig deep because they are going to have some large legal bills racking up!!!
Personally, I do not care about Jamaican politics I just want back my money and I want to see the Smiths and their co-conspirators go to JAIL. That is why I have decided to heed the advise of my US Counsel who have a wealth of experience in dealing with international crooks and bandits.
For those who do not understand the reasoning behind my legal counsel, please be patient and await the Discovery Phase of my lawsuit.
I have not seen where the Doctor sued the JLP or BOJ.
My case will be most likely the first and will be filed in Federal Court. Nocotec et al… Please exercise patience. ALL WILL SOON BE REVEALED !!!!
Nocotec
The first I heard of any political party being sued was through Cricket pal about some Atlanta people.
Are such cases on the web?
If you think the Belongership one is not on their minds day and night you make a mistake. If you think they have the Belongership ‘locked’ you make a mistake.
He said he had 5 years for civil suits. I told him to put down 15 or 20.
BoJ sued? where can we find such cases? just curious.
American Investor
If you are seeking first place in Federal Court I think that bouquet is already well dried up long time.
I just got this email in my box regarding this scheme, I guess people just keep going at it : http://www.moneybaxforex.com/home/index.php
American Investor: That is why I have decided to heed the advise of my US Counsel who have a wealth of experience in dealing with international crooks and bandits.
Good luck with your cases. By the way, your recitation of what AS may have told you is a long way from proof that the JLP interfered with or is interfering with the arrest of DS. DS appears to be receiving the same treatment as Max Higgins, Ingrid Loiten, the Major among others. I guess those investors can sue and make the same claim. People like Ennis in the PNP were making public statements condemning the raid by the FSC so none of this was limited to the JLP.
Hopefully you know that your lawyers are not actually acting in your interest. Their interest is to make as money as they can and their advise is tailored to match that reality. In so far as your interests align with their goal then your interests will be served.
Just because they recommend something, the reality of lawyers, is that it does not mean it is necessarily best for you… it may mean just another way to rack up a bill. Lawyers will rack up their bill and bill you outrageous rates for everything like $2 or more to copy a sheet of paper for example.
When I have had the need to use lawyers I never assume they are smarter than me. I know they understand the process better than I do and that a judge will defer to them more than me which is why I pay them. But they work for me and I do my own independent research so I can judge if what they recommend makes any sense.
@Your Feedback
They will not lack for clients. You still see them on here… If they claim to be giving an average of 10 % per month… it can be done and so some people on here would still jump at such opportunities. FX trading is best left to professionals and thosethat than can afford large losses for the potential of significant gain. Most individual investors do not match those criteria.
@ Feed back and Nocotec-
What you see from Moneybax is that its a managed forex account through FXCM, a brokerage firm. I used FXCM as my broker when I was trading my own account. Fxcm has various automated trading platforms that one can sign up with, also they can set traders in such a way that they can trade other peoples money via subaccounts. These traders may just be trading for friends or the trader may have various individuals called IB’s , or “Introducing Broker” (I believe the NFA has changes the term since the time I had signed up as an IB) selling the masses on the skill of the trader. They do not have direct physical control over your money. Just appy your money to trades only. But this can be just as devistating as giving your money to Olint (which I did place money into a sub account for a automated trading program—–dont ask me how it turned out). Its all a learning process……..a painful one for sure.
My question about the statement , that I totally dissagree with is :” leave it up to the professionals”
How does one become a professional?
Some education yes, but like any profession (including lawyers and legal aids like yourself, medical ) Most of the “learning” by a professional is the first 5yrs after you leave the educational site.
” those that than can afford large losses for the potential of significant gain. Most individual investors do not match those criteria.”
Fortunatly, or unfortunatly depending on who you are, one can open a demo account in which you can trade virtual money. For kicks and grins. Then, when you are confident, one can open a Micro account. Where….you only are gathing or loosing pennies. Once you are making a ton pennies, one can graduate to a Mini account, (this is where I was at) in which you win or loose only dollars. And of course the the glorious Standard account in which you can win or loose $10 a pip.
Soooo you dont necessarily have to win or loose fortunes. (just feels like it, as tears cascade down your computer monitor).
To trade the Forex is an art form to be sure. A very delicate and meticulas art form that requires discipline.
Plus you have the minor inconvience of having to worry about in- house trading, and programs that various unscrupulos brokers (who they are I do not know) utilize in producing false charts that blow through your stop losses and close your trades in there favor, because they positioned their trade against yours, and also ….yada yada. Its unending.
But seriously, if you can continue to train eventually one becomes dicipled and skilled at recognising the inherent personality of the currence pair(s), then you have a chance to suceed. (sorry for all the misspelling)
-Terry
Nocotec
You seem to be seeking ‘proof’ here a lot. I don’t think ‘proof’ is going to come here on the blog for free. ‘Proofs’ are important to people’s freedom so it then carries a very high nominal dollar value to it.
As some one with so much legal experience it is strange that you seemingly miss that point.
Nocotec
You of all should know that if defendant want’s to call a ‘bluff’ then said defendant should deny (lie) first and then the plaintiff shows the proof. It just works better that way.
@Floridian
Most of the folks that invested in the UFO’s are not sophisticated about money issues. Some know how to make it, few know how to manage or keep it. Some will simply be throwing good money after bad without knowing it.
To see how much your lawyer believes in what he is taking your money to do, try these tests.
1. Tell him someone rear ended your spouse and his/her back is broken, will he take the case on contingency… he gets to keep 1/3 rd of what he wins. Bet he jumps at your offer.
2. Tell him you rear ended someone and broke his back. The other dude was driving crazy and caused the accident. You want to sue him. Will he take the case on contingency… he gets to keep 1/3 rd of what he wins. Bet he does not accept the offer..
3. You invested in a ponzi scheme and the guy took in hundreds of millions. Will he take the case on contingency? Since you are facing recovering Zero… Will he take the case on contingency…He can keep a whopping 2/3 rd of what he wins. Bet he does not accept the offer.
Why do you think he will not accept your offer. He should jump at such a deal if he really believed in all the great advice he is giving.
I see your point Dude. Well when everything is in context of money. you live in U.S.A. Dude?
Look I ask you again Nocotec what of the people who will pay …yes throw money down for justice to be served?
Never seen that before? first time?
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1474&id=8
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/7941054.stm
Morals in leadership
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090713/letters/letters3.html
YVONNE O. COKE
@Floridian
As when folks invested with Olint… I am not attempting to tell big man what him should do wid him money. I am not attempting to say who should be sued and who should not or what the motive should be.
The caution here is… know what you are doing and do not just assume that because an ‘expert’ is in charge he is doing the right thing or is doing what is best for you. This is one step up from giving your money to DS when he claimed to be a leading expert on FX trading… you should always research to make sure what the ‘expert’ is doing makes sense.In the big law firms these guys need to bring in a certain amount of revenue to make and keep partner.
Take the case of American Investor’s lawsuit. It is curious that he and his lawyers are suing Bank of Jamaica. I would not automatically assume that his American lawyers did not see the word Bank and assume they are suing a bank. I would ask if Bank of Jamaica is the Jamaican central bank, why are we suing it? Is it not the same as suing the Federal Reserve? Why is it different? Further if we sued the European Central Bank in a US court, would we be able to prevail? Maybe there is a valid reason but to say the least not too many people have sued a country’s central bank and won.
A lot people simply assume that a lawyer or doctor automatically knows what they are doing. I can tell you from various personal experiences, this is not true. I used to work with a couple lawyers and the employees used to come to me for advice because they figured I generally knew more than the attorneys in the office. One in particular I would never have given my personal case… not in a lifetime.
“Repression can take many forms, and too many nations, even those that have elections, are plagued by problems that condemn their people to poverty. No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves or if police can be bought off by drug traffickers. No business wants to invest in a place where the government skims 20 percent off the top or the head of the Port Authority is corrupt. No person wants to live in a society where the rule of law gives way to the rule of brutality and bribery. That is not democracy, that is tyranny, even if occasionally you sprinkle an election in there. And now is the time for that style of governance to end.
In the 21st century, capable, reliable, and transparent institutions are the key to success — strong parliaments; honest police forces; independent judges; an independent press; a vibrant private sector; a civil society. Those are the things that give life to democracy, because that is what matters in people’s everyday lives”.
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1476&id=8
The manner and speed with which the Amendment to the Order in Council was effected and placed before the UK Parliament leads us to believe that the Order in Council may be invoked in quick order. There really is no reason for any further delay.
This will hopefully focus executive authority within the Country and allow us to deal with the necessary issues.
Four weeks have now passed since June 18th, when the written decisions in the cases brought by Cem Kinay and Mario Hoffman were published. Enough time has passed for a redacted copy of the Final Report to be prepared and vetted. One would expect that as the Order in Council is invoked, the redacted report will be published at the same time.
Reading of the Final Report will probably consume all the waking hours for quite a few people for a couple of days thereafter. It is believed to be well over 1,000 pages.
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1475&id=8
The law suit filed against the Bank of Jamaica is likely to put the cat among the pigeons.If Olint was illegal ,Audley Shaw certainly did not think so. Nocotec is both pro-JlP and quite possibly a paid friend of Don Creary or James Robertson.
@Harbourshark
Here we go again. Another moronic investor. The blogs provide a log of your stupidity. When investors thought they were kicking ass with their great returns I was the enemy of C+/CH… Olint, DS… HW/MH… MayDaisy/IL… Oh yes I was accused of being bad minded and grudgeful and trying to tear down all of them. Not just, Olint dude.
If you apply a little logic you will surmise that DC appeared on this blog as the messenger of the gods and likely started or helped start the #4 blog. All of those persons or blogs hated my guts as I was a thorn in their sides. Investors hated my guts.
Now that investors lost their shirt and it turns out I was correct all along… Here comes the idiocy again… I am now friend of DC, JR and the JLP and by association DS.
One of my first statements on the blogs… the real long timers will remember… I have a tree in my backyard that has got more sense that some of you investors. It has enough sense to figure out the seasons. Some of you guys have trouble figuring what a clock a strike.
@ HarbourShark.
I think you sould re-read your post, as I don’t think you read it before hitting the submit button
Former lawyers for David Smith/Olint. Backpedaling is funny to watch. But Smith holds your fate in his hands.
Hotel California. It is up to Smith to see if you can leave. Talk to him while you back pedal.
It’s just like Noncotec always says;
You should have thought and checked..but no you fed Smith big talk.
Mawga dawg turn roun bite you? Don’t waste the phone call to me. Use it and call your King David.
how much is a legal career that took years to build really worth? To you.
What about freedom?
I have word that the BUSHMASTER is ready to rise.
Ready Judy?
liveandletlive where you been? Sailing off to an imaginary sunset?
Bob:
Not red flags, not bull…., real hard evidence, similar to that gathered by the TCI police. They got it during the raid. AND THEY DID NOTHING. Why are you ignoring that? Ask Nocotec. he knew all about it. He knows everything.
MikeD, on July 12th, 2009 at 6:40 pm Said:
Ignoring issues of “registration of securities” and “licensing” requirements, is it inherently ILLEGAL to run a Ponzi Scheme? I might be wrong; I have yet to see anyone charge for running a Ponzi (specific charge) in the US or anywhere for that matter. Tafari?
/////////////////////////////////
Madoff, dumbass. The actual charge is never “running a ponzi”.
Johndoe:
Thanks for the heads-up. Someone is on the trail already. Seems you have a good source.
Thanks again!
Very Interesting bit of news.
Widow of man who ran Ponzi scheme wants investors to return their profits
After Derrich Pollock died in a plane crash in Lago Vista in 2007, investigators found out that he was involved in a Ponzi scheme that owed millions to investors. More than two years later, life insurance policies that Pollock took out on himself have paid more than $6.5 million to the 90 people who invested with him.
But now Pollock’s estate has sued eight early investors who were paid by Pollock while he was still alive from funds he received from later investors. The estate’s trustee says the investors need to return about $1.2 million to Pollock’s widow and four children.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/2009/07/13/0713pollock.html
Tafari said:
“Not red flags, not bull…., real hard evidence, similar to that gathered by the TCI police. They got it during the raid. AND THEY DID NOTHING. Why are you ignoring that? Ask Nocotec. he knew all about it. He knows everything.”
You appear to know with great certainty two important things about the FSC raid:
1. They got evidence sufficient to ground a conviction of specific persons for a crime; and
2. They did nothing with it.
Can you describe for us the evidence that they obtained?
Assuming that you are correct and they did have this evidence, what information do you have that shows that they did nothing with it?
Is the similar evidence the TCI police obtained sufficient to ground their charges against smith, or are they also relying on affidavits of complainants?
These questions are asked in the context of my previous posts on the subject but I won’t repeat the points here.
It would be very helpful to know the answers to these questions.
The following report speaks to a classic ponzi scheme modus operandi .
CFTC Charges Georgia Man with Operating a Multi-Million Dollar Forex Ponzi Scheme
Eldon A. Gresham Targeted Persons of the Christian Faith, Soliciting More Than $15 Million; Court Freezes Assets .
http://www.cftc.gov/newsroom/enforcementpressreleases/2009/pr5674-09.html
Everyday a new one appears
Bob:
What is the point you are trying to make?
And why?
The evidence was had. What evidence do you have, Bob, that they used the evidence they got guring the raid to charge David Smith with any crime? Did I miss the news?
And Bob:
Trust me. There are those who know why the FSC chose not to make the referral for criminal charges. I am not even in Jamaica and I know that a high-level meeting was held. Voices were raised. Pictures of persons in the meeting are on Olintja.com for your review.
Trust me, Nocotec knows. Floridian knows. Floridian knows much much more than he reveals on this blog. Just trust me Bob.
Really…trust you? Who in their right mine would trust someone like you who have ZERO credibility left on this blog. Let me guess, the die-hard Olint/Lewfam investors?
Jay:
Not the most informed decision I ever made but I believe that this was the specific language (taken from the order).
////////
The information indicates that these entities, while they purport to be carrying out foreign currency trading activities, are engaged in securities activities in breach of sections 7 and 8 of the Securities Act. These sections prohibit the carrying on of a securities or investment advice business without being licensed to do so by the FSC.
////////
You see, it may be still true that David Smith was not in violation of Sections 7 and 8 of the Securities Act (I say may since I am not fully aware of what investment advice he may have given, or the actual language in Section 7 and 8).
That said, I elected to invest anyway because as I said before, I concluded (wrongly so) that the guy was not a thief. My real concern was that the guy was a fraud and that Olint was a ponzi scheme. After reading information of the raid, I was actually convinced that the guy was legit. I am sure that many came to the same conclusion. I am told that some who removed their funds at that time, elected to puut it back when the JA authorities decided to keep the racket they discovered from the public.
Jay, I have heard it asked here many times why the Jamaica government, even today, refuses to take action against David Smith. Well, it seems that our money is in the pockets of many of your government officials, past and present.
This is an ugly truth that may offend many Jamaicans. But it appears that Jamaica has probably the second most corrupt political system in the caribbean.
The attorney put in charge of the liquidation of Cash Plus, for example, made it out of a Grenadian jail just last September for fraudulent doings involving finances under the ousted Keith Mitchell government there. He was not charged then, but I am told by a member of the CID there that the investigation is still ongoing and he may yet be charged.
