investforlife
jay
nocotecNationwide news is reporting that David Smith led, Olint is now the subject of a USA Federal Money Laudering investigation. The report quotes a United States Department of Justice(DOJ) letter dated July 11, 2008 that says that the federal authorities believe that the accounts contain property involving money laundering transactions, a violation on USA money laundering laws. The letter says given the nature of the property in question, the situation requires that the bank accounts be frozen immediately to prevent the dissipation of the funds.
According to the report, the US Federal Authorities has frozen the all accounts in the USA of
- OLINT,
- TCI FX Trading,
- Gareth Harris,
- May Daisy,
- Ingrid Loiten,
It now appears that the Gleaner report of July 16, 2008, for all its inaccuracies, was unto to something but had not quite gotten it right.
- Jun 30, 2008 – NFA complaint against I-Trade FX
- July 11, 2008 – USA DOJ Letter.
- July 13, 2008 – Famous David Smith Email Sent
- July 14, 2008 – Jamaica Offices, closed Bomb threats cited
- July 14, 2008 – TCI Police Raid, OLINT & David Smith Assets Frozen,
- July 16, 2008 – Famous Letter Denied
- July 18, 2008 – Letter to Club members – pointing to accounting errors(similar to famous email)
l-Trade began filing SARs for suspicious activity noted in customer accounts. However, the activity reported in those SARs paled in comparison to the suspicious activity that went unreported relative to the Olint and TCI accounts and the Harris and Loiten accounts. For example. l-Trade filed a SAR for a customer who deposited $10,000 in an account and withdrew the funds several months later without ever trading. Similarly, l-Trade filed SARs for two other customers who each deposited $5,000 and then withdrew the funds a month or two later without conducting any trading. The activity reported in these SARs was far less suspicious than the suspicious activity which went unreported in the Olint, TCl, Hanis and Loiten accounts
- AML allegations (noon)
- AML allegations (evening report)
- More the AML
- FXCM interview and more
Source: Nationwide News Network
Related:
- Martinez’s (I-Trade) in Trouble with NFA – Ingrid Loiten, David Smith named
- F1 Investments sues May Daisy, I-Trade et al
Filed under: Olint | Tagged: David Smith, Ingrid Loiten, May Daisy, News, Olint |
Real Investments For Life 
hurry up with the details will ya!!
onlint may have been more than justa straight up ponzi scheme. an argument i’ve heard on several prior occasions. it may be that he was running a sophisticated hybrid of laundering, ponzi sprinkled with a little trading, done in part, on his DS’ own admission by mti.
the plot thickens.
no hope for seeing the money now.
GOOD!
I hope DS feelin the heat b/c we all have for the last 7 months
It just keeps getting worse and the sad part is that the worst is yet to come
I told you all is TWO CON MEN not one….One man alone could not did not start this…They were working with one another. If only 1 go down in flames then thats not fair.
Donkey sey the world nuh level!
Where in the clip is itradefx mentioned? I didn’t haer it.
Everybody who was doing Illegal activity and invested that moeny in OLINT JUST GOT EXPOSED!!!
Nuff a dem drugs man a hide now!!
Would be good if they could post that document that they reporter mentioned, i couldn’t find anything on the department of justice website.
“I told you all is TWO CON MEN not one….One man alone could not did not start this…They were working with one another. If only 1 go down in flames then thats not fair.”
Did JM beat you up in the back alley and take your money or something? I’ve never seen someone jump to conclusions so quickly about one person.
If they took your money, fine, that I can understand. But you seem to have some irrational hatred that seems to drive you on this one issue more than anything.
Well all who in Olint ,May Daisy and all off shore accounts need to be investigated for tax evasion
May Daisy etc too, lol the list getting longer each time its been retold by here LOL
Sinta,
Mi throw mi corn but mi neva call nuh fowl!
LOL!!!!
The FBI should investigate DBG AND NCB also Add them to the list
Sledge,
on what gorunds should those investigations commence?
I want to know what ‘A Day in the life of David Smith’ is like. Dem don’t have no paparazzi can follow him around?
The Gov. of Jamaica and certain Ministers of Gov.should be added to this list.
Jon
Investigate DBG AND NCB for for money laundering. Add them to the list
All hell will break loose
FOR REAL !! EXPOSE ALL THE PERSONS THAT FUELED THIS SCAM. ALL WHO AIDED AND ABETTED !! ALL WHO BENEFITTED TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE POOR. TODAYS’ GOVT. IS ALSO APART OF THIS SCAM.
I hope all you USA residents have your taxes in order. Was Olint doing even basic know your customer due diligence… any pharmacist could have been putting in money…
By the way, you big mouth people who have been attacking me and the “detractors” for months… are your houses in order?…
The initial investigation of money laundering is clearly fueled by the NFA investigation of I-Trade… it is not initially aimed at individual investors. But at the principals of I-trade and the ponzi schemes… the NFA complaint did strongly imply that these guys may have been trying to launder money for themselves.
BTW, is not only ‘today’s Govt” have their hand in it. LOL
I wonder what will be the fate of DS and the FX Thief….I mean Chief.
HEDGE FUND ADVISORS SENTENCED IN $194 MILLION HEDGE FUND COLLAPSE
R. Alexander Acosta, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, Jonathan I. Solomon, Special Agent in Charge, Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Miami Division, and Don B. Saxon, Commissioner, Florida Department of Financial Regulation, announced that defendants Jung Bae Kim, a/k/a John B. Kim, formerly of Jupiter, Florida, and his brother, Yung Bae Kim, were both sentenced today for their separate roles in operating a hedge fund under the name of the KL Group LLC, in Florida and California. John Kim was sentenced to 220 months in prison, followed by three years of supervised release. Yung Kim was sentenced to 75 months in prison, followed by three years of supervised release. Both defendants were ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $78,525,567.34 through the court-appointed receiver.
Corporate defendants KL Group LLC, Shoreland Trading LLC, and KL Triangulum Management LLC wera also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $78,525,567.34 through the court-appointed receiver. The receiver announced in open court that approximately $6,500,000 has been recovered to date for restitution to the victims.
Defendants John Kim and Yung Kim were indicted in December 2006 in connection with a massive investment fraud involving various hedge funds under the umbrella of the KL Group, LLC, initially located in California and later in Palm Beach County. John Kim previously pled guilty to one count of wire fraud, and Yung Kim pled guilty to one count of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Three hedge fund advisor companies owned and controlled by the individual defendants also pled guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud. The corporate defendants were KL Group, LLC, KL Florida, LLC and KL Triangulum Management, LLC. The corporations were placed on probation, and a court appointed receiver continues to marshal assets for partial restitution to the defrauded investors.
According to documents and statements made in Court, the defendants obtained approximately $195 million from investors between 2000 and 2005. During his plea, John Kim acknowledged lying to investors to induce them to invest and re-invest in the Hedge Funds. For example, the defendants lied to investors about the financial success of particular funds, stating that the funds were profitable, when in fact none were. These misrepresentations were made orally, on-line at a KL website, and through false account statements sent to investors by mail and email. In addition, the defendants also used counterfeit clearing firm statements to entice victims to invest and re-invest their money.
More specifically, in February, 2005, fictitious stock trading sheets were created that purported to show a one-day profit of $22 million in a stock known as RIMM, the company that manufacturers the “Blackberry” device. The RIMM trade, however, never took place, and the fictitious stock trading sheets were used to fool investors concerning the profitability of trades being conducted by the KL Hedge Funds.
Mr. Acosta commended the investigative efforts of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the State of Florida’s Office of Financial Regulation. The case is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Stephen Carlton and Edward Nucci.
“the NFA complaint did strongly imply that these guys may have been trying to launder money for themselves.”
It did? Then (if that’s the theory), why wasn’t J and JM cited? They’re both NFA registered as well, yet they didn’t get hit with the complaint. It was aimed at the company and the Compliance “officer” at the time, IM.
It’s possible that money laundering could be involved, but we’re jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a radio report (and I haven’t even seen the document yet).
Sinta,
I wonder why you so cncerned about the fate of itrade and MTI ?
sinta…
based on last week’s events …”if it nu go so it near so”
Ha Ha, this is amazing how the USA is now involved. Man, Im gonna take a different stance on this… USA involved in Jamaican affairs is not acceptable and every Jamaican needs to stand up to this. Look, most banks here in America launder drug money, that aint no secret. Fed law doesnt require the banks here to disclose to monies that they have generated… Banks at their own liberty investigate transactions and then let the Feds know if they have received something suspicous. This amazing developments. DS is only the fall guy to controlling the people of Jamaican. Its funny how most of you people actually want the Feds to regulate unregulated Investment companies. idiots, when you request this you just ruin it for everyone. Good job whistleblowers….
I can never play those audio clips – what do I need on my computer to play it at a normal speed? Thanks.
It is obvious DS was the fall guy. when them lef him by himself the only thing that coulda do was drink and gamble.
It probably will only be him that tek the fall.
“I wonder why you so cncerned about the fate of itrade and MTI”
I’ve never had any concerns about MTI. As I said before, my friend trades with itrade (read the other thread) as well as had money with WW and Olint. As the saying goes, “a fool and his money are soon parted” – that said, the problem is, this is just rumor mongering with people looking for someone to blame. If we have facts, lay them on the table. Otherwise, we’re just spinning the same information over and over.
I’m all for punishing people for something they did, but there seem to be some nasty agendas on this site from people who have no idea what the NFA does or what complaints are or the difference between money laundering (definitely a concern) and AML procedure (which is what the complaint says).
Then we have people like miachica who seems to pop up on here mostly just to throw JM’s name around, and he’s not even under investigation by the NFA… IM definitely is for AML procedure, but I haven’t seen anyone post actual money laundering charges against IM. Again, that could change, but there’s a difference between fact and opinion.
I understand, people want to find people to blame, and if there is a charge, I’ll help carry the torches, but this is just getting silly.
This means there are assets in the US to be frozen – and the plot thickens.
If money laundering was the source of the excess returns (and I think it was), then the drug kingpins will not distribute another penny if they are exposed. What this means is that you are going to find that there are no significant clean assets left to distribute to investors.
This was always the risk to this alternative scheme and is the reason that you have David Smith praying that money will be distributed. The fact of the matter is that he doesn’t have control anymore. He fully would like to make the distribution, but the payment can never be made while the world watches.
miachica….
DS aint no fall guy….yes he has fallen from grace but he did not take the fall for anybody….he contributed to his own demise…..
“This means there are assets in the US to be frozen – and the plot thickens.”
That is truth, and that is interesting. I wonder where? itrade? fxcm? oanda? (actually, i think oanda is in canada)
I’ll leave people to beat the drum some more, but i caution people to look at facts and not run a witch hunt. i reserve the right to change my mind though when i actually see the document that was suppossedly quoted.
Sinta,
Why do you only “pop up” when people are talking about itrade. That is too much of a coincidence lol!
… new soundtrack (munch, munch, munch) … to cornel campbell’s classic: ‘Boxing’ … (ahhmm … clear t’roat)
“… it’s easy to remember … but so hard to forget … that day you walked out of our lives, Davey …
… we thought you’d be in paradise … by the way you mek so much noise … and follow all your silly advice, Davey …
… (but) now they’re gonna be Taxing us over here … and Taxing us over there … Taxing us all over the place, Davey …”
… (munch, munch, munch) … bwoy, Davey look like yuh ah guh leave nuff mon expose …
Well I think we now know what happen to the $200M, DS knew the US was on to him and the funds were delayed pending a priliminary invetigation. It look like the Brokers were doing the due dilligence and the findings cause them to report it to the FEDS, infact it looks like when they said due diligence was over tie in to the dates all these things start to happen including TCI.
“Why do you only “pop up” when people are talking about itrade. That is too much of a coincidence lol!”
Actually, I’ve posted on other threads too, but as I keep mentioning … “my friend trades with itrade”, so you’re right, its not a coincidence.
On the flipside, why do you mostly post just to badmouth JM? Did he take money from you? Seems like “too much of a coincidence lol!”
anyways, I’ll hang out here and read, but i guess i’m distracting people too much off the main point.
I have factual knowledge that at least one principal of a feeder account of Olint is under FBI investigation. When the vice is tightened on that individual, the beans will all be spilt. Patience is the only virtue when dealing with thieves like olint and the other (thieves) feeder account principlas. Do you think they do not know what the premise and what activities Olint is involved in?
Sinta,
I foreign mi deh..u neva know lol..How many months before everything lock down lol.
Stop giving yourself away..if I dont have relationships with those people then I dont care what people on a blog say!
xyled
I did some think and check and this is what I found so far:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/business/html/20070104t200000-0500_117455_obs_olint_will_fail_if_it_remains_unlicensed___wynter.asp
I did some think and check and this is what I found:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/business/html/20070104t200000-0500_117455_obs_olint_will_fail_if_it_remains_unlicensed___wynter.asp
And this:
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070131/lead/lead5.html
Read down to the part about Audley Shaw and the FSC. If FSC was so restrained, why would the opposition spokesman at the time have anything to say
And this too:
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20071130/business/business7.html
And also this one:
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070131/cleisure/cleisure1.html
Read paragraph 6.
This is the last one.
Click to access News%20release%20Cash%20Plus.pdf
DS made us some good money. It was a good ride.
Me and plenty ppl benefited . Principle and nuff interest eaten and digested from Olint. God bless he and his family. And like everyone else mi still want mi money, I had plans to buy another home 🙂 hehehe
I have to run. One last point. Roper is an excellent man for the job. Why is he only acting?
texting,
dont talk too early. you could find yourself required to forfeit some of your excess interest. if ds is found to have been running a straight up ponzi, then your lavish lifestyle would have come on te backs of many unfortunate persons who followed you into the sacm.
be carefull you could be liable to make restitution
jon,
If people are told their money is in forex – how do they get penalized if it is a ponzi?
jon you sound jealous.
Dont blame me for taking out and using the money to benefit my life. You should have done the same bitta man
I dont think that is possible for someone to be penalized for taking gains from what he thought was a legitimate forex club which turns out to be a ponzi….its impossible to take back the man supermarket food he bought..his paying off his loans. his childrens school fee ect. These are all intangible benefits, how is it possible to force someone to give that back…lol….EVEN if he bought material gains, how can you prove he used olint money to buy it ect….i really think you should let go of that idea jon
Money laundering
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Money laundering is the practice of engaging in financial transactions in order to conceal the identity, source, and/or destination of money, and is a main operation of the underground economy.
In the past, the term “money laundering” was applied only to financial transactions related to organized crime. Today its definition is often expanded by government regulators (such as the United States Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) to encompass any financial transaction which generates an asset or a value as the result of an illegal act, which may involve actions such as tax evasion or false accounting. As a result, the illegal activity of money laundering is now recognized as potentially practiced by individuals, small and large businesses, corrupt officials, members of organized crime (such as drug dealers or the Mafia), and even corrupt states, through a complex network of shell companies and trusts based in offshore tax havens. A few examples of money laundering are smurfing or kiting.
The increasing complexity of financial crime, the increasing recognized value of so-called “financial intelligence” (FININT) in combating transnational crime and terrorism, and the speculated impact of capital extracted from the legitimate economy has led to an increased prominence of money laundering in political, economic, and legal debate.
Something I said yesterday (FYI):
DaveSin, on July 20th, 2008 at 2:29 pm Said:
John Doe:
I think you have to be careful about any US role in this whole Olint debacle. The TCI case might (speculation) have a US angle. TCI police say that the investigation was triggered by “internal” TCI request. Its not clear to me why the TCI police cannot come out and say that X (without naming names) issued a fraud accusation.
Its frightened to think that internal TCI “claim(s)” triggered the raid. You thoughts?
Texting:
How do you feel for the thousands that might not get any benefits from Olint? Do you feel that the funds you received came from them (Ponzi approach)?
texting,
fyi, i am an olint “investor”…jealous of you? i dont know you from the paint on the wall, so i hardly think so.
i also have had a pleasant experience up until now. life trasformed. i’ve written on that on this blog.
i swallowed the bait, hook line and sinker; david is a christian, the best fx trader in the world, the conspiracy against him, on and on.
but his actions now being exposed paint a vivid pic to the contrary. my voice is being added to the mob shouting ‘we want justice’. i however know the limitations of that expected justice. will my balance ever materialise in the form of a check made out to me? i think not. but ds must notbe allowed to bamboozle people any further. enough lying. the truth needs to be heard, whatever the consequences.
i was only pulling legs on th penalty suggestion, geez donbe so angst as iff there is a 2by4 in ya!
look with all these accounts being frozen does that mean money is in them to pay depositors back
DaveSin
Others and myself went into olint with the notion that he was an excellent trader.
I still believe he has good potentials, and that martinez fellow has a lot to do with his demise. There are hedge funds out there that nuff ppl invest in knowing very well there are high risk with great returns –this is no different The stocks we buy today in these licensed investment bank is also a risk – where the early bird catches the worm. So to answer your question – I don’t believe my gains are from them (ponzi approach). But like the others I do want the rest of my money 🙂
jon – we all look for a time when our sense of humour returns (speaking for myself anyway) – a little difficult for that right now given the circumstances.
mmmmm…food for thought ….does TCI have any anti-extradition laws????
Jon – yeah, you are a bitta man. And that 2×4 – slap yuh headside wid it for being a greedy man
Texting,
you are having a laugh there…haha…i’m bitta because i know you made sooo much money from ds and i didn’t..believe that if it satisfies you infantile urges you wanker!
cant we all just get along:)
We are assuming here that Olint was laundering money.
Not because the FBI is investigating Olint means that they laundered money. Following the NFA report, this should have been expected.
Considering the date of the letter, monies could have been witheld by Oanda, since if you are under ML investigations, your bank/ broker cannot inform you, it would be a violation, and they could be charged for it.
I remember when DS was speaking to Cliff Hughes, he said that each time the broker requested something of him, and was provided with same, they kept asking for something else, over and over.
I wondered at the time, if this was just a stalling mechanism being done by the Feds.
Realistically Olint could not have been a Money Laundering operation, not with the volumes that he handled, the interest that he paid, and his exposure and profile.
It would be like he was advertising himself to the Feds
It is highly likely that the US alphabet offices in Jamaica have aleady looked into his operations in the past to see if there was any Money Laundering occuring, especially since he started at the time that all the big drug dons were arrested.
Remember in order to be charged with ML, David would have had to “knowlingly” take money that is tainted.
Let us remember that Olint only collected bank drafts, so these funds have already been cleared fit and proper by the respective banking system.
This news I think should be viewed as good news, since it MIGHT mean that there are funds about somewhere.
If there are large amounts of funds availble, ppl should be prepared to accept payments of cents on the dollar, somtime down the road.
David Smith with all the baggage that he is carrying, will not be allowed on any other trading platfom. His trading days are over, and so is the promise of 9months.
Also the FBI cannot freeze these assetts indefinately, without charging him,so soon he will have lawyers getting them released.
Let us see if there are any funds left after this.
Can anyone here tell me who is Gareth Harris?
needy;
IF there is a payout down the line do you think it will be cents on the dollar of monies invested or the total (principal + interest)?
Needy
“Remember in order to be charged with ML, David would have had to “knowlingly” take money that is tainted.”
A bit simpistic don’t you think? Even though he is not licence I still think he will be judged on whether he took reasonable steps to avoid ML. Also whether he reported anything suspicious by his invests.
Finally we cannot assume that because he took wire/ draft from the general public he never had sweetheart deals with a few high net worth individual.
Just another perspective.
Remember the famous statement – that DS is willing to trade for Jamaica, if asked to do so. THIS mess, could have been a whole lot worse.
Needy:
I think there is a common misconception that money laundering is somehow always related to “drug” trafficking. Do you know that shifting funds around from a Ponzi Scheme is considered money laundering? The same is true of funds from ANY illicit enterprise, including, but not limited to funds from Medicare/Medicaid fraud, investment fraud, bank robbery, stolen art work, etc., etc….essentially, any concealment of funds from any illicit means fall under the money laundering heading. Your thoughts?
Robin Irie
if he had sweetheart deal with high net worth individuals where he laundered funds, it would have had to be cash that they gave him which would then have had to be laundered through the banks. They then would have reported the “suspicious transactions”
You cant unkowingly launder money, that is why it is such a difficult crime to prosecute, cause they have to prove knowledge.
You can fail to report threshold transaction,
but that does not mean that the money was illegally obtained. They could not have charged you for that.
Dreamdashway – that would be specualtion
yuh hear the balance, at FXCM a little over 3 million
That is where the $200m figure must have come from!!
only 3 mil. wi nah get nuttn then its over!
Jon
Talk about infantile urges …..your blogs are insane ranting and raving. Guess there is no where else to express your pain. Before nobody talk about how much they had in Olint. Now everybody had nuff . Thank your blessings for what gains you made. You shouldnt have bitten off more than you can chew . Calm down bitta man. There is always another 10% round the corner …ask around 🙂
This not pretty….not prety at all…..not pretty oui.
Cligg Hughes seems to know much, much more than he is letting on.
well maybe there might be more at Oanda. Just hope
well….its 99.9% over…..need to hear oanda balance now to see if its 100% over
John Doe,
it seems that i was right about CH saying this morning that he had big news this evening. I always tell unnu that i do not speak about things that i do not know.
need to also know the balance in TCI
I am always suspicious of hearing of ML investigations.
