investforlife
jay
nocotecThe Jamaica Gleaner is presenting a side of the man behind OLINT. In a Gleaner artcle of Sunday July 20, 2008, a reporter now in the Turks and Caicos tells a few stories. Here are some quotes:
Smith is a popular figure in corporate circles here and is known to throw down as much as US$100,000 ($7.2 million) a night at the Players Club and Casablanca casinos, two of his favourite spots.
No one is prepared to give their name when talking about Smith, but they speak highly of his boundless benevolence, which includes sponsoring many sports competitions and social events. “David helps a lotta people here man. He’s good for this country,” says a man who claims to be Smith’s friend.
Two weeks ago, he celebrated his birthday with a massive party at his mansion in the upscale Chalk Sound area. It was reportedly attended by several Jamaican members of Parliament.
It is interesting that these friends are not prepared to have their names called and stand up for their friend, especially when their friend based on what we hear is happening clearly needs help.
It should also be noted that OLINT sponsored the Jazz and Blues festival in January 2008 , for a significant amount we have been unable to ascertain, and had launched a US$1 million Olint foundation in December 2007.
If we are to believe these stories, David Smith was living the life in the Turks and Caicos while his club members for at least the last 7 months have been scouring blogs to get information on what was happening to their money. It has been torturous to say the least, for members as they have shifted through speculation, conspiracies theories and the facts, only to be stunned by the contents of the now famous ‘e-mail’ that only confirmed what many(detractors) have believed and available evidence has suggested for a long long time. Things at Olint were not what they seemed.
Prayers for OLINT
Interesting in a letter to the Gleaner, a Bishop Peter Morgan, appears to believe that OLINT is just having technical difficulties and soon return to regular programming.
It is apparent that they do not lack the funds to disburse gains to their club members, but are hampered by the proper mechanisms to do so.
Bishop Peter Morgan, it is time to wake up and smell the roses. Persons need pray for those that are suffering and pray that the same mistakes are never made again.
Source:Smith, man of ‘boundless benevolence’ (Gleaner) and Prayers for Olint (Gleaner)
Related
Filed under: Olint | Tagged: David Smith, News, Olint, Scheme, Turks and Caicos |
Real Investments For Life 
can someone tell us if you know anything about Ingrid Loiten from MayDaisy
Robert:
If anyone tells you anything pertinent or up to date on IL they would be lying!! Question for you:
Why did she relocate to Africa (it’s not clear to me and others, where in Africa she is; South Africa?; Zambia?; etc.).
What happen to that US$7 Million? Was that all the funds she transferred overseas?
Is she really an FX Trader as some has opined?
Like, Olint, does anyone know anything about the inner-workings of her club (total under management; number of investors, etc., etc.)?
Somewhere on this site
you will find the last communication she sent out to her members….that’s it!!
Oh, you should have posted your question under the May Daisy section!
Another Olint Editorial:
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080720/cleisure/cleisure1.html
Good morning,
I hope by now you would have all ready the gleaner article on DS which is available on line today.
The man literally threw away / wasted his investors money and they were simply cheering him along all the way( I admit most did not know or even care as long as 10% kept flowing).
Can you imagine this man exercised zero fiduciary responsibility to his clients, and was thrown away up To US$100K per night when he visited his favourate “casino”.
So not only was he gambling in the forex market, but he appeared to also be gambling away some in the other casinos that he visited.
What a highly irresponsible act, and yet he lied and said he did not use his “clients” money for his own personal gains.
DS is a irresponsible and lying individual who should NEVER be given a dollar or a day to manage for ANYONE.
Jay,
Some would say “you work hard, so you should play hard”…..and here I left myself open for you and others to say….”not with other peoples’ money”….yikes.
Repost from another Thread: Anyone?
Robin Irie, on July 20th, 2008 at 7:46 am Said:
Has anyone seen the printed version of the Observer yet? I would like to know if Mark Wignall has broken his silence as yet.
xzyled:
True, if its was HIS money and it wasn’t impact his judgement or his ability to trade (if he was really trading)!