Guess you guys are going to put Madoff in charge of the Olint liquidation if it came to that….LOL.
On a serious note Jay, it is really telling that people on this blog try so hard to discredit this information. Information that was so easily obtained and so readily confirmed by two independent sources.
This information was not sought after. It came up in a conversation with someone who suggested, quite matter of factly, that he thought that everyone understood that. At first I was shocked but then I was able to put two and two together.
For instance, I had a conversation with someone who met with David Smith in the TCI in 2008. David Smith suggested to him then that he had no concern that he would ever be prosecuted in Jmaica. How could he be so sure? (Granted the guy is a darn liar).
Jay, on July 12th, 2009 at 12:45 pm Said:
@ Tafari, here is the word from one investor and BTW it was printed in the Jamaica Gleaner…………………
///////////////
Jay:
My report here that the Jamaica government chose not to charge David with the crimes they were aware of is not an excuse for making a not-well-informed decision to invest in Olint.
It seems that you are making the asertion that I am using the Jamaica government as a scapegoat. There is nothing further from the truth.
I take full responsibility for my choice. But that does not make it less true that your government officials had their hands so dirty with the Olint money, some of them even investing in Olint, that they elected to do nothing about it. That is just a fact.
So let’s deal with the fact. Forget about how stupid this investor was, or how greedy that investor was. The fact remains that your officials chose to allow David Smith to go free. Even today they are choosing to do nothing about David Smith.
Nocotec, do you have another lecture?
Test:
How does one gain credibility on this blog? Is it by saying what you want to hear? Is it by having the same position as the administrators of the blog?
Nothing I ever said here has ever been disproved, nor ever could be.
Test, your ignorance is recognized. Goodbye!
Test, on July 13th, 2009 at 7:25 pm Said:
Really…trust you? Who in their right mine would trust someone like you who have ZERO credibility left on this blog. Let me guess, the die-hard Olint/Lewfam investors?
Test:
I think you meant who in their right MIND…..
You would be more credible yourself if you had the capacity to under the difference between the two words.
Test, on July 13th, 2009 at 7:25 pm Said:
Really…trust you? Who in their right mine would trust someone like you who have ZERO credibility left on this blog. Let me guess, the die-hard Olint/Lewfam investors?
Test:
I think you meant who in their right MIND…..
You would be more credible yourself if you had the capacity to understand the difference between the two words.
Test:
You established by that post also that you can’t read either. No die-hard Olint investor would care to read anything I have ever posted. You see, I have come to realize that these investors wouldn’t want to hear that David Smith is a damn thief who shouldn’t be out on bail. Or that everyone who got more than their investment should be compelled to pay back the fake profits. Or that anyone who still believes in david Smith is a dumbass.
Test:
He who has nothing to say should not write.
Tafari said:
“What is the point you are trying to make?
And why?
The evidence was had. What evidence do you have, Bob, that they used the evidence they got guring the raid to charge David Smith with any crime? Did I miss the news?”
My post was a set of questions, not a point. As to why I am asking these questions: you made statements that implied that you knew the nature of the evidence and that it was sufficient to ground a conviction. That is very significant. Your answer to the question was “The evidence was had” which, with respect, does not answer the question. I want to understand what happened. If it is corruption, so be it. And if it was, who was corrupt? If it was not, what was it? You speak as if you have the answers. That is why I have questions for you. On the other hand, if you don’t have the answers and are simply stating what you believe, that is fine and I won’t ask you any questions.
To answer your question: no, I do not have any evidence that the FSC used evidence from the raid to charge smith with a crime. I think you are maybe being cheeky or humorous. But I don’t really understand why you would ask me that question.
The reason I asked you the question did you have information that they had evidence and did nothing was because you made the assertion. Are you saying that if the FSC had enough evidence for him to be charged and he wasn’t charged it means that the FSC decided to do nothing? Again, please check my earlier post where I laid out the possibilities. By asserting one of them and not the others, I understood that you had information to support the assertion.
Also, others have pointed out the difference between the FSC and the DPP and the police which is relevant here. (Incidentally, in a prevous post it was said that DPP Llewellyn is a good person. I don’t remember if it was Tafari or someone else. Anyway, the DPP at the time was not Llewellyn but a different person altogether).
In your next post, after asking me to trust you, which I do, of course, you pointed me towards a meeting that everyone in Jamaica seems to know about where voices were raised. Was this a meeting of the FSC staff, the FSC board, the minister of finance, the cabinet, a subset thereof, the police fraud squad, the police high command, the Financial Investigation Division, the DPP, his staff or some combination of all of them or someone else? There are a lot of pictures on the Olintja site so I would need a bit more in order to be able to review them as you suggested.
@Tafari
I just read your posts to Jay where you say more about how you discovered that the FSC decided not to charge smith.
You do not appear to have any evidence for your position and are relying on a statement to you by someone. If you understand Jamaica, you understand that that someone may or may not know anything at all about what happened. This could be like the meeting with AS that you mentioned where he promised to license Olint if and when he got into office. Did the people in that meeting really think that a politician in jamaica can actually achieve that feat? A bit like getting an exemption from duty on your Hummer? Jamaica’s financial sector just does not work like that and hasn’t for many many years.
How exactly does the system work in Jamaica? When the big boys (minister, prime minister, etc) want someone to not be charged, how do they do it? Do they give clandestine orders to, say, the head of the FSC to shred the file or somehow bury the information? How is this done? Or do they give orders to the FSC chairman and he orders the FSC head who gives orders to the department head who gives the order to the unit head who takes the file from the guy on the desk who is developing the case?
Ok, let’s assume that it is the DPP that is told what to do. How does that happen – the famous smoke-filled room? What about the various policemen and lawyers involved in the case? Are they all bought off or just terrorised into silence? Or are they all Party people who can be relied upon to do the bidding of the leader?
Or, is it that there was a conspiracy amongst those amongst them that had Olint accounts directly or indirectly?
Based on what I have heard so far, I’m not buying it. Conspiracy theories are lazy theories. And anyway, as any criminal will tell you, the thing to avoid is a conspiracy. That’s how you get caught. I think that we should focus on specific public servants and consider whether they did their duty or not. Where they did not, then we can search for corrupt motives for their failures. So, back to the decision not to charge:
1. What evidence, or information, is there that there was a decision not to charge?
2. Who made that decision: the FSC staff, ceo, board, the police, the DPP or his staff, the minister?
By the way i hear that u must be ready for a thorough examination by the tax authorities when u go forward to the turks authorities.
Where is Chris Walker nowadays? is he still writing letters to the US govt imploring them to not send aid to Jamaica because he has his issues with Olint?
Advocating that the entire Jamaica be made to suffer because of Olint’s woes.
Dr Chris Walker is a great Jamaican. A man who has stood up to corruption and stupidity.A man who has fearlessly fought for what he believes in. Not a worm like you hiding behind anonymity on a blog.Wantmymoney, I hope you die a poor broken man.You deserve nothing but abject destitution.
I knew u wld respond….
Chris is one of the absolutely selfish individuals one can imagine….putting his sick father’s image on the front of a newspaper for his own personal gain….
willing to cause millions of innocent jamaicans (most who know nothing abt Olint) to suffer because of his own debacle…by advocating the withholding of aid….sick & selfish!
@Bob
Who made that decision: the FSC staff, ceo, board, the police, the DPP or his staff, the minister?
Nice one Bob. No one in your list really makes decisions in Jamaica. They follow edicts, instructions etc. Just like David and Wayne Smith.
Oh Smithy, you believed the hype. Why you alone know. Now you fret. First Time? I remember I remember. Yeah. Hopefully you get over it and if you face it again it’s not so bad because you have the experience.
They heavy but the are not the top Smithy. Even they fall for hype too just like you.
What you gonna do Punchanella….in the middle of the river don’t know which bank to land on. Careful. Can’t stay on the water for ever. ‘They’ might swim out to you.
Moral Smithy? Don’t believe the hype.
I do not think that either Bill Clarke or Oliver Clarke should have received
national honours.
Reflections
You reached out but not fully. Then you were seen with that person and it all became clear. You had chosen to ride the roller coaster.
In anything in life it is best to learn for yourself through practical experience each stage of any productiion. to go into management without knowing every aspect and every contingency is unwise. For if not when things not running right you have to rely on someone else to cover some stage of the production that you know nothing about, have never seen, have never experienced first hand.
So then you are at the whim of such a person or persons. If your competitor or competitors are grounded in foundation because they skipped no stage while coming up then they are more agile and fiercely efficient.
By skipping stages you have a need for a crowd of ‘talent’ around you. But that is bungling. If your competitor has extras around that’s what they are. Extras.
Smithy, any man who rises to the top owing favours never sheds vulnerability.
Wantmymoney
David Smith et al are not sick and selfish?
Wantmymoney didn’t you get ‘your’ money?
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1477&id=8
Governor Makes Proclamation Invoking Interim Amendment of the Order in Council
THE UK GOVERNMENT will not provide a financial boost to the Turks and Caicos Islands economy – because they believe we should pay income taxes instead…
http://www.suntci.com/
What is the ‘great trader’s” the one who “…trade hundreds of millions of dollars” tax bill going to look like.
Ask Wayne.
“The Governor is definitely calling all the shots in the Turks and Caicos Islands,” an extremely reliable source revealed. It is understood that no major decisions have been made during Cabinet meetings over the past several months, resulting in the Premier Hon. Galmo Williams administration being called a “lame duck” government. “In Cabinet the Governor has the final say and even if all of the Cabinet ministers agree on something, if the Governor says no, it is dead in the water,” the source told The SUN.
http://www.suntci.com/index.php?p=story&id=186
Wantmymoney
In a strongly worded statement on June 29, the Governor stressed that “transparency, accountability and responsibility in public life as the key to foreign investor confidence and economic recovery”.
http://www.suntci.com/index.php?p=story&id=186
@Red P
In observing the mode of “we” the church, it seems we are stuck in “a time to keep silence” for a prolonged period!
celtakirk@yahoo.com
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20090712T190000-0500_155251_OBS_IS_THIS_THE_TIME_.asp
The consolation for a recession is that it is a natural part of an economic cycle – things boom, then they bust, and then they boom again. But when will Jamaica’s cycle go full circle? The economy seems to be stuck in the “bust” phase.
Like the rest of the world, Jamaica is currently knee-deep in a recession that is only going to get worse; we still have yet to see the bottom.
Unfortunately, the picture doesn’t look very different now. Though things aren’t as bad in terms of the devaluation of the dollar and the hike in interest rates, Jamaica is making a beeline back in that direction.
The reality is that all sectors of the economy are feeling the brunt of the crisis. For starters, any company whose earnings depend on disposable income can kiss increased profits goodbye
All in all, things will only get worse before they get better. SSL thinks that the world is in phase three of the financial crisis with a fourth phase on the way in two to seven months
Sex in recession – Prostitutes slash prices – Parlours see 50% decline – Layoffs hurt businesses
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090119/lead/lead1.html
•Levels of bad debt continued to rise to their highest nominal levels since the financial crisis of the 1990s. Financial sector non-performing loans totalled J$8.9bn (US$101m), 48% higher than the year-earlier period in nominal terms.
•The recession will deepen in 2009 as household consumption declines and recession in the developed world curbs export demand.
http://www.reportbuyer.com/countries/caribbean/jamaica/country_report_jamaica_february_2009.html
“It is so fundamental for us to support agriculture, not just because of the crisis we face, but for the future sustainability of our society because we are an agrarian society, whether we want to accept it or not,” he said.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090714/news/news4.html
coming at such a time of crisis in our country.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090713/business/business2.html
The fiscal crisis is one where a gap exists between revenues and expenditure because of ingrained patterns of behaviour that result either in revenue deficits or unrealistic expenditure. Over time this leads to other crises, such as legitimacy, credibility, security, and welfare undermining faith in government and the political system
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080511/focus/focus3.html
especially as we face a deepening social and economic crisis in the country.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20081207/news/news3.html
One of the most worrying features of our long-standing economic and social crisis has been the effects which this has had on Jamaican rural life.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090607/focus/focus6.html
The global economic crisis is upon us with potentially devastating consequences.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090329/cleisure/cleisure2.html
UWI at a time of crisis
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090705/focus/focus4.html
Prayers for Olint
The large percentage of investors who are from the church community have intensified their prayers with the hope that good will come out of this crisis. It is the moral integrity which must triumph over financial self-interests
BISHOP C.B.
PETER MORGAN
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080720/letters/letters4.html
We need to hear from the financial gurus and leaders what proactive things that are being done to protect the mortgage institutions in Jamaica from this crisis on the horizon, if they have anytime left after bashing Olint, Cash Plus, World Wise, etc.
I am, etc.,
AINSWORTH DICK
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071120/letters/letters1.html
I read with interest in The Sunday Gleaner of February 8, the account of one investor who said “he believed in” David Smith, adding that many had followed him like the Pied Piper. I was equally moved by the reported assertions of one Bishop Peter Morgan, who was quoted as saying “It ain’t over yet, as the lady of justice has not yet sung”. It is curious that a good many of the investors in Olint (like many other such former clubs) were church people, many of whom could be classified as fundamentalists.
Fundamentalism has many facets, but it is essentially a mode of thinking that holds that truth is located in a single place or only a few places, and as such, is something known by only a few. Fundamentalism is characterised by an uncritical acceptance of the presumed wisdom of some elevated other and those who hold on to their teachings and orders are passionate in their resistance to alternative ideas and perspectives.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090222/cleisure/cleisure5.html
“The Ministry of Finance wishes to make it clear,” the statement said, “that contrary to media reports, SGL Holdings does not fall under the Banking Act.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080725/carib/carib5.html
In the meantime, however, uncertainty will remain about the status of the so-calle investment schemes, and they will continue to exist in a shadowy place in the market. That cannot be good for Jamaica, which has been attempting to market itself as an open and transparent economy that is a good place to do business.
In these circumstances, the Government has an obligation to act in the interest of the widest constituency of Jamaicans and to ensure that this is a place where, even as people take risks, business is conducted in an orderly and transparent environment. In that regard, even as the Olint matter works its way through the courts, the administration should move to clarify, via legislation, who or what falls under which rules.
At the same time, it should initiate a broader discussion on the structure of the financial markets to ensure a framework that accommodates new ideas, creating space for the innovators while protecting consumers from the charlatans.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071230/cleisure/cleisure1.html
Email and blogs being anonymously circulated in cyberspace, linking many to the floundering invest scheme, Olint Corporation, continue to stalk some of the nation’s well-known personalities and corporate entities.
The email contained messages purportedly sent by the members of the JLP hierarchy, including Prime Minister Bruce Golding, Finance Minister Audley Shaw and state minister Daryl Vaz, to Olint’s embattled boss, David Smith, asking for funds or thanking him for his support.
Claudette Crooks, president of Money Masters Limited, was not amused when The Gleaner contacted her recently.
The financial analyst was dismissive of the content of the email.
“Anybody can send an email and circulate whatever garbage they want to circulate,” she said.
Crooks argued that where she chooses to invest her money “is nobody’s business” but her own.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090227/news/news6.html
In one correspondence, purportedly from Robertson and sent from a close relative’s email account, a request was made for Smith to provide “support” that would “make a meaningful difference to the Jamaica Labour Party’s success”. The email included a local bank account number.