This means that they are looking for ML.
If they had anything as yet, David would have been arrested already, that is how the Feds operate.
needy – If you weren’t posting same time as CH is talking, I would think you were CH himself 🙂
Boss – you well informed ! Can’t wait for your next “buss”
The most we can hope for is that there is money left in Oanda. DS can never trade again so forget bout that 9 months crap.
who is Gareth Harris?
Needy:
TCI, Caymans Islands and US Virgin Islands, Belize, St. Kitts, Grenada, et. al., are the money laundering capitals of the world!!!
BTW, the money (cash) from the high net worth individuals could be used as casino/go-go club money 🙂
No one seems to know who this guy is. Maybe he is not Jamaican, but a US crook!!
This still does not explain what was happening from January to what – July 11th or whatever the date they are quoting the letter from the Feds to FXCM?
ok Dreamdashway,
Although i do not think that there is any large amount of funds left, I am going to be devils advocate, and show you a possible scenrio.
This is speculation and only meant to give you and others HOPE.
Cliff Hughes said that Olint was made aware of this freeze last Friday.
After the NFA report, David should have been expecting something like this investigation happening. (it would be common sense)
Maybe he moved the bulk of the funds from the FXCM platform in the past few weeks to a bank account.
These funds of course would have been traced by the FBI and also frozen as well
I am happy that this letter has been released which is confirming my comments on this blog like a week ago. I will state my position again: No ‘due diligence’ was occuring at any point in time, DS IS JUST A LIAR. DS was red flagged by the FEDs earlier last year after he transferred $600 million to two individuals. Alongside this was the NFA investigation in i-Trade FX since DS was the principal and co-founder of i-trade FX. DS was advised by his lawyers not to make any new wire transfers. But as we all know by now,DS tried to wire a large sum of $$$, I am not so sure if it was 250mill.
What everyone needs to understand is that in a post 9/11 US, no broker,bank or any other financial insitution will allow any investor to access their money if there transactions are deemed “red flags”
The plot will thicken though because we do not know if DS is linked to Loiten and Harris. Also, isn’t is strange that they only frozen 2 accounts totalling 3.5 million?.
WHERE IS THE REST OF THE MONEY? WE WILL FIND OUT-THE PLOT THICKENS!
Needy, I understand he runs Keen Exchange.
Needy
Money laundering does not just refer to drug money. (I just complemented my annual exam covering money laundering which is a requirement as a Stockbroker in Canada). If DS was putting money in FX A/C and just taking it out with no intention or sign of trading it would be considered suspicious. If he was identifying himself and his wife as owners of the funds with no explanation of the source and not providing banking info like he did in JA it WOULD also trigger an investigation.
In my opinion DS was not trading (a least not in the active way he gave the impression he was) if he was he would find that he would lose many times and have a difficulty makings his monthly payment to club members. I think he was just spinning money around to keep his scheme going. I think he possibly had some initial luck trading when he got one of those span email inviting the world to become an FX trader and fooled himself into thinking he could build a business model around this idea. The whole process with the hype from the unsophisticated investors in Jamaica just got ahead of him. Rest assured he is not alone it is commonplace to find these Ponzi schemes around black evangelical churches in North America selling a pie in the sky route to financial success. (I hope I do not offend any evangelical, but someone should do a study around this phenomenon)
ramacan,
I heard that too!
Conscientious_Achievement
are the 2 U$600mill transfers, factually or suss?
If these transfers were actually done, and they were illegall. David would be in an American jail tonight, and not in his TCI mansion.
trust me.
u had to be referred and the interest rate per month was appox 20%.
Banker
Yes Banker it would be suspicious but it would not mean that the funds were illegally gained.
I agree with the misrepresentation of funds, re himself and his wife, – that is exactly the reason why May Daisy was charged in Africa.
I KNOW that david did not start out as a Ponzi. He had this idea of trading for himself and few friends. I do not Know when or how it got so large.
This monster was never what he envisioned, it was conceptualised after he lost his job at JMMB.
I (think) that it grew too large, and then he started to believe the hype. The profiling started and the rest is history.
As I have often said here, the lesson that I have learnt is that a man who is used to thousands cannot handle billions. It is the same thing that happened to Mike Tyson, MC Hammer et al.
The only difference is that it is others ppl money that DS has lost.
Just got this in my email. Anyone fancy making some money?
FROM THE DESK OF MR.PAUL ZULU.
Attention: Sir/Madam,
I am MR.PAUL ZULU the Director in charge of auditing and accounting section of a prime bank in Ouagadougou Burkina-Faso with due respect and regard. I have decided to contact you on a business transaction that will be very beneficial to both of us at the end of the transaction.
During our investigation and auditing in this bank, my department came across a very huge sum of money belonging to a deceased person Mr. Morris Thompson from America who is an oil merchant Agent here in ouagadougou burkina faso, a well known Philanthropist before his death in a plane crash on January 31, 2000. both wife Thelma Thompson and daughter Sheryl Thompson. Please for more details concerning him and how he died, you can visit this website: http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/02/01/alaska.airlines.list
The said amount was U.S $15.5M (Fifteen million five hundred United States dollars). As it may interest you to know, I got your impressive information through from a human resource profile database in the chamber here in Ouagadougou Burkina-Faso. Meanwhile all the whole arrangement to put claim over this fund as the bona fide next of kin to the deceased, to get the required approval and transfer this money to a foreign account has been put in place and directives, and needed information will be relayed to you as soon as you indicate your interest and willingness to assist me and also benefit your self to this great business opportunity.
In fact I could have done this deal alone but because of my position in this country as a civil servant (A Banker), we are not allowed to operate a foreign account and would eventually raise an eye brow on my side during the time of transfer because I work in this bank. This is the actual reason why it will require a second party or fellow who will forward claims as the next of kin with affidavit of trust of oath to the Bank and also present a foreign account where he will need the money to be re-transferred into on his request as it may be after due verification and clarification by the correspondent branch of the bank where the whole money will be remitted from to your own designation bank account.
I will not fail to inform you that this transaction is 100% risk free. On smooth conclusion of this transaction, you will be entitled to 35% of the total sum as gratification, while 50% will be for me and 15% map out for any expenses. Please, you have been advised to keep “top secret” as I am still in service and intend to retire from service after we conclude this deal. I will be monitoring the whole situation here in this bank until you confirm the money in your account and ask me to come down to your country for subsequent sharing of the fund according to percentages previously indicated and further investment, either in your country or any country you advice us to invest in. All other necessary vital information will be sent to you when I hear from you.
Thank you for your understanding as await your urgent response to enable me give you more details.
Remain bless,
Mr Paul Zulu.
POST SCRITUM:
You have to keep everything secret as to enable the transfer to move very smoothly in to the account you will prove to the bank.If however, you are not disposed to assist,kindly delete/destroy this email in view of the confidentiality of the proposed transaction and interest of personalities involved.
Cliff is talking about the situation with Olint again now.
The current situation doesn’t surprise me.
I’ve been saying that the money laundering thing is a very serious business and these clubs will attract that kind of attention.
It was a Ponzi at least from February 2006 when the FSC was investigating them and then, in March, kicked them out of Jamaica.
It was also a laundry from at least that time.
I (think) that it became a Ponzi when CP started.
DS started to lie about interest rates to compete wit CP
now how can you be setting rates to compete in an FX trading operation.
Cliff is going to air the interview with the compliance guy from FXCM shortly.
Trust me on this one people.
dont convict them of ML as yet.
let the investigation finish first.
I saw the discussion about whether gains can be recovered by a receiver from investors. Have absolutely no doubt about it. The receiver or liquidator, and there will be at least one before the dust settles, will certainly go after people who have made gains. He or she would be derelict if he didn’t. It’s no use arguing about it and it’s not about bad mind or “bitta”. It’s just how it is.
The discussion on this site is very interesting and I enjoy all the different opinions. I think this is how the truth emerges. But on some things we need to understand how it works in practice. I’ve given my two cents worth. Anyone know how liquidators and receivers work?
As a side note NCB was just protecting itself when they closed his account. I am sure they did not care about the court order as long as they attempted to close the account.
Instead of criticizing NCB the trick is for club members to sue NCB arguing that club members considered OLINT and DS to be fit and proper because they maintained an account at the bank. The Bank should have been suspicious of the account and closed it before.
NCB of course cannot disclose their client’s info but if they had moved earlier to close the A/C then club members might have become more suspicious of DS. Of course you would need a sympathetic judge or judges right up to the Privy Council to win the case, as it would be a long shot.
Club members approach to NCB was wrong from the start so they have badly hurt their chances for compensation. If anyone remember some investors were able to get back money from the fall of ENRON by taking the accounting firm and a host of Banks to court, on the grounds that they should have suspected the Co. accounts were phony or that they were coconspirators with ENRON. Most of these Banks settled out of court including CIBC (Canadian operation)
Club members however maligned NCB so mush that it will now be difficult to contend that they aided and abetted OLINT’s scheme. Not long after OLINT opened that account at NCB and started to depositing large sums in the account with their ridiculous business model the account should have been closed.
FX trading is not illegal and DS refusal to be transparent should not have been allowed. The Court of appeal Judges in Jamaica are a little behind on international laws that Jamaica is a signatory to in my opinion based on their ruling.
Robin Irie, let them transfer the funds to my NCB account, I will liaise with WOLF to expedite the clearance of the funds and then I will transfer 65% to his account.
FYI:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nye/pr/2008/2008jul08.html
If it walk like a duck, talk like a duck and look like a duck ……… then we get F*** !!
For sure though, Needy is right. This thing get BIGGER than DS ever envisioned (and certainly planned for).
No good lawyer, accountant or IT dept.
Of course, if you take the LOGICAL thought process, the abscence of these aspects of a good business are indicative of someone out to con/launder/tief from day one !!
needy,
Factual, I don’t deal with suss. DS had millions of dollars just invested in the club for short stints, like 1-3 months. Now when you have big amounts going in and coming back out a couple months later,this will indeed cause “red flags” As I stated before we do not know how much money DS has left but what i do know for sure is that all those people with big $$$ in DS have already gotten back most of their money. Now why would DS come out and state that he needs 9 months? The club was crippled from last year with big withdrawals from big clients. Do not think that there was never any money, money was there, but where has it gone? The only 2 answers is that like in a ponzi, it was all paid back to a few investors or more money is out there trying to be frozen by the FEDs.
Banker
I have been wondering when the penny would drop. It’s not such a long shot but you are absolutely correct.
I think everyone should sit back and reflect on the actions of officials (FSC, BOJ, etc) and the banks. Looked at through different eyes you can see it as careful steps to make sure that you would not be able to sue them successfully for failing to stop you from doing something so stupid as investing in DS, etc.
I remember when the FSC move on them people where saying how Jamaica backward and that would never happen in the US. The only way these clubs could survive was to move out of Jamaica.
Talk about jumping out of the frying apn and into the fire.
Under investigations do not mean that you are guilty, please remember this.
Under investigations means we taking you down.
People talking out their @@@es about fitting sqaure pegs into round hole and amking square water melons.
Sorry mate, i don’t feel one gram of sympathy.
Yes Needy
You are correct the activities would be suspicious and trigger an investigation despite the fact that it was not “illegally” gained. If he was not really laundering he can still beat that trap. But I think that will be difficult as DS might have a difficulty proving he was not running a PONZI scheme which would still put him under the ML rules. I put “illegally” in quotes as what DS was doing is garnering club members fund illegally. That is on account of embellishing his activities or performance to club members.
As I said before: All those transfers back and forth and the amount of banks that the money has to go through will raise red flags – especially when it is being done by an individual (David & Tracy Smith).
Money has to go from Canada (Oanda) to USA to Turks. Then from Turks to USA to Jamaica – 100’s of millions on a regular…Uncle Sam nah sleep…he lets u think that you getting away and then BAM! everything crash
Conscientious_Achievement
not nescessarily
Trust me
Banker
if he was trading it is going to be hard to to prove that he was running a PONZI
russ,
I have to agree with you, look how many times DS had to change wire information, it changed so many times that i need to go back and count.
Here is a case of a Jamaican living in Florida who ripped off numerous family members, friends and church members in a similar scheme. This guy was a Finance and IT whiz, who built a sophisticated Ponzi / Pyramid scheme using all his learned skills. He had an elaborate website that allowed members to track earnings. He was paying as much as 15% per month.
As you will notice from the U.S. Department of Justice filing, they could not get him on running a Ponzi scheme, but on money laundering and mail fraud. Since people volunteered to give him their money, they had no recourse in getting their funds back based on the scheme.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/cac/pressroom/pr2005/150.html
This guy was “small time” compared to David Smith.
yes but changing wire instructions still does not mean that you are laundering funds.
Olint would have had to come under ML investigation at sometimes.
That is like a man driving to Mobay everyday and not expecting to get a flat tyre once.
Normally you have evidence of ML , arrest the individual, freezing accounts at the same time.
This freezing of accounts, and ungoing investigation without any arrest in not the normal operandi of the FEDS
Anthoney Says:
November 26th, 2007 at 7:55 am
@Jason, I don’t know how you get 30,000% for five years…what the hell is that…can you break that down.?
Let me show you guys that 10% is possible per month…
I buy belt buckles from China, $1.5 each; I got about 4,000 of them, shipping and custom is .45 on each buckles, which brings the total cost to $1.95 each.
These same buckles are selling at the mall for $25.00, $35.00 and $45.00. Online they are selling for $14.95 and $25.00 online. The buckles normally cost $1.50 for shipping including packaging. The shipping charged to customer is $2.95 to $3.5. So you see my friend, i’m making 100% profit on shipping alone.
@Jason, smart man…can you tell whats the % profit I make on each belt buckles selling at selling $25, remember it cost me $1.95 and also remember I already made 100% profit on the shipping. In other words, the cost of the buckles already paid for with the cost of shipping charged charged to customer.
If you want to find item for sale from around the world, check http://realbigsource.com
http://cashplusinvestment.com/comments/comment-page-3/#comments
Department of justice probably wondering why they getting so many hits all of a sudden on their website!
the worst thing that DS has going for him is the email that Cliffe Hughes read last week
In it he admits to lying about interest rates earned
This in itself is fraud and probably Laundering
This is DS came on air and refuted it.
51
Winston Says:
November 26th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Well there is sure a lot of action in here.
Folks lets reason out this thing rationally.
Asssumption #1
CashPlus will not be taking anymore deposits in the next 18-24 months.
Fact#1
CashPlus will fully pay for Hilton, Drax Hall, Mainland within the next 12 months.
Assumption #2
CashPlus will form a major partnership with a multinational agency to develop the Drax Hall estate. They more than likely will borrow money on the international capital market at less than 10% per annum.
Assumption #3
CashPlus will retire all existing high interest loan in the next two years and replace them with low interest loans.
Assumption #4
CashPlus will 100% own all its acquistion during this period of time.
Assumption#5
Cash flow from its operation can easily service these debts and they will continue to acquire more companies, but this time using a more conventional approach ie using a mixture of cash from its operations plus low cost debt.
Assumption #6.
All these acquistions by CashPlus over the last couple of years is meant to bolsters its asset base, from which they hope to impress the overseas lending agencies.
Assumption #7
They will want to show that even with their high interest payments they have so far not defaulted on a single loan, and are able to meet the debt obligational of the international lending agency.
The idea of referrals is really meant to fast track all the above processes, and ensure that all purchases are paid for fully as quickly as possible.
More to come.
http://cashplusinvestment.com/comments/comment-page-6/#comments
PIPSologist:
That case prove the point I was making about ML earlier..good one!
needy
I agree – and it was a real mickey mouse/patty shop operation in retrospect. Why would he not have top notch attorneys in the U.S. on retainer who could at least keep him in line – at a MINIMUM.
Whatever it is they say about hindsight – that’s it – can’t recall the quote at the moment.
DS careless bad.
Banker said:…”The Court of appeal Judges in Jamaica are a little behind on international laws that Jamaica is a signatory to in my opinion based on their ruling.”…
You are absolutely correct. In fact, the most recent ruling is suspect, given the fact that the courts closed C+ and WW accounts for the same reasons. The took forever to make a decision and only made the decision when pushed.
Clif Hughes is reading our Blogs…
We are Nationwide once again!!!
That is why we have to behave ourselves on the blog
103
Aziza Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
I think that we are all going to be surprised/shocked/awed when we get wind of the amounts of money that CP has invested in OUR company/country. If some people would stop looking at it as a short term get “a money” and scram deal and listen to what is being said about the long term plans and the implications and impact it would have/make on this country they would see that CP is infact a viable long term investment.
http://cashplusinvestment.com/comments/comment-page-12/#comments
read on Cliff read on
John Doe
What dem saying bout us?
invest4life might need to start paying nationwide for advertisments….lolololol
JohnDoe:
Where are all those C+ cheerleaders now 🙂 ? Yuh notice how they all disappear into thin air?
@xzyled….
LOLOLLLLLLLLLL
@Robin
I need to give you space to right the history of Cash Plus and the similarities.. with other UFOs
Cliff just reading a few posts… and saying how the blog is buzzing and burning up the place….
xzyled:
Or Nationwide should PAY InvestForLife for Advertisement! There are thousands of people listen to Nationwide online because of IFL site. Cliff/Elon send us some dollars soon!
mikki
why do we always refer to small hand to mouth businesses as “mickey mouse & patty shop bizniz”?
These businesses are larger and much better run that Olint.
Just ask Walt Disney Corporation, Tastee, Juicy Beef and Mothers.
JohnDoe/ DaveSin
Right now I feel fi bun some fyah for ignorance.
= needy (6 46 pm) =
I second that comment…..calling these types of places “patty shop” does a disservice to our highly successful jamaican brands…..
betta we call these unscrupulous UFO’s “chop shop”
DSaviour remind me of the man who jump over the fence an tear up him suit to get into a dance only to realise that its a free dance.
If he wan ligit all he had to do was comply and play by the rules.
Fyah Bun!
yes Robin Irie… write
needy – You are right, From here on the term “patty shop business” should be replaced with “alternative investment house”
@marcus, needy
UFOs – now you see them now you don’t!
Robin Irie Said: ….”DSaviour remind me of the man who jump over the fence an tear up him suit to get into a dance only to realise that its a free dance.”….
LOL LOL…I did beat a few fences in my early days!
with the news today,
do you think Olint investors are in a better or worse position?
The Best Dressed man says that chicken sales have been reduced by about 10-15% and he thinks that it is the fallout from Olint that caused it
Better and worse.
Better since more money is frozen. Worse since once uncle sam claims the money Jamaican investors won’t see any of it, ever.
All dem idiat dem ova seh so a keep prayer meeting and a call the Man Name in vain. I wonder if dem pay dem tithe? dat is 10% of 10%. Dem a pay hard but didn’t the Man tell them give unto Ceasar what is for Ceasar? But still dem avoiding pax.
Talk bout one day christian dem.
@needy if you follow the rumours he had allegedly had US $100 million on FXCM, there is only $3.7 million in the account that is call it 4%
Let say the rumour of $750 million is true, if he has 4% of that money that is US $30 million or we could look at it another way $4 cent on the dollar.
All speculation….
Obviously worse, once the Feds are involved, they MAY try to hold on to whatever they find.
Then I guess we’ll have to prove “source of funds” to try and get it back ????
If we knew the REAL amount still left in O, it may be worth retaining a REAL lawyer to try and protect our interests in this matter BUT based on the response catd got to his post, I doubt people would co-operate 😦
needy,
Forget “The Best Dressed Man”…..Cliff moving on to “donkey meat”…….
I think that we are better.
Money frozen is not money lost.
remember that an investigation does not mean that you will be charged.
And if the charge is fraud, based on the ficticious rates, monies will be returned.
Also with the econmic fallout that will occur in Jamaica, the feds themselves will try to find a way to payout honest investors, if there are funds available
We are better off
REAL lawyer = Not LAG 🙂
Dem accusing we of gloating if dem did get dem money what would they doing now? When Detractor try to reason with Dem all di one Patricia mek homophobic remark about a certain Detractor but still dem call dem self christian.
Dem all ban di I just for my Leminotepp article.
If you act stupid you quite rightly invite ridicule. Dem fi tek dem medicine.
What about that confidential letter that FSC sent to its licensee regarding Olint and LewFam? What was that about?
speaking about donkey,
do you know that in rural Colombia the young men all have sex with donkeys as a way of “bruking their ducks”
DEAD SERIOUS.
Ask anyone from Colombia
Rhatid! Its after 1 am. Today is my 13Th aniverary so I going to get some shut eye.
Bless people and remember got gave us our head to do more that carry load.
needy – you gone WAY of course now 🙂
@Robin Irie.. happy anniversary man. Don’t do anything with money and mash up the marriage.. Think and check before you invest
Dave Sin,
this letter is sent to them, so that the FSC will know where all their accounts are, and
1) freeze the accounts for the Feds
2) inform the Feds of the accounts
3) all of the above
Listen to needy. He knows, folks.
bwoy Marcus,
sometimes with all the stress here, we need something light to get a good laugh
needy
I use the mickey mouse label as listed here:
“In the British sitcom Red Dwarf: After the team’s substandard equipment nearly cost them their lives, one character pointed out, “We’re a real Mickey Mouse operation, aren’t we?”