Well I hope that all the ppl here who used to say that DS was a christian are seeing the light now. This man was always drunk, gambling and hanging out in strip clubs. Everybody knew this, everybody suspected, but the 10% was just fine. Those however who saw this behaviour and allowed there money to rollover were FOOLS.
DS was no super trader.
DS was just a NOBODY who worked at JMMB.
People trusted him with their funds, and he decided to live the life of the rich and famous with it.
All that DS cared about is his EGO, and what his former “friends” will think of him now.
He is not trying to help the club members, he is just trying to save face.
There should be not one person who should be supporting him now, ppl need to end the hoping and dreaming now.
this site looks to be mainly for olint investers what about MayDaisy people we need some comments where is the money ????? why was 7million wired out of jamaica ?????? what about the law suite that F1 -Investment has with MayDaisy ???????? why have all the AIS crash at the same time?????
yes tell us
MayDaisy what happen ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
DaveSin
Mark wignall HAS broken his silence, he still believes david is a super trader and is of the beleif that the conspiracy is working againtst david paying out money.
This is classical cognitive dissonance combined with EGO he cant admit he is wrong or update his prior beleifs.
carlos hill from cash plus is a con man david smith from olintis a drunk and gambler ingrid loiten is a thief how have we aloud this people lose our money
Needy:
Maybe you can help me understand three things:
1) If people knew he was drinking it up, gambling and hanging out at strip clubs, why was it made public before? I only saw that info when a few posters on this site started to post that information last week?
2) When DS in his most recent email requested his club members give him 9 months to repay members, is he asking for “permission” or what? It’s not clear to me that investors ever had a “choice” in what Olint did in the past. If he is indeed asking for permission and the answer is NO, will he then windup the operation of Olint?
3) Also, does he plan on have a “professional” audit done on Olint or the audit he alluded to in the email, will be done by internal (internal audit) and what would be accomplish in 9 months that he was unable to do in the past 2-years? Help me out.
Hey guys check this out taken from the #5 Bus. Excerpts
Patricia Says:
July 20, 2008 at 9:42 am
Prior to Feb of this year I had no knowledge whatsoever or any irregularities and issues about gambling and high life etc. What I always had a problem with and said so was the BLASTED PATTY SHOP model he was using. I too heard rumours, but what I cant confirm I will not repeat and so very often I tried to have things independently verified. I see people talking crap all over. Let me say this .. I never created this blog . I am not the administrator. I am a poster like everybody else. Who want to believe it or not that’s your business. I have no agenda.
There is a lot of hypocrisy going on. People who joined knowing O to be a ponzi but benefitting and then boasting that they were smart eneough to get out early. People who knew they were over paid and were only too happy to get away with it. People who had real and pertinent information about the irregularities, but did nothing so as to not rock the boat, after all they needed to make sure they and their connections got paid first.
Well let me let you in on a little secret….I am yet to receive a cent, yes! not one cent from O.
Am I upset? yes. Dissapointed ? Yes
My Comments.
When posters who are now here tried to post information contrary to what persons on the other bus thought, what happened. We all got kicked off one by one,as the posters where quick to say ” Driver let off that one there sah”.
When things are going good no one wanted to here another view, and now that its all broken we want openness and regulatory oversight.
What are you going to regulate now, when confidence has been shattered.
How a regulatory agency even consider Olint at the stage (say they decided to apply) when there is sufficient evidence to show that the principal does not have the fiscal discipline to run any money collecting business.
It will not happen, so as far a I see it take what you can get and run.
Give him not a day more !!
I fail to see what he can do now that he did not do in the last 18mths.
THE POWER OF MASS MARKETING
1) Ricky Azan was a successful businessman.