“I can’t remember. I send hundreds of emails and I am not denying that I am aware or have knowledge or know David,” Robertson said.
“I am not denying that there was contact.I am denying nothing but in terms of that specific, I can’t answer that.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090213/lead/lead2.html
Privy Council finds holes in Olint case – Says courts a law unto themselves
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090511/news/news6.html
Floridian,
So what if Claudette Crooks invested in Olint…what’s the big deal didn’t we all invest except of course the administrators of this blog?
thats why i have a problem with the publishing of names because it gives the impression that we r all guilty of something.
To answer ur question – no i did not get back my money – hence my name.WANTMYMONEY.
The more one examines the saga of Olint the more the explanations become clear.
Tafari are you a Jamaican? Based on some of your postings it appears you may not be. If you are not, how did you get mixed up in an affinity scam, primarily involving Jcans? If you are not, are you married to a Jcan or were you born to Jcan parents?
One of the issues that have become clear is that many of the conspiracy accusations… like those advanced by investors like Tafari about Olint paying off politicians which is why he was not charged… and the lawsuits implying such… these are being advanced primarily by overseas based Jcans. Part of the problem living overseas for extended periods is that one can lose touch with the home culture.
It explains why it appears strange to some of these folks why it is unlikely DS needed to payoff anyone to avoid being charged. DS likely made donations because he was led to believe that a JLP gov would move to legalize the UFOs and Olint specifically. It appears when this was not forthcoming, the Olint inner circle felt betrayed and turned against the JLP who had been their pals while receiving the money.
In JA there were many many prominent Jcans at all levels of the society that just like folks like the Doc, Tafari, American Investor believed that returns like 10 % per month trading FX was not only possible but credible over long periods… Prominent lawyers, doctors, bankers, financial advisers, businessmen, politicians, police… Many of these folks believed in the credibility of DS and Olints claims.
When the FSC raided Olint/Lewfam the clamor was for them to be left alone. There were no ‘victims’. Given the environment in JA at the time, anyone that believes DS would have been charged in that environment must be culturally out of touch with JA. DS did not need to buy anyone off to stay out of jail. In JA believing that the police would charge DS …with no ‘victims’, prominent investors, and a clamor for him to be left alone… well, one just must not understand JA.
@Nocotec
I suspect is that T is Grenadian. I suspect he invested in OLINT vis SGL Holdings.
@wantmymoney
When you present yourself as an expert on financial matters to the public, where you invest your money becomes a matter of public interest.
The questions I would have asked her if I were the reporter would be
a) What is her position on UFOs?
b) What investments would she advise her clients to be careful of?
c) As a financial expert would she advise persons to invest in clubs like OLINT?
Web sights like this (this is a brokerage firm with a trading competition for cash prises, like FXCM) Is a factor that made me think that DS. Please note the ONE month Profit /loss for the trader Andre J. that won the competition.
http://www.fxdd.com/en/forex-contest.html?contactID=135156152
-ter
Stanford investors suing Antigua
CMC
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:38:28 AM
HOUSTON, Texas – The government of Antigua and Barbuda has been sued in a United States federal court by investors from four countries claiming that it benefited from and knew about Sir Allen Stanford’s alleged Ponzi scheme.
The lawsuit, which seeks US$8 billion in damages, was filed yesterday in a federal court in Houston, Texas, by investors from the United States, Mexico, Columbia and Peru.
“Antigua is sovereign but not above the law. It became a full partner in Stanford’s fraud, and reaped enormous financial benefits from the scheme,” the lawsuit claimed.
It also said that Sir Allen “stuffed Antigua’s coffers and its officials’ pockets with money stolen from unsuspecting customers”.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/tools/breakingnews/bnm.asp?bn=1964
@MikeD
Sovereign immunity is a very high burden to overcome. For example the US Supreme court just let a lawsuit against Saudi Arabia die because of sovereign immunity. It was alleging that Saudi Arabia let the 9 1 1 and al q u e da dudes flourish via charities etc and that the Saudi benefited from and or ignored them.
There are only limited and few exceptions where this is waived and the US gov will often join with the defendant to stop the suit… they do not want the US gov to face the same thing overseas. Imagine if all the victims of the horrendous crimes the US has perpetrated overseas could sue the US gov… example, all the dictators and coups they sponsored… the resulting mayhem, death and stolen money. Govs band together to prevent themselves from being sued.
@Ter: Please note the ONE month Profit /loss for the trader Andre J. that won the competition.
One of the things I have always been good at is detecting and solving mathematical fallacies.
With little effort we can structure a similar contest, this time using the lottery instead of fx trading. Each week we will award the winners and runner ups prizes. The minimum investment required will be $1.
We will end up with a similar table and you will be astounded at the profit the winner and runner up will generate each week or month. What you will notice though is that the winners of the lottery are different each week and it is rare indeed for the winner to repeat.
In investing the shorter the time periods selected the more the absolute profit margins approach complete randomness, akin to a lottery game. If you pick the winning number in any period your profits are phenomenal but you must pick the right number/winner each time. In that FX game/contest, if you picked last months winner you are virtually guaranteed to not pick the winner. The point is you have very little chance of sustaining phenomenal results over the long term.
@Nocotec:
I presented the link as a FYI, without taking a position, since it was a timely piece. There were mentions on this blog about pending Olint-related lawsuits targeting the JLP as defendants.
I must point out the flip side of your comments as it relates to the Government of Cuba, Libya and I think, Iran, where judgments were granted against these two/three countries in US courts. One should also be cognizant of the fact that the US can be very selective in the cases they allow to move forward, especially when they factor-in their own self interest and the “other” parties involved and the “closeness” of their relationship with the US.
The problem here for Antigua is the fact that the head of their regulatory body was arrested by their own government for taking bribes from Sir Allen Stanford and will in all likelihood, be extradited to the US. There is also the implication that higher-ups in the Antiguan government (past administration) were on the take and/or benefited from Stanford.
Bob wrote:
My post was a set of questions, not a point. As to why I am asking these questions: you made statements that implied that you knew the nature of the evidence and that it was sufficient to ground a conviction.
////////////////////
Dude I said no such thing. You are a damn liar. Why do we fabricate such things? At no time did I say that evidence gathered was “sufficient to ground a conviction”.
Everything I wrote is still abailable on this blog. Just scroll up guy. Instead you choose to misrepresent what I said. Same pattern you and the other guy.
Bob, on July 13th, 2009 at 9:03 pm Said:
@Tafari
I just read your posts to Jay where you say more about how you discovered that the FSC decided not to charge smith.
You do not appear to have any evidence for your position and are relying on a statement to you by someone. If you understand Jamaica, you understand that that someone may or may not know anything at all about what happened.
////////////////////
Bob, now you are the other person that knows it all. I have no information. Nah! You guys are great!
Bob:
I have all the information you need. Send money order to:
P.O Box 116
//////////////////////////////// You said:
In your next post, after asking me to trust you, which I do, of course, you pointed me towards a meeting that everyone in Jamaica seems to know about where voices were raised. Was this a meeting of the FSC staff, the FSC board, the minister of finance, the cabinet, a subset thereof, the police fraud squad, the police high command, the Financial Investigation Division, the DPP, his staff or some combination of all of them or someone else? There are a lot of pictures on the Olintja site so I would need a bit more in order to be able to review them as you suggested.
Bob said:
1. What evidence, or information, is there that there was a decision not to charge?
Answer Bob:
He was NOT charged.
You never have to prove that something didn’t happen.
@anonymous
Don’t forget question (d)
Did you make a profit from your personal Olint investment and/or any other dealings with Olint?
Tafari: Everything I wrote is still abailable on this blog
LOL… Dude you are such an easy target that I cannot resist. Remember your attack on Test… mine vs mind… LOL
What the hell is abailable. Dude it is available…… LOL…
Now do you see how ridiculous and stupid you were. You can always tell when someone is bankrupt with ideas… They start attacking the other person’s grammar instead of the ideas.
@ anonymous,
Personally I believe that Jamaican financial analyst in particular the commentators are just too lazy, and for the most part are far from being experts on their subject matter.
Very rarely can you get useful insights into government policies, economic issues, investment choices from these folks. In fact I believe that too many of them are politically aligned so when they speak, the speech takes on political overtones, which thus distracts from their message.
At the time of the UFO’s I do not recall many of these guys taking a postion on the UFO’s and in fact some were of the opinion that Olint was legit and capable of delivering the returns that the UFO was said to be delivering.
I would rather fail on my own vs following the advise of some of these guys.
MikeD: I presented the link as a FYI, without taking a position, since it was a timely piece.
I know that was your aim since I recall you pointing out the issue with the suing of BOJ. My response was aimed at the general blog. I am also familiar with the issue of Libya, Cuba and Iran. I do not recall if the case against Iran was finalized. and yes the US will sometimes allow cases to proceed against countries they do not like, though not often.
The case against Cuba and Libya are also somewhat different. Though they were still strategically allowed to proceed. These cases allege the official government of those countries took certain official government actions… Seizing property as official Cuban gov policy… Panamian airways over Lockerbie as part of a Libyan gov spy agency action… obviously the USA could be sued hundreds of time under the same Libyan standard…
This is different from alleging individual members of gov took bribes. The fact that a gov official took a bribe is not generally grounds to sue the entire gov/country.
Incidentally to illustrate the often hypocrisy of the US, you will recall Antigua won a case against them regarding online gambling and they have refused to honor the judgment.
Hey Tafari
Dude there is no reason to jump all over Bob too… You know all those billions you said I transferred… Well, you got me.. I have to confess. I told DS that as soon as he saw any money come in from you he should transfer it to me too… you know, as part of my billions… no comingling make sure he send me your money directly. Guess what dude, he did… and guess what I did with it? I promptly used it to order up some white Russian whores… 🙂
So there is no need to go around attacking other bloggers too. I am the one that got and spent your money. 🙂
This week an Olint investor called me over to ask for a loan. I said I don’t do that anymore. I really felt their pain for them. Then a knock on the door brought a process server. Creditors start suing.
The investor told me she had hung on for over a year using savings to pay the notes while waiting for David and Waqyne Smith.
It’s sad and it’s just beginning. This investor had never been served a summons in her life.
I told her she might consider bankruptcy. The problem is after bancruptcy some professions, careers and years of academic credentials go down the drain.
This thing is not going away no matter who want’s it too. The reprecussions that have not even fully arrived yet make US$350,000,000.00 look like nothing.
Take care of ‘obligation’?? He and the three richest men of Jamaica funds combined can not restitute all the people back to before his crimes.
Here is another curious observation… Why did the TCI FSC grant DS a license when he was under a cease and desist order from the JA FSC? How come he was granted a license and allowed to operate until Olint crashed? Why did they allow him to operate and why was he not charged until people came forward to file complaints? Seems really strange, right? Tafari and others, got any answers?
Nocotec:
i have a suggestion. I may be wrong because I have no “evidence” of this. But it appears from all the stories I have heard that he was able to do the same thing in the TCI. He bribed his way…
Now, are you trying to suggest that because he was able to do it in the TCI, I should lay off your friends in Jamaica?
Nocotec:
Bob attacked. I responded. Actually he lied.What of that? Nothing? Because he supports your position? Oh!
Nocotec:
David Smith is a thief, and he used people’s money to bribe polititians. Do you deny that?
Do you deny that you have friends who lined their pockets with David Smith’s stolen money?
Why are you and Bob so adamant that this didn’t happen?
Why the fight to disprove that the FSC got documents and computers from David Smith with clear evidence that the guy was a scondrel?
Who is worse? david Smith or those who knowingly benefitted from his stealing? (like friends of ours).
Talk to me guy.
I will tell the future…Nocotec will go on a lecture about TCI and the American legal system, everything except telling us about what was asked…………………..
nocotec, on June 17th, 2009 at 9:29 am Said:
The fact that the JLP and PNP accepted money from Olint is not an indication that the parties at the time did anything wrong. What we need is for the law to be changed to require the political parties and candidates for elected office to fully disclosure the source of all their contributions. This is not currently a requirement. Public disclosure requirements will force the parties to be more discriminatory in who they accept funds from.
////////////////////
Really?
Tafari:
How is your FX Trading coming along? I notice we haven’t gotten any weekly updates from you lately. Did you wipe out your measly account?
Correct if I’m wrong, but was Olint TCI really a licensed entity in TCI? I know that TCI FX’s (John Wildish) entity was licensed, but I’m not sure of Olint TCI. All indication points to the fact that Olint TCI was a registered company, but not licensed by TCI FSC!
@Tafari
I get a kick out of discussions with you because you are never able to get the point. 🙂
The point was… DS was charged in TCI because
1. Some of his former diehard supporters found out they were in fact victims and came forward to file complaints. He was not charged before.
2. He was charged because he was present, domiciled and operating in TCI.
Let me get this clear…
1. The FSC raided DS/Lewfam’s offices
2. They obtained evidence
3. The FSC is a regulator which primarily has civil authority as opposed to criminal
4. Using their civil authority, the FSC issues an unequivocal Cease and Desist order to Olint/Lewfam. They very clearly tell anyone that could read or listen that… to paraphrase slightly…
Dude PURPORTS to be trading FX… investors are advised not to invest. Do you know the meaning of and the implication of the word purports?
5. You still invest and lose your shirt.
6. You are now upset at the FSC because you invested only because the FSC did not charge him criminally?
Is it ok if that this point we start using terms like moron? By the way you keep repeating ever evolving nonsense about my big friends benefiting from Olint. You claimed to have evidence to that effect. Why have you refused my invitation to reveal your evidence? We do not need to guess, right? Maybe a better question is, why do you keep making a fool yourself for the world to see?
Nocotec:
I take it that you have no intention of taking up Tafari on his offer to meet you for a drink in Jamaica? Maybe he will present the evidence in person, since it was obtained “illegally” 🙂
Go easy on Tafari, we would not want him to leave the blog prematurely….he is very entertaining.
BTW, is it just me, but doen’t Tafari write like a girl?
I know he sometimes sounds like a girl but he did mention his wife at one point… though these days one cannot safely assume that spouses are of opposite gender. 🙂
Bwoy.. in a JA dem days ya, when man think seh you and you bredren dem tek weh him money… you haffi careful who you meet star 🙂
@MikeD
There have been so many disclosures about this stuff, hard to keep all of it straight… TCI FX was licensed by TCI. Was not DS listed as one of the principals and as the fx trader for TCI FX? Usually the principals need to be licensed too.
1. The issue of donations to parties has been an issue in Jamaica for a long time.
2. At present anyone(UFOs, drug dealers etc) can donate, brown paper bag or wired, from $1 to US12 Million and there is absolutely no need to disclosure either on the part of the contributor or the receiver. [bad system]
3. Accepting money from OLINT does not equal party being bribed. It could be but it does not equal.
4. With donations, it is tricky, the contributer might have had motive but that motive need to coincide with the intent of the receiver
5. As demonstrated by ENNIS and other political persons that invested it might be viewed that they honestly believed OLINT was ‘legitimate’ but misunderstood.