I borrowed patty shop from a fellow poster but you are right they are well oiled machines!
I think investors are in a better position even if no monies are recovered because at least we know there was something left to freeze and it hasn’t all completely evaporated. Speaking for myself, I still want the full story not the speculative tales I have been reading and hearing, even though it may be a combination of said tales.
Obviously the FEDs must have contacted FSC about Olint’s Licence. I am sure the FSC will be helping the FEDs with their ungoing investigation.
Happy anniversary man Robin Irie!! Have a red stripe on me…none of the green stuff!
@mikki and others If you have problems with the audio clips visit http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/ and update your flash player
The other clips will be up in a minute. Contrary to that other blog I work…
I know that people here might not really care to his well being, but
I however know that David cannot take this pressure that is happening to him right now.
needy – I get a prips on the BC issue at BNS but would love to hear what you know – you are so well informed.
Marcus the BC issue?
I do not understand
please explain
needy: Who cares about DS. If he is under pressure, he should utlize his wife…best stress reliever Or he can check out a couple go-go club in TCI.
investforlife
Thanks that worked!
needy
what are you saying he needs to be on meds? That’s no problem.
lol
as i said Dave Sin, we need comic relief, LOL
yuh hear that the man dem trading donkey for guns with Haiti now? LOL
Jmaica is the best.
no what i am saying is that he might be suicidal
Needy – The ex CEO. Two issues, one of which may be a part of this whole story, the other just an exec “having fun” (it’s not just DS who has other interests)
they are doing due dilligence on donkeys now.
LOL
needy
Damn – so that means we would never know what happened? Well I am sure those close to him know this so they need to keep a suicide watch on him.
no Marcus I have no news on the BC issue.
I have no connections there.
Since Cliff knew of the Fed letter to FXCM before Ds’s counsel LAG, then LAG should be promptly fired in my opinion.
I know that his demeanor was really bad when the 3 Jamaican lawyers saw him a few days ago.
Really bad
I remember a few years ago he had a personal problem and it really mashed him up.
Had him drinking and smoking heavily, and really stressing out.
this problem paled in comparrison to what he is facing now.
Remember there is a reason why they are call lawyers…lying. If the lawyers did not know about the Feds letter it does not bodes well for DS legal team…embarrassing.
Needy…what was that minor problem and what was he smoking?
BC-who is let go before months of retiring, what’s up with that.
with all the accounts now frozen DS might have a problem paying his lawyers.
The court has to give permission to release legal funds,
And lawyers charge fees based on what you can afford
His total legal fees are going to run at least U$4mill, cause the lawyers know that he can afford this, cause it is in the FXCM account
You guys apparently had it mostly right all along
So why are you still so obsessed with what takes place on another blog????
Maybe if some of you hadn’t been so pompous and obnoxious more people would have listened and more money would have been saved
And are those sexist and vulgar remarks really necessary women are not created to be “utilized” get out of the Dark Ages
dave Sin It was a personal problem man, nothing to do with money or anything illegal,
I dont want to go so deep into his affairs on a blog,
Jamaican (#4 Bus):
Do you know whay they call your site the invest4losers site? If you answer that question, I will gladly buy you all the rum you can drink. …and you done know you can drink (I see you are in my part of the world)!
Needy
Who cares how much stress DS is under
now he knows what some of his club members were suffering for the last 7 months
Blogkiller (MADmax):
Is that your? You should really speak for yourself? You don’t speak for all women, only the ones that are underutilized!
needy
Since DS is a praying man, what DS needs to pray for now is greater capacity to deal with the life he has chosen.
Blogkiller said:..”Who cares how much stress DS is under”..
There you go…there are somethings you and I can agree on…cool!
blogkiller
True, then again maybe it is because i know him and like him personally because i know that he was a good person before he became a victim to the hype is the reason why I feel sorry for him, even though I am still angry that I have lost money as well
also there are ppl here who are insinuating that the BIG man them get payout
Trust me that is not true. The Big man them also lose big, but they are just keeping silent because they are ashamed.
DS needs help I agree and so those all of the victims of this situation.
Remember to check out this link
Everybody screws up at some pt …..Everybody…and there are usually consequences to ones actions…it seems David has messed up big time…..though I stand to lose like most persons on the blog…..I am not going to tear him down bcause I believe he genuinely was trying to make a difference in enriching the lives of the average Jamaican.
Most persons on the blog will perhaps strongly disagree but that’s my opinion.
mk
I KNOW that he was never a thief
I KNOW that he was a humble person
I KNOW that he was a genuine person
He was overcome by the circumstances.
They hype, celebrity status all got to his head.
He was not prepared on how to deal with it.
Everything was happening too fast.
He was not properly prepared to deal with the responsibilities and celebrity that was handed to him.
Just imagine yesterday you were a nobody in JMMB, begging your friends for a ticket to the Jazz Festival, and tomorrow you are the biggest sponsor of the JAZZ Festival, hobnobbing with the Prime Minister, GG and others, while your lear is at the airport.
It is very hard to not get caught up in that hype.
David believed the lie, and it consumed him
THE BIG BOYS GET THEIR PAYOUT, ALL WHO REQUESTED WITHIN THE LAST 7 MONTHS. IT’S ONLY THE GREEDY ONES THAT WERE KEEP ON ROLLING LIKE EMPTY BARRELS GET KNOCKED. !!
BIG BOYS ALWAYS WIN IF THE CHOOSE TOO !!
SUPPOSEDLY USD 40M WAS SENT IN WEEK 2 OF JUNE TO PAY SOME OF THE BIG BOYS !! ARE THERE ANY BIG BOYS HERE THAT WILL ADMIT? I PLEED THE FIFTH !!!
no Golden Lot
that is only a rumour as well.
Nobody has gotten any payout in the last & months, with the exception of the nickel and diming that happened in June
No Big Boys, Nobody.
Dont listen to the rumours
I agree with you…again needy I feel u r very close to the ground.
Needy,
Do u believe that David is a talented trader?
what happened was that we were told that 50mill was incoming in June, in tranches of .
10mill
15mill
15mill
10mill
The first tranch that came was $1million instead of 10.
When asked DS said that it was a mistake and that the remainder was on its way.
The nickel and dime payout was done out of this million.
We are still waiting for the rest.
I personally know people (real not imaginary) that have over $200,000US in Olint – that is not no play play money…dem don’t get nuttin all now since late last year. The only big boys that probably get some money back is the big boys with the big gun.
Hey investforlife, next time, see if you can record the clips of Cliff reading post from this blog. That would be cool 🙂
Plenty people hurting right now. I never had any money in any of these things, but I know people who lost plenty. I tried to warn people, but some didn’t listen. Now they’re suffering. Really sad …
WELL ASK THE YOUNG TURKS IF THEY GOT PAID? HOPEFULLY THEY WILL SPEAK TO TRUTH
With all the big licks i have taken I am still prepared to forgive DS (that is my personal choice) – I believe he genuinely tried but made like most of us made mistakes along the way.
NO REMEMBER U HAVE BIG BOYS WITH THE POWER OF THE PEN !! THE PEN MIGHTER THAN THE FIRE STICK OR SWORD, BUT THE FACT IS THEY ARE ALL MIGHTY !!! THE DUPPY THAT CAN FRIGHTEN THE MOST GET PAID FIRST !!
mk
I think that when David conceptualised a trading club with his friends (no BIg boys, he only met these when the hype started), If he had stuck to the plan, these few clubmembers would be getting a good return on their investments.
David should be a good trader, he has been doing for a while. He was not making Super Profits for JMMB, since the operandi was different, they were not day trading.
i have never seen him trade, but I know that he was confident enough to think that everyone could make money, maybe not the profits that Olint paid out.
It was not until when the BIG BOYS entered then the middle men , brokers, et al that his problems started.
I think that if the original plan was followed there would have been a small club still operating in Jamaica doing FX trading,
This club would have had no FSC problems
NO bank Problems
Looks like delusions have resurfaced over on the #4 bus. Why can’t they just see reality? They must blame things on some conspiracy. So sad …
Golden Lot – ease up on the caps, follow the guidelines !
The Young Turks are bawling just like us.
And U$200k does not qualify as BIG BOY, not even BIG BABY
Who are the “young turks”, if I may ask?
Needy
Again I totally agree with you – it was all downhill after the big boys entered….I am still hoping for him to pull through somehow…
OK !! Oops sorry !! Very rude of me !! I was just stating a point
It looks like the delusional on the number 4 are now blaming Cliff Hughes, so you can add him to the list
Well somebody who I would classify as a big boy with MILLIONs said they got paid back in January or DEC..is that a lie?
the “young turks” if I am right are the 2 young politicians who kicked Seaga out of the JLP
For real USD 200k is small change for the BIG ROLLERS !! Anybody less than USD 750K are fryers !!
I know money was being paid put but it was not the full amount requested…say if they requested $20k they only got back 5K.
U got it right !! But the turkship has grown since then !!
Ironically it’s the turkship clan that helped him move operations to the TCI !!!
miachica
back in Dec- January is possible.
I got paid interest up until March
Needy:
and why do they remain nameless? I lot of us outside of Jamaica is not necessarily up to date on all the info. Fly the gate…you are not normally shy about that!!!! 🙂
anyway the must be an end !!
O.K…..It is now confirmed …Needy is a Big Boy >US$750K.
no man it was not the Turks that facilitated the TCI move, that is another story, but i cant get into it, cause it might just reveal my identity
Needy
Up to march…. you did well…most of us have not got since Jan.
needy,
I mean FULL money..THEY claim they got ALL their money out…funny thing is, there the only once that have made this claim that I know of personally. I just wanted to know if it was BS.
NAw I had friends that was getting up till APRIL…I heard Olint had diff class of invetor sor somin.
Needy has a whole heap of info – definitely one of the original club members..nuh true?
Anyway you have really given us a lot of info and less speculation….respect.
no no I am not a big boy at all,
I could have been a BIG BOY, but early I did not like what I was seeing, the hype, the drinking etc,
i did not expect a crash like this but i knew that something would happen,
Cause everything was happening too fast for comfort
miachica,
If it was Dec – Jan, maybe he took it all out,
After that NO WAY.
mk
It is going to be hard for him to pull through
If you want something to hope for, hope that there is enough money available for him to payout something on the dollar figure that he owes you.
His trading his way out will never materialise, with the baggage that he is now carrying he wont be allowed on any fx trading platforms in the future
Anyone remember Nick Leeson ?
http://www.nickleeson.com/index.html
Who could play DS in the movie version of our “Rogue Trader” ??
Needy, back to the Young Turks…. who are they?
Every system has a class structure !! But the universal structure is the triangle (2D) or the pyramid (3D). You have the top feeders and the bottom feeders. The system is tiered. So the aim is to be at the top or apex of the system so that you never end of being a loser !!
I think one of them in court for his seat?
Needy:
BTW, the people on the other bus want you to leave this TRAIN and come talk to them. Don’t go for it, as you have correctly concluded, the collective IQ on that bus is in the double digit range!
DaveSin
I do not like to call new names here. Just think, the young turks was a title given to the young politicians who were instrumental in kicking Seaga out of the JLP a few years ago.
miachica:
I get that one…VAZ! Who is the other one?
DaveSin
I do not even know how to get on the other bus.
DaveSin,
I wa sjust about to ask if I was correct now u call out the name.
Needy:
Good…I won’t post the link AGAIN 🙂
You have to give better clues. Someone did give the initials…I will have to go back and check or you could give the initials?
JR from out east
the 2 of them work right under Bruce nose
Yuh right we nuh inna di name calling !! Dis bus yah a drive straight !!
Needy:
I got it!!! But how did they do what you said they did. These guys have no power?
Man must do there research and read !! Keep abreast of current affairs in Jamaica Land we Love
Men must do there research and read !! Keep abreast of current affairs in Jamaica Land we Love
@needy
Some of the people on the blog who cheered and encouraged the Moderator to kick us off that blog, are very impressed with your knowledge.
Interestingly it is becuase they kicked us off that blog why this Blog was formed.
One of them has asked OLINT-FOR-LIFE to see if he can get you over to the other bus(blog)
LOL.. Ask them when they inviting back Jay, Jason, Robin Irie, NoCotec,DaveSin and myself.
Let me tell you about them…
1. By the way you read “Reflections by ‘Leminotep Jr’”. Robin posted that on the other blog and it upset them so they deleted it… Robin send it to the Gleaner they publish it.
2. When TCI FX made a negative return for April and we posted it. They got vex and delete the information.
3. When we posted that David Smith was a principal of TCI FX , they told us stale irrelevant news and deleted the information
4. And the stories continue on and on about the censorship on that blog…
Don’t bother going over there. Stay where you are as they read you over here all the time
This post is for your information I will delete later as it not really relevant
NO POWER, and them remove Eddie !! Almighty Bruce afraid of them like puss, that’s why he has to watch them closely. Bruce feels like he’s puuling the strings but it’s really the TURKS that are the poppet masters !!
Dave check you mail but hold down the information I sent you. Don’t say a word
We suppose to share info !! Dave the flock wants to know !!
Driva stop de buss !! Man pon de bus a hol’ secret !!!
but you know what guys, there is no reason why you cannot start with a small float and trade currecies for yourselves,
The most important thing is to have your systems, adhere to them and be disciplined at all times.
Most traders are gamblers by nature, and when they lose they become impatient and try to trade their way out of losses immediately and irrationally.
this is why the big trading houses have systems that prevent a trader from doing any other trades when there losses reach a certain stage.
There is this book “Adventures of a Currecny Trader”
It is a fable, but it tells you the things that can go WRONG, as opposed to all the things that can go RIGHT
I know that it is hard to tell you to think of your OLINT funds as lost, but please look at it as the price you paid to learn something that can make you a decent living if done properly.
The BIg banks are doing it, and they are not going bust because of it, so there is money to be made in it, but please research and practice before entering it. If you dont, well might as well take your money to Caymanas Park.
@Golden Lot… It is NOT information about David Smith, Olint or any other UFO … I can tell that..
Once we have info on UFOs we let it go.. It is some other information…
Alright !! Your word is your bond !! Driva start again. Pull out of the terminus !!!
John Doe,
I am not going anywhere, I am not a young person, This is the first blog that i have ever been on in my life, and i can barely navigate my way around it, much less.
That is why I like this bus !! It’s openness !! We pon route again !!
I want to start trading !! Which is the best platform to trade on ? Mi really nuh waan end up pon a shadow platform !!
Needy,
Do you believe that anyone will recover funds? After the Feds step in its usually a done deal. If dirty money mix with clean everybody get lef. Separation of the two to give back to legitimate investors does not sound feasible.
Golden Lot.
Make sure that you read, and practice on a shadow platform first, and practice to be disciplined, or you surely will lose your money.
Needy just saw your 4:42pm post and I agree with most of what u said…
FOLKS!!!!!…As usual I am going to add a different perspective…
let me preface my point by saying this is directed only to persons who inspite of everything try as best as possible to be objective………If u r not an objective person and cannot appreciate another mans perspective..without getting personal….please do not comment…this is not meant to cause an argument…just hear me out…
Despite all of what is being said… David Smith has not been found guilty in a court of law of any wrong doing…some may say not yet but he has’nt…
We have all been speculating and putting out various premises…but a premise is just that…a premise it is not gospel…As someone who was in the corporate world I know first hand how eveil people can be… trust me…i was the victim of an orchestrated attempt to taint my reputation…just because I was vociferous in defending a matter of principle…it got to the point wherethings were placed on my employee file..things which did not exist b4…..
We have many many questions and few answers that’s why all of us are speculating…and yeah some of us have inside info…at this point everybody and their grandmother has inside info…
The reality is that yeah there were some management and control issues…which is sometimes inevitable when things grow too fast.,,,not saying this is any excuse by any stretch of the imagination….but by his own admission this happened….but needy made a good point…”what if…just what if…the Feds had instructed the various platforms to delay honouring his requests while they completed their investigations….this is indeed a possibility
Everyone in this blog including myself has been with alll due respect speculating…weather we like it or not…ulitmately The truth we will be revealed in due time…..
At times things appear what we want them to be only to find out that they are not…
If indeed DS lost his way at some point…..then that will be it..I would have been very disappointed to say the least moreso because I know his brother extremely well ….the reality is that we all mess up it does’nt mean that we cannot mend what we broke…..as to whether he will be given another chance to do so is highly unlikely…but….no one in this blog is beyond reproach…everyone of us at some point have cheated, lied, given a police officer $ to get off a speeding ticket, broken a stop light, stole, decieved, misresptresented facts, embellished stories etc…
I am not saying DS is a saint and in the end he MAY very well be guilty….but the truth is that at this point NONE OF US KNOW THE TRUTH…if in due time he’s found guily so let it be….
Being investigated for something is not the same as being charged for something….
Personal limitations aside, has anyone in this room ever fought like hell to clear his/her name..in the face of manufactured evidence, which is only compounded by your personal inadequacies????.
Never underestimate the power of the media and the Government to exacerbate a problem
Golden Lot Said: …”Men must do there research and read !! Keep abreast of current affairs in Jamaica Land we Love”….
I pride myself on knowing what’s going on in Jamaica. I read everything Jamaican (most books published in Jamaica).
However, this is the first time I have heard anything about the “young Turks”…I think I have heard the term in the gossip section, but I did not know what it meant or who they were talking about.
Question…where/who/how did they get this power from?
I like this bus as well……Needy…we soon appoint you as the driva on one of the shifts.
The opportunity to discuss/listen/share ideas and opinions is certainly very theapeutic at these very testing times….
I THOUGHT THIS BLOG WAS ABOUT REAL INVESTMENTS FOR LIFE. ALL I CAN SEE IS INFO ABOUT OLINT. WHAT ABOUT OTHER INVESTMENT DISCUSSION???
MONEY. CONNECTIONS. JUST STREET SMARTS MIXED WITH EDUCATION. MASSES
Wachovia is only too happy to hold on to the funds at this time. They have their own problems. On another note, DS traded mainly with Oanda. I would like those on this blog with open lines, to get CH to find those balances and verify the 750M and 780M which was shown to the elite including our young politians at the private meeting.
The Third Side:
When you said your worked in the corporate world are you talking about “in the US” or “in Jamaica”?
pon di edge
I personally think that this Fed thing is overrated.
If DS is charged for Money Laudering, then my views will change’
Normally you arrest a man and freeze his assetts when you have proof that he has laundered funds.
I do not know, but I get the impression that there is no arrest warrant out for David( then again it might exist and we just dont know as yet)
Trust me the Feds are going to try to indict him for something. If it will stand up remains to be seen.
The email that Cliff read, I think could indict him on fraud charges.
If convicted they could order him to make restitution.
But all this is speculation, we just have to see how the next 2 weeks play out
But remember this, Not because you are under FBI investigation means that it is a done deal.
DaveSin..
in Jah-mek-ya..LOL,LOL
If DS wants to relieve the pressure – publish his Oanda account. Once that is done, he can come home to Jamaica and we will ALL join him in the fight against Uncle Sam !
Needy – stop laughing !!
I hear your point. However based on how he operated and how he opened accounts its very hard to believe that tainted money isn’t there. Whether the Feds will find it remains to be seen.
Third Side…I have been saying (not as eloquent) the same thing in my earlier blogs….so yes I agree with you.
THE THIRD SIDE
You could not have put it better.
I also KNOW as fact that you cannot believe the hype in the Media.
We have to just be patient and let the dust settle
Well on this forum it as it says the net capital of onanda on may 30th 2008 was $164,256,938
Dont know if this is any significance?
Click to access fcmdata0508.pdf
pon the edge
Well considering that he only took bank drafts, if tainted money was there, it would have been laundered by the commercial banks in Jamaica and then given to him.
So it would be the banks that should be investigated for laundering. NUH TRUE?
Marcus – I am in stitches
While this is true he still opened account so onus was on him to Know Your Customer before he took a stick.
anyway ppl I am going to my bed now.
I hope that there are no more surprises tomorrow.
The worse that can happen is we here that DS has been indicted.
See you all tomorrow
reference made of “young turks” in the article below:
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20061212/news/news6.html
The link relevant !! It shows that USD 750 M is not there !!
I see the comments earlier about DS getting “caught up in the lie” and so on. That seems to make some kind of sense, a bit like celebrity music stars or athletes. And then I remember that unlike the music stars or athletes it is DS who was lying and is still lying. How anybody can have sympathy for someone who falls for his own lies is totally beyond me. In fact, how can anyone even believe such a thing? Or care.
The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commisson list all it merchants and their capital as far back as January 2008 on their website.
Financial Data for Futures Commission Merchants
OANDA CORPORATION N NFA 01/31/2008 $157,853,035
How much money DS was suppos eto have in onanda again?
FOR real !! Pure lies !!
The other important question of course, is how much money have we all invested in the O.