David Smith had a job at JMMB, and we said that he
left because he was making too much money for
them and not getting any. We never asked, why did
he not open a personall trading account for himself
while doing his job?
2) Ricky Azan was a rich man
David Smith was a broke pocket man, yet suddenly
we claim him to be one of the worlds top 5 traders.
3) Ricky Azan, was never seen drunk, partying,
gambling hanging out at go-go clubs, or jetsetting
around the world. People would go to his offices
and see the traders at work
No one ever saw David trading, but we all knew
about the gambling and other debauchery that went
on, and at the same time WE claim that he was a
christian.
4) We knew that an oversees bank that Ricky dealt
with had gone bankrupt, albeit they did not owe him
multi miilions, but he still suffered a loss then.
We heard that David Smith had bought a bank in
TCI, yet we did not question, why did he not just stop
the legal battle with NCB and payout from his bank?
5) Ricky Azan lost his clubmembers fund in trades that
went bad, and we said that “dem a fool, why dem
never give Olint.
David Smith lost his clubmembers fund, by trying to
build his ego, partying, gambling and general
hobnobbing. Suddenly he was the HOTTEST thing
around. We stuck by him and prayed for him even
when it was clear since January that something was
wrong. We blamed Lee Chin, Clarke, Cliff Hughes.
Oanda, The FEDS. The FSC of all conspiring to take
down David Smith.
6) Ricky Azan has asked his clubmembers for time to
pay back the money that he legitimately lost
in trading activities. We say, “he is crazy, he cant
make that back” Its impossible
David Smith has asked his clubmembers for time to
pay back the money that he lost jettsetting and
partying all over the globe. We say that yes, he is a
genius, and the forces were against him, let us give
him time to make it back. Its possible
7)Ricky Azan ran a fx trading operation, We said that it
was a Ponzi
David Smith ran a Ponzi, we said that he was the
best FX trader on earth
Often times it is not what the eyes behold that we believe, but what we are told. This is why sometimes maniacs like Hitler and others can move masses of people to do there bidding. This was why JIm Jones could have pursueaded his fock to commit suicide in Guyana, a few decades ago.
People believe not what they see, but what they hear, which is why word of mouth is the best form of advertising.
At the end of the day, both Ricky Azan & David Smith lost their capital, but no one can ever say that Ricky stole their money, infact this loss has made his life worse, he has lost his family, businesses
David on the other hand stole billions, and his life today is much better off than when he worked at JMMB. He still has is family, his businesses and most of all his loyal customers.
All those here who say that they are only just now hearing about the excessive partying are lying. I live in the States without much information to Jamaican social life, and I knew all of this from what i read in the online Gleaner and Observer. He was always here, there, everywhere, ALL OVER, and I often wondered, “so when does he find time t trade”
He was photographed regularly jetting around to world cup cricket venues. Unnu never see the photos in the newspapers too? So dont come here and tell me that this is now NEW to you all.,
Dave,
Read part of Patricia post above.
Many people knew but kept silent you want to know why. Well they did not want to create panic and cause any further run on Olint.
Do you see the poor thought process of those persons. How could they possibly think that a man who is drinking and “whoring” down the place could possibly be trading and making them money.
2) He said he wanted them to give him 9months to clear up this mess and get them back their money. Some folks are very quick to say yes without even understanding what the man is saying. There are 12 questions that I can ask right now and I know they would not even consider asking.
So in effect they would be putting themselves in an even worst situation that what they are in now
3.) Good question, and why now? Lets see how those who are willing to give him more time answer that one.
I say not a day more.
BTW –
Why did DS higher a group of “top notch ” lawyers ?
Needy.
Great post brother.
If you have access to the #5 bust you can post it over there as well.
DS hired top notch lawyers because he is still living in denial. It is all about his ego. This is the thing that Big businessmen do, hire top notch lawyers. I will bet you my head that these top lawyers travelled to TCI on a private jet?
Jay
I dont even know where the #5 bust is, can you copy and paste it over there for me?