@ floridian
I will change your question a little and add another
(d) Given what we do know if some ‘invested’ in OLNT and made a profit , should they be asked to repay?
e) Did you have any professional dealings with Olint?
That is a good question but I did not want to get to personal.
@Nocotec
2. They obtained evidence.”
or was it that the failed to find any evidence(of trading)
The question is the quality of that evidence. Was it hard facts or did it only suggest ? or was it the lack of evidence
My position is given the power invested in the FSC it did the right thing.
a) It issue and order or Cease and Desist
b) It issued a strong warning to the public
Person should also note that that not long after the raid, OLINT had the FSC on the backfoot with lawsuits, appeals in the COURTs and in no time was out of the ISLAND thanks to ‘facilitators’.
Is that what PB called himself?
@anonymous
I was using evidence in the generic sense. I have no idea what material they saw or took or what it showed or did not show but it can be classified as evidence. And my point was that it was enough for them to proceed with the C&D order.
Regarding donations to the parties…
One thing consistent with many of the UFO investors is that whenever you present anything logical that happens to disagree with them… they immediately start attacking you and accusing you of some kind of collusion with someone acting against their interests.
If one follows the sequence of the donations, it is clear that the Olint insiders were happy about their association with members of the JLP. They were making it known how things were going to be different.
After the election and as things continued to evolve against them, their attitudes towards the JLP changed to where they started hating the JLP. A logical analysis of this behavior suggests that they thought they were going to get something favorable done and it was not.
Dead Monkey and your various aliases…
You seem to think that if keep posting the same accusations over and over under different aliases it will give it more weight. By the way, what would be the crime in JA if a newspaper reporter, columnist, editor or director took money to suppress a story or write a favorable article? It may be against the newspaper’s policies and unethical but is it illegal? What if he takes money to get the story in the paper but the story is actually the truth?
What if the paper’s owner uses it print favorable stories about him and his business and ignore such stories about his competitors, is that a crime too?
NOCOTEC:
You suggest that the FSC is a regulatory body with civil powers, not criminal.
Ok, let’s see if I get the point and how best I can entertain you.
let’s just say that during the raid they found two dead bodies in Olint’s office.Gunshot woulds to the head and all. Oh, and two tons of cocaine (trying to see how I can get this into your thick, covering for your buddies skull)…
Should/would the FSC:
1. Issue a strong warning to the public to stay away from Olint’s office.
2. Notify the Police and make themselves (the individuals making the findings) available to the police to give, say, a statement of their findings.
3. Suggest to their friends to take their money out of olint.
Care to guess Nocotec?
I take it you would say one ( you already made the POINT).
But I humbly beg to differ. I would suggest to you oh mighty Nocotec that a call to the police and a report of a finding of a potential crime would be in order.
But I am sure that your highness has a different view.
MikeD:
The trading is coming along well…not as well as I would want though (no 299 million percent per year to report).
On your other remark I think you are right. I haven’t seen a “license” but I did see a certificate of incorporation”. I am not sure if that acts as a llicense to operate or if something else is required. It would be reasonable to assume though, that no license is required since I have heard nothing of such a requirement.
MikeD:
How does a girl write?
MikeD:
I stand corrected.
Click to access The%20Business%20Licensing%20Ordinance.pdf
A license is required. One would have to assume therefore that TCI FX and Olint TCI were licensec entities or it would have come up before.
I am sure his buddy the premier made sure he had everything in order.
A license is required. One would have to assume therefore that TCI FX and Olint TCI were licensed entities or it would have come up before.
Tafari
That is a strong point – if the FSC conducted their investigation and found something terribly wrong like a clear case of fraud or a major ponzi scheme then they shld have reported it to the police…..why didn’t they??
Why did they take his computers during the raid? what did they find? if they found anything criminal then they shld have called in the cops…..
if they found nothing then that tells a story….if they found fraud then they shld have acted by reporting this to the police.
To simply say “think and act before u invest” is not enough….if nothing was found then maybe that wld have been a possible approach.
where is the selfish one Chris Walker?
@Tafari
You again miss the points…
1. There is no proof that at the time the FSC investigated the case to the point of detecting prosecutable fraud. As you saw in the case of TCI, this takes time. Not saying they found it or did not, just that there is no public info either way.
2. We do not know if they found enough evidence of prosecutable fraud and reported it to the DPP or fraud squad.
3. Their mandate was to determine if DS’ activities required a license. They so determined. And based on the text of their release they apparently determined, based on what they found, there was evidence to suggest he may not have been trading FX. Hence the use of the word Purports.
4. Your analogy about discovering murder makes no sense. However it appears to make sense to you because in your mind you have convinced yourself that you know that they found enough evidence to prosecute him.
5. Consider even the mighty SEC. Markopolous?… the dude that had tracked Madoff and discovered his fraud… he pointed out before Congress that the SEC dudes were not trained to ferret out that kind of fraud.
6. The fraud squad, DPP and the FSC employees are trained with different skills. This is why the departments have different mandates. The FSC focus and training is to enforce the securities laws, not to investigate and prosecute fraud. Well concealed fraud can require skilled forensic accountants and investigators to unravel. Do the regulators regularly have the staff with those types of skills?
Anyway you like most all the investors… especially when you were giving DS your money… you all know what you know… become set in your ideas… and no amount of logic can change your mind. This is called the sucker trait. We have seen this trait in abundance on these blogs.
what r the things they wld have been looking for during their heavily armed polive raid – 3 actually.
Tafari called me a liar. He said “Not red flags, not bull…., real hard evidence, similar to that gathered by the TCI police. They got it during the raid. AND THEY DID NOTHING.” I said that he made statements that “implied that [he] knew the nature of the evidence and that it was sufficient to ground a conviction.” He said “At no time did I say that evidence gathered was “sufficient to ground a conviction”.
Well, if it it wasn’t sufficient to ground a conviction, why is Tafari saying that the FSC did nothing?
I must say that I like Tafari’s analogy. It is possible, as nocotec says, that the FSC’s training and perspective caused them to look at the information it had in one way and not another (ie, for regulatory/adminstrative purposes and not forensic/criminal). But the dead bodies analogy is a good one because despite specialist training sometimes you do find a dead body or some other obvious evidence of a serious crime and you don’t need specialist training to know that you must call the police and do so promptly.
So, did the FSC come across the equivalent of a dead body and, if it did, did it report it to the proper authority (police or DPP or both)?
Congratulations to you. motion to dismiss denied. Impressive. The Mastercard lawyers are of a different ilk than the Smith clan.
But I won’t take anything away from your victory. Well done.
By the way, Guess who’s coming to dinner?
Even if it did not find a dead body, we can still ask whether the FSC reported what it found to the proper authority. If it didn’t, why didn’t it? If it did, what did the police or DPP do? Why didn’t they prosecute?
With respect to the last question, the Roper letter concerning the then DPP contains relevant information. What about the other questions? Does anyone have information (in addition to the famous meeting with voices raised) to support answers either way?
This argument between tafari and noncotec about media and use of media is everlasting.
Smith made it abundantly clear in his own taped words that his lawyers laugh at media use.
Alas they are no more….For The Moment. Did they really find it laughable.
If they did it seems they changed their minds very recently Smithy. Console them nuh Smithy? Let them call you. I don’t need to hear from them. It’s embarrasing for me to here them come off the big talk and wimper now.
floridian said: :Nice one Bob. No one in your list really makes decisions in Jamaica. They follow edicts, instructions etc. Just like David and Wayne Smith.”
Who issues the edicts, then? How do you describe the people above the minister? Do you mean the prime minister, or another entirely different level like the dons?
But anyway, my question was trying to illustrate the chain of people (and paperwork) that get involved in this kind of decision. I am happy to add the issuers of edicts to the list. I accept that Jamaica has a lot of corruption but I also know that in certain kinds of matters (particularly involving financial institutions, multiple interests, money and the courts) it is not as “simple” as corruption in public sector contracts or housing and other big money honey pots. It is a lot more difficult to bury information and to avoid detection. Not saying it can’t be done, but it would involve a lot of people and require fairly intricate planning and flawless execution. Are the people you have in mind who are pulling the strings capable, in your opinion, of pulling it off?
The mastercard team has much more depth and experience.
Smith’s backers introduced him to the ‘Jamaicans’ they strip our money from him and tell him everything is going to be o.k. After that it’s just living the lie.
Mastercards people are truly indifferent if they want to defend against a Plaintiff or Jump down Smith’s crew it does not matter either way for them. No emotions like the Ja lawyers who must consider other losses outside the Olint case.
@Bob
Well at you least you read it and saw some relevance of that letter. I wonder if others have read it
Here is another quote from the letter.
“This surprise is based on the fact that he is aware that the FSC’s actions in the search of Olint’s New Kingston premises in March 2006 were executed with the cooperation of the Office of the DPP, a position from which he retired only in November 2008.
The legal basis for the FSC’s actions had been communicated to the Office of the DPP prior to the search and has since been vindicated by the courts, as the FSC’s authority to conduct such operations is clearly specified in the Securities Act.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090417/letters/letters2.html
This letter is a must read…
Did the DPP at the time have interests in OLINT?
I think Pantry had money in Olint 🙂
Said Smith: “Indeed, on the instructions I have from Mr Hibbert and on the basis of the documents which the Serious Fraud Office (in the United Kingdom) supplied to us, it is patently clear that officers from Mabey and Johnson have tried to use Mr Hibbert’s name as a means of siphoning off funds from the company,” Smith alleged.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20090715T020000-0500_155442_OBS_HIBBERT_GOES.asp
Calls for Hibbert’s resignation came from the PNP shortly after Britain’s Serious Fraud Office visited Jamaica as part of its corruption investigation.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090715/lead/lead1.html
John Doe was this Serious Fraud Office (SFO) ever mentioned in the Olint calamity?
@JohnDoe
I think the Roper letter appeared during my sabbatical 🙂
Interesting read. It fits in with what I have been trying to get some of these guys to understand. As Jay indicates Pantry likely had money in the UFOs. Many of the arguments I have seen recently from some of the investors indicate a lack of understanding of ‘how tings run in a Ja’.
As I stated … Across all sectors of JA society many, many high profile folks such as lawyers, doctors, police, politicians invested in the UFOs. In that environment there was no need to bribe anyone, enough important people had a vested interests to see them left alone to protect their investments.
Further, if you are bribing folks, why would you choose to bribe the opposition? No, you give them money based on a promise to deliver in the future. When they fail to deliver and you find they were typical politicians ‘fooling you up’, you turn against them.
JA went crazy, it is just unbelievable how many people who should have had more sense got caught with investments in Olint and the other UFOSs. Look at the working paper from the IMF and you will realize that as a percentage of GDP invested in UFO’s, we stand way above everyone else in 2nd place… only Albania stands way above us in 1st.
@ Noco and Dead Monkey
There is a ring of truth to what DMonk says, in the 90’s I knew a white guy who embezzled 8mil from the insurance brokerage he managed. He paid back maybe 200k and got 6 months at Richmond prison farm. Also, I know a black guy who was caught redhanded with 100 lbs. of compressed ganja. I think he spent 1 night in lockup and nutn since. That was 2 years ago. Of course the evidence was conveniently lost and arresting officers never ever showed up to court.
So dead monkey, it would appear that injustice is colour blind. Its the colour of your money that counts, not the shade of your skin. 🙂
Question: Could the access to information act be used to determine exactly what the FSC’s findings were from the FSC raid on Olint?
Peace
@RedP
I could give you all kinds of stories like yours and you would know the names of the parties involved. This is part of what I mean about, some folks are either not Jcans or they have been away so long they forget or don’t know how tings run in a JA.
The difference with Olint is that I really do not think DS needed to bribe anyone to stay out of jail. So many of the important persons had money in Olint, I do not think he needed to bribe anyone. Inferring from the statement of the then DPP statement to tv… which is more likely of the 2… DS gave him money to lay off or he or others of import to him had money in Olint?
The newspapers in JA like Fox in the USA have over the years aligned themselves with various political parties. Some times the party alignment changes. Is it because they are receiving direct payments? Or is because they have a vested interest in the success of that party?
With regards to Olint and the UFOs? There is a strong likelihood that one columnist was paid to play… though if you look at the partial list of Olint investors, you can also ask if that person did not have people with money invested. I think much of the newspaper treatment was because writers, reporters, editors etc either had money invested or were close to people with money invested.
Floridian said:
This argument between tafari and noncotec about media and use of media is everlasting.
//////////////////
Come again? Was I engaged in an argument with Noco regarrding media? I don’t recall…..Please help!
Bob said:
I said that he made statements that “implied that [he] knew the nature of the evidence and that it was sufficient to ground a conviction.
this is another blatant lie bob. You did not say that that i made statements that “implied anything. Here is what you said:
“You appear to know with great certainty two important things about the FSC raid:
1. They got evidence sufficient to ground a conviction of specific persons for a crime; and
2. They did nothing with it”.
What the Bomboc#@+ is wrong with people on this blog? Are you guys incapable of speaking the truth? Dude you lied to say that you didn’t lie. This is hilarious.
Bob:
I will no longer respond to any of your postings.
Here is a guy with no credibility.
For my edification, Could someone please tell me why it took TCI legal system approximately 7 months to file charges against DS, (and it seemed to me very soon after the 1st to hearing to decide whether or not to unfreeze Olints funds), And then comparing it to Madoff and Stanford in which it took very little time to arrest and file formal charges. When the months wore on and nothing was done, It gave me the hope that everything was going to be ok. As I remember I thought that the TCI gov would make statements periodically and say nothing was found. Thanks for the input. -Ter
Since we know that Tafari is trading, can I get a shout out of everyone that is presently trading the forex? And if you are trading now, did you start trading before or after you knew of Olint and the Forex industry. I never new much about 4x until after I had heard about Olint and Trader Dave.
-Ter
Or should I say ………. Dave the trader
Ter: For my edification, Could someone please tell me why it took TCI legal system approximately 7 months to file charges against DS… And then comparing it to Madoff and Stanford in which it took very little time to arrest and file formal charges…
1. Remember Madoff confessed.
2. In the case of Sanford, one of the insiders turned state’s evidence. He has since pleaded guilty and as is usual he is awaiting sentencing…. they want to see and make sure he fully cooperates and gives up everything he knows before they recommend a sentence.
3. TCI does not have amount of resources and expertise of the US Govt.
4. It would be very unusual for the police or prosecutors to give public updates on the progress of an investigation. Since it may tip off the uncharged perpetrator and public comments may prejudice the case. And public statements lock the prosecution or for that matter the defense into the position previously stated.
And if it is in an investigation state, it has been determined that the amount of evidence or the nature of the evidence is not yet sufficient to file charges… plus the guy may be innocent or you may not find sufficient evidence to file charges and you do not want to prejudice opinion against him.
@BOB
What does the words “appear” and “imply”? Can someone provide a definition a blogger ?
My primary school teacher would say that bloggers writing needs to be
cleaned with bleach!
Meanings in context….
implied that [he] knew the nature of the evidence and that it was sufficient to ground a conviction.
You appear to know with great certainty two important things about the FSC
raid:
Implied: hint at, suggested
appear: To seem or look to be, To seem likely
Folks no matter what people say resisting any kind of regulation is putting up a big red flag in my opinion. If Olint was operating in USA and they asked him to register or he was working in any grey area he would comply immediately.