What is the veracity of the US$750 million figure ? I can believe it is possible, but is it a fact ??
ramacan:
Thanks for the link! Now I get the complete picture.
miachica:
The net capital base is calculated based on total capital minus liabilities +/- some other stuff, so that number doesn’t really say how much is in their account at any one time. There is a formula that Jay had provided the link to at the NFA site that shows the calculation.
Here is the link that shows how that number is calculated (Adjusted Net Capital)
http://www.nfa.futures.org/compliance/issues_fcm_ib.asp
What was the total capital(Revenue)? If it’s less than or equal to USD 750M then there is no way DS could have cash of that amount waiting to be released !!
I know many are new to blogging on the JA UFOs. I was one of the original UFO “detractors” on these blogs 🙂
The Third Side: I stated way back that the Due Diligence Excuse was a lie. I was vilified for my comments. People will believe anything when they have money at risk. I have explained on several occasions that I have personally transacted well over a US billion dollars (up to several hundred million per year) through Wachovia.
I have access to their platform where I can wire anywhere from my desk. I have received a few dozen subpoenas over the year for records. I am required to obtain and keep records on my clients. The Due Diligence excuse was total crap and the recent revelations have proven what I said.
When the District Attorney (DA) is investigating someone, often via a grand jury… they send me a subpoena for records and I cannot disclose it … to do so is obstruction of justice (up to 10 years for it). When an account is frozen… the court order etc is sent to the bank or financial institution… The institution first freezes the account and then notifies the client via letter that the account is frozen and usually why or under whose authority.
You can see the sequence evolving right now. The letter to freeze is public… due diligence was crap. Also be aware that there are very likely secret request for records to various parties that cannot be disclosed.
A lot of the supporters vilified and cussed me when I stated this info way back when the due diligence crap surfaced.
To comply with CFTC regulations and NFA Rules, FCMs and independent IBs have to compute adjusted net capital using the following calculation:
Current Assets – Liabilities – Charges Against Capital = Adjusted Net Capital.
Its my opinion that the Adjusted Net Capital has more relevance to the FCMs (Broker) than to Trader (Olint).
In other words, the asset and liabilities is associated with the Broker and does not include Traders funds. I hope some with better FX knowledge can correct me on that. Bottom line: Olint numbers does not factor into the equation!!! (IMHO)
DaveSin,
Well do we have an acct around here some where…common sense tells me it still couldnt add up?
I dont know about these thins so I could be wrong.
nocotec…
I hear u and respect your opinion on the matter…..In due time the Truth will be revealed……
DaveSin,
ok I see what ur saying
…any and everything in the dark will be brought to light….in due course……(such as all the Jamaican Ploiticians and bankers who have $$ in Olint)…LOL,LOL
“stay deh think is DS alone a fret right now…story soon come to bump..LOL,LOL
There is a point many seem to be misunderstanding with the US DOJ investigation. Notice that the accounts frozen belong to the folks whose accounts were named in the NFA complaint against I-Trade.
As of now it is most likely that DS, IL etc are the ones being investigated for laundering money for themselves… as of right now, it is likely not any of Olint or MD’s clients. This may change as the investigation deepens.
The DA has likely made secret requests for bank records, broker records etc… and likely form multiple jurisdictions as they dig deeper. This may lead to individuals facing investigations for their own money laundering or other crimes.
It is also possible the records may also be referred to the IRS which may also do their own investigations for tax fraud or evasion.
the Third Side said: “Despite all of what is being said… David Smith has not been found guilty in a court of law of any wrong doing…some may say not yet but he has’nt…”
Well, that sounds like philosophy to me.
If you break the law while standing beside a policeman and he catches you and says, stop the lawbreaking and you stop, what do you call that?
If you break the law while standing beside a policeman and he catches you and says, stop the lawbreaking and you tell him to mind his own business and take him to court and the judge decides that he was right to tell you to stop, what do you call that?
You are seriously naive if you think that it is only if and when DS is convicted of a crime that you can conclude that he has broken the law. In the world of white collar crime (of which DS is now firmly in the top rank in Caribbean and even maybe world history), hardly anyone ever gets convicted, even in the great USA.
And in the US, most of the convictions when they get them are for offences like wire fraud or obstruction of justice. For the most part they get plea bargains and they use civil actions with a vengeance and these are what create the sense that the feds get their man. In our part of the world (copying England still with the usual 20 year lag), we have no such convenient offences, or they have a much more restricted use. If he is left to the tender mercies of the Jamaican court system, he has nothing to fear and The Third Side will be able to keep on saying what he just said. Trust me on this, DS will never be convicted of anything in Jamaica.
He will also never face a trial in the US. If the price of that is that he never enters the US again in his life, well, it’s a big world. The great Carlos Hill was untroubled by such travel restrictions which didn’t stop him from raising a great empire on the backs of poor Jamaicans. Why can’t DS do the same in some other place, or even JA in, say, 10 or 15 years time? When DS enters parliament after the 2017 general elections and puts in motion his trading plan for the country’s fx reserves there shall be jubilation and libations all around.
I think Oanda is worth ALOT more than that in deposits. Did anyone else with a Compass Card notice that the closure of all existing accounts held and funded through would be cancelled on July 15th s stated in the letter from Hallmark……… same day as the raid. What a coincidence.
NoCotec is here and is verse on these matters so he will explain it better to you. The way I see it, the Adjusted Net Capital is akin to ones Networth or the Networth of the FCMs (Broker?).
BTW…I had the same questions a few days back untill Jay pointed me to the link.
Bob Bob Bob….
It is obvious that I was not as articulate as I should have been…hence your misunderstanding of what I was saying…
I will now try to do a better job of encapsulating the substantive issue I was trying to address in my post…..
“WE ARE ALL SPECULATORS, NONE OF US KNOW THE TRUTH, IN DUE TIME IT WILL BE REVEALED AND NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE ABILITY OF THE MEDIA OR GOVERNMENT TO EXACERBATE A SITUATION”
The adjusted Net capital (ANC) is a measure of the health of the broker, not of the amount of money in client’s accounts. Clients funds or deposits may be referred to by such terms as deposit liabilities or funds under management. Clients funds are kept separate from the Brokers owns funds which the adjusted net capital is measuring… the fees earned form such things as the spread go to increase the ANC. It is measuring how well capitalized the broker is which helps to tell you if it has enough funds on hand to meet contingencies and therefore how likely it is to remain in business. A broker with little ANC is operating on the edge, the regulatory body sets minimums.
Just talk to source related to david, good things a come! Our savior is going to give us what is owed.
The Net Capital amount in a FOREX trading account is the funds needed on reserve by the trading company to cover customers’ leveraged trades. With FOREX trading, some spot brokers will allow you to trade up to 400 times the amount held in your account, so the Net Capital is the amount needed to cover those trades. Based on these figures, David must not have a lot held on Oanda because the Net Capital is so small – only U$160+MM. Oanda would need to have at least 100 times what OLINT and all other account holders had on deposit with them, which would be a lot more that what they are reserving. This is of course assuming 100:1 leverage, which is on the low side in the FOREX market.
Having said this, no real managed FOREX trader would be trading on small platforms like FXCM, Oanda, I-Trade FX, FX Solutions, etc. because of the high Bid/Ask spreads. Let me put this into perspective. If David Smith purchased $100MM of AUD/NZD (Australia / New Zealand) currency pair on FX Solutions, the club would pay $120,000 in fees [12 PIPs spread] to make that one trade. A U$100MM trade for a club like OLINT should be a small frequent trade. For OLINT to make a U$100MM trade it would only be required to have U$1MM or less of its [members’] own funds in the account to cover that trade. It is this spread (Bid / Ask price) where the FX trading platforms make their money.
The questions that I have always ask OLINT members are — why would David not go directly to the market makers if he was a real player in the FOREX market? Why would he be trading on these small trading platforms, when he had more funds under management than these platforms held in reserve? Why would he be paying PIPs spreads when he could be streaming his own data from Reuters or some other market maker, thus managing his spreads at 0 to 1 PIPs per trade? With the amount of funds I hear going around in OLINT’s accounts, he should be trading directly with Reuters, CitiFX Pro, or one of those big banks / ECN accounts. In my mind, David Smith should have created his own trading system on a platform like MetaQuotes, where he could have had the ultimate flexibility.
All these signs / questions point to the fact that he either did not know what he was doing or he was not trading at all. Or maybe he just was not that bright to figure this out. Amazing!!!
Only time and investigations will tell or uncover the truth.
300 of 10000 names on list was of interest to NFA.
These accounted for 29 Millions which NFA agreed would not be released until further investigations. Understand that the balance of approximately 200 Million was supposed to be wired. All hell broke loose when JA banker advises other interest what a gwan.
Lets rest this argument about Oanda right now.I have had experiences where traders have told me all kind of gains and numbers,however when i asked for documentation they came up with multiple excuses.However the few and I mean probaly 3 out of 50 would send a letter from there platform eg.FXCM,OANDA….stating a summary of there performance and there current balance in funds.The most important part of this letter is the person who signs it from THE PLATFORM whom then leave a contact
through email or phone for us to then VERIFY..DAVID S. get us one of those and will relax and wait out the 9 months confidently…until him show me that……
PIPSologist:
Excellent post! The problem is 99 % of the people on this and other blog does not understand what you just stated and hence, cannot respond to your queries. Having said that, I have two questions (I have zero FX knowledge, so these questions could be viewed as dumb):
If for a $100MM trade, if DS is only required to have $1MM deposited and let’s say he came out of that trade with a $50MM lost (I know there are stop loss built-in), how does the broker guarantee that he will get the remaining $49MM from the trader or that the trader even have the $49MM available?
If Broker has a “small” ANC, does that translate into a “small” inherent leverage ratio for the trader?
I think a follow maybe 70 % of what you said and totally understood your conclusions, but is there a way to rewrite your post on a more elementary level, since I found your post to be very informative.
Where Is may Daisy and Ingrid Loiten in all of These happenings?
Will she be leaking the much needed email to Cliff Too?
The fact is that DS said every member is guaranteed 80% of their investments because he only trades 20% of invested sums in forex markets !! If that’s the case why the hell he does not make payments to members regularly since January 08 from the guaranteed 80%. This guy is rinsing members money.
Cliff may have to use a secret agent to snap it from her computer.
Remember that she is in Africa. Not sure how she will be able to defend herself from those shores. It look as if she has placed her self into her own prison.
Anyway the higher the monkey clim is the more it expose; especially when Ingrid is hoarding investors money and a live it up big whereever she is.
Clifl need to find her soon for an update like on air.
PIPSologist are you sure? Isn’t the leveraged trades in Liabilities or contingent Liabilities part of the formula and so when you subtract it out… the ANC becomes like the excess capital that is left over.
DaveSin
After the trader losses equals his initall 1MM that he puts up, the broker issues a margin call for more funds to be deposited for him to stay in the trade. If this is not done, then the trade is stopped out. Of course if the trader does not have a stop loss order, the trade will stay open so long as there is money in the account to cover the losses. So 50MM and more could be wiped out if he has that amount deposited in the account with the Broker.
The Third Side
I understand your point, thanks.
Not in response, but I still say DS and company will not spend one single night in jail (except maybe the night they get arrested before they get bail).
Bob…
Good morning bro…I agree with u too many politician’s and bankers in Olint…LOL,LOL,LOL
lol .. Good morning to you, Third Side.
Guys, I think we all are speculating here. Nationwide seems to always have the cutting accurate news even before OLINT lawyers do; so lets just wait and listen on what CH have to say about this issue.
Golden Lot wrote on July 21st, 2008 at 9:19 pm:
“Ironically it’s the turkship clan that helped him move operations to the TCI !!!”……….Absolutely NOT TRUE Golden Lot.
Wheres the money? Has anyone thought about looking a I Trade FX, LLC for the money, maybe there is a trail.
jfkpost:
Thanks! If that is so, whats the significance of the $100 MM number or the leverage amount?
Nocotec Said: …”PIPSologist are you sure? Isn’t the leveraged trades in Liabilities or contingent Liabilities part of the formula and so when you subtract it out… the ANC becomes like the excess capital that is left over.”…
NoCotec: Now you are confusing me! I agree with everything you said in your previous post about ANC, but your latest question/statement contradict that.
The way I see, the broker is only an intermediary in the FX transaction and technically, is only holding the funds and as such, those funds never enter its balance sheet (which is what ANC captures at given point in time). That is, he is just a facilitator in the trade and once the trade is “complete” credit and debits the funds to mutual parties…winner/loser. In other words, the completed trade results in a zero sum gain for the broker. Of course he makes a fee from the transaction and it is this fee that is continuously being added to the asset side, with any corresponding liabilities.
Explained another way, if the “contingent liabilities” are assumed, what would be the corresponding assets? If these liabilities (by itself) are factored into the equation, the ANC would be a very large NEGATIVE number for the broker – out of compliance!!!(I think).
If you look at the NFA list of brokers, there are companies that have over $1 Billion in ANC. So, my question is why such high values? What’s the benefit (if the trader must always have the funds in account up to the amount of the trade)?
We need some clarification on this issue, since it can give some insight as to the relationship between ANC and how much funds are deposited into the Broker’s “active” account at any given point in time. The relevance of this exercise of course is to ascertain the truthfulness of the Olint’s claim of $X MM on Oanda’s platform.
The above might not make sense, but the plead of ignorance on my path such be factored into the discussion 🙂
The way I see, the broker is only an intermediary in the FX transaction and technically, is only holding the funds and as such, those funds never enters its balance sheet (which is what ANC captures at at given point in time). That is, he is just a facilitator in the trade and once the trade is “complete” credit and debits the funds to mutual parties…winner/loser. In other words, the completed trade results in a zero sum gain for the broker. Of course he makes a fee from the transaction and it is this fee that is continuously being added to the asset side, with any corresponding liabilities.
xzyled, on July 22nd, 2008 at 6:46 am Said: …”Golden Lot wrote on July 21st, 2008 at 9:19 pm: “Ironically it’s the turkship clan that helped him move operations to the TCI !!!”……….Absolutely NOT TRUE Golden Lot. …”
xzyled:
That is an ABSOLUTE statement, if I have ever seen one. So that begs the question: why is it NOT TRUE?
Sorry for the repeat section in previous post (bottom paragraph).
it is best that we take everything that DS says as a lie.
If there was U$750mill on any platform, surely payouts would have been made at sometime in the past month
He showed some special ppl the copy of an email during a teleconference that he had arranged.
He though that these people would have been influential. be able to ease his mounting pressure.
At the time he had wanted these ppl to come to the public and assure everyone that all was well.
If all was well, he could have simply forwarded this email to all the clubmembers inboxes for them to view
Why show it to a few, and not everyone if it was real?
The Turks had no role in his move to TCI
A gentleman named PB took him to Turks and did the introduction to key people. DS took it from there and has nothing to do with the clan directly. I don’t know this as a “fact” but PB has loose lips out of which he has more than hinted when all was well in 2006.
DaveSin: if the broker is allowing leverage to traders, it is in effect extending a loan to traders. If the trader loses and continues to lose on a trade, the broker will keep taking the funds on deposit until the funds are gone. At that point they issue a margin call for more funds… but a trader could end owing money to the broker (if he refuses to pay, I think he would be prevented from opening accounts on other platforms as well)… I think the broker has to account for these liabilities/contingent liabilities as they have to cover them if the trader does not.
sadsac.
Yes PB took him to TCI
It is a FACT
nocotec – retail brokers will not allow negative balances. Notices are sent at 20%, 10% and all trades closed at 5% and margin call issued, is what my broker does. It is easy to check Oanda’s trading conditions.
needy – thanks – there is quite abit more to that as well, as I m sure you are aware.
sadsac
the funny thing is PB is probably the only person smling now.
one of two for sure. I wonder what their tax liability is?
Needy, on July 22nd, 2008 at 8:15 am Said: …”it is best that we take everything that DS says as a lie. If there was U$750mill on any platform, surely payouts would have been made at sometime in the past month..”…
Needy:
But is there a way that one can rationally debunk that myth (without the benefit of an audited financial statement)? I would think we attempt, on this site at least, to provide some rationale to what is said and/or concluded.
sadsac: yeah forex is different in that respect from stocks… it is cash on deposit so it is just taken… with stock/securities brokers… it is the stock/securities on deposit and it is possible in some market conditions that the balance can become negative before the securities can be liquidated. These brokers have ANC requirements too but calculating it is more complicated.
NoCotec:
I agree with what you just said. I was assuming (based on what some else stated) that the trader can NEVER exceed the “available funds” in their account. In other words, margin calls are made instantaneously at that point where available funds are exhausted. In other word…no loan!
That is why I ask the question…what’s the purpose of the “leverage” amount if the trader could never exceed available funds.
Again, this is outside the realm of my expertise and as such I am just trying to get some basic rudimentary knowledge. Bear with me!
Leverage allows the trader to magnify his gains (and his losses too). E.g., Remember DS apparently claimed he would only risk 20 % of funds. You can use this 20 % with leverage and appear to be trading much larger amounts… the profits (or losses) are being made on those larger amounts. Gains magnified… Losses too can wipe out the deposit very quickly with leverage, though most good traders will have stop losses.
Sadsac/Needy:
I hate when you guys do that! Without divulging the actual name, any hints as to who “PB” is?
DaveSin
as I said yesterday, I really dont want to call names here.
All that I will tell you is that he is white, and he has the same name as his aged lawyer father who is always in the social newspapers.
Here is a link and an excerpt from a credible FOREX source on Net Capital.
From the article…”The regulators are seeking to ensure that FDMs carry enough capital to cover customer funds. In an attempt to achieve that goal, in the past 2 years alone, the NFA has raised the minimum adjusted net capital (ANC) of the financial requirements to $1 million, then to $5 million effective December 21st, 2007. Without seeing the effects of these newly established thresholds, the proposed requirement is now $20 million. If the new requirements go into effect, it may cause a major overhaul of the Forex industry. FDMs which offer the option of leverage higher than 1:100 would be required to maintain an amount double the ANC. This additional requirement raises the threshold as high as $40 million. This means that an FDM would be required to have $40 million dollars safely stowed away and sitting in a bank account.”
Link to whole article: http://weblog.fxstreet.com/2008/03/us-forex—a-mo.html
DaveSin — I believe “jfkpost” did a good job explaining leveraged position on FOREX trading as well as the U$100MM trade example I used. If you are still in need of further explanation, I would be more than happy to post a simplified [layman’s] version.
I also do not want to bombard this blog with FOREX related topics as most of you are really here for information on Jamaican investment schemes. I know the owner of the blog would appreciate that.
@PIPSologist. If you want to submit articles you can e-mail hyipmyths [at] yahoo [dot] com.
We are open to that we will even create a new section “Forex” So you can post your articles..
@Users
a) If we can avoid calling names all the better.. we have no money for legal problems.
b)Please see today’s post “Man, Mother and a Ponzi”
https://investforlife.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/man-mother-and-a-ponzi/
Unlike the Futures market, the FOREX brokers will not let your account go negative. They will issue a margin call for you to fund your account when you are getting low; and if you do not fund the account, they will close out your position with or without a stop loss.
DaveSin – am relatively new here so will follow the lead of Needy on this one. From me….Paul Bunion for now…lol….. sorry just being careful. Relax, buy some KFC, it will all come out soon I am sure.
Gleaner editorial today: http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080722/cleisure/cleisure1.html
This is a day late and a dollar short. It is also stupidly going to confuse the public. Someone please explain to the Gleaner that “systemic” is not the same as “sectoral”. If all the fx scams collapse at the same time, it is a sector-wide problem, not a systemic problem. The term “systemic” is reserved for the entire economic/financial system of a country.
I recant the moving statement to TCI. I was probably mis-informed or the clan mis-represented !! You know some people like the lime-light !! It sweet when you in the mix but sour when you crash and are left all alone. 🙂
I would be more than happy to post FOREX specific topics in a new section if your members would utilize the information.
How many of you would use this information? And, how many FOREX traders are on this blog? Maybe there are enough of us here on the blog to start a vibrant collaborative FOREX section.
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Knowledge is power!!!
We all cannot be traders, but the more you know about the discipline, the harder it is to get ripped off.
Davesin PB is PB. Him father name CB. Big JLP people that make nuff money out of Olint.
Other big JLP OLint investors name V and R.Yes JR
PiP Sologist
I would be glad if someone taught me how to fish, and who knows maybe the blog might evlove into one where currency traders big & small, novice and pros can come to and express their concerns etc.
In all the major US cities there are forex groups that regularly meet and have discussions.
As I keep saying, people should use this Olint experience as one of being taught how to fish.
They have made a lot of ppl interested in FX trading, Many of these ppl were too lazy to practice it themsleves, prefering to collect their interest monthly.
Well now is the time to start doing it for yourselves
DontGiveAdamn
so are you cursing the men because they invested in Olint?
they have done nothing wrong, have they?
People from all walks of life have invested in AIS’s , so why the animosity?
needy where ithe animosity? How me to vex with them. I invest in Olint too and still behind them. Davesin I tell you who PB is and they censor it. Seems like they dont want all truth out but it is ok to call up David Smith name and say all kinds of things about the man.