David never left JMMB because he didn’t get enough money or anything of the sort. That is just speculation/hype. The real truth about that is something completely different.
Needy:
It’sactually call the #4 bus:
Here is the link:
http://invest4life.wordpress.com/investment-clubs-2/#comment-10868
those lawyers do not come cheaply, They charge you according to your worth. The retainer alone is about U$300 thousand minimum. Believe me, I know what I am talking about, I have had major dealings with all three before. They charge according to what they thing that you are worth.
They are not concerned about their client, only to grab whatever fees that they can get. That was my experience with all 3 of them.
Needy, good post. David was featured on the popular page 2 many times.
People in the States and even people in jamaica chose to ignore it. 10% a month is indeed a powerful force
The gambling started even before the first run as he frequented the local spots blowing upwards of 10 gran U.S a night.
Then when he moved to TCI when he visited Jamaica used to party every night, frequented Platinum go go club and was as drunk as ever, I wonder when people thought he was “trading”
Fact is DS is not a profitable trader, I doubt strongly there is any significant money left.
The Gleaner article is probably close tp 100% accurate. My contacts in TCI tell me the same thing about DS and the casinos, seeing him there all the time at the high-rollers table. Other friends see him at Acropolis REGULARLY and the ‘mansion’ he built at Jazz and Blues is now legendary.
All the time, we saw DS blowing through the money and our analysis was “he is really doing well for himself”.
There is never smoke without fire.
Realist
I know that. david was fired from JMMB because
Needy:
How much you think JACQUELINE SAMUELS-BROWN hit up those Drug Dealers (that recently got extradited) for?
You know these lawyers are “PREDATORS”…I know, my sister is one of them ( she is a christain though 🙂 ).
When C+ was crashing, we found out that CH had just come out of prison for fraud !!
It is time for the JMMB story to come out. I (and many of you) have heard it but cannot verify it’s authenticity.
Cliff Hughes – time to dig out one of those ‘reliable sources’ 🙂
I dont think that there is any money left. A big Jamaican hotelier who operates in the TCI told me that the he was banned from entering the casinos in the TCI from a few months back, because of gambling bills that he owed to them.
Who knows, his current issues in the TCI could probably be pressure being brought on him by the casinos
Dave Sin ,
the montegonians who were extradited was the best financial thing that happened to Jamaican lawyers.
It was their biggest payday ever, until now that Super D has come along
Needy,
You seem to have a lot of information brother, keep it flowing.
I repeat that thanks to Kevin, the “investforlife” blog was born and now by all accounts has the most current and accurate information that is available on the net.
Even the comments/speculations from most posters appears to be spot on, as they use the available information to make very good deductions, which in most cases are accurate.
BTW – Dave
Kevin has a new bus as the #4 bus was just parked as it had become full.
anyone bought the Observer?
I know why David lost his job at JMMB
In 2003 there was a ring of currency traders in the large banks, and financial houses in Jamaica. At that time the Jamaican Dollar was sliding and as usual the Bank of Jamaica would intervene with funds to stop this slide. However instead of halting this slide the exchange rate continued to tumble rapidly.
The reason for this was that these rogue traders would take this BOJ intervention money, and illegally sell it to each other through their own middle men since this money could only be sold at a 5cents profit. The middle man would then sell it to one of the rogue traders who could by it at any price, since he could always sell it back to another rogue trader for a huge profit the following day. This huge profit would now be shared by the rogue traders and their middle men.
It is akin to buy money today, and knowing that you can sell it back at any price tomorrow for a 50cent – one dollar spread.
BOJ could not understand what was happening, the interventions did not seem to me working at all.
This moved the J$ rate from the mid 50’s to 72 to one, back in 2003. I do not know if any of you remember the period.
Eventually the ploy was exposed and Omar Davis was fuming, A lady from Manufacturers Merchant Bank was arrested, and David was asked to resign from JMMB.