I hope folks dont get 10% return per month constitutes some kind of ponzi but promising it does.
There is no way a legitimate investment house can promise returns especially monthly unless it is investing in Notes, just another red flag.
Many months my fund (futures based) does exceptional numbers, sometimes double digits but we would never tell potential investors we made 14% last month so we can PROMISE 14% next month, no way! actually that is totally illegal, the market is a market and their is no way to guarantee future returns.
A lot of people allow greed to mask their rational thoughts and so the is nature of man.
“You appear to KNOW WITH GREAT CERTAINTY”
IS mucH DIFFERENT FROM “implied that you knew”
Would you agree?
And nowhere and at no time did I suggest, imply, or allude to the fact that the evidence found could lead to a conviction…….I said they chose to do nothing, or not to crahge, or even maybe entered into a conspiracy to let the thief go free.
Get the difference?
Tafari Francis, on July 15th, 2009 at 3:51 pm Said: ……”I said they chose to do nothing, or not to crahge, or even maybe entered into a conspiracy to let the thief go free.”
crahge? Do you mean charge?
I made a promise to myself not to get into this childish game with you, but I couldn’t help myself this time around, given your propensity to highlight other bloggers spelling errors. As Nocotec said, do you see how ridiculous you now APPEAR? 🙂
Sure seems like we need Bushmaster to reveal some more info in order to stop this back and forth bickering about who should answer what questions, who is on who’s side, what the FSC should and shouldn’t have done, and who can and kan’t spell.
Bushmaster WHERE are you?!
I will allow the persons to judge how much implied is different from appeared. (in this context)
What is perceived to be implied my not be what was wanted to be implied or if implied at all.
What is perceived to have appeared my not be what appeared, if it appeared at all.
This is a strong letter…..
“In light of the foregoing, we think it would be appropriate for Pantry to declare openly whether he has any vested interest in, or relationship with any, of the unregulated investment schemes. Such a declaration would assist members of the public to put his statements in their proper context.”
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090417/letters/letters2.html
Test:
Using the word “mine” instead of ‘mind” is NOT a spelling error. Nor is it a typo. It reminds me of the six-year olds I taught a long time ago.
Furthermore, I elected to point out that error ONLY after a typo was used in an attempt to discredit me…sort of what you just did.
That was quite clearly NOT an actual ” spelling error ” but a typing error. If you scroll up you will notice that the word “charge” was correctly spelled in an earlier Tafari post. But of course you don’t care about that……Right?
Ter:
I knew about the FOREX “market” before I found out about Olint. I studied and started trading only after the Olint collapse.
Trading is a roller coaster. Sometimes up, sometimes down. Today, for instance, I did nothing because I needed to clear my nerves after a bad trade last night. Hopefully I will have a better night tonight.
I am learning new ways to identify movement every day.
I wonder if Tafari is not someone we already know from a previous incarnation?????
We are concerned that a former public official who had held the position of DPP, as Pantry had, would be promoting these views, especially in light of the fact that the Court of Appeal has reserved judgment in the matter of Olint’s appeal against the judgment of the Supreme Court that it was conducting securities business illegally. It would also be very unfortunate for a person, who held a key position within the chain of enforcement, to be viewed as using his undoubted standing within the community to defend, even if inadvertently, unlawful activity.
Taken from the Gleaner article, the link to which was posted by Anonymous.
Ineresting biit of reading. The director of public prosecutions in Jamaica…………………..
Wow! If this is true, why is it that the former DPP take such a position? Any suggestions Noco?
That should read…why would the DPP take such a position?
That should read…interesting bit of reading…sorry I’m human after all.
Tafari: Wow! If this is true, why is it that the former DPP take such a position? Any suggestions Noco?
Bowy you know how long I have been telling people to read that article…
@Nocotec and Jay
Time for research:
a) figure out who Carol Pantry could be?
b) then run a cross check on bushmaster revelations?
c) then read the article again
It is interesting that to the best of my knowledge the Former DPP did not respond to George Roper’s letter.
Tafari,
I think Nocotec already responded to that before.
Sorry Nocotec, I did not see your response before 🙂
@Tafari
Do the research suggested by JohnDoe and then let me know if I yet again have been correct.
@JohnDoe
Good info. By the way, I think there is a Wignall on the list too, though I do not know if there is a relationship.
@Jay
Easy to miss, Tafari reads but he does not comprehend so he asks the same things over and over. 🙂
John Doe,
Forget about Carol Pantry, I just did a little research and this is what I found.
Check this link, and do scroll down this list (1doc/Members.xls).
Go down to P and look very carefully, last name first followed by First name , then report back.
I cannot believed that I missed this.
Hey I forgot to post the link, so here it is.
http://www.olintja.com/documentsevidence.htm
Wow. Good find Jay.
@Nocotec and Jay
LOL how did we miss that?
Unbelievable. LOL
Hey, Guys when I posted that post with the smiley face earlier this morning I really had no idea.
@ JohnDoe, I am still trying to figure out how we all missed, now where do we go from here.
JohnDoe/Nocotec is this worth an article by itself, what do you guys think. ?
I will just do the reading this time around 🙂
Look at the amount 53…
Well I tell you, not sure how we missed it but there was something about that article. It had hidden nuggets that we just did not follow upon.
I hinted at it from as way back in June.
We have been telling people that many in the top echelons of Jamaica society was swindled no ends up. The problem was simple, people were con and blinded by their greed.
No need for bribes needed here ( can’t say if there was any or not) but when you are blinded you are blind.
Indeed an article by itself is needed. I was wonder ing too if the FSC would respond to some questions from us.
@yoda
Thanks for your thoughts and welcome…
Darn, George Roper gave us the clue and we simply did not follow up on it, here is the clue. This was taken from the link to the letter posted by JohnDoe earlier today
Declare openly
In light of the foregoing, we think it would be appropriate for Pantry to declare openly whether he has any vested interest in, or relationship with any, of the unregulated investment schemes. Such a declaration would assist members of the public to put his statements in their proper context.
@Jay
He could not have made it clearer without beaching confidentiality. Remember the FSC had access to the same list as Bushmaster.
I tried to get across something similar about the Cease and Desist Order. The use of the word Purports and the phrase… purports to be trading FX… if one understands these kinds of releases and public statements is a clear indication that the Dude was not trading FX.
Based on the above, I am thinking that the information taken from the computers which were seized from Olint offices had a name(s) that must have shocked the FSC.
The reason being that one of the names which appeared on the members listed happened to be the persons who had to/ or was required to make a ruling on the very case between the FSC vs Olint, wow how embarassing that must have been for the DPP.
I think now we are beginning to assemble the pieces of the puzzle in a more coordinated way, thanks to the insight and input of many of the bloggers on this site, who have asked very pertinent questions, which has caused us to go searching for answers.
This one is going to be interesting.
@ Nocotec,
You are absolutely correct, George Roper gave has much information as he could.
One question some would ask, is why would he not share that information with the TCI regulators, unless that would be breach of confidentiality .
Whatever the reason, that letter, as well as the information contained in the Cease and Desist order spoke volumes, if only people had paid attention.
Now looking back we see the pieces lining up nicely, and really confirms that Olint was a Ponzi Scheme from the beginning, at least prior to Marh 2006
The office was raided in March 2006 and Olint was in operation for approx a year or little over a year before the raid.
I suspect therefore that Olint went to TCI with little or no money after which people poured in over US$200M, to inject new life into the ponzi scheme.
This was the only reason why they were able to stay afloat for another year before collapsing.
Olint collapsed from around June 2006..
if olint was a ponzi from 2006 then the fsc deserves to be held to answer….but i thnk they saw otherwise
they saw legitimate trading thats why they had to pursue to no securities license route.
Remember the FSC raided the offices with armed forces – what were they looking for?? they believed that Olint was a ponzi scheme b4 the raid why wouldn’t they alert the police if they found fraud….doesn’t make sense…
I think they went in and found that legitimate trading was taking place…
On a different note…many persons including the harshest critics of DS are not going to claim beacuse of their US status and the belief that they will be asked to answer why they did not pay their taxes!!
On this blog – once the views expressed r not for ripping DS to pieces they are met with a high level of suspicion and disdain.
The objective is not truth but blog conviction of DS at all costs.
Jay, on July 15th, 2009 at 9:23 pm Said:
“Olint collapsed from around June 2006..”
—
Smith was having payment problems to MTI and some people was panicking.
You have to track errand boy’s movements(plus the Mexicans) and when MTI was doing Olint’s sales calls into Jamaica to narrow down the events of who knew when and what.
Who are the US and UK government targeting? The banks? The politicians? Or everyone who keep Olint alive after the raid. The raid more or less did shut down Olint but they jump ship (Jamaica) and found a new home and a new spokesperson for DS.
As what I have said in the beginning that Jamaica operates on the word of mouth. This is how society operates in third world when you do not have everyone reading the newspaper. And also can you believe what is written in the newspaper?
What about the judges? They were giving Olint all type of injunctions and hence the ability to drag this out the court cases. The United Kingdom Privy Council made mention of this and was astound at the way the Jamaican Courts were doing things without any legal merits. I could see this from our blogging days on the C+ blog!
If you look at the top of the Excel Spreadsheet, there are people that their names are still a secret. Floridian had said repeatedly that Olint investors also worked at the FSC.
Wantmymoney says,
“if olint was a ponzi from 2006 then the fsc deserves to be held to answer….but i thnk they saw otherwise
they saw legitimate trading thats why they had to pursue to no securities license route.”
Read the letter which was posted by JohnDoe and which was written by George Roper.
Next READ THE cease and desist order issued by the FSC, AND when your done read this post .
Then report back here your findings.,
@wantmymoney
a) Have you read the letter yet? and read back all the posts on July 15, 2009
b) Have you read the Cease and Desist Order
c) Have done the research set out?
Wantmymoney, on July 15th, 2009 at 10:50 pm Said:
if olint was a ponzi from 2006 then the fsc deserves to be held to answer….but i thnk they saw otherwise
they saw legitimate trading thats why they had to pursue to no securities license route.
///////////////////////
Dude, it disgusts me too that anyone who expres view contrary to that of the blog administrators is immediately attacked. That said, your view that the FSC saw “legitimate trading” suggests to me that the FSC raided Wall Street new York.
The FSC saw, and collected evidence of a ponzi scheme. The follow-up investigations revealed that money was deposited in accounts and withdrawn to pay disbursements. The information that I have suggest that the police had the information and that government ministers intervened.
But even now, Wantmymoney, do you really believe that David Smith has even an honest toe-nail?
I did some digging and confirmed what was said on this blog to me sometime ago. The guy was a thief since he worked at the bank.
So, wantmymoney, are you hoping that on Aug 5 he will give you back all your money?
In the end of 2006 there was a POSSIBLE meeting with a minister that FX trading was a legitimate industry or to explain to them what FX trading was.
Question: Who was the minister? Why do I have the clues?
Tafari Francis, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:11 am Said:
“But even now, Wantmymoney, do you really believe that David Smith has even an honest toe-nail?”
—
Explain this one. Have you been listening to someone’s rambling or is there a true threat out there.
As someone else suggested, is there a terrorist out there?
@Tafari
I thought about now you would be on the blog apologizing… aah not really 🙂
I expect you to do the usual stuff… about now your nick would disappear and pretty soon a new nick would appear 🙂
I see the info you have has evolved… now your info is that government ministers intervened with the police… Are you sure of your timeline? Was it ministers in the PNP gov or was it ministers in the JLP gov? Why don’t you just put all your info on the table so we can have you pinned down to one position? 🙂
In the end of 2006
Oct. to Nov.
http://www.olintja.com/NCBOLINTaffidavit.htm
Did Smith influence or corrupt all parties?
This is great info thanks AML!
WordPress Fixes Multiple vulnerabilities
http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=6763
Something is wrong with this site because the scripting on this site keeps crashing my brower for the last week.
I think it is your wierd counter that is crashing the browser.
AML, what browser are you using? I have not had that problem.
Incidentally I think that problem occurs on explorer, but no such problem with firefox
I understand from my cousin in Broward County that Dr.Walker scored a major victory today as Federal Judge Cohn remanded his case back to the State Court and in doing so refused to stop the progress of his case against MasterCard and Hallmark Bank, thus allowing the “Discovery Phase” of the lawsuit to proceed. The Doctor seems to be making progress in the USA as opposed to most of us in JA with lawsuits pending in the Supreme Court. Sad to say I am not surprised. I keep getting nothing but excuses from my lawyer as to why I can’t get momentum with my case in the Supreme Court.
The word from Turks is that David Smith has hid under his bed when the Doctors service processors appear.
Tracey I hope you are cleaning the house properly. When the Americans arrive, make sure they do not smell any marijuana at the residence.
The PNP is going to seek Allan Hutchinson’s recall as the Consul General because of his breach of protocol in arranging a private meeting between the Prime Minister of Jamaica and a felon on bond.
It happens on IE 6 but not on IE8.
I think you need to have a talk with
http://edge.quantserve.com/
who is doing your counter. This is a scripting issue.
It was mentioned along time ago that flash was embedded into the pages at the beginning of the year.
Some of the scripts can be quite invasive.
Hw could Hutinson be a consul when he ran an OLint feeder club in Turks. The taxpayers are paying to be fleeced!
Is this a new revelation Dead Monkey? What was the name of the Feeder Club?
I still don’t get the importance/relevance of OC to the whole Olint matter. What I’m I missing here?
AML, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:37 am Said:
Tafari Francis, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:11 am Said:
“But even now, Wantmymoney, do you really believe that David Smith has even an honest toe-nail?”
–
Explain this one. Have you been listening to someone’s rambling or is there a true threat out there.
As someone else suggested, is there a terrorist out there?
///////////////
??????????????????????????
AML:It happens on IE 6 but not on IE8.
The # 1 reason for the spread of malware is failure to update operating systems, browser software and other software. Keeping up to date on versions and fixes is best. Continuing to use IE6 is begging for trouble.
I think AML might be concern about other “vulnerbilities” other than malware/viruses.
He does have the option of using IE8, which would eliminate his problem, but elect to continue using IE6 (not IE7, not IE8).
Sam Sharpe et.al.
Most of you with lawsuits are unfortunately going to get the shaft again. You guys waited too long.
1. The first order of business should be to have the TCI liquidator consolidate all the variations of Olint. See the link by AML to the DS affidavit above. Notice he declares that the Olint JA, and Olint Panama money was all moved to Olint TCI. If the liquidation is not consolidated any assets recovered will go only to thiose that had direct accounts with Olint TCI.
2. You are being shafted by the system in the Caribbean. It does not appear that the people appointed as liquidators for these schemes are very aggressive. Notice that in the USA the trustee, who plays the role of the liquidator, is the one filing the lawsuits against the various parties to recover funds. For example the liquidator should be the one suing MTI/I-Trade.
3. This is akin to retaining legal counsel on a contingency basis for the class of investors .Investors are not out pocket for the fees, it is paid from recovered money.
4. When the TCI liquidator is done, there will probably not be any money left for those in individual lawsuits to recover. Unless one of the suits against one of the 3rd parties is successful. And that is not going to easy. Wish them luck.