It really makes me wonder how you just jump and accuse me of cursing them, when all I do is make a statement. What , I threw a stone and the pig that got hit squealing out? Sorry boss.
DONTGIVEADAMN,
i know enough to confirm the pb story. i’ve heard whispers of v as in dv and also jr. not a hundred % sure. also heard tha as, or the man of the yard was an O faithfull.
but as needy says, why curse them? they only did what many other persons did, they took advantage of something they probably thought was real.
if blame is to be assigned to them, then we would have to assume that they knew of the scam and willingly participated at the top end to take advantage of those who would follow. i have no evidence of that and so i’ll not make that conclusion.
look, we’ve all come across highly intelligent persons, wharton, harvard bus school grads(yes i know 3 such persons, personally..there may be many more) who were taken in by this scheme. i’ve heard them express their beliefs in the credibility and sustainabilty of the O and so exposed themselves big time.
i would not now acuse them of being a part of a plot to seperate poor people from their money.
Anyway PB was instrumental in David’s relocation and establishing contacts in TCI. Fact.
Is PB of any real help now? I hope so because him b@ck$ide suppose to be exposed now and everybody cant just take a hands off approach.
DONTGIVEADAMN:
I personally did not see any animosity! Who censored it? On this Blog? There is no crime to mention someone’s name on a blog!
dontgiveadamn
you have it wrong, aint no pig squealing here.
when you start saying BIg Men, JLP men made a lot of money off Olint. that sounds like animosity to me.
I know that these men lost money, just like you and I did.
David Smith put his name out in the public re AICs, so we have all right to call his name here
PIPSologist:
There is definite need for that information. People need to understand what they are investing in and need to know what the pitfalls are. Having lived in the fraud capital of the US, it is only prudent that investor’s in FX understand the basic data and how that can lead to better investment decisions!
dontgiveadamn
Actually PB and David had fallen out since about November last year because of differences
He had actually taken all his funds out of Olint.
PB was instrumental in bringing Capital Blu to Jamaica, hence the backlashing against Olint.
The majority of the people that invested in Olint and the other UFOs were naive (maybe even dumb) but most had no criminal intent. Most were naive to think that all these clubs which refused to be regulated, refused to provide independently audited statements from reputable CPAs or firms and did not disclose the fees they charged were not ponzi scams.
I just find it appalling that so many Jcans lack basic common sense. Look if some guy came to me and told me he had a fantastic investment opportunity for me… paying 100 % per month… he had discovered a way to mine gold on the moon and return it to earth… If he was providing financial statements from reputable firms, disclosed his fees and agreed to be regulated… I would have sooner given my money to that guy than any of these UFO clubs.
Needy:
We have all heard the rumour that a I$$a withdrew large sums (of the order of $300 Million) late last year. If true, is it possible he got more than he should…due to poor accounting that is? If so, how many “Big” investors were in that position?
needy,
i didn’t know that. if true then the plot thickens. hence why mark wignall went after capital blu with such venomous rage. mark wignall himself has some explaining to do, but thats another story.
Bwoy Needy, I’m surprise no one has outed you yet? You seem to me an “integral” player…based on your knowledge base. No wonder the other bus (which will remain nameless-linkwise) wants to kidnap you! 🙂
Jon I am not cursing anybody. I dont know how long you been following these dudes that make this site . They make it sound like is only idiotic thiefing people who dont know REAL INVESTMENTS that invest in Olint . I glad to see you say the backgrounds of some of the investors and to read hermes posts on why people of different backgrounds choose to invest in Olint. I am not cursing PB and others. I just want to know if they jump ship.
@Janice–#2, on July 21st, 2008 at 11:48 pm Said:
“Just talk to source related to david, good things a come! Our savior is going to give us what is owed.”
That is just cruel.
Needy:
Here is the link to the “other” Bus (ours is a Train, therirs is the #4/5 Bus). But don’t stay too long over there!
http://invest4life.wordpress.com/investment-clubs-2/
What is the relevance of those names to the discussions? are they relevant to the issues did those persons publicly endorse OLINT?
I far as know no. There is no need to start calling the names of persons who have invested in OLINT…
If it is relevant I will allow it, but to just start calling persons names of those who have not stated or taken a public position OLINT or other UFOs, I do not believe is right.
This blog is already been closely watched. To irresponsibly start calling persons names is not the way to go.
The substance of the arguments will not be changed, just avoid the unnecessary name calling.
InvestForLife:
If we remove the party affliation will that “change the course”? 🙂 Sorry, the name calling thing.
InvestforLife you are totally correct. Here you have an investor just like these prominent guys… he is using a nick… why did he not post under his real name? And he is giving out the actual names of alleged fellow investors? Use your real name on the blog too if you think it should be Ok.
@DaveSin…
Call Errol Ennis’s name, he took a public position, Call Audley Shaw’s name, he hinted at his position and He is the Minister of Finance and was spokesperson on Finance.
JLP or PNP it is the principle… ..
From Tito (other Bus):
Interesting tibits….
….”Nothing much to report I’m afraid, DS still on Island, and can confirm that FSC have been enquiring at the local casinos if DS has any credit with them, and how much gambling he was involved with. Can also confirm that $100k bets or whatever you call it were common place.
Can also confirm his big birthday bash earlier this year where a number of jamaican mps were present.”
no sah that argument about ppl withdrawing U$300mill
is nothing but a rumour.
Ppl invested with Olint without questioning their modus operandi, because of decent intelligent people(like me) swearing to the honesty , integrity, and credibility of David.
Everyone knew that there are risks that go with fx trading, but no one expected the man to profile and gamble out the money.
That is why investors are angry.
Davids (so called) integrity was why Olint was considered different from the rest.
Davesin ,
it is going to be almost impossible for me to be outed.
No i was not an integral part.
I am just close to a lot of knowledgeable people, BIG MEN, Turks and D Saviour , himself.
That is why I know so much.
davesin
I cant go over to the bus now,
I am going out shopping with my kids before the malls close
I will go there later .
Hope is replaced by ridiculousness on the other bus.
there strongest proponent , now is saying that David Smith gambling, makes him a better trader
———————–
d_silver_lining Says:
July 22, 2008 at 11:39 am
Thanks for that info Tito!!!
I had a good friend at his Birthday Bash as well…
Guy’s….DS makes some kind of percentage/fees from our $$ invested with him, so if he’s trading and making profits he will be taking his fees…he has also made millions from before our current situation as well….so we need to realize that DS has the right to spend just as we do…casino’s, birthday’s, or whatever he desires…do not bash him for this…this may be his stress relief. Also, this is no secret, anyone who knows DS knows he gambles…that helps build a good strong trader.
Persons were saying all along that he was a Christian, now people are saying, all who knows him, new he was a gambler. He has a strong church following, why did he not put that on the table, why put that people should pray for him.
Gambling makes you into an addict who needs professional help, it does not make you into a good trader
PipSologist, I am on board.
Here are the questions guys:
Despite a cease-and-desist order, Olint was still operating an office in Jamaica…taking in funds and other activities. Right?
Now, the FSC has not had an Executive Director for almost a year. Why?
The courts have ruled that C+ and WW accounts should be closed, yet the Court of Appeals have for months, being been sitting on the account closure decision. It was only this week that they have ruled on the matter and only after being prodded. Why?
I might be wrong, but it appears on the surface that there are some nefarious acts taking place as it concerns Olint and the current administration…do you see where I’m going with this? So, I think it is quite acceptable to call their names!
Kullcull:
Now we know who all the proponents are for legalized casinos in Jamaica. It’s all those FX traders that have taken the MTI course. Can you guess if he was good at gambling as he was at FX Trading? 😦
DaveSin
Why get hung up on the names issue. Investforlife said they do not have money to defend legally. This blog has actually contributed to my keeping my sanity on this thing. Personally I don’t care about names, I care about funds. No matter how many names get mentioned here, unless they can write me a check or send a me a wire, what’s really the point? Were any of these names trading and losing/overstating returns or God forbid, running a ponzi – no. Let’s squash the names and keep the blog, shall we?
Mikki:
YES!
DaveSin: Come on, are you familiar with the JA court system? Cases often take years to wind their way through the system. This one is going faster than normal.
These UFOs started and flourished under the former regime so there is no lack of blame to spread. Did you notice that criminal action against Olint is proceeding in the USA and TCI while most investors are Jcans? Why has there not been criminal action in JA when most victims are Jcans? This is not regime specific. You will likely find many ranking people from both parties involved in these UFOs. The lack of common sense was not party affiliated.
In fairness we have been calling people names without proof, so hard to now invoke no name calling, to some it may seem partisan.
people have called Bill Clarkes name in relation to sexual harassment. where was the proof ?.
so its a cop out to say don’t call names, when that was the order of the day all along. people don’t sue blogs, it gives it ligitimacy when one sues.
for years people have been calling PJ a b@ttym@n, the only time it gained any credibility is when him lick out against it.
this is becoming a distraction from the real issue at hand. let people talk up, thats what this blog is known for, the road of censorship is slippery. it will start out with the best intention, then people get ban for the least little things.
Questions,
1. Just need to get something clear in my head in which jurisdiction are these supopsed ‘oanda’ accounts? I was under the impression that they were NOT in the United States.
2. For the owners/managers of large piggy back funds, for ex. LewFam, F1 and others.. taking into account that th epossibility exists that Mr. Smith COULD be charged for money laundering… do these owners have any cause to be concerned?? (I mean apart from the obvious one being that they comtted to MAX 80% loss, and now are faced with the reality of total loss of their clients money)
3. As far as tax liabilities go.. Is it REALISTIC that the IRS and TAAD (in jamaica) will have access to Olint’s records and thus be able to pursue people that have made withdrawals from olint over the years and not declared this as income?
Hey peeps, from the other bus:
bruk packit Says:
July 22, 2008 at 12:46 pm
OK, just heard that as of yesterday DS intends to try to pay back principal but it will take a very long time…no mention of balance as at end of May. Close friend said he cant do any trading for a while – has to focus on staying out of jail. His attorneys not focusing on victims at this time. Seems to me we are on the right track organizing ourselves to be heard. I know also that they are reading the newspaper. As victims, we need to then express ourselves in the newspapers.
How long is very long?
killcull what is funny is that on the bus that crashed into Olint’s office and started all the problems… you know the one with 4 all over it 🙂 They ban everyone with a different opinion but love to besmirch people’s character with nothing but conspiracy theories… MLC, BC etc… Usually you when you see that kind of name calling like the one today, it is by an escapee from the crashed bus 🙂
kullcull
go to google and enter “blog sued” as a seach term.
TheCynic
#2: The answer is they would only need to be concerned if they were facilitating money launderers… i.e., they knew or should have known that they were facilitating money from money launderers into Olint… Remember as of now the investigation is likely about DS, IL etc money laundering for themselves (not the clients) but as it deepens clients may be implicated too.
#3: In the USA it is not unusual for the IRS to become involved at some point. In JA I am not sure if we have much track record with issues like this and as you know we do not have the most efficient tax collectors in the world… so at this point who can be sure.
Kullcull:
I AGREE 100 %!! I wish I have your eloquence. I have read the blogs associated with my local paper here in Florida and you would not believe what is said on those blogs (run by the newspaper). No one censors those blogs, in fact the editor claims that by doing so, it would undermine the intent of blogging! It’s the most racist things I have ever seen in my life, to the point of being shocked into oblivion!
Davesin dont mind plenty of what you see in the press from the government. Trust me. The govt up to their neck. In fact pass their neck. The former regime stood by quietly and allowed certain things to happen. Fact. Some involved big too. I wont call anymore names. Dont wont anyone sued or ban.But plenty involvement on both sides. Folks I did not come to cause problems just to give some info that was asked. Gone out to see if I can get anywork done on the boat today. Need to fix up so as soon as weather clear up I can go catch some tuna and hopefully some snapper. Catch a whole ton of crabs the other day. WIfe fix a feast . Never had no Red Stripe but it went down well with some ice cold Corona.
@ Mikki
People do not respond to rumours, or blogs, it gives it credibility.
when they ask the trading platform about DS accounts, the banks will never respond to whether he is/is not or anything to do with it. any response,whether positive or negative gives the accusation credibility
David Smiths attempts suicide !!!
I am told this was just report on RJR.
Anyone hear that
DONTGIVEADAMN,
Dont call out the name just use intials or nick names…like MLC is wolf aka leech…be creative..keeps the blog conversation flowing at the same time.
DaveSin blogs can and do set their own standards of what is acceptable. Such as how this blog unlike the #4 blog does not ban people for having different opinions… I do not want to belabor this point because as someone said it is a mere distraction… but would it be Ok for people to start posting that my neighbor John Smith put $20 million in Olint, what an idiot?
Of what relevance would be the use of that person’s name but to try and embarrass the person… because he did not like his neighbor… or to try and embarrass the person(s) because of their political affiliations… you should know from our original blog who DontGiveADamn was and that his strident political affiliation was the driving force… the names were of no relevance to the discussion.
nocotec said: “Why has there not been criminal action in JA when most victims are Jcans? This is not regime specific.”
I don’t think you are right, nocotec. But your question is an excellent one. You need to probe this further.
@Jay. There is no truth that the rumor.
And let me add that if investors are not prepared to go to the police or the FSC they cannot expect any criminal action at all. The courts, for all their failures, are interested in finding the truth, especially when someone’s liberty or life is at stake. Because of that criminal actions do not even start if the evidence is only on paper. This can be enough for civil actions, but for criminal you have got to have people ready to swear on the bible that the paper or email in front of them is the same paper or email DS sent to them.
So, if nobody moves in that direction, DS will not even face questionning by the police in Jamaica.
Didn’t you wonder why police only arrest CH after C+ collapse?
Yummy Tears…
That is a very good point.. When asked about Higgins Warner they said that to the best of their knowledge at the time the had no complaint against Principals in Higgins Warner so they could do nothing.
Bob while you make excellent points… I do not believe the investigation in the USA was triggered by client complaints but more like by the NFA complaint.
Can anyone hazard a guess as to whether the total $ invested in Olint is greater for US investors versus others {Jamaican (residing in Jamaica), Canada, UK, etc.) investors. Which is larger ($):
OUS (outside of US) vs. US.
I will follow-up later as to why the question was asked.
JohnDoe, on July 22nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm Said: …”
That is a very good point.. When asked about Higgins Warner they said that to the best of their knowledge at the time the had no complaint against Principals in Higgins Warner so they could do nothing.”…
I guess running an unregulated scheme in Jamaica is not a crime and hence no action. WOW….Jamaican Police/FSC.
Does anyone think that the embarrasment of uptown people to admit their guillibility to what seems to be an obvious scam, will limit the number of people who step forward in any action against DS.
As with Higgins Warner (everyone who gave Max their money is TRULY embarrassed), will DS evade some of the serious legal action possible in Jamaica?? (US Feds, of course is another matter)
DaveSin: Tough one. I know of a lot of people in the US that sent many $10’s of thousands… but we also here of many “big men” in JA that have a lot of money in Olint… such as friends of the supportive Observer columnist. Hmmm, was going to guess but changed my mind 🙂
Anyone wishing to contact the FCU in TCI please contact them via email at fcutcipd@tciway.tc in this email they should include the following information:
Full personal details
Records of deposits
Encashment History
Amount invested
Contract details
Thank you for your cooperation
Mr A. lends money to Mr B. Time passes and Mr. B fails to pay Mr. A. Mr. A stands on the corner complaining to some friends that Mr. B that has not paid him for months and that him worried that Mr B. run off with the funds.
Nearby the police hear all this discussion. I am no legal mind but unless Mr. A files an official report to the Police about the matter, the police will not lift a finger and do a single thing about it.
Can someone tell me whats up with Ingrid and May Daisy?
Is she involve in the Money Laundering TOO, or becasue she trades on the same platform as DS?
Lawd, some one get her on Nationwide for me, please so that Cliff Can get the truth from Her. today, today.
tci4life,
Is that applicable only to citizens in TCI? Or is that open to residents/citizens of other countries as well?(namely Jamaica, USA, Canada, UK)
JohnDoe: You are correct but in your example even if Mr. A files a complaint with the police, they still will not do anything 🙂
In your example Mr. A has to file a civil lawsuit. It is a breach of contract type matter.
TheCynic
I would advise you not to give any personal information to anyone unless you can verify who this entity is, if this is a ligitimate link to the entity and what the information will be used for.
theCynic: Cannot answer for TCI but I believe it should apply to residents elsewhere. If the guy commits a crime in TCI, it should not matter against whose citizens. Say he was in TCI and ordered a hit on a Jcan citizen in JA,… would it not be a crime in TCI or would the fact that it was not a TCI resident disqualify it as a crime in TCI?
🙂 nocotec: I think we agree. Just Talking and complaining will result in nothing..
http://www.crimestoppers.tc/index.php?id=15
results from a quick google search…
Jay, on July 22nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm Said:
David Smiths attempts suicide !!!
I am told this was just report on RJR.
Anyone hear that
———————————————————————
I have not heard that. plz, someone tell me this isn’t true!
imagine the implications.
Jon,
That report has been dismissed see link
http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/10149/26/
Johndoe:
We definitely agree on that… in other words the usual Jcan model not going to achieve anything. 🙂 Talk, talk but try to organize and hardly anyone will come forward…
phew….couldn’t bear to think of what would follow if that were a reality.
Oh my god peeps, you see this new group on facebook called ‘ENCOURAGEMENT AND FRIENDS OF DAVID SMITH’ – what a crock of sh*t.
After everything that is going on people still believe that b/c he’s a bible-thumper he’s infallible. Come on we back in dark ages or what?
Johndoe/Nocotec
The principals of these schemes if they were to remain in Jamaica will walk, as the local police really (IMHO) does not take financial crimes seriously.
You all know that Jamaicans will call the talk show and may write, but to go before the courts and testify, FORGET IT!!.
The best chance of getting a conviction for these guys is if they are prosecuted by Uncle sam.
As they say ” afta nuh body nuf dead”.
http://maravi.blogspot.com/2008/03/dec-refuses-to-arrest-kaweche.html
http://www.times.co.zm/news/viewnews.cgi?category=4&id=1205308531
jon:
You know DS had much of the money on the I-Trade platform in him and his wife’s name… If him kick the bucket, imagine how hard it will be for investors to get back any of the the little that left…
Not that I believe there is anything much left to spread around.
If some one started up a scheme like David in the US or Canada and open up a bank account he would be asked at he time of opening what would be his source of funds. If he was truthful at the time, I doubt many banks would be interested in the account unless he provided names of club members the principals or directors and his articles of association (or some such document). If he lied about the nature of his business within weeks of his deposits and withdrawal, they would be force to report his activities to the authorities. He would not be notified and legally he cannot be notified. Most banks would have closed his account in short order in my opinion. While the Jamaican laws were just been developed under Omar regarding licensing and who could trade as an investment dealer or hold themselves out as such, I know as a fact that there are still regulations in Jamaica though inadequate should have come to bear on DS. I think the public out cry was so strong in support of DS that even the Bank when it sought to protect it self was scared of the public. Coupled with a week administration plagued by corruption and an imbecilic opposition spokes man on finance there was no political will to do the right thing. The government did try their best though in warning the public. But judging by a lot of the post here there are people who even to this day seem to think there was some logic to DS business model. It would take me an entire university course to explain the nuances of FX trading and finance to show that DS model was flawed. An idea such as leveraging 20% of your money while not exposing the other 80% is nothing but nonsense.
An intelligent person with no knowledge of finance should by logic reason that if making money were that simple and involve such little risk then everyone would be doing it. Additionally, it is highly unlikely that God would place this repository of knowledge only in one person. Which I guess is why people all viewed DS as this Messiah.
The rules and laws are much more develop in North America and the public much more educated and experience so they would not buy into DS activities. His mistake was operating in these jurisdictions. I do not know anything about TCL so I cannot comment on their laws. The joke I always have with folks in Canada is why are you guys only selling this great idea to the West Indian community and especially Jamaicans why don’t you go and sell it to you co-workers white Canadians, Asian Canadians, Indian Canadians. The truth is that they know these folks would just laugh in their face. If a Bank closes your account, the first thing a club member should be doing is requesting an emergency general meeting. An Independent audit of you accounts and a report on your activities and then and only then would they be endorsing your court case against the Bank.
Jay:
Well even I find it hard to be sympathetic to the UFO investors. When they were warned all they did to to cuss people and blame every Tom, Dick, Harry, their puss and dog about how they just bad minded and want to mash up a man trying a thing to help poor people.
With all the out of control crime in JA, it is sure hard to be sympatetic and urge the dedication of resources to the UFO crimes… But then I realize we still have to stop this scourge because it is destructive… See how reports on the blog are that DS started out scamming BOJ and the JA government… but as things go, that was not really crime in JA… See when you ignore crime like that how DS graduate to the big time.
When he was paying the 10% and you all were grinning and licking your fingers, tings did sweet ehh
Well now come the sour … balance of life.
Nothing good last forever
Well I still have hopes to get back sumn.
God bless DS his wife,, mother and his entire family.