Most of the other rogue traders kept their jobs in the banks and still have them.
Incidentally these rogue purchases and sales were used by using the banks money.
The Jamaican dollar exchange rate then corrected itself back to 60 to 1
This was why Super D lost his job at JMMB
This information is not hard to corraborate. You can ask anyone who was involved in the financial markets in Kingston during that period, or go and check the rates for the Jamaican dollar back in late 2003/2004.
The Duncans did not want to fire David because he was a good humble person, and the family atmosphere that exists at JMMB, but BOJ insisted, and so he was asked to resign.
Ask any large currency trader in Kingston, they can confirm this.
Now wait for the fallout on the #4 bus …
needy’s version of events is as I have heard.
The question remains – how the hell did DS manage to spin this into being the ‘world’s greatest FX trader” ??
Needy,
Lightafuseand run posted something akin to this a few days ago. He however did not go into details.
If this is true it would be indeed be a shocking new revelation into the man known a Jamaica’s first “Super Trader” and the man who single handedly broke Jamaica middle class.
JAY & Marcus
read the earlier post that i made about the power of mass marketing, and you will understand why.
People believe what they hear and not what they see.
Jay – perhaps DS was doing God’s work. Remember, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. All those middle class people are now poor and will now have a much easier task 🙂
Needy, I can’t understand your point of view. You seem to be suggesting the people should just walk away from their money and just ‘get on with their lives’.
If you have only an academic interest in Olint or are wealthy enough to not miss the money you have in Olint, then that might be the thing to do for some folks. For others, it will cause severe dislocation to lose the money they have in Olint.
Pressing to wind up Olint now will only benefit the lawyers and accountants, because that is a complicated legal and business process. In that scenario I would be lucky if I got back $0.05 on the dollar.
At this point, I AM NOT SAYING TO TAKE DAVID SMITH AT HIS WORD. Clearly he cannot be trusted. But I have to take at look at my own situation, and make a logical decision as to what is best for ME. I don’t see how giving the lions share what is left of my money to the lawyers and accountants and BIG investors to be in MY best interest. I can understand that to you with only an academic interest in Olint or the wherewithal to walk away from what you have in Olint, then winding up Olint gives you the smug satisfaction of being right.
I am willing to take the risk with the $0.05 which I could probably two years from now get if Olint were wound today up for the admittedly slim POSSIBILITY that I may be able to recover some portion of the $1.00 in nine months. But I could lose only $0.05 versus making a $1.00.
That being said, I will only take that chance if we see some reforms in how Olint operates. We MUST get an audited accounting of the club today, plus regular audits over the ensuing 9 months because I will not TRUST David Smith anymore. He does not have the right to ask for my TRUST anymore.
To those who responded to my earlier posts, I got all the emails, and will respond later this week.
If you want to join us while we explore ways to PROTECT our funds in Olint, send an email to;
olint_investors**@**yahoo**.**com
Don’t send any personal info, just tell us where you are;
Jamaica
US, State
Other countries.
CJ,
I posted a question before, but I will now direct it at you.
What is the main purpose of those lawyers that DS recently hired. ?
I am try to really understand this.
Jay
The purpose of the lawyers is to protect DS himself.
If you are going to make specific actionable allegations like that be very sure. I am no disciple of David Smith, but we have a tendency in Jamaica for everyone to pile on and kick you when you are down.
Personally I would have more respect for the folks who are now making all this information public if they did it a year ago when it would have actually benefit us.
Now everyone and their brother ‘know this and know that.’
Why didn’t you all say it before? I guess that would have taken real courage.
People, I believe we should not now be trying to understand who David was then, and why he left JMMB et al.
Our collective minds should now be focused on the way forward.
Shouldn’t a team of persons really, really find DS home and really draw him out to come and really explain to people on what’s the real deal.
We’re really letting him off the hook to easy. He should be in some amount of discomfort now.