I concur with your analysis. I can’t see why anyone would believe they will be getting back monies after this whole issue is settled. Most people waited too long, again waiting on what I have no idea. When the red flags appeared people should have been out.
I bet the wise folks got out when the going was good
Advice may be a scam in disguise
Investors who consider themselves fairly savvy would never touch a stock that they’ve heard about through a message board or spam e-mail. Those same investors, though, might end up handing thousands of hard-earned retirement dollars to a financial adviser they meet through friends at their union or church or bowling league.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090716/COL07/907160451/1081/Advice-may-be-a-scam-in-disguise
“On a different note…many persons including the harshest critics of DS are not going to claim beacuse of their US status and the belief that they will be asked to answer why they did not pay their taxes!!”
Rubbish. Can’t the team do beter than that at this late stage?
I really don’t think people are afraid to claim because of their US tax status but because of shame that they were totally scammed. I have been hearing thru the grape vine of many who lost everything with OLINT
http://www.olintja.com/NCBOLINTaffidavit.htm
“This was so that the club members of Overseas Locket and later Olint TCI could easily write cheques to OLINT and I could lodge the cheques either in Olint Corp (for onward transmission to Overseas Locket or to facilitate club member encashment) or in the name of Overseas Locket to facilitate the business of Overseas Locket.”
Checks are not the issues, it is the wire transfers that are the problems.
http://www.olintja.com/NCBOLINTaffidavit.htm
That the arrangements in writing are now as follows:
a. Hallmark Trust would take over all of the customers and club members of Olint TCI.
b. Olint TCI now has one client, Hallmark Trust
c. The Claimant will continue to service and provide club member care and customer service to all club members
—
Olint TCI should not be dictating to Hallmark Trust customers. Who or where is the management company.(This is the real question)
In c. does it mean that Hallmark Trust was paying Olint TCI to service Hallmark Trust customer?
Something does not add up. 1 plus 1 does not equal 1.
How did Olint TCI get paid. Is it that Hallmark Trust is responsible for the trading or trader. The Hallmark Trust contract is somewhere in the http://www.olintja.com website.
http://www.olintja.com/blog/archivebookmark.aspx?ID=651
CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT
http://www.olintja.com/blog/archivebookmark.aspx?ID=718
OPERATING AGREEMENT
http://www.olintja.com/blog/archivebookmark.aspx?ID=736
CUSTOMER AGREEMENT
http://www.olintja.com/blog/archivebookmark.aspx?ID=713
ESCROW AGREEMENT
Hmmm… As these conspiracy theories continue to be discredited… I wonder what the next one will be 🙂
Can anyone say Jackpot? But how reliable. Its amazing how clear it is to read the photos of the computer screens when you mag the image. But who would (and why) would someone take a pic of there computer screen like that. -Thanks -Ter
@AML
There are 2 ways to use wordpress.
1. Download wordpress and install it on your hosted website with your own domain or your website host may already support it and has a script to activate it.
2. Create a blog directly at wordpress.com We use the this method.
In method 1, the blogger or host is responsible for keeping the software up to date. In method 2 the software is automatically kept up to date by the designers.
Don’t be afaid Noncotec. The conspiracy not going into hiding. Facts and Docs are too much.
It is fully understood why you want certain aspects to go away. Our sympathy is with you. But they are not going anywhere.
You Dig? You can try check out anytime you want. But you can never leave.
Talk to your loyal subject.
Nonco you all should know that certain people not to be robbed. Or people will be put in their place.
…LATEST NEWS…
Antigua gov’t cautious in response to lawsuit from Stanford investors
CMC
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:08:48 PM
ST JOHN’S, Antigua – Prime Minister Baldwin Spencer says his government is presently weighing its options after seven Stanford International Bank investors filed a suit against his administration alleging cover-up of a multi-billion dollar fraud involving billionaire financier Sir Allen Stanford.
Lawsuits like this against the Antiguan gov should rightfully be dismissed. The only situation in which they should even be given any consideration except summary dismissal is where there was official gov action such as a meeting of Cabinet approving the action.
It would be pretty darn ridiculous if every time a minister or official of a gov was bribed that an aggrieved party could sue the whole country’s taxpayers. Clearly the only person(s) that are criminally and civilly liable is the bribed person(s).
Tafari has accused me of terminological inexactitude (to borrow Churchill’s famous phrase) in very aggessive terms. Perhaps I should be thankful, though, that he has not used the full range of his invective on me. But I am not sure. Just as you are defined by your friends and the company you keep, so too are you defined by those who stand against you. All the same, I have no time tonight to go back over the previous posts to once again rebut his unpleasant and groundless charges.
The discussion has moved on, I see, but just for the record, I did not lie.
@nocotec
You are right and wrong, IMHO. Right because sovereign immunity makes the claim a tough one to get through. On the other hand, for the cost of a few letters and court filing fees, they have gained (a) media attention, (b) the Antiguan government’s attention and (c) a “legitimate” basis to call on the political directorate in the United States. A settlement need not be large to make the strategy work. And if they can find a sympathetic judge (this point is mainly applicable if the case is not in federal court where the judges are not elected) they might even get a judgment in their favour at first instance. What do you think of that?
AML,
I thank you for sharing the facts pertaining to Hallmark Bank with us.
As I shared with you previously, my legal team after reviewing my contract and the overwhelming evidence are convinced that Hallmark Bank is one of the major players in the OLINT Ponzi scheme. Thus the reason for me to have them included in my lawsuit which is being filed in Federal Court.
Smith would not have been capable of pulling off this scheme by himself.
Firstly, he is not intellectually capable of such a feat and secondly he would have needed a criminal banking institution to transfer the money he collected to various third parties, all over the world. We can clearly see which bank did the dirty deed!!!!
The pieces are all coming together…..
AML et al please keep up the good work and continue to share these valuable “Pearls” with the rest of us.
I promise to keep you all abreast of my lawsuit and what lame excuses and legal tricks the likes of Hallmark Bank comes up with in an attempt to get out of their criminal behavior.
AML, any idea who I can report the criminal behavior of Hallmark Bank to?
Tafari
Yes I am still hoping to get back some money…..that’s my choice.
Sirach
I am simply reporting what has been said to me – many persons are afraid to claim because of their US status and the fact that they have not been paying thier taxes.
There are a few persons on this blog who are currently in serious hot water with their feeder investors (whose money did not end up in Olint) as well as the US govt.
Yes my brother had suggested not claiming “the earnings” because of the fact it may not really be there. but I felt I was between a rock and a hard place on that so I went and filed. NOCOTEC, HAVE ANY INFO or point of view ON LIKELY HOOD OF RECOUPING TAXED I paid into IRS? Thanks everyone who inputs. -Ter
AML
your analysis of Hallmark is correct…..
Sam Sharpe
Chris Walker is a disgrace to jamaica! don’t mention him in any other light. …..he epitomizes selfishness.
Voluntary Disclosure
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206012,00.html?portlet=7
Get right with the IRS—voluntarily disclose unreported offshore income.
Ponzi Scheme Losses
Help for Victims of Ponzi Investment Schemes
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205505,00.html?portlet=7
The IRS provides guidance on tax issues related to Ponzi schemes.
Thank you AML, you are very helpful. I need help with any info on the theft loss ruling. -Ter
I have an accountant handling it, but i need all the info I can get.
IRS Voluntary Disclosure: Questions and Answers
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=210027,00.html
To save yourself if your name is on the list.
Wantmymoney
Sorry to here that people are in trouble with the US authorities and with their accounts at Olint.
It”s sad to here. Have them drop me a line and I can solve all the percieved problems.
Wantmymoney
Stop worrying about Smithy so much.
King David was a shining example of one whose praise account was not only fully paid up, but had lots of interest accumulated
celtakirk@yahoo.com
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20090716T180000-0500_155535_OBS_BANKRUPT_PRAISES__.asp
@foridian
Buddy…… Pal……., with all respect , could ya please stop typing in riddles? When I read your posts, in my minds eye, I see the Riddler, from the old Batman series on TV, tapping on the keyboard, occasionaly
giving out a boisterous cackle!
Can I ask a simple question?
What is the aim of this thread??
@yoda
Are you talking to me? Is floridian your alter ego? Your are absolutely right. Ask questions. I appologize if I have offended you. It’s just that I think Floridian has a lot to offer but it hard to cut through the riddles. I find myself sometimes just skipping over his messages because they appear to me as Jabberwalky. Of course I havent been here long and maybe everthing he says makes sense to everyone else. Please point that out to me if that is the case . But I’m having troubles interpreting his messages. Thank you for your response.
-Ter
Terry you are correct but let me start by saying most people especially in jamaica approach trading the wrong way. I have been a trader since 1997 and traded a few year on wall street. The error when talking to traders especially those who trade forex is the lack of technical training. Most folks dont want to learn the technical aspects of trading and that is the problem they try to trade systems, an efficiency (which is a narrow windows) or just follow other recommendations.
If you want to be successful You need to trade technically-I have traded, every single market in the world because I am a technician.
Ter:
Floridian is also Sirach and who knows what else…..
All hail yoda.
Trading, good at it he is
🙂
Is this the trader Yoda that conducts webinars for MTI?
There is a Sharky as well? Yes, I’m a technical trader. 1st started to study tech from John Murphy. What indicators do you personally use. Have you heard of Jordan L. a forex mentor of sorts. Thank you for your input Yoda.
@miak
lol!
Funny you are.
have you blogged at either forex factory or Oanda?
@yoda
you said,
“What is the aim of this thread??”
Sorry, writing is rather one dimentional. I’m assuming your asking the above question because I am getting off track? Thanks for your input (TFYI)
-Ter
@AML
are you the person I know of in Atlanta. That has an uncle Earl. You own a hedge co. And the word Peaberry means something to you.
-Ter
@ ter?
Is that question directed @ me?
No I’ve never blogged at those places. (Not sure u were asking me or yoda).
yes you were the one miak. Ok thanks. your sign on just looked familiar
-thanks
-ter
What is it you want to know Ter? that you don’t know already.
Or is it that you want to know exactly what I know like the big man?
@floridian
lol, Floridian you are true to form. lol… Big man?
Nope not a technical trader for any of the above mentioned places. Forex is about 1% of my total trading as I mostly trade other instruments like bonds, oil, metals and the indices.
Technical analysis is the same in almost every market, A CHART IS A CHART, and yes some market have some individual characteristics but besides that technicals are technicals.
One the question of what I use i use a number of difference technical reading depending on the time frame and volume of the specific instrument.
best technical analyst and I have read alot thru my studies is Robert Prechter. Do some reading on his work you will never forget it. He was one of the few technical analyst who predicted the 1987 crash.
He has written a lot of book and i have about 3 of his books on pdf on a older computer if anyone interested I can surely share.
@Ter
The blog has been over fx trading numerous times. The facts are clear. 90 to 95 % of individual FX traders lose money or do not make significant sums. The vested interests (brokers, those selling courses etc) will tell you that it is because they do not study enough or your technique is bad etc.
The main reason is that FX trading is just a step up from the lottery. It depends on short term changes in the market and no matter what you use, these changes cannot be predicted with consistency. All kinds of world events can cause currency pairs to suddenly change their direction.
I can understand why folks still believe they will be the one of the lucky ones. There after all folks that buy the lottery every week. Some even buy all kinds of books that claim to increase their odds of winning. And yes each week there are winners of lottery. People do win.
The lottery and fx trading are the anti-marx. Instead of distributing wealth from the rich to the poor. It distributes money from the poor and concentrates it among a few. However I do understand that like the folks that must buy the lottery every week… for many, hope does spring eternal in the human breast… some folks have to cling to belief that if they keep up the gamble, one day their luck will come in.
There are ways to get rich…it is just not sexy. It usually involves living below your means… starting a business and or saving and investing for 20 plus years. Right about now is when I lose the get rich quick crowd.
…”Right about now is when I lose the get rich quick crowd.”
That’s a classic!!! Very funny I must say 🙂
@ Yoda
Excellent. I would love it if you dont mind sharing. Dont know how. thanks and my best to you.
-Ter
Correct there is a 90% failure rate for traders and i can definitely tell you most of that is contributed to 3 factors.
1)Too little capital to fully implement hedging techniques
2) Not prepared- as said before I think most rush into this thinking it is easy. I have been trading for 13 years and there is no easy things about it.
3)Don’t have the mentality for it. Just like many athlete who have the physical attributes to be great alot of success is also about your mental preparedness.
anyone would like my email address just send me a note.
1
Yoda
I would like it if you dont mind. I have some other question for you and would like your opinions.
Speaking of opinions, what is your opinion of Nocotec statement just above yours.
Do feel the forex is one step above the lottery?
If it is, why is it that banking/investing institution have such professionals “playing the lottery or gambling”
Is it all a lie, perpetrated by brokers and such, that you can succeed if you study and practice long enough?
Some say that “luck”, is when opportunity meets preparedness”.
Some say thats just crap. What can I say I’m an optimist.
TFYI
-Ter
Jay the big man buy you out?
Throw up a new thread.
I think the next big event will be the Dr. Walker show.
I think Jamaica is dead on their Olint problem. I think they do not know what to do with the fraudalent contracts. I think it was said in the beginning (FOLLOW THE MONEY).
Hey Wayne, did you work in a bank before?
Certain databases have interesting clues.
We have a broker, a bank, and who did Tracey work for?
@Ter
Remember FX trading is part of world commerce. As long as currencies are allowed to float against each other, a mechanism is required to determine the values relative to each other. Most of the action occurs by the mega players. Currencies must move back and forth to pay for world trade.
The big players can make millions by using leverage and placing small percentages of their funds at risk. Small movements can still generate huge returns. For the individual small investor, to generate meaningful returns requires taking much more risk… in other words one must ‘gamble’ much more and more often than not suffer the consequences of significant loss.
This how it works. Think of the lottery… Say you net $1000 per week. If you spend a $10 week on the lottery, if you lose you still have $990. You have lost 1 %.
If you net $100 and spend the same $10 trying to win the same amount. You lose, now you have $90 and instead of being 1 % poorer, you are down 10 %.
See the difference it is still a gamble but the rich guy (big banks etc) can afford the gamble, the poor guy cannot.
In forex the small investor is doing the same when placing a trade. Using leverage (mini, micro, standard account) and depending on the platform you can taylor your leverage (oanda). You can use 100:1 20:1, my personal favorite 2-8:1. Again I can trade like the big boys. Utilizing a small percentage of my base investment and reaping huge returns (huge of course is relative to the investor(s)) Of course you have to leverage if one seeks have any effect with movement of only pennys. It is a world commerce yes, which makes it unlikely that one or group of banks can corner the market or sway the market (there is literature that suggest that world banks communicate, but whether they are able to sway the market for any degree or length of time, because of the tremendous volume of retail forex traders, is unproven ). The forex does react to news but a lot is foreseen. As an example, thats why many stay out, or strattle certain currency pairs during non- farm reports. To me the stock market reacts more, to any hint of bad or good news, than does the currency market. With great respect afforded to your referal of the lottery. I see the lottery as a 100% gamble, with 0% analyticle insight and logical decision making. I personally see trading as 90-95% insight and logic with 5-10% being at the mercy of the winds. I’m sure you can appreciate that, you seem very analytical. Whether or not one suceeds is based mainly on:
1. If he has done his homework and is conservative in his trading to survive a few years to gain vital experience to develop a winning system.