The brave may fall ….but never yield.. to babylon wickedness
side note: Powell beat Bolt 9:88 to 9:89
4 fastest times at the meet were from Jamaicans
http://www.iaaf.org/gp08/results/eventCode=3921/sex=M/discCode=100/result.html
Well,
Now the Balco founder will be saying Jamaicans sprinters are on “something”.
what worse they are all locally based lol 🙂
realistiacally If you are owed money by someone and the person asks for time to pay, the sensible thing to do is to give them the time,cause what you really need is your money back.
Now there is no way that DS can even make a move to pay back anyone until his account is audited.
Naturally none of this can be done until the Feds and all the different law enforcement agencies have finished their scrutinising of the files etc.
Suing and all that is a waste of time especially in Jamaican courts.
The only solution available now is to hope that DS is not arrested, or dies.
Wait for the files to be audited, and come to the blog and vent your frustrations.
This might sound silly, but when we willingly give our money to a one man operation, and he is now being investigated by all different type of govts.
We the people just have to wait.
Well said Needy – I agree – as well as it will probally be the hardest thing to do. I am so emotionally drained from this I cannot imagine the drain on D.
needy:
Translating what you said 🙂
When you invest in a ponzi scheme and it crash… any money you never get back is dead. Lawyers and CPA receivers will use up the little left. The only hope in a ponzi scheme is if law enforcement come in before it crash and then they will distribute the money they find.
There has been a lot of talk about the anticipated impact or fall out from the collaspe of Olint, Cashplus, Lewfam, Fi investement, May Daisy to mention a few.
Nocotec indicated that he believes that in general terms the fallout will not be that great as its really a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
Technically I am in agreement with the above, however I wish to diverge slightly on what we are likely to see going forward.
Since the collapse of CashPlus and the non payment of interest payments over the last six months, there has been a noticeably increase in drugs (mainly ganja) being shipped out of the country.
I expect to see even more drugs being shipped and intercepted as the money flow tightens.
I also expect to see more tension between the major players in the banking sector and its clients as lots of loans where taken, second mortgages were taken out and the bank will seek to go after these to recover the loans.
I expect relationships between persons to get increasingly rocky as persons seek to blame others for allowing them to join these schemes resulting in loss of money, and you know how it goes in Jamaica. Its only takes a simple disagreement for you to end up dead.
From the point of investing eg stock market etc, I expect that their will be great apprehension of folks to invest as they become more risk averse now that they have lost very heavily.
How will all this affect, growth targets, inflation and tax collection is yet to be seen, however with less disposable income I expect a negative impact of all the above.
It must also be noted that most of the major players (in the AIS) have substantial portions of their funds out of the country, and hence I expects that those who profited heavily will have been busy converting to US$ and moving it offshore, leading to another run on the dollars.
Thats my view.
Any comments:
We know the Olint and LewFam connection, but why is there a sudden linking by FSC???????
http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=2812
Texting
all right all right we hear you made a bag of money !
Did it ever occur to to you that a lot of people like those who joined under a year ago who have never seen a cent as by the time they were going to recover principal Monies stop flowing
(Its not just the greedy who were compounding as you put it ) and so what if persons were compounding towards a particular goal ?
And who is more greedy those who were compounding or you who get so much already and still want more ?
Personally i hope authorities will ensure people like you are legally bound to make a restitution to of your ” gains” (there have been legal precedents for this )
So stop gloating
Good News !!!!!!!!!
Money is there to pay out …….not pay off 🙂
Jay
I agree generally with your take. But remember as with C+ which took about 6 months for the crash to be official… With Olint it took close to 7 months. The after effect in these cases is quite different from a sudden crash. Most investors have been adjusting for 6 months plus to no money.
Those that were rolling over were not using the money, though some may have been depending on it for a planned event. Essentially I am saying that when combined with the fact most of the money already went back to investors and that investors have been adjusting to the reality of no money for 6 plus months… most of the fallout has already happened.
However at the individual levels your points are very valid.
DaveSin:
It is not a sudden linking. The original FSC raid was against both Olint and Lewfam (I believe they shared office space). The Cease and Desist order was against both.
Jay
Are you know saying that the poor hardworking decent (albeit foolish )people who lost thier money in CashPlus etal have now become drug smugglers ???
Dont you get it You guys were right all along
AIS are bad!!! for the country
But that now is just plain propoganda overkill
nocotec re your 12.56pm post
Yes, I agree with you about uncle sam’s investigation. That would also be true of an AML investigation in Jamaica. The agency for that is FID. Those folks act in great secrecy so I don’t want to say that nothing is going on there (although I think nothing is going on there). They scored a good one, though, with the guy who was in the drop pan scam a couple years ago. What was his name? Three Hand Chan or some such. Remember he used to be in the drop pan advertisements?
Blogkiller
Why is it inconceivable to believe someone made money out of Olint. ? lol u call it gloating lol . Is like this place mek to only post bad news
Just to clarify, the man was convicted or pleaded guilty of some AML offence but I’m not sure if it was a drop pan scam or just that the guy was famous for being three hand chan in the drop pan ads.
My opinion only:
You know what I have noticed in all of this. Most if not all lack any real talent to create revenue in the US$1 billion per year range.
So most are nickle a dime local millionaires = to the lowest level of a US millionaire (US$1-3 million) which roughly works out to 2 to 3 homes built for nothing using cheap labour and obtaining a market value of JM$20 million each.
Whether is drugs got you your nickel and dime or straight years of selling used cars among other things, one thing for sure is none of these investors had the talent, the brains, the guts, or the intelligence to create a business of their own that could earn revenues of US$ 100 million much less US$1 billion per year.
So these investment clubs were the next bet thing. Why complain? You invested and you either benefited or lost.
Stop crying over spilled milk.
DaveSin, on July 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 pm Said:
“I guess running an unregulated scheme in Jamaica is not a crime and hence no action. WOW….Jamaican Police/FSC.”
Running an unregulated scheme in contravention of the securities act is a serious crime in Jamaica. That is what the law itself says. Let’s look at action, because we know that speaks louder than words.
FSC declares Olint and Lewfam are acting illegally and must get a license.
Olint goes to TCI; investors cheer and claim FSC in pocket of the other PB and carry on the party, in fact crank it up a few notches.
What happened next? Can anyone help us? Did FSC do anything else? If not, why not? If yes, what did they do? Why did the police do nothing to Olint then? Were there any complainants ready to come forward but were suppressed by FSC or police? Maybe Cliff Hughes can dig this one out.
DaveSin: No sudden link
1. They occupied effectively the same office space when the FSC raided in March 2006
2. They went to court jointly to fight the FSC cease and desist…in December 2007
http://jamaicagleaner.com/gleaner/20071226/lead/lead3.html
Very Linked.
Bob
Though I do not believe the FSC has acted in a timely fashion or done all it could… However in fairness to them… The applicable JA securities law (unlike say the 1934 Securities act in the USA) are new and have not been tested in the courts… When they acted Olint went to court and the case is still pending final appeal (Olint has been losing)… This has somewhat tied their hands pending final outcome.
As a side note:
Did you guys realize that in Jamaica, more people are “passive” investors in drug trafficking than in the actual trafficking itself? I bet you guys did not know that! Its probably a surer bet than Olint/C+. Think and Check.
That apply to all persons who invested with Olint TCI, Olint and TCIFX traders.
the email can be verify at http://www.crimestoppers.tc under the tab Financial Crime
JohnDoe:
The point was trying to make indirectly, is that its appear that on-going investigation (might) directly involved LewFam.
@kingstonchronicle: “So these investment clubs were the next bet thing. Why complain? You invested and you either benefited or lost.”
If you believe that many of he schemes were not a scams but legitimate businesses, your statement could be seen as fair comment.
However Cash Plus was PONZI straight up, Mininvestment, Higgins Warner, OLINT (sad drama still playing out), among others.. (Jay can produce the list) fell under the heading SCAMs if not under the sub-heading PONZI.
Have you read “Man, Mother and PONZI”?
If people have no problem being party to the “financial rape” of their mothers then what can say. However, for me that is a big issue.
It is absurd to thnk that smuggling activities have increased because of the AIS crash.
That is like Nationwide saying yesterday that
there is a donkey meat for guns ring between Jamaica and Haiti.
Does this sound familiar?
ym11011 Says:
July 22, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Why can’t lawyers be paid? The money for Investors are in millions…lawyers aren’t!! Do we want our $$ back? Pay the lawyers then…
Im not saying that you should have lawyers but forget about your money its gone, You think these lawyers are even close to being cheap. They are the definition of expensive. Listen Olint could have evaded this situation from long time. Hand they at least paid out some peoples encashment.
How exactly are the lawyers being paid, with IOU’s??? no cash from a bank account. That was either wired to them or written to a check. So if the lawyers got a check or wire to defend David, why were all these issues to wire and transfer money to us a problem us investors yet everything is fine and dandy when it comes to people who are hired to save him buttocks.
Then
d_silver_lining Says:
July 22, 2008 at 4:31 pm
who is YM11011?? Why even ask such a open ended question??
YM11011 think you’re on the wrong bus hahahahahahahahah !!!
One Stop Drivah!! leggo dis passenger……………
We all know whats going to happen to ym11011 !!!!! I guess we will have a new passenger on our train.
needy, on July 22nd, 2008 at 3:46 pm Said: …”It is absurd to thnk that smuggling activities have increased because of the AIS crash.
That is like Nationwide saying yesterday that
there is a donkey meat for guns ring between Jamaica and Haiti…”…
Needy, do you mean like this:
http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/10120/26/
Needy:
O.K..O.K..O.K. fi get bout the drug thing…
Since the crash of all these UFOs, there have been a sharp increase in the consumption of Donkey meat in Jamaica….. 😦
Needy, I agree.
Over Analyzing turns into tabloid gossip
exactly Dave Sin
I tell yuh dont believe everything that you hear in the news.
Needy:
What you think happen to all that donkey meat? Is there anyone from the Old Habor area on this blog can tell me if there is a difference in taste between donkey meat and beef? Does it look the same? Do you think we can fool the Haitains them (give them beef for guns)?
I understand there are a lots of Haitains living in Jamaica now…I wonder if they are the one killing the donkeys?
Since the crash of all these UFOs, there have been a sharp increase in the consumption of Donkey meat in Jamaica
now Dave Sin .
that seems logical,
can you imagine the uproar that would have happened if RJR had said that?
Yet we dissing the Haitians.
Davesin, trust me you are wasting your time.
You are in the wrong Bizniz
Chris Rock nuh have nothing over yuh
Needy 🙂 🙂
Sin
sexist and xeno·phobic a class Act !!!!
Needy it was just a joke thing. It was RJR that stated the donkey-meat-for-gun thing.
I am going out on the road again, and since we are having a lightedhearted moment now, I will give you all some advice
If you want to know who your best friend really is.
Lock your wife/girlfriend(husband/boyfriend) and your dog into the trunk of your car for one hour.
When you open the trunk after one hour, the one who is happy to see you is really your best friend.
Dave Sin.
I know that, but your enquiring if we could trick the Haitians and give them beef for guns,
is really a classic.
Chris Rock nuh have nutthen on yuh Dave Sin.
Blogkiller:
What’s wrong with you? You like to pick on the weaker among us. You are so elitist and condescending in your remarks. It’s amazing how rich people like you like to pick on poor people like me. You make your millions off Olint and now you start look down on me. You should be ashamed of yourself. 😦
Needy….what kinka joke that? You are so sexist and xenophobic. Blogkiller will not tolerate those type of jokes…do you know what that big word mean (xenophobic)?
Davesin
What ym11011 does not realize is that people such as DS always have a stash put away for eventualities such as he is facing. Either in a tax haven or cash in a safety deposit box. Additionally, he can have a in trust account(s) for his kids or with a lawyer for safekeeping. Despite all DS supporters continuous belief in him he knows his true self. He saw this coming and I am sure he planned for it.
This reminds me of a poem
THE MAN IN THE GLASS
When your get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.
For it isn’t you father or mother or wife,
Whose judgment upon you must pass
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one looking back from the glass.
Some people might think you’re a straight-shooting chum,
And call you a wonderful guy
But the man in the glass says you’re only a bum
If you can’t look him straight in the eye.
He’s the fellow to please, never mind the rest
For he’s with you clear to the end
And you’ve passed your most dangerous test
If the guy in the glass is your friend.
You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass!!
We have to befair here,a certain bank with Branch in Linstead was found laundering money for one of the recently extradited.What sanctions were taken against this bank locally and internationally?
winston niney:
The case against the bank related to that individual is pending in the courts. They have not gotten away with. What I cannot understand is how the people at the head office did not see these extremely large deposits…they are claiming it was done by a rogue teller at that branch. Really?
Here is the story.
NCB charged with breaches of Money Laundering Act
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20070208T230000-0500_118918_OBS_NCB_CHARGED_WITH_BREACHES_OF_MONEY_LAUNDERING_ACT.asp
This in part explains why NCB has stepped up their “know your customer” and are doing every to make sure that no one can say the NCB aided and abetting fraudulent activities or money laundering..
Listen been reading and following….those that are laughing because they got out before the crash….dont get too comfy as yet……remember Tax evasion and Audley Shaw is on a drive this year to collect.
Also if money laudering is involved….there is a big possibility that investors might not get back their monies. And that big country involved I wonder to what extent????with so much shibbles happening in that country they might be in need of dire cash…..dont be too surprise if they try to hold on to what they can.
Overall not a bright picture and indeed a sad story.
winston niney
You are too desperate to still blame NCB for something. They were charge with breaches and that made the news internationally and has affected the Bank. The case is pending. When the same NCB got wind of DS activities and tried to protect themselves and club members what was the response.
observer
Audley in my opinion is a clown and I think that is how I believe the international Banking community view him. His hand is not clean in helping to stir up dispute when the authorities tried to rein in OLINT and others.
winston niney
You are too desperate to still blame NCB for something. They were charged with breaches of the Money Laundering Act and that made the news internationally and has affected the Bank. The case is pending. When the same NCB got wind of DS activities and tried to protect themselves and club members what was the response.
observer
Audley in my opinion is a clown and I think that is how I believe the international Banking community view him. His hand is not clean in helping to stir up dispute when the authorities tried to rein in OLINT and others.
i heard that lewfam still collecting money from folks…..anyone can verify
Banker, on July 22nd, 2008 at 5:24 pm Said: ….”Audley in my opinion is a clown and I think that is how I believe the international Banking community view him. His hand is not clean in helping to stir up dispute when the authorities tried to rein in OLINT and others.”….
I happen to agree with everything you said!!!! I don’t know if you read some of the earlier post today where I implied that there are some “undeclare” things going on in the background between this government and Olint (see debate about using people’s name on the blog).
I happen to believe that Shaw is dumb. That is why the PM has that guy Wehby running the show…Shaw is just a figure head.
Not to mention his history of running a series of failed businesses. If he could not run a gas station or hardware business, why in the world do you expect him to run the finance arm of the country. He also has a history of issuing numerous bad checks…in fact, issuing bounced checks to cover bounced checks. In fact, it is reported that people are going around him and going directly to Wehby for decisions.
Davesin
I will not hold his poor record of accomplishment at business against him as many successful entrepreneurs today failed several times before they were successful at one endeavor. But he engaged in so much pompous talk at times just in the name of opposition that he sullied the country’s name with investors. Just out of a desperate need for power. I hope no one think for a moment that I am against the JLP because nothing could be further from the truth. However, living and working abroad in the financial sector I have come to see how politicians with their misplace words can really affect the country. Sadly, Clive Mullings who I think is a little better than Audley was not much better. I am sure now that they are in power they should be hearing things to let them rue some of the remarks they made. Take for example Mirant – There were talks in Jamaica of how a they made money in JA to get out of bankruptcy. What nonsense! Any fool can go to there web page and see that Ja did not even represent I think 2% of their world wide revenue. When a Mirant executive came there and explain that very soon people will not be able to afford electricity instead of listening to him the media and politician made light of his remark. Now with oil at $126 a barrel down from above $140 I hope they see what he feared and warn us about. I don’t want to get off on a rant to explain more so let us leave it there.
I dont come to cause no trouble again but I will endorse the opinion that Audley Shaw dont have no business in the position of Finance Minister. He dont have a clue. The post bigger than him. He is a back room researcher . Fact. Lousy businessman. Fact. Someway somehow have something going on with Olint. Through statements he made indirectly influence many to join Olint last half of 07. Fact. Him cant distance himself. Audley your hands sticky from the sugar.
catd
In a post a couple days back I said some club(s) were soliciting money and folks should find something else to do with their money, You are correct, at least up to very very recently.
Those on this blog who argue or urge that investors should not take legal action and should wait and see are defeatists. Just because lawyers and accountants will cost a lot of money is no reason that you should not get professional help to defend your interests. As a matter of practice, it very much makes a difference who makes the first move in an insolvency proceeding. There can be real advantages to having the initiative. And you will be quite amazed at the decisions that can be legitimately taken in a court of law that are totally against your interest but which would have been different if only your position had been represented to the court.
It is also dangerous to generalise about the costs of proceeding. This can easily lead you into accepting a do nothing position. I keep urging investors to not make a decision about legal action until after they have received legal advice. DO NOT WAIT!!!
Bob what type of proceedings are you going to have against a man whose documentations and monies are all ceased or frozen?
Needy
Well Only a lawyer can tell you
Well i am sure that there are lawyers who have monies with Olint ask around the city nuh.
yes janice but we cant really take DS word too tough now.
All the other AIS them tell we the same “soon come” argument.
How the blog so slow tonight?
blog slow because CH gave the story a break today. PM’s “crime plan” took the spotlight.
Wonder if cliff is savoing something for tomorrow’s cycle.
the DCP in the tci was to have updated thme on the status of the investigation late this evening. i’ve heard nothing. has anyone heard anything?
needy
In this type of work, the details are very important. Let me give you an example. Did anybody notice that the FSC cease and desist orders were against DS, Olint Corp, Lewfam, Neil Lewis and a number of other individuals as well as a company called, I think, Overseas Locket International based in Panama? Not all of these persons or entities were in the famous appeal against the decision. In particular, the Panama company did not appeal. Maybe DS lawyers left it out for a reason like it wasn’t relevant or something (I can’t think why myself, but just being generous). Or maybe they left it out because they knew that it would harm their case.
That decision could have been a good one. To know why, you have to get professional advice.
It’s also possible in the current TCI or DOJ cases that there are entities whose assets could be frozen, but there is no “probable cause” (this is the american phrase) or TCI and DOJ just don’t know about it at the moment. These same entities may be easily accessible and recognisable to anyone who understands how Jamaica works or is able to do a search at the Companies Office here.
This is just an example of the kind of detail that can prove to be crucial to your interests. You need to get professional advice to protect your interests. What do you think DS and TCI and DOJ are doing?
I keep saying this but nobody seems to be taking it on. I should really listen to the people who are saying that jamaicans are passive. We talk so tuff, but when it comes to action we just wait and see (and chat).
needy
To answer your question more directly, the proceedings could be to assert a claim against DS and the frozen assets. At this time we are all just speculating as to what will happen to the frozen assets. We don’t even know for sure which assets are frozen or what the various orders say.
Some investors are assuming that DS and Olint “owe” them their money. Putting aside emotions, a legal question is “is this money owed to them or is their claim more akin to an equity interest?”. Another question is “is the money owed by DS and Olint or is it owed by some other entity?” Before everyone jump on me, I am talking lawyer points here and that is what counts in court.. Here’s an example: and God said “let there be light”. When challenged in court by a club member as to why there was also darkness half the time, attorneys for the Lord argued “it depends on what “be” means …” and proceeded to show that the petitioner was a greedy ingrate and should burn in hell for eternity.
Bob you are perfectly right about legal counsel. I am trying to get folks to go that route but no one seems to care. Maybe they are wishfully thinking all this will disappear and Ds will be able to pay, or they are ashamed that they got conned or they are afraid of retribution or threats by the olint supporters. Not sure of the state of mind of most folks but I need several folks to help cover costs as well as strength in numbers. But no-one seems to care.
I want to highlight some recent changes that have taken place on a number of the feeder clubs (to Olint) website.
For example this one FX Millionaire club
http://www.fxmillionaireclub.net/index.php?sec=1
They had up a few weeks ago listed Olint as one of their top traders, its now missing from the website.
However just look the webpage, designed with expensive looking cars, yatchs, houses etc.
BTW they are located in TCI.
Who are the principals ? Hmm
If you sent me an email to olint_investors ** @ ** yahoo ** . ** com, please check you Inbox or spam folder and try to get back to me today.
Title of email was Olint Follow up
Next we move to Antigua,
They have not yet made any changes to their website as it still list Olint as one of thier main traders.
Anyone from this club in the house.
http://www.uwinantigua.com/aboutUs.php
Jay
1. Send me a list of them
One “Ingrid Riley” stated on the Olint Support On FaceBook
Just got an email saying that
1. The site https://investforlife.wordpress.com/about/ is really a propaganda tool done up members of LeeChin’s camp to discredit not just Olint but other forex clubs. They are digging and checking IP addresses to find leads as to who’s behind this anonymously written site.
2. Fxstreet.com has a message board and this person call FX Scholar is all over it again propogandising anti-Olint stuff on there too.