He has disrespected people
Needy
You have it perfectly correct, JMMB almost lost their cambio licence because of the FRAUD that david did. They forgave him and he came back and apologized to the company with his wife by his side.
JMMB has a vsion of love thing where they try to preseve a persons dignity and employment future, so they asked him to resign.
If they had fired him maybe he would not be responsible for the second largest transfer of wealth (finsac was the first) this country has ever seen.
HAHA
Thanks Jason,
From what?
There has been no charges laid against DS by the TCI authorities, and he still being allowed to operate his business, so why hire some expensive lawyers.
No Investor to my knowledge has yet filed a lawsuit against Olint or DS.
So the hiring of a set of lawyers is preemptive strike or an admission of guilt.
If DS was really concerned about making back folks money, why did he not instead hire some top brass forex traders, so its speed up his chance of paying back all that money he gave away. 🙂
for those who do not understand here is an example
Monday;
BOJ intervenes with U$1mill, to JMMB,with stipulation that it can only be sold to a non currency trading biznizz at a price of 5 cents above the intervention rate of 60.00 to one dollar.
DS calls his friend (middle man)Chalky and sells him this money at $60.05, and reports to BOJ that he has sold this U$1mill at the 5cents spread.
Chalky now calls another banks or rogue trader (say NBS) and sells them this money for $61 for 1. So the total profit is 95cents. or J$950000.00
This profit is spread between the 2 rougue traders and the middle man Chalky,
The Jamaican dollar rate of course continues to run unabated since the money is not being bought by people who need it to pay bills, but by traders who keep moving the same money around to each other through middle men, adding their spread each time and sharing this windfall, All with the banks money.
These traders were interviewed by the Sturridge and his team at the time
Despite the fact that all persons should’ve gone in with their eyes wide open, most did not. And really, who in this sort of an economic climate would really not want to benefit from 10% etc gains. Those who did not try, really never had any money to put in, could not get in or were just coward. We’re only humans.
Despite above, persons are really hurting, and DS has a responsibility to his people, in both good and bad times – that separates a man from a boy
Jay, if someone opened a criminal investigation against YOUR business, wouldn’t you hire lawyers?
If serial killers and child molesters have the right to hire lawyers, why shouldn’t David Smith?
I have a question for you. How are you damaged if I and others decide to leave my $0.05 with olint? Lay out a scenario where someone like me benefits from the immediate winding up of Olint.
I can see how you would benefit because then you would be proven right and thereby win an argument in which you only have an academic interest.
CJ,
Many people knew a lot of things but refused to say what they knew, and some of the reasons where:
1. I am getting my money so hell, it does not matter.
2. I do want to rock the boat right now, so I will leave it alone.
3. I will wait until I get all my money then I will talk.
4. Lets see how all this play out before I say anything.
Believe you me, a lot of persons knew many things but rather choose to shut up that speak out.
Its like a man seeing a crime being committed and will say ” Boss mi nuh see a ting you hear sah” and refuse to give an official statement to the police or go before the courts.
Yet speak to him one and one, and the information will just flow.
In Jamaican today, once you are the beneficiary of something from someone, the rule is you DO NOT “rat” them out.
Let those who want to find out go do it themselves as ” Mi nah tell dem nuttin”
CJ
Many of us have tried to warn people and give them whatever information we knew of from waaaay back. Don’t assume that because you personally never heard these things from us, that we weren’t trying to make people aware. As it pertains to this kind of forum, as you know, a number of us were over on the #4 bus, and whenever we said anything that contradicted what the masses wanted to hear, we were insulted, ridiculed, ignored, and eventually kicked off the bus. Many of you UFO members simply stuck your fingers in your ears, covered your eyes and sang praises unto CH, MD, WW and DS/O.
So this argument about why information just coming to light now and how you would have respected people if they had said something earlier is just lame. Go back and check the archives on the #4 bus and see the reality.