2. If he has the disipline to stick to the system.
You are correct in say the 90% fail. Probably that 90% you speak of are the get rich crowd. Logically the other 10% cannot be completely made up of investment insitution and those individual traders who are among that elite10% are there, not by lottery luck but are those who you have rightly and eloquently described… when you said,
“There are ways to get rich…it is just not sexy. It usually involves living below your means… starting a business and or saving and investing….”
Forex is just as much of a business as any that one of us might be involved in. Majority of hard work, logical thinking and insight, with small amount of whatever the world brings at us. Thank you for your time in reading this.
Nocotec, have you traded the 4x?
-Ter
Finally some sense on the blog…welcome Ter!!!!!
Please keep blogging u clearly have forex experience pls continue to teach those willing to listen….
@ Wanttolearnforex
There is a copany that may still teach Forex trading. i think it’s called MTI.
Charles Ross, the managing partner of investment company Sterling Asset Management since its formation nearly a decade ago, has bought out the other shareholders to become its single owner, Ross has confirmed.
He said the deal, in which he acquired the 48.9 per cent of the company that was held by Mildred Moss, Winston Hepburn and Wallace Nelson, was concluded in March, but declined to disclose how much he paid for the shares, or other terms of the acquisition.
He is waiting for the industry to open up. In the meantime, the company is on a campaign to showcase the talent in the organisation, with the latest advertisement this week focussed on [Olint middleman] David Weir, head of investment and client services.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090717/business/business1.html
As expected the trend of giving coverage to persons featured on the http://www.olintja.com website continues unabated in the island’s oldest newspaper.
Today’s edition of the Jamaica gleaner features three ‘stars’ of the olintja blog.
Those with olint related investments through Weir wait in the wings as their calamity mounts daily.
Ross has been selected to head a commission of inquiry into Finsac.
Sterling Tortola has also featured prominently on olintja.com.
Since the start of the year President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Gordon Brown have repeatedly expressed deep concerns for offshore banking centers and lack of transparency in governance.
Jay do not try to silence me.I have the goods on you also
@Dead Monkey
Your are still posting, so whats your problem?
How about a new thread Jay? I’m ready to take it up a notch.
Let us reast Smith and prime Minister’s and Presidents for the moment. The Big Man Time Now.
Which Big Man Floridian ?
You are all right, Nocotec, Yoda, and Ter. You might ask how.
Trading is a high risk game, like boxing or politics. The reason it is high risk is that people are coming straight at you to take you out, they dont take pity, just like in boxing or politics. Its a zero sum game, if I win on a trade, somebody else (or more than one person) lost.
What is the chance that a novice could walk in off the streeet, and register to fight Tyson, Ali, Frasier, or Roy Jones, or run against Obama, or Bill Clinton or even Eddie Seaga, or Manley, and win? The chance is slim to none, they would be torn to shreds in short order.
But yet we tell novice traders that they can step into the ring (market) against the trained financial killers in New York, and London and Tokyo, Zurich and Frankfurt. I have worked with these people for years, and many of them are a lot smarter than me, and whats more they have no feelings, and have long ago forgotten how to sleep.
So if you think you are going to practice on an Oanda demo account for a few weeks and wire $5000 from your checking account, box them in the face and take their money warm and easy, think again.
The answer is that a novice will have to remake himself in order to take those guys money. To forget everything you think you know about stress and hard work, and steel your mind to the fact that you will lose money for a while before you make money. If you’re lucky you will lose for a few months, most will bounce around in profit and loss (more of the latter) for up to a year before they give up the ghost. A few will endure to make a living.
The good news is that short of borrwoing a rusty nine and joining Stone Crushers of One Order, there are very few ways to measure yourself in today’s society. You will learn more about yourself in one month of trading than in a lifetime kissing @ss in some 9 to 5 in New Kingston.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Foreign-Exchange-Mastering-opt-15122297.html?.v=1
-Söze
Give it a shot Jay. Remember you want to write a book right? Show the power of advanced intuition and investigative skills.
Later Today:
What the Olintja blog means. What it is saying. Its Impact. Under the surface. Why some love it and some hate it. Its impact on a nation, its people and the ‘system’.
A paradigm shift in legal cases for the future. Internet Age. Change. Resistance to Change.
Traditional media and the future. VHS? Betamax? DVD? Blue ray.
The deeper significance of the Olint case.
Olintja.com…….WHY?
How?When? Where? What? What Next?
Guess who’s coming to dinner?
Who really runs Jamaica?
Heads Up Jay:
If everybody logs on one time as I suspect you might want to prep for some banwidth issues.
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1491&id=8
“…the Hollywood parties, lavish living, private jet flying, all at the people’ expense, have subsided…”
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1492&id=8
“The people involved in this creating this scheme have a track record that must bring there good judgment into question.”
http://www.tcijournal.com/index.php?idsub=1493&id=8
This means he has the power to axe the House of Assembly and the Cabinet at different times as well as create an advisory council and consultative forum and lift the right to jury trial all independently of each other.
http://www.tcweeklynews.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1420&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2404&hn=tcweeklynews&he=.com
Demonstrators give MPs marching orders
VOCIFEROUS protestors gathered outside Parliament on Wednesday to demand all MPs stand down immediately – or work for free.
Dozens of noisy demonstrators, armed with placards and a megaphone, assembled in the baking midday sun to give politicians their marching orders.
The spirited scenes in the nation’s capital came as the House of Assembly convened for what is likely to be the penultimate time before the return to British rule.
The picket mirrored similar events staged this week in North Caicos and Providenciales.
Cries of ‘Vive le British’, toots of support from passing cars and a bus bedecked with banners added fuel to the fire.
Islanders took to the streets with signs urging MPs to ‘Resign and go home, you are all millionaires’.
http://www.tcweeklynews.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1421&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2404&hn=tcweeklynews&he=.com
I agree with Floridian.Jamaica is run by one bloated
criminal.Everyone knows who.
Floridian, David Smith was financing all the girlie parties with Missick in Turks. God Save The Queen.
@Ho Chi Minh
One might say you are a few bricks shy of a full load… Or to be more direct… many of your neurons are disabled and are not firing.
You need to make your conspiracies more believable. If DC did give OC money to suppress or print stories, why would this be a crime the Feds would be indicting him for? What is the exact crime?
The stories or lack of stories in the newspaper is a crime? And this made investors take leave of all common sense and invest?
Mr. Soze: Its a zero sum game, if I win on a trade, somebody else (or more than one person) lost.
A correction. It is not a zero sum game, it may be called a modified zero sum game. There are 2 main reasons why:
1. There are numerous suckers born every minute. New suckers are constantly joining the game and adding new money to the pool as they seek their pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
2. Central banks can and do, from time to time, print more money or remove money from the pool by adding or buying up currencies.
Nocotec, in the modified zero sum game you talk about, the novice will be even worse off. 1. The novice is the sucker you talk about, so he would prefer a 100% zero sum game to your scenario. and 2. printing money doesnt benefit him, and is only theoretical to the novice, who is more than likely a short term trader, in fact, the volatility that comes with the suspiciion that a central bank is printing money only accelerates the losses of a novice, as the sudden movements decimate his account before he can tell his @sshole from his elbow.
-Söze
@nocotec
Have you traded the forex?
@soze
Are you 4x trader. I thought I saw that you said “But yet we tell novice traders that they can step into the ring …..”
Because of the 4 words “but yet we tell” I am wondering if you are, or have been, a 4x trader or have taught students regarding the forex.
-Thanks Soze for your response
-Ter
@Ter
There is no real reason for me to rehash the arguments about Fx trading.
Consider this…
1. If I told you that that I invented a game and only 1 out of 20 will win… who would play? Gamblers, who believe they have something special and can be the 1 out of 20.
2. Fx trading is short term, sort of akin to day trading stocks. If it is not a step above from the lottery… can you accurately predict what the currency pairs values to each other will be 1 sec from now, 1 minute, 1 hour, 4 hours…? If you have very large sums at your disposal, as I pointed out before you can use techniques to mitigate the gamble.
3 As the period extends over months and years, you can make predictions with a higher chance of success by looking at factors such as trade and current account deficit trends. It is still a chance but the odds of success can increase with analysis..
4. As I pointed out before, this is best left to professionals. By that I mean people who are trading other people’s money, not their own. Easier to do because the emotional aspect associated with gains and losses can be suppressed.
5. A question to ask is why have you chosen to play in this game? Is it because you perceive that you can make lots of money and relatively quickly? Why not choose other methods that are more long term and the odds of success are much greater than 1 in 20?
In any case I know you guys are big man and woman… you will do what suits you. And like the gold rush bug, once you guys are bitten there is just about nothing that can be said to convince you that you will not be one of the lucky ones to strike gold.
Noncotec
Are you inplicated in the wrongdoings?
The social structure of Jamaica might be a good theme to start “Reflections of The Blogs” that i have proposed.
The ‘system’ and ‘Who gets what when and where (and Why) are certainly relevant in a review of the Olint case.
Noncotec, HCM what you think?
Bwoy Jay, just the suggestion of the Start of “Reflections” has them all over the drives and all.
back to the antics again.
Give the people what they want
Code issues again AML. not clandistine this time. Expect drives to be fried again. don’t think they want “Reflections of the Blogs”
This is really funny we have bloggers who spend the entire day on the blog posting as different persons and basically talking to themselves.
Hope u have a good day today Floridian/Sirach/Harbourshark etc
Absolute garbage on the Gleaner – the Gleaner has had a number of the harshiest articles ever written on Olint….clearly this is meant to defame Mr Clarke.
thats the name of the game defame defame defame…while u urself pretend to try to help the persons in ur club u have defrauded.
You sound a little sarcastic that you find this funny. You sure?
Mr. clarke is a big boy. i don’t think he needs Wantto learnforex to defend him. In fact Mr. clarke stated very clearly to a large crowd in london that David Smith and Olint have never had any influence at all over the Gleaner. He has drawn his line. He does not need you to scribble around it. A man of Mr. Clarke’s stature must know that he can defend his statement in any6 arena.
The fact that correpondence between Gleaner journalists and Smith are on the World wide web for all too see and the fact that management at the higest level of the gleaner are close to ‘facilitator(S)’ does not bother Mr. Clarke.
So why does it bother you?
If as he has claimed his publication has been slandered of defamed he can initiate legal proceedings and sue.
Mr. Clarke also said in London that the monies sent to Olint from Jamaica National (JN) were on behalf of individual JN clients and not sanctioned by himself or the senior management of JN (Bunting has made similar public statements concerning DBG)
Wantmymoney these are experienced and formidable people. I am just a speck of dust to them in there minds. they are confident. Clarke is confident, Chris Barnes is confident they are not fluttering (well Clarke can flutter a bit if I’m around). And I invited him to sue me anytime (the best place to discuss Olint is in the courts) .
So Wantmymoney hold on to you bonnet. Relax. learn from the masters like Clarke how not to look bummy.
Wantmymoney
You know the vernacular “mi have yu ticket”
David Smith said he had the Gleaner locked. Yet i don’t here Wantmymoney accuse David Smith of defamation.
Should any libel or other suit come about concerning any publication then Smith could be invited to confirm or deny whether he made the statement or not under oath.
Surely Mr. clarke and others are in support of total TRANSPARENCY. That’s part of what an Order of Jamaica (OJ) should represent. Right or wrong?
Let sleeping dog lie? Mind you grab him by the ears.
do you all know that wayne smith is here in jamaica? i wonde for how long or is that he is afraid to travel to the states
Gleaner Blog got off to a slow start but it might “come to come” someday and one day be a blog that gets 20-30 hits a day on average.
I’ve heard even the ministry downloaded the IMF reports from these blogs.
And of course from the start BNS Toronto logged on they have never come off. Impressive.
long ago Wantmymoney I said to blof that would give everyone access to my olint account.
Of course the fact is Olint operatives took the site down and people who really want their money can not even see the account.
Of course I granted access to those who count long before I made the offer to the public on this blog.
In fact olint can blog my account if they want right here. be my guest.
So defraud you say Wantmymoney? What do the other bloggers think of you?
long ago Wantmymoney I said to blof that would give everyone access to my olint account.
Of course the fact is Olint operatives took the site down and people who really want their money can not even see the account.
Of course I granted access to those who count long before I made the offer to the public on this blog.
In fact olint can blog my account if they want right here. be my guest.
So defraud you say Wantmymoney? What do the other bloggers think of you?
Full disclosure and then defraud. hmmm “Wantaschooling”
Oh wantmymoney i forgot to mention. The exchange mentioned above was witnessed by more than 100 people.
Jay take wantmymoney out of the misery and embarrassment and reveal the identities of Floridian Sirach and Habourshark. Add the locations and the country proxy server info as well why not.
time for thread Jay. Wantmymoney and others are ready to see exactly how the connections are made in the fraud. Who knows who how long and from when and where and who is family and these things etc.
Saddle up Jay. Drop a clean thread.
the other two blogs don’t let me on so it has to be here.
What two? #4 Bruk down bus and ?
Floridian:
What should the title be for the new thread?
New and Improve – The Full Hundred? 🙂
I saw Mr. Pickersgill on the TV a few nights ago. Lord I am so ashamed!!!
What he said was true. This damm OLINT scheme is the JLP’s scandal and is analogous to the PNP’s scandal of Trafigura.
Most of us older party members keep advising that we find the money and pay it back to the OLINT liquidator and get rid of this nightmare once and for all. I will have to say the PNP did pay back the money when they were caught with their pants down. Now it is time for us to also conduct ourselves in a respectable manner.
Spoke with Eddie and he is so saddened by the course the party has taken.
These “young Turks” simply keep bringing shame to the party.
I wish Bruce would accept some advice from the older party members with years of political experience.
We still do not have a sound economic plan. What Eddie said re “Dollarizing” the economy makes the most sense. Alas Bruce refuses to listen.
We have a Governor of the BOJ who can hardly conjugate a verb and we send a team to Washington D.C. with no serious plan of action in terms of how do we plan to entice foreign investment and growth of our economy. We instead send a team with our two long hands stretched out begging a donation from the IMF.
Our time to make a difference is quickly evaporating. Most of the time spent by the party to date has been spent in heated arguments behind closed doors in relation to this damm OLINT curse.
Why Why Why would we allow our noble party to be taken down this road because of a few young Turks who have a knack for obtaining donations and who have good organizational skills. But is that worth losing the next General Election?
Is that worth the shame being labeled corrupt on the International scene?
Busta must be rolling in his grave. If I were in mine I would haunt a few persons some of whom have offices at Jamaica House.
Sadly Full Hundred can not come out until the courts.
But the meaning and effect of the unmasking of the Jamaican society and the ‘system’ can be explained by what’s on a lot of these blogs.
The “Unspoken truths” of a society that pretends to based on meritocracy…is it?
“The Corruptocracy” maybe possible title or “image is everything substance is nothing”
You tell me a possible title test.