You know I always knew the Net was powerful in building up and taking down brands, products, people and things….but seeing it like this…welll damn!
It’s interesting to be a spectator to all of this. Maybe I can write a book in about a year’s time.
bob
one of the most difficult things to do is to organise a group of people.
Just try and put a 6 a side team together to go and play a corner league match.
Do you notice that In CP certain individuals like Alex Haber and the lawyer David Rowe from Miami, filed their own personal suits.
An individual whose name I do not remember filed a suit with Ricky Azan as well.
This is what has to be done.
When you start forming an organisation, people have too much different issues.
You have to understand, that there are a lot of different sentiments that clubmemeber have,
Some are still hoping and would like to wait it out.
Others have moved on, and are dealing with their pressing problems of how they are going to survive.
Some have just said “mi know say a risk mi did a tek F@#k IT” and moved on.
Others want their pound of flesh NOW
Any action is going to have to be an individual action.
Four people driving cannot even decide what type of food they want to eat much less.
The problem for most regular folk is that they do not have the money to retain a lawyer. You cannot under-estmate how much of a hurdle this is for people to clear.
A lawyer in the US, for example, will bill upfront per hour for a case like this. The possibility of a getting a lawyer to go on a contingency basis is slim particularly when it is unclear how much assets are involved, whether at the end of the day some court appointed receiver or law enforcement agency will divvy up assets on “a cents on the dollar” basis pro rata. It is even more slim if the amount money being claimed by the club member in question is small compared to the fees the lawyer will rack up over the time period to research, discover, depose, litigate, appeal or settle
If anyone can come up with a sensible approach to limiting the upfront and on-going cost of hiring a lawyer, or knows a law firm that will approach this on a contingency basis, then that will be more helpful than merely touting a one size fits all approach of just “go get a lawyer”.
In these circumstances the best option is to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities. Forget embarrassment, delusions and any belief that somehow the guys that dug the hole can climb back out by trading their way up.
If you help law enforcement by providing as much pertinent information as possible you will be getting free and possibly very competent legal help… The DA’s (district attorney) office in the USA is normally very competent… I do not know the experience of he TCI folks but it cannot hurt to assist them as much as possible…
Forget your other thought processes and come to grips with what has happened. If the guy has committed a crime assist law enforcement to convict him. They will return money found to investors after things like any taxes due are paid. It is sure a good way to get usually experienced, competent and free legal help.
Needy–good comment
It depends on level of education and experience. 100 people of a certain level can move in peaceful unison and bring down mountains…yes literally bring down mountains! e.g. coal mining
Now this is not as common in Ja mainly because of our history and stage of development and relative age. Yes humans are equal but societies are not. Some societies are ADVANCED to such as in Jamaica. No use getting emotional and insecure about this as an individual. It is simply fact.
It is unclear whether US law enforcement & DA’s are there to assist the victim, or there to simply prosecute and convict the criminal. These are two different agendas.
It is unclear whether the USDOJ will make the claim that assets have been forfeited, which would make them an enemy of the victim. Inotherwords, if the USDOJ makes the determination that OLINT did receive criminal property, and makes the case that because of the comingling of funds, to draw the line between clean and dirty is virtually impossible and as such all assets are now the property of the US. In that case, helping law enforcement and the DA will only help them in taking your legitimate money away from you.
If anyone has the legal knowledge to confirm whether or not the USDOJ has the authority to forfeit all assets in a money laundering case, even those that include the clean legitimate funds of innocent victims, then please speak to this to clarify. It is very important to know what we are dealing with here.
Also, getting a lawyer usually involves tailor-made legal advice. I am not sure if the USDOJ will have the time, the inclination or the clearance to dispense personal legal advice. But it is certainly food for thought.
Lastly, those who have not had their taxes filed accurately might be reluctant to expose their situation to law enforcement via a close working relationship and process of voluntary full disclosure
For all those people saying that investing in Olint was a big risk YES I agree, HOWEVER:
1) Risk is one thing – if indeed DS had done a series of bad trades followed by frantic trading to get make the money back but in the end it crashed and no one is left with anything – that is one thing. That risk is one that everyone putting in their money could understand however difficult to swallow.
BUT:
2) It is quiet another to have no transparency of records, no proof of profit, no proof of actual trading, complete SILENCE as to where the money is and what happened to it. No due diligence which leads to more scrutiny from authorities thus allegations of money laundering etc. Poor communication, sucky customer service (i don’t think he knows what that is). And then to add salt to the wound instead of him keeping a relatively low profile he’s living it up like Paris Hilton.
I’m sure no one would knowingly sign up to #2 if they knew that was what they were getting.
I can sign up to #1 and lose it all if forex trading was what he was doing, if he wasn’t trading then that’s fraud, plain and simple.
Truth:
I think folks are consistently mixing up the Money Laundering (ML) thing. If you notice the accounts and persons being investigated by the US DOJ are those listed in the NFA complaint against I-Trade. The nature of the transactions on I-Trade and the failure of I-Trade to report them as Suspicious Transactions (SARs) makes it appear as if these parties were involved in ML.
The initial investigation is to determine if DS was laundering money for himself. Then it will be if he was knowingly (or should have known) laundering for someone else… then if some clients were using Olint to launder (unknowing to Olint and DS).
If DS took clients money and laundered it for himself (to avoid paying taxes etc) then the DOJ will return that money to his clients. The money would be seized in the cases where DS was say trafficking drugs and was laundering his own money. If any clients are found to have been laundering money then that money would be seized.
Look this is not going to be quick or easy. When people follow the nonsense about investing “what you can afford to lose” and “invest” their hard earned money into schemes that provide no audited statements while making claims of high returns… this is the typical end they can expect.
If you “invest” in these schemes the scammer will use your money to get high powered lawyers while most will not be able to afford a lawyer. I gave the best solution for such folks, in fact everyone… Cooperate with law enforcement to convict the guy and locate his funds so that they can return what is left to investors. If you compounded your problems by not paying taxes… well you made multiple mistakes.
We are dealing with real life here. Do stupid things and or listen to and follow stupid people while cursing those that say different and there is no Mommy to just kiss it and make it better. It is usually not easy to extricate oneself from stupid decisions.
Those that can afford lawyers may want to at least consult a lawyer but at this point everyone should help law enforcement. Remember that in most situations a criminal case will usually supersede any civil case.
needy, Truth, sirac, nocotec
Those are very sound and valid points.
To the man who can even think about tax avoidance, however, getting a lawyer is a simple phone call and a half hour appointment and, yes, a few dollars.
To the man with no money, I agree that cooperation with law enforcement is a good strategy, but clearly not for all or even most.
Still, it is pretty remarkable, even allowing for Jamaica’s tortured history and informa fi ded culture, that no one is going to the local authorities on this. I am worried that one result will be that even though jamaican authorities started the fight against Olint, et al, they will not be there at the end when it counts. This could matter when it comes to looking after Jamaican victims.
Also, how come there are no individuals so far who are starting court action in Jamaica?
Guys,
Just because noone is speaking up on the blog about going to law enforcement.. DO NOT feel that people are just sitting down twiddling their thumbs…
People have their backs against the wall now. At the very least people are consulting family lawyers/friends and seeking to do whatever they can to help TCI law enforcement. Unfortunately I’m not aware of the Jamaican authorities doing much at this point. (that could just be my ignorance though)
nocotec, you went off on a soapbox without really intelligently dealing with the issues. But to each his own.
That’s the problem. Jamaican law enforcement has been stuck since 2006 with respect to Olint and Lewfam because no one is prepared to come forward. Well …??!!!
I’ll say it again, DS is safe in jamaica and, after 5 or 10 years will run for parliament and get in. What are we waiting for, for his lawyers in TCI to claim that the TCI court is biased and, “look! the majority of investors are in Jamaica and they aren’t complaining”. And then they will quote the #4 bus and facebook to show how much confidence there is in the man. this will be used to support an argument that someone in Turks took set against DS and has bent the system against him, just like what happened in JA.
Bob,
For some reason, pure speculation, i strongly doubt that is the route it will go this time. Maybe it is my youthful thinking (in my 20s), but if there is (and it APPEARS there is) any proof of wrong doing, I think Jamaican people will be more than willing to do whatever it takes to recover any funds, and to ensure that Mr. Smith gets what he deserves. Unlike with C+ where it was mainly middle and lower class people, there are FAR more middle, and upper class people in Olint who have much more than a ‘likkle money fi lose’ invested.
Truth:
Sorry but this has been the attitude with UFO investors why they are now in this position. I did intelligently deal with the issues but it is not what you want to hear, so your response is I did not deal with the issues… followed by ignoring the response… Been on these blogs a while… it is why the # 4 blog flourished… there would now be a chorus of “tek weh yuself”. UFO investors want a Mommy to kiss them and say things are OK or will be OK honey.
I re-read your posts… the only issue I did not deal directly with was a minor one… Will the US DOJ have the time etc to dispense personal legal advice? Law enforcement does not dispense personal legal advice. They may make suggestions as to what you should do (such as talk to an attorney) but personal legal advice is not the role of law enforcement.
the Cynic
I do hope you are right. But I think it is more likely that embarrassment will ultimately restrain the middle and upper classes. What they want is for someone else to carry the fight. People also have skeletons to hide (who doesn’t?) and when you litigate you expose yourself to the risk that the other side will go after your skeletons. Court fighting in Jamaica is not for the faint of heart.
The other course, going to law enforcement and helping them, is also unlikely because of the same risk of embarrassment.
No, the complainants in this case are going to be more humble folk who still think the system has something to offer them. How many of them are there anymore (both humble and still believing that the system can help them)? And from amongst that rare breed, how many were dumb or ethically corrupted enough to “invest” in these schemes? That number is vanishingly small.
So, DS will not serve a day in prison in jamaica and will not be held to account in a court of law in jamaica.
i am not being fatalistic. It is possible for this fate to be changed, but it will take a courageous set of individuals.
The other possible source of energy in this matter would be the high political directorate. Well, we all know the position of one-third, so forget that.
By the way, this is why the country is going down on the down escalator (sorry Michael).
Nocotec, I am not in a debate with you. I was simply asking some informative questions that can help people on a practical level with regards to getting legal help. I was not even taking a hard position but in fact was merely raising some questions and asking with legal knowledge to chime in rather speculate or bloviate.
Your response made it look as if you were in a debate.
You brought up irrelevant issues that nobody was talking about, such as making references to the #4 blog or “investing what can afford to lose” (which by the way, if most people actually invested what they could afford to lose, say for example US$2000), nobody would be desperate to file lawsuits. You seem to be on a soapbox of calling people stupid or addressing people in a paternalistic manner. Nobody wants to hear your personal pet pieve preachings. Stick to the issues at hand, or else people are going to get tired of your bloviating. A word to wise is sufficient.
Also, your response seem to simply restate what I said was unclear. Your answer to the question of “will the money be forfeited” seems to essentially be “it depends”. Well, that was the point of my question…that it is unclear, so until we know more about the investigation, then victims might just be signing their death warrant, in terms of getting their money back from the USDOJ.
Truth:
Let me repeat what I have said before. When I started posting on these blogs I did not post because I am trying to tell UFO investors what they should or should not do with their money. I could care less if you want to throw away your money.
I post to offer a different perspective and to hopefully influence those of our people who are seeking information and have an open mind. If you were to search the blogs you would see that my very first post mentioned the phrase cognitive dissonance and the cult like nature of these schemes.
In such environments people only want to hear opinions in tune with their own. If you read all my posts you will see that for months I have been correct on every material thing . A lot of UFO investors seem to think I could care two hoots whether they like my posts or not… I do not. If they wish to learn something from them, it is their choice. If you are seeking info and have an open mind you will generally find most of my posts informative.
Truth:
The DOJ investigation will go forward whether people cooperate or not. These kinds of investigation are more paper trail type investigations.
I was outlining the different scenarios. And to explain that unless you are a client who was laundering money that you will get back a pro-rated share of any money located… after various things like gov taxes etc, if any (stated that before). That should be clear from my original post.
The issues of whether to cooperate… it seems clear that folks should unless they have other issues they do not wish to risk becoming exposed. I believe it was Jay that posted a link where the DOJ explained how much money they return to investors in illegal or fraudulent schemes.
Excuse me for my inferior intellect but what do questions about getting legal help have to do with cognitive dissonance and everything you just said. its like you answering a question that was not asked. You just illustrated my point. Your answer to any question is a knee jerk broken record soap box response. If I asked a question about the new crime plan in Jamaica by Golding, this is what I expect your answer to be “well, crime is a function of investment stupidity. If people did not invest what they could afford to lose, then they would have more money so that that thet would not have to steal and kill. They put themselves in that position, They should have listened to me on my posts which would solve the crime problem in Jamaica”
If I asked the question what is 2+2? your answer I would expect be “well, it depends on whether your investing for the long term. 2 in the short term is a different 2 in the long term. A 2 in the short term is risky and really is not a 2 because it is naive to think that short term 2 is safe”
Now obviously, the above is meant to be humorous but it illustrates my point, you seem rarely capable of not incorporating some well-worm tired message beaten to death that people have long ago moved past. This smacks of mental indiscipline or ADD or something.
Now, I bet you, your response to this, if you do respond, will go of again on another soapbox with at least one ore more of the following words or phrases in it…”dont want hear what say”…cognitive dissonance…investing what you could afford to lose is nonsense..I am right on all my previous posts…I know more than everyone else…i am a great information collector….people or stupid or mixing stuff up.. etc”
So, how exactly will Jamaican investors get their money from uncle sam? Believe me, folks, unless there is a civil action the feds could end up giving the “clean” money back to DS. This does happen. Even CH of C- fame bosted at one point that the feds gave him back the money they confiscated. He used this to suggest that he could not have been so bad after all.
Bob, that is what we need to find out and this is why I raised thse questions.
Somebody needs to contact or ask their lawyer, or do some research or something.
We need clear facts and law on this.
Who is good at research? Maybe InvestForLife can track this info done concretely
Truth
I don’t want to get in between you and nocotec. But let me take on your point about repeating some “well-worm tired message” (I thought “worm” was a typo, but I’m not so sure on reflection).
One of the mistakes often made by people who try to explain complex things to others is that they go to great lengths to avoid repeating themselves. This is because you are taught in school that repetition is somehow a sign of stupidity or lack of creativity. It could be. And it doesn’t help you to win a debate. But when it comes to explaining stuff so that people absorb it and understand it, repetition is the champion.
Keep going, nocotec! People might get sick of you, but you will have succeeded when everybody thinks that you are simply stating the obvious and little children start laughing at you as a crazy man.
From reading these and other blogs and from the very existence of the mass madness of investors in Olint etc in Jamaica it is clear that you have a lot more work to do before you can rest your pen.
Bob,
As much as I respect your right to your views
I disagree with you on the point. It assumes that we are all children of inferior intellect and that nocotec is the great father here to raise us as his children. That approach is insulting.
If there is an issue that deals with the topic of “investing what you could afford to lose is nonsense” (though I disagree) then go for it. Repeat it.
But If Iam asking where can I find a good lawyer, I dont expect that same response. Thats seems common sense to me.
Truth:
Sorry if I don’t have all the neat well disciplined answers for you… I did not invest in these schemes and one reason was because I knew when they crashed there would be no neat solutions.
My post that set you off… answered your queries… and went further to explain that their are no neat/easy solutions to these problems… and that this is the usual consequence of making bad/stupid decisions… So I am sorry to say that I have no neat/easy solutions for you… and I doubt anyone else does either… I can only give my opinions about the best options available.
But hey I do know that their are a lot of people that never outgrow the teenage thing… If you know or ever had teenagers you know how when they screw up… if you dare to say… see I told you that is what would happen if you did that and I told you there would be major problems to fix it… now see it happened and as I told you there are no easy fixes… I cannot help you with this one, you would not listen to me… you are going to have to figure it out yourself…
Sorry, but since you accused me of being paternalistic … there you go 🙂
Let me say… that I am not suggesting that nocotec should stop posting. I am merely suggesting that he use discretion on where he decides resurrect old themes in his posts, and that he improve his communication so that he does not sound condescending, paternalistic, or pompous. It might make it easier for people to hear him. Now, whether he takes that as constructive criticism is his choice. I am just giving feedback
Ans lastly, he cannot assume that unless one of his 6 buddies is posting that everybody else can be stereotyped or pigeon-holed without truly first “listening” to what they are saying, and play tapes in his head of previous arguments he has had with others. It is the test of ones mind to be able to do that, and it is a sign of maturity.
Truth:
Anyway… I seem to recall you were the one that said, not everyone could afford a lawyer (maybe I am wrong, but lazy to go back and look right now).
As I said, anyone that can afford a lawyer should at least consult one… to try and find out what are his/her’s available options and to decide whether it makes sense to retain one at this point.
I further said for those who cannot afford a lawyer and in fact everyone should cooperate with law enforcement as this affords free legal help working on your behalf and that the criminal case was likely to supersede any civil case… If law enforcement gets a conviction, this is likely to make any civil case a slam dunk.
However you did not like my posts so you went off on a tangent… you think you and I or any 2 people will agree with each other on every thing? If you do not like the entire posts, take what is helpful and ignore the rest. Set aside your biases and garner what is useful.
Bob:
To illustrate your point about repeating…
On the # 4 blog/bus the last post I made was right after Ingrid Loiten (MayDaisy) was arrested in Zambia for money laundering and US $7 million was frozen. I posted that the investors should get lawyers to lay claim to that money and pursue their interests. I was banned from the blog by the “drivah” while all the “smart” investors cheered. and my post was deleted. Here we are again with a similar situation with Olint and I am repeating the same general suggestions.
Some bloggers personalize the issues. Blogs are dynamic places. New folks are constantly discovering the blog. Most bloggers are not active posters, just silent readers. Just because you saw something before does not mean that every other reader has seen it before.
By the way this is only an issue when the blogger sees a repeat of something he disagrees with… E.g., on the # 4 blog they constantly repeat the same things over and over but they do not any problems with it… but as soon as someone says something they disagree with, somebody will say… stale news… we know that… heard that months ago… only facts, no speculation please…
Should be back later… gone for my workout routine.
My point is not that one should not repeat. But that one is to be strategic about their repetition. If you repeat something as answer to a question where it does not fit the question, then you run the risk of seeming silly. How will that advance your agenda of getting people to hear your message.
If you want to keep repeating, then repeat as an independent post but not as an answer to a question that has nothing to do with your message.
Again, I think what I am saying here is obvious or common sense. So in a sense I am repeating because I think you all are missing the point.
By the way, this presentation of my point about repetition is a straw man fallacy, where you concoct a position that you say that another is presenting, you then shoot down the distorted position and claim to win points.
You are distorting my point about repeating. Go back and read my post and see if this is not true.
in the absence on new news, people start debates minor issues.
Thats why I do not like 24 hrs News Stations, when there is news, they are great, but when it is a slow news day , they report trivialities, trying to keep themselves relevant.
Truth @ 2.54
“You seem to be on a soapbox of calling people stupid or addressing people in a paternalistic manner ”
Well let the truth be told in fact many a blog died because of this and the important message has been lost sadly enough
The legal question raised is relevant hope there is someone posting who can actually answer it 🙂
(I cant )
PS.whats with the fixation with another blog ?
is now seems borderline psyscotic
blogkiller:
Why do you need legal advice? Yo know you will soon be investing in another of these schemes as soon as the new crop comes along. Here is statistic a most UFO investors fail to understand… You can see the it at work in the response of many investors to any perceived criticism… the majority of people who fell victim to these schemes have a common trait… they have fallen victim to scams before or they will fall victims to future scams. That is just the way it is. They do not learn, learning involves admission of error. Like it or not this is what the stats indicate.
For the other folks:
The legal issues in the USA and JA are not hard to figure. There have been many public cases in the USA from which you can deduce how these cases unfold. And in JA there is one unfolding. You just need to pay attention in the class of life.
In the USA look at the OJ Simpson case. The criminal case and the civil case. The civil case was filed before the end of the criminal trial. The defendant will usually ask for a continuance of the civil case until the criminal is over since the civil case could prejudice his criminal case which is more serious.
A civil case requires a preponderance of the evidence standard (it is more like than not likely). This means that as in the OJ trial, the defendant can be found not guilty in the criminal case (requires beyond a reasonable doubt, a higher standard) and still lose in the civil lawsuit. Being found guilty will usually guarantee a loss in the civil case.
In JA the Carlos Hill/C+ case is demonstrating how such matters proceed. The civil case (receivership and PLCA requested liquidation) are proceeding at the same time as the criminal case against Carlos Hill and his co-defendants.
In the USA the person who files the first lawsuit can often get preferential treatment. E.g., The attorney can ask for the case to be given class action status.. all defrauded parties are considered part of a class where damages are sought on behalf of all parties. The first attorney and client will get a bigger share of the pie. This is often used in case where damages are sought. In the Olint case most people will likely be seeking restitution (give me back my money + interest).
Because Olint is not likely to be a going concern that can repay everyone… In all jurisdictions it is likely that the plaintiffs will be asking for the appointment of a receiver and or a liquidator. The C+ case should give you a guide as to what to expect with the process. In JA (not sure about TCI), the criminal and receivership can proceed simultaneously. In the USA they are likely to be sequential.