CJ
you say that you would have more respect for ppl if they had made this info public before.
Omar Davies warned you
The FSC warned you
Michael Lee Chin warned you
Jason warned you
Bill Clarke warned you
BOJ warned you
The IMF warned you
And I must now believe that you would have listened to me.
I am now telling you to move on from this, yet you are saying that you need to save your little, Your little of what NOTHING.
Join the line,
The reality is that there is NOTHING left, Only promises, like losing a loved one, the faster that you move on the better it is for you.
Listen to someone for a change.
needy, with respect, none of what you have said has been established as fact at this point.
That is why we need an audit of Olints accounts so that we can know exactly where we stand.
Neither you or I know as fact that it is NOTHING as you say.
needy – another good post.
Let all who have ears listen
Jay, frankly I have no time to listen to people with the character you describe.
There are some posters on the # 4 bus who you could tell believed that Olint was a ponzi, because they were the ones who were most hostile to those of us who used to question Olint’s operations. They were the ones who were hostile to any talk of transparency. It was obvious that they though that Olint had something to hide, but did not want to rock the boat as you said.
CJ – FACTS
1) the fact is nobody has been paid for 7 months
2)DS has given us about 5 differet reasons why there
has been no payments. It has always been
someone/ something else.
3) three weeks ago he told Cliff Hughes on air that
money would be arriving on Friday
4) the following money he sends out a lame email
asking clubmembers for time, without saying
anything.
5) He refutes the email that Cliff Hughes read on air
this week.\
6) his lawyers issues a similiar release to Cliff 2 days
later
7) I might add that during all this time that no one was
paid , DS sponsors the Jazz festival, building a
castle at the event, MASSIVE profiling.
8) incidentally he and his wife went on a 2 week cruise
in April.
9) DS has asked for time, but has still not told anyone
how much funds he currently has on hand.
These are the FACTS, you go and make you deductions.
CJ,
Most times in the investing( as Nocotec already said) you cannot wait for the facts to be made available to come to a realization or to made a decision.
You look at the the information that is publicly available, look at how the company’s management behaves, when it comes unto openness, disclosure, regulatory affairs etc.
Then you ask 5y’s
eg.
First Why?
1. Why does DS/Olint refuses to get regulated
Possible answer to First Why.
Ans 1. He does not want his accounting information to be publicly available.
Next Why
2. Why he does not want his accounting information to be publicly available.
Ans 2. He believes that by looking at his accounting information that one can determine his trading strategy.
Now when you look at answer 2 above you realize that, the answer given there has to be wrong as you know that is not possible.
So the question therefore stands
By digging all the way through you stand a great chance of getting the truth or in some case reveal a blatant lie.
needy, we need to be careful how we use the language.
What exactly did those persons warn us of?
We won’t know who was right and who was wrong until some independent person looks at Olint’s books. Only when we know what happened can we assess what went wrong.
What I am talking about is the revelations coming out of the woodwork about David’s character and JMMB work history. Those are new to me. I never heard those before from the FCS, MLC or Bill Clarke or anyone else.
In the current climate, it doesn’t require much courage to say anything you want about David Smith right now, and as much as he does deserve it because of his actions thus far, I am just saying that I would have had more respect for those making allegations now if they were made when it would have required courage to make them.
needy; i am not disputing your facts. They answer the WHAT question, they do not answer the WHY question.
That’s why we need Olint’s accounts to be reviewed BEFORE we ‘investors’ decide where to go next.
Why is that bad plan? Explain who is harmed by that.
CJ
Again, don’t assume that because YOU didn’t here these things, that they weren’t said.
Needy,
You obviously have good info on the whole debacle- I however agree with CJ – persons should not just assume there is no money. It is clear DS continues to spend at clubs, cruises, jets…living the high life in Turks, etc…..this all involves spending BIG money. Why give up now?….it best to try and get back something than simply moving on.