“no way out” or maybe “Call smithy fast” hahahahahaaa
I think that the media debate is timely and important.I have reviewed the Creary E-mails on OlintJa andI believe that the crime of common law fraud has been committed.Probably
if moneylaundering ocurred, Smith is charged with that ,then
the Creary correspondence is an act in furtherance of the
moneylaundering.If Gleaner journalists accepted money or
Oliver Clarke accepted money then that is definitely criminal.
What did Clarke know and when did he know it?
@Mr Soze.
Very well said.
ter, Said: Have you traded the forex?
No. It should be evident from my posts. I do not buy the lottery either. Like many other things I have read about it fairly extensively and even opened a practice account to see what it was like. They still send me spam emails. And no, I did not invest in the UFO ponzi schemes either. A wise person studies and learns from the mistakes of others so as to avoid making the same errors.
Yes I gather that you hadn’t, I did not want to make acusation. That would be poor form.
I did enjoy the volleying back and forth though. Thank you for the stimulating conversation. This is my first time to blog a and I’m finding it can be very alurring.
I must say that about a year or 2 ago, I found this web sight and it seemed that everyone was busy insulting one another. Didnt really care to jump in. Much better now.
Civility is crucial if we are to be able to keep open minded and share ideas. Thanks again.
-Ter
@Floridian
We need an ‘expose’ to tell us that JA is a very corrupt society? Where have you been? We live on the same block as countries like Haiti and Nigeria dude. This only means that like investing in any scheme in Nigeria, one should have been double and triple vigilant so as not to fall for scams like those of Carlos and David.
floridian,
I LIKE the direction you heading in…..
@ theCynic
The kinds of revelations that can lead to discovery of the specific persons involved is very useful… like for e.g. leading to the discovery of who had money in Olint and therefore had an incentive not to act… such as we discovered earlier in this thread.
If we are just to be told that JA society is corrupt, I fail to see how useful that will be… most of us already know that. What is of great interest is the specific role played by individuals, not wild conspiracy theories.
Because somebody said something does not make it true. “Mouth make to say anything”. Somebody bought the PR.
Consider this, the same mouth that say he “had a paper locked” said he was “trading forex”? Credibility!?
The truth is up to this point, wantmymoney is generally could be right one one point. Some of the harshest articles on OLINT and UFOS have come from the Old Media House. In general the most sympathetic articles came from the other Young and Hip Media House.
The point is while some people have millions of US dollars to plunge into a questionable scheme, the operators of this blog have no money or time to deal with legal matters.
In worst case scenario we are absolutely not interested in being co-defendants in any suit filed by media owners or having this blog being shut down because of he actions of selfish misguided OLINT investors who could not see sweet talk and scam talk for what is was.
While the revelations have been useful, no doubt about, the basics remain true. The Red Flags of fraud are simple and pretty clear but GREED blinds.
To those who want to continue to spout your defamatory and libelous statements go to WordPress.com and sign up and create your own blog, but enough is enough.
Did anyone get a copy of the TCI-inquiry report? It is now gone.
Mail a copy to http://www.olintja.com
Cynic
You see who and who start backpedalling? I know you see. Some junior that serves the ‘master’ put pressure and threat on them.
Noncotec
“Where have you been? We live on the same block as countries like Haiti and Nigeria dude. This only means that like investing in any scheme in Nigeria, one should have been double and triple vigilant so as not to fall for scams like those of Carlos and David”
Cynic you don’t feel sorry for Noncotec? Jamaica like Nigeria?
Cynic you don’t want to be the one to tell Noncotec that this is the expert on jamaica bar none…..dude?
Cynic
“This only means….”
Noncotec get so bummy he wants to end “Reflections on The Blogs” before it has even begun.
Too much blocking Jay. Always as the temperature gets hot the blocking.
Master own you? Honest yes or no? You want me call him and speak to him for you?
Too much blocking Jay. Always as the temperature gets hot the blocking.
Master own you? Honest yes or no? You want me call him and speak to him for you?
I don’t even think Smithy has direct access like that. Could be wrong though who knows?
I know some of you guys are not bright enough to get this …
If you want to spout your potentially libelous conspiracy theories… all you have to do is point your browser to wordpress.com. Now create an account and name your blog. It is free. You can then blog your conspiracy theories to your hearts content. You will not have to complain about other bloggers. Now why, did you not think of that? You will not have worry what other bloggers are posting on the other blogs. Got it?
Financial services and international law – What a US$8b lawsuit means for Antigua
Published: Sunday | July 19, 2009
It must be rare, if not unique, for a lawsuit to threaten the viability of a whole nation. Yet bizarrely, that is what a US$8 billion case launched against Antigua threatens to do. Notwithstanding, it also raises important long-term questions about whether the national and regional Caribbean financial regulatory environment, to say nothing of the probity of individuals, can be shown to bear international legal scrutiny.
The story is complicated and revolves around what the Antigua government did or did not know about Texan businessman Sir Allen Stanford and his activities, and which individuals in successive governments in Antigua were complicit in reaching decisions that allegedly benefited his interests.
……Coming as all this case does, hard on the heels of the problems of CL Financial, the collapse of Ponzi schemes in Jamaica and elsewhere, the suspension by the British government of the Turks and Caicos administration, numerous legal cases against hedge funds registered in the Caribbean, and the tightening of Organisation for Economic Cooperation and development rules on the financial services operations of Caribbean offshore territories, it is not hard to imagine the absence of region-wide legislation, regulation and enforcement spurring regulators and legislators outside the region to demand an ever-more strict, timely and transparent Caribbean regulatory environment…..
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090719/business/business6.html
Your blog has lost its validity.It is now the blog for those who agree with Jay, Nocotec orJohn Doe.If you dont agree you are banned. The world is flat.The Spanish Inquisition’s way of doing things is still endorsed by a few poorly educated Jamaican
hypocrits.
Again I must say how disappointing it is to see the press covering Charles Ross a man who has been implicated to be involved in the OLINT scandal.
I find it amazing how he has suddenly acquired enough wealth to buy out all of the other partners at Sterling Asset Management.
I would not be surprised to find out David Smith and OLINT’s money was used in those financial transactions.
What I just can’t understand is why no coverage to date in the press about David Smith’s failed promise to pay us back in 9 months?
No Journalist seems to be interested in calling him to ask:
1) When do you plan to pay people back?
2) What is causing the delay?
3) What does his daily routine life involve? Is he working…
4) How does he provide for his family?
Last night my husband and I had to come to grips with the fact that we cannot afford to send our children to Prep school. I would love to know, where are David Smith’s children getting educated and who is paying for it?
How does he have the ability to bail himself from jail for the princely sum of US$ 3 million dollars but he can’t honor any of his debts.
As Jamaicans we are resilient but we lack the fortitude to stand up to a select few who bring shame upon us because of their corrupt behaviour.
It is time for us to stand together and demand that this government represent and protect ALL the Jamaican people.
I want to see:
1) The Press enquire from Wayne and David Smith of their intentions to pay
2) A police investigation into OLINT
3) A forum/committee of OLINT investors to be created where by we can stand together and demand justice for ALL. Individually we may make an impact but if we stand together as one group we would have a loud voice.
Can we use this blog to communicate to OLINT investors a time and meeting place for us to launch the ” OLINT RECOVERY COMMITTEE” ?
nocotec, on July 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pm Said:
I know some of you guys are not bright enough to get this …
If you want to spout your potentially libelous conspiracy theories
—
BEWARE. This blog falls under Jamaican laws. You have potential Jamaicans editors editing this blog from Jamaica.
The internet is a law-less place with no country ruling it(cyperspace) . It is ruled by brute-force, economics, and attacks(for people who break the unwritten rules).
You have edited my comments and replaced my words with other words. That makes this site liable.
@Northtech said ” Your blog has lost its validity.It is now the blog for those who agree with Jay, Nocotec orJohn Doe.If you dont agree you are banned..
Can you point out one blogger who has been banned from his site, its simply not true.
Look one blogger even calls himself ” Jay is a fraud” and still post on this site. 🙂
For those who were interested in the pdf books I mentioned by the market technician Robert Prechter email me @ equent2000@yahoo.com to get them.
Have a great week
The only thing we have edited is a) remove clearly libelous and defamatory statements. b) Replace names with initials or a single letter.
We have gone further and said if we have missed anything email us. There is nothing more we can do.
If we doing nothing we are damned and if we do we are damned. BTW it is not a Jamaican problem only actually there cases(precedence) in Florida US and London England over comments on blogs.
That is why we ask persons to desist and be responsible in their posting. If you are not prepared to present the evidence to back up you accusations don’t post.
Failing that follow the advise of Nocotec and myself. Go to http//www.wordpress.com and sign up and create a free blog and spout what every irresponsible, libelous and dafamotory statements you want there.
And to the ‘new” poster, we have not blocked anybody not a soul
@Lisa
1. You can use this blog to communicate with other OLINT investors.
2. What you and other OLINT investors need to be doing is talking to the OLINT TCI Liquidator. You notice the title of this thread/post
3. Don’t you get it? OLINT TCI is in COMPULSORY LIQUIDATION. Find the time to ask your friends in the legal and financial fields to explain that. A search using Google could also help..
4. Again please be careful with the name calling and related comments.
CR might have had dealings with DS and OLINT as of this time he has NOT be criminally implicated in anything, If you have evidence, why don’t you hand it over to the the Jamaica and TCI police?
It could be argued that since you had dealings with DS and OLINT and probably told a friend or two about OLINT you are also “implicated”?
While we might question his dealings with DS and OLINT until there is evidence, he might be “morally” implicated but certainly not “criminally” implicated.
Finally there is no need to post the same thing in two different threads.
Someone asked and it is here, new thread “Reflections, one year later”
https://investforlife.wordpress.com/2009/07/19/relections-one-year-later/
@Lisa
As a recovering Olint investor it is a good time to also devote some time to rehabilitate some of your thinking processes. When you fall for scams it is often caused by a breakdown in logical reasoning. The old proverb, ” you cannot teach an old dog new tricks”, is not true. It is harder to teach an old new tricks but not impossible.
Many Olint investors need to rehabilitate themselves and develop new ways to reason. On the blogs, I constantly see UFO investors displaying the same reasoning pattern that caused them to invest… conspiracy theories, wild accusations, blatantly incorrect statements… all of this, with no basis in fact or logic. This is what caused Olint and the other UFOs to flourish, a willingness to believe unsupported claims which were not supported by fact or logic.
Let me tell you a secret about myself :-). People that take a position opposite to mine in an argument find themselves wrong with amazing regularity, If you followed the blogs from the beginning, you would see this demonstrated over and over again. What is my secret? It is a life lesson. Venture only into areas in which you acquired substantial knowledge or expertise.
Acquire the required knowledge or expertise or stay the hell out. Life is full of wolves ready to eat you alive and like real wolves seeking out the stragglers in a chase, they prey on the weak and unskilled. I would not be on a cardiologists blogs arguing heart surgery. I would defer to them because I know most all of them would know more than I do and better yet, I would not attempt heart surgery.
By the way a few clarifications for you:
1. Bail. In most democratic countries, generally bail most be offered to an accused unless the accused is a threat to flee or is a danger to society. The amount of bond must also be set at an amount that is not unreasonably prohibitive to the accused, else it is same as not offering bail.
The amount of bond is not generally required to be posted in cash. The accused or someone acting on his behalf can use assets such as real estate which has value greater than the bond amount. If the accused jumps bail, the asset is forfeited… if not it is released.
In some countries licensed bail bondsmen can be used. These guys offer the equivalent of an insurance policy. The accused or friends or family of the accused pays the bondsman a portion, say 10 % of the bond and may also pledge assets. They ‘buy’ the bond policy for that amount. The bail bondsman then agrees to insure, that is issue a bond to the court. If the accused jumps bail the bondsman pays the court, then seizes the pledged assets, while he also goes looking for the accused. If he brings him back, he may also get back part or all of the bond.
In other words, DS does not need to have the $ in cash to make bail.
2. At this point unless investors believe they can locate and seize assets from DS and Olint that the liquidator will not… there is no reason to sue DS or Olint… And if they know of such assets it would be best to communicate such to the liquidator.
The only reason to sue is if you believe you can prevail against a 3rd party that was involved and the liquidator is not going after them.
3. It is probably unlikely that criminal charges will be filed in JA while the case in TCI is pending or if he is convicted. They would have to wait until after his trial to get him back to JA and if convicted, after he serves his sentence. With the inefficiencies in the JA system, even if he is acquitted, unless he returned to JA there is very little likelihood of him being charged and even if he returned he might still not be charged… unless they believed they had evidence TCI did not… and even then 🙂
Lisa wrote:
Last night my husband and I had to come to grips with the fact that we cannot afford to send our children to Prep school. I would love to know, where are David Smith’s children getting educated and who is paying for it?
LISA DEAR:
From all indications, you and I have been paying all the Smiths’ expenses. It appears that this guy hasn’t worked since at least 2006.
So whatever he and his extended family are spending appears to be Olint’s funds. I am told that his brother is in Jamaica enjoying the spoils.
DAvid Smith and his family are probably having lobster and steak for dinner every evening even now.
Tafari,
You are so right. The Smith family have no remorse and in fact dear us to ask for our money.
The brother Wayne does not work and travels up and down Barbican. I wish we could all live like them.
Down to business:-
1) Any word on where Smith has assets
2) Can we in Jamaica collectively put OLINT into receivership?
3) Any word on Martinez? When was he last seen in Jamaica?
4) If Smith has money with Sterling, etc. how can investors in Jamaica get our hands on that $$ ?
Lisa: 2) Can we in Jamaica collectively put OLINT into receivership?
Yes. Refer to how Seaga had C+ placed into forced liquidation. Essentially creditors (persons or companies owed money by Olint) can file a suit and argue they are owed money, Olint is insolvent and the court should order it liquidated and appoint a liquidator.
Not sure which liquidator may take the job since DS said he moved the money into Olint TCI and that company is being liquidated in TCI but the above is more or less the process.
The answer to 1 and 4 would/should be solved by the liquidator.
So in essence, there is no money in JA to put into recievership? So there will never be any liquidation?
2. At this point unless investors believe they can locate and seize assets from DS and Olint that the liquidator will not… there is no reason to sue DS or Olint… And if they know of such assets it would be best to communicate such to the liquidator.
The only reason to sue is if you believe you can prevail against a 3rd party that was involved and the liquidator is not going after them
Let me tell you a secret about myself . People that take a position opposite to mine in an argument find themselves wrong with amazing regularity, If you followed the blogs from the beginning, you would see this demonstrated over and over again. What is my secret? It is a life lesson. Venture only into areas in which you acquired substantial knowledge or expertise.
Yes Nocotec. You can’t think past just “recovery of money.”
So even experise and objectivity can be shaped by bias.
@Floridian
So are you saying that you did not invest in Olint because you wanted to gain large amounts of money very quickly? I do not believe anyone can be convinced of that.
But now monetary considerations no longer matter? What is the point of a lawsuit against Olint and company? Is it not to take back whatever money they illegally got?
Investing in Olint was an irrational decision. Filing lawsuits without considering the financial implications is also irrational.
But the first set of suits were filed in Jamaica Nonco?
Ask Les Green about them he keep a close watch. After all that’s what he’s there for. Right?
Committng the crime without considering the time is also irrational.
Can we agree on that one Nonco?