I have addressed the issue of money laundering in the USA. Unless you are personally found to be involved in money laundering… if DS is found guilty of money laundering or other crimes, the Feds will return any money to the investors. The investors get the money back less any that was generated as a result of criminal activity. In TCI the process is likely to be similar. Remember there can be demands ahead of investors interest such as taxes and any secured creditors (such as mortgages).
But as with most of the discussion about these UFOs… this is likely to be a long discussion about nothing… much ado about nothing… as in the case of C+ there is not likely to be much money to go around after the relevant CPAs and attorneys etc are paid. And there is not going to be much money that DS can trade, assuming he is not in jail or on trial… and if he sank the ship when there was lots of money… who in their right mind thinks he can sail the ship to shore with little money and lots of pressure… and is not now clear that he is no FX wizard?
this is a post from Facebook.
Do these ppl really have a clue to reality?
Michael R. Douglas wrote
at 3:51pm
Smithie, just keep at it and we will support you. We just want you to communicate with us so we can put ourselves at ease and dispel all these nonsensical rumours. When the smokes clear, you will know what the next steps you have to make to improve your operations and we will still be there with you.
This man things that DS is a saviour
I think I know this guy. He had a brain.
Sad, sad, sad.
How come we hear nothing about the cases in Jamaica an TCI?
What about the F1 ingrid loiten case and the 30 million?
What about i trade and what about TCI bank theses cases..???/
What about the caese with loiten and Kaunda’s son
Have loiten’s links in africa carried “the family” to Zimbabwe…???
How come Olints lawyers always make one talk and then nothing??? Conspiracy?? corruption???
What about the cabinet ministers? OBG not dealing wid case yet? no distancing?
What of CH and cash plus?
The naysayers are gloating and can relish their victory….even though it still remains possible to earn thoose levels of return….(Read on chris hohns 120% legit return last year..fully transparent and legit)
BUT….it is unlikely that the naysayers will win the “no economic fallout” and “banking sector vibrant argument” talk.
Over to you AS and DW…BTW is not no Air Jamaica dis!
Sirach,
Ingrid Lioten has moved on, did you miss the post yesterday, here it is if you did.
we need to hear something soon.
even with a gag order it would be good to see more than just a request to give DS 9months.
what are we giving nine months for exactly???
sirach Said: “The naysayers are gloating and can relish their victory….even though it still remains possible to earn thoose levels of return….(Read on chris hohns 120% legit return last year..fully transparent and legit)”
Sirach I have been one of the long term naysayers and because many do not like me, especially because I have right so often… there are some that live their lives vicariously through others, loving it when they think someone is winning an argument against me… mainly because they think I care what they think…
Cases in point… as you stated there are people who have made out sized returns in forex at various times… people like Hermes and you have seen some of the others… will come on the blogs and argue all sorts of things about forex… how forex is the most liquid market, how forex is huge market, cite examples of huge returns etc…
This is all nonsensical with regards to any discussion about the JA UFOs. No one has shown any audited proof that any of the UFO principals (DS included) has made any significant returns form trading FX. In this context arguing that forex can make huge returns is downright silly. Anyone who can google can see that such is possible… to an ever changing small group of people.
Such arguments are mere smokescreens…unfortunately many in the press, churches and on blogs etc made such arguments. It made and makes no sense. First you needed to provide evidence that any of these UFOs were making money from such activity… no one provided any. These arguments managed to suck in JA people from ministers of the church and government, educated professional, uneducated, rich, poor…. many many of our people.
Show me proof that DS was making large gains from trading forex. If one cannot, why don’t we choose to point out that people do win the lottery and make huge gains… there is no proof that DS was succesfull at that either….
See how scams can suck people in with clever smokescreen arguments… Argue with them and some of the people who were themselves suckered by such arguments think they are winning. By the way, do you realize that Hermes was likely either a part of Olint or very close to it or folks in it.?
Thanks Jay.
What a bit…….h!
nocotec
You are right. It is all about transparency and audited statements.
Sad though that out of this shall come the belief that such gains are not possible and actually occuring…because they are as we speak.
Another case of the good must suffer for the bad.
nocotec said “…No one has shown any audited proof that any of the UFO principals (DS included) has made any significant returns form trading FX…”
True, but I would also argue that that argument can be used in the other direction, that it cannot be completely ruled out that he hasn’t. While there is a lot of evidence to support the argument that he hasn’t made significant returns, and that it smells worse with each passing day, until his books are reviewed independently (by auditors or law enforcement) then an intelligent person cannot say that it has been established as a fact that he hasn’t done so. It seems to me that a well crafted argument on this subject would allow for the very slim possibility that he could have given what we know, until all the facts are known.
Based on everything we know it seems very likely that at some point in the near future you will be able to unequivocally say that you have been PROVEN correct that Olint was a ponzi and a scam from the very beginning, and you were all dumber than dirt for giving them your money, and if we had listened to you we would not be in the jam we are in, but that day has not arrived yet, but I will concede that at this point it seems 95% certain it will. So just be patient. Let the FACTS emerge.
*** CORRECTION ***
Based on everything we know it seems very likely that at some point in the near future you will be able to unequivocally say that you have been PROVEN correct that Olint was a ponzi and a scam from the very beginning, and that WE were all dumber than dirt for giving them OUR money, and if we had listened to you we would not be in the jam we are in, but that day has not arrived yet, but I will concede that at this point it seems 95% certain it will. So just be patient. Let the FACTS emerge.
CJ:
When investing, it is not about being right. It is about, does a preponderance of the evidence indicate that the chances of success are more likely than not likely. We cannot be sure about the future and so in investing that is the standard that should be used by a prudent investor.
Surely investing in the face of unsupported claims of FX trading with consistently high gains and no audited proof of such gains does not meet the standard of appropriate due diligence.
With me it is about trying to give info to persons seeking information before investing or on whether to stay or leave (if they still can). No investor on any of these blogs ever asked me if they should put their money in any of these schemes and we certainly never agreed to share in any losses or profits. I do not care what they do with their money and what happens to it.
What I care about is providing information that our people can use to help prevent themselves from falling prey to these sirens luring our people on to the financial cliffs of doom. I have never understood why people like to attack me so much when I do not not care two hoots about what they did or are doing with their money.
My arguments are to illustrate the folly of such investments and the outcome for most everyone. You already invested, I do not care about you, you are smart and knew a good thing when you saw it and I am just an idiot for saying different. You have not invested and are seeking info, you can take what you want from what I have been saying. And if you invested and lost you can perhaps understand some of the tell tale signs to avoid a recurrence in the future. Otherwise those that do no like my info can just skip over it.
What is amazing is that nocotec likes to point out folly in other people’s posts. But gets all sensitive when others point out the folly in is. Why don’t nocotec just skips over the info in other peoples posts that he does not like, and follow his own advice.
Also, I think nocotec is getting too wrapped up in his own online personality. He is taking himself way too seriously. Just chill out, man.
Truth:
Why do some of my posts bother you? You never asked me what to do with your money and we never agreed to share any proceeds or losses. But I do agree that there is some folly in some of my posts… trying to present logic to some folks wrapped up in cognitive dissonance 🙂
Incidentally I do disagree with you but I respect you, unlike many, for attempting to present your arguments in a logical way.
Truth:
Incidentally you will never find me hanging out on a blog where everyone agrees with me… I do process all info, negative or positive. Surrounding yourself with yes men is how you get to be George Bush… and invest in ponzis 🙂
nocotec, on July 23rd, 2008 at 10:12 pm Said:….
Blogkiller says YAWN!!! another soapbox response that has nothing to do with post
and who said I was a member of any of these clubs ?? Is it inconceivable that just like you and your 5 other buddies I am obsessed with someting I have no vested interest in and of course have no agenda?
that dutty buoy jay is a paid consultant getting paid to post negative info on these club how could so many people with nothing to loose spend all day and night posting ?
Dave
what do you mean by Negative info?
please enlighten me to some of the positives of these clubs. PLEASE
Dave – step up and answer Needy !!!
Or go skulk off into the same dark corner with your friend DS.
blogkiller: “… and who said I was a member of any of these clubs ?? ”
Great response. We all believe you. Let me see, do I still believe in the tooth fairy? 🙂
nocotec,
So if you dont believe blogkiller that he wasnt member of these clubs….Why are you on here ever single day?
Why do people losing money in these clubs interest you so much?
I am sorry your interest doesnt lie in the PEOPLE lossing their money but in OILINT particularly DS?
I suggest that David Rowe at the Un of Miami school of law be contacted with a view to :
a) having preliminarydiscussions on behalf of investors with the DOJ
2) Exploring the possiblity of a court appointed receiver administer over the Oanda/Wachovia account in the US
obtain a freezing order possibly to protect whatever sums are left.
3) Having receiver distribute the investors claims depending on the amount in the account pro rata
Is it this David P. Rowe you talking about? The one that defended Cash Plus?
And then turn around and sued them?
cornbawla – This is the best suggestion I have seen on this matter so far. David Rowe looks like the perfect man for the job.
Investforlife – perhaps you could start this ball rolling (if you are willing to be the spokesman for the “dispossesed”).
miachica:
Because blogkiller’s writing style, prose etc is indicative of someone that follows me around on the blogs with the same comments… the person posts the same things with multiple nicks… she really, really hates me… in fact it must be a secret crush 🙂
Based on that person’s history of posts, I do not believe for a second she is not an investor. My comment was specific to the blogger, not to the concept.
I have stated my reasons multiple times, including above this post… I am not interested in whether the current investors who made their own decisions, lose money. I am interested in preventing more of our fellow Jcans becoming sucked in to these types of scams.
The bloggers who have seen my post for a long time are laughing at your last sentence, especially blogkiller 🙂 One of her favorite things is… Nocotec hates all the clubs… he is just bad minded and grudgeful 🙂
Sorry it is not just DS/Olint.
cornabawla:
It does not seem like his specialty is investment or securities law 🙂
I believe he claimed to be an immigration specialist.
JohnDoe – Could you really be right ??
The profile of him ( http://www.constitution-and-rights.com/david-rowe.html ) is SO impressive – guess all that glitters is not gold 😦
However, the idea is still good, some BIG lawyer needs to talk to DOJ on club members behalf before the US hold on to all the money either for themselves or their citizens !!
NoCotec:
She follows me around too!!! 🙄
Can you hazard a guess as to who she is? Multiple choice:
a) Patricia (under cover of course)
b)TRob
c) Madmax
d) Moony
e) Tasha Fagan
f) Feminista ????
Do you remember this one:
“If you read the posts of the person to whom truth was responding, another thing you’ll notice is the obsession with what happened or happens here. The posts are usually peppered with scathing remarks about either the #4 bus, Driva, me or about being banned etc. And that is regardless of what he is discussing. Such fixation I find not only absolutely amazing, but a bit weird and downright creepy.”
You know, I think you are partially correct, she has a secret crush on ALL (5+1) the Detractors. Do you know why? She made the mistake of marrying a white canadian and you done know the rest of the story! 🙂
Yes, Marcus, the idea is very very good. Making it happen is harder. Better you try to find a friend who is a lawyer and ask her what to do.
cornabawla/Marcus:
Given what JohnDoe said, have it ever occurred to you guys that David Rowe might be an Olint Investor also?
BTW, he also represent Mr, Shower Posse in Florida Federal court!
Marcus:
I have been suggesting cooperating with law enforcement as the best option. When these ponzi schemes like Olint crash, generally investors will get no money or a small percentage of their money back.
With that in mind, it would seem that it does not make sense for individuals to retain lawyers except as part of a group or for well heeled investors with sufficient resources or for investors with large investments. Outside of those groups usually the cost of a lawyer is prohibitive with the expected returns.
With multiple jurisdictions involved do not be surprised if attorneys tell you it may cost in the US several hundred thousand dollars. That being said it is still a good idea to get a consultation and see what are your likely options and costs.
DaveSin:
Yep, she does get around. Since she wants to be anonymous, I will not hazard a guess 🙂
So Dave comes on here, post a rather dumb comment and runs away.
I post negative comments about the Ponzi schemes. Ok Dave answer Davesin question ” What is positive about a ponzi”.
Go look for DS, CH & HW they have many positive things to say about the AIS.
David Rowe despite his apparent specialty has represented the Jamaican Government in the past and has the profile to at least hold plausible discussions with the DOJ and has sufficient litigation experience from his days at Holland & Knight to make a good showing in Federal Court.
Secondly , as an attorney at law you are the agent of your client it is irrelevant whom you may be representing at any single point in time as you act on your instructions from your client. Who DR may have acted for in the past or future is of minute moment. What is relevant is his ability to get the investors to point of knowledge for further decision making.
Thirdly I am prepared to donate 10% of my investment
towards legal fees , once same is recovered.
This should provide a meaningful incentive for any attorney to at least take the matter to some finality.
If others join in then the figure to the lawyers should be worth their while.
Blind Faith having flown thru the window , our only positive expectation is that the Oanda Account has some value in it.
good things a come people just hold steady. Source calling me back
Janice – I am working through the emotions of my loss but I will not go down quietly. Your “hold steady” posts have become akin to a bottle of rum when problems arise – it doesn’t erase them, just puts them on hold until tomorrow. I don’t believe anyone knows anything for sure at this point (including “sources”) because the best way to keep milk from spoiling, is to keep it IN THE COW.
Anything else, in my opinion, is a bone thrown to settle the masses using the very “rumor mill” that David refered to. I still appreciate your positive outlook however, to which you are certainly entitled.
cornabawla – I will commit 10% of my recovered funds as well, even more, if needed.
Problem of course, is that 10% of nothing is still nothing. No lawyer will take this on until there is at least some idea of the money at stake!
If there is some money there, some sort of “honest broker” must be in place to see that it is equitably distributed among interested parties. I can just imagine the wranglings as members of different “resources” battle over the carcass of O.
sadsac – Janice IS entitled to be positive, but her one woman campaign to post these positive messages on EVERY thread on this blog, smacks of PR for DS.
She needs to stay on the #4 bus where such actions seem more appreciated 🙂
There is nothing positive that is going to come out of this Olint matter. Anyone who things otherwise is only hoping since they have their monies invested.
Ever since these schemes surfaced and crashed ppl have always been promised a return of their funds and received ZILCH.
Ricky Azan said the same thing too, that he had a team of traders that were working to pay back ppl. He then dissapeared.
These are just words.
Let us assume that DS shortfall is U$50mill, Yes fifty mill.
Does anyone really feel that this sum is a piece of cake and easy to make in 9months?
U$50 million is a large amout of money, most of the millionaires in the world are valued less than this, and yet we would want to believe that Super Dave can just manufacture money.
We all know that his theft is far more than this figure, so please all just GET REAL.
Marcus
Marcus
I agree – janice is more than entitled to her opinion. And yes she does sound like a DS PR agent but to be honest a lot of persons i have read sound like a part of a massive smear campaign on DS….the blog seems to have a basis towards tearing down DS.
Happily though I commend Needy & The Third Side for coming close to what i would describe as “balanced” views.
Needy,
Even if there is a shortfall and we are only able to get fifty cents on the dollar, most persons (esp those in there over 1 year) would still come out significantly better than any other investment available worldwide.
mk – case in point – I break even at 0.18 on the $. Yeah I know…….
everyone will soon see! you people are too negative we will all be saved!
mk – 50c on the dollar sounds REAL good right now 🙂
My loss is smaller than most (piggy-backed with a relative) but my extended family stands to lose an unthinkable amount of money. It is VERY hard not to tear DS to pieces on the blog, whether he has the money or not the damage he has already done is intense.
Stories are floating of suicides. Can’t confirm any but certainly possible. A woman in the US killed herself yesterday hours before her foreclosure was to take effect. How many Jamaicans are in grief tonight ?
Why do you guys think you would be getting Xc on the dollar for your last account statement? It seems to be to be FAR more likely that you/we would get Xc per dollar for invested amount…..
Marcus,
How did u hear abt this woman who killed herself?
theCynic – you bring up a good point.
If there is any money, how will it be EQUITABLY distributed.
If two members have invested $10,000 and (A) takes interest every month for a year.
At the end of the year one has a balance of $10,000 (plus $13,200 in interest) the other (B) a little over $30,000 (at 10% per month).
Would it be “fair” to pay back 50c on the dollar on “invested” portion ? – I think NOT 🙂
All speculative of course, there will need to be some money first 🙂
It cannot be based on original principal…..some persons have been in the fund since inception…if they started with 10,000 and allowed it to compound their balance would be worth over 1million (check it).
Clearly they could not be assessesd on the original $10,000.
mk – to be VERY CLEAR, the woman who committed suicide was not involved in OLINT. She is a victim of the mortgage crisis in the US. The story was on the evening news here in the US.
I mentioned it to illustrate what happens when people are backed into corner and see no way out. Nuff OLINTERS are in trouble – life savings going down the drain !!
I apologize, that my posting was not very clear on this.
JaniceTheSaviour – still at it !! Are you related to OFL ??
mk – of course you are right, but with DS admitting that his accounting system was S**T, how would anyone figure out the “cents on the dollar” equation.
Hopefully JTS is right and ALL the money is there to make the issue moot ! – YEAH RIGHT 🙂
Janice,
Why are you so confident?…..I am also hopeful..but do u have any info or is it just faith?
i work for the boj i know . D day is coming!
I don’t think all the money is there….there is clearly a gap….his crappy back hse is a major part of the issue…we have all seen it in action.
If he has been having mostly successful trades (i believe he may have) then there should be funds there to be divided out….again if that is the case and we get back at least 50 cents on the dollar – he would have vindicated himself.
@mk and marcus
In this article, written 2 months ago, we looked at that “equitable distribution” issue.
Read it and let us know what you think.
JohnDoe – I had not seen that article, but it illustrates the potential nightmare perfectly.
OLINT has an added level of complexity with the injection of the US Feds. I suspect that US citizens may have a MUCH better chance of recovering funds from frozen bank accounts (note how frozen Cuban assets are used to pay US citizen’s actions against Castro’s Cuba).
Your article does not come up with that “equitable distribution”. I suspect the only winners (if aby money exists in O) will be the lawyers !
Alot of folks do not realize this..
1. Ds lawyered up to defend him but to also deter folks from carrying to court.
2. The history of sentences in financial crimes are very short. If Ds goes to prison he will probably be out to see his kids off to college.
People think and check……you need to come together and fight O and his cronies.
Money laundering? no way
Better to see Beyonce Naked
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/06/foreignpolicy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/06/foreignpolicy
Now the lawsuits start flying:
OLINT BOSS SUED !!!
Two disgruntled members of the foreign exchange trading club Olint have filed suits against principal David Smith to recover just over US$3 million they say they have invested with the embattled entity.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20080725T020000-0500_138276_OBS_OLINT_BOSS_SUED.asp
The greedy and the gullible.
This is how one writer describes those who invested in the Ponzi schemes.
Is he right or is he off course ?
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080725/cleisure/cleisure2.html
Time to move to a new thread
We have over 500 posts on! This thread now it is time to move on. Thank you
David Smith Sued….
Investforlife is JTS another janice fake like #2? If not janice give us some update nuh
MK
This is what I would do if I was DS and there was monies left
Examine each clubmembers initial investment.
Add all the interest payments that has been physically collected in cash by the clubmember.
Deduct the interest that was encashed, from the total of the intial investment.
The balance would now be the amount that I owe the clubmember.
The amount of cash in hand would now be divided by the balances owed to determine how much on the dollar to pay.
According to this formula, those clubmembers who got in early, and were smart enough to collect back their principles,and only exposure is now interest payments that are being rolled over, would not get a cent more.
So basically those who are still owed would receive their Initial investment less any monies that they had collected, or as close to it as possible.
That way no one who is currently owed anything, makes any gains.
We would all be losers, but in hindsight, we deserve to lose something to learn this lesson, of just foolishly handing so much money to a one man operation.
Needy:
How would you handle those that have gotten back more than their principal (may times). Will they be required to give back the overage (excess over principal invested)? If so, how would you pursue them if they fail to deliver? What about the “many” that might have been paid more than they deserve due to faulty accounting system?
davesin
no you just leave those alone. They were the lucky ones
Needy:
Lucky indeed!!! Lets face it, DS is blaming the collapse on them…the latter group of course!
Needy:
I’m sorry, Investforlife tried to closeout this thread…did you notice?
Come on people we can do much better than this. Let’s start speaking life and prosperity back into Olint operations.
Words spoken give rise to life or death. Who are the “true bloggers’ who would truly want to see this season of test and trials in the Forex restore to its real glory for the Will of God for His people at this time?
Irrespective of who we are there comes of time when we must pick up those who have fallen the corruption in the Forex must be flushed out. The evil ones arms and walking sticks must be removed. Repentance is in order for DS and Olint principals.
OLint ARISE! and complete the journey in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
ALL DECOYS to tear down and Destroy the Bread basket of Olint, DS we uproot and expose you now and we say DECOYS vanish NOW!
To God be the Glory.
Peace – Be- Still !! (Pun intended) 🙂
You are chanting fire and brimstone on the WRONG set of guys.
Anyway this thread has been closed.