CJ –
I understand, well personally I just came to this blog (any blog for that matter this week)
Even with all that happened in the past, I really am dissapointed with David, I would never had imagined that he would have partied and spent out ppls money. He was always a very humble/honest guy, and insider trading governments money does not really make you a thief by the standards that we have set for ourselves in Jamaica.
I too was in denial of the existence of any money, even though I often wondered about all the parying. It was the character of the man that fooled me, not the interest rate.
Now that I know that he has lied to us, I have to believe that everything that he now says is a lie,
And remember this, He has not now admitted to anyone that there are any funds available.\
However now that I have seen all these lies
Needy,
I would love to hear ur take on the purported 750 mil on the Oanda platform….is there any way to verify this? This would be helpful in unlocking what I feel is the REAL question – if there is any money left.
needy I understand where you are coming from, and you may well be right.
We just don’t know.
What kind of audited financial reports?
This was a one man operation.
Even a patty shop can give you that.
David was just getting in money and spending it wildly until it finish.
I ask you one question.
We know that for all his legal troubles, he has had top flight lawyers.
He was handling BILLIONS of DOLLARS.
1)Who are his accountants?
2)Who are his auditors?
3)Wouldnt you expect him to have a TOP FLIGHT
ACCOUTANTS too?
I’ll bet that there is no one here that can answer any of these three questions.
Yet we know his lawyers, but not his accountants.
What I have appreciated abt this blog is that there is seems to be an honest indepth thrust for truth which still illudes us…..it would appear that DS has not been forthright with us…….I want to throw out a question though – Do you think the banks collectively pulled together to bring down OLINT – or did OLINT just self destruct?
MK if there was 750k on the Oanda platform
the run at Olint would have been contained with this money.
Everyone would be happy, reinvested their money with Olint, since we would have had renewed confidence.
David would this morning just be getting up at the Ritz Carlton, after all night partying in the OLINT booth at Reggae Sumfest, while his jet is being refueled at the Sangster airport for his flight to Las Vegas.
We would not be on the blog, but at some beach living it up today.
That is how the rumoured 750 mill on the Oanda platform would have changed the day for everyone.
No the banks did not collectively conspire to bring down Olint.
yes he affected their deposits.
their profits grew tremendously even with Olints competition.
Olint failed because of Davids ego
never see come see
mk
I for one don’t believe there was any conspiracy. I believe the banks are well positioned to see what was happening and was trying to get as far as possible when it hits the fan.
I still don’t see how the banks could cause a genuine fx outfit to go insolvent/ bankrupt.
If DS had any money the logical thing for him to do, is see what is debt is and payout according to the losses. not to ask for 9 months
Needy, you are on a roll today !!
Is there anyone here today, who still trust David Smith?
please answer
Jay
I am just angry that people are still hanging on to hopes and dreams.
This conman is worse than Carloss Hill,
The big question now is WHOES money is he using to defend himself/Olint?
What countries like TCI and Jamaica badly need is a law now on the books in the USA. You can use “tainted” funds to defend yourself/company. You have to PROVE that the money that goes to these attorneys are un-tainted. It’s almost impossible for a drug kingpin (and others involve in major criminal enterprise) to find a “high price” attorney to take their cases. If the attorney takes tainted funds they are liable and subjected to criminal prosecution. I know of a number of former Federal prosecutors who are now in Jail due to them knowingly accepting tainted funds…of course they have lost their law license and a spending a good stretch of time in Federal prison.
Have you guys notice how the same big name attorneys are always representing all these criminals in Jamaica? How are they being paid….cash I suppose, since these guys have no checking account!!
Additionally, we are all clueless as to what triggered the TCI investigation. Why?
MK.
The Banks only acted to protect their businesses. They have an obligation to safeguard their business against threats. Because of anti-money laundering legislation, and other regulations, they have to have certain controls in place. Some of those involve establishing source of funds, reporting transactions for amounts above a certain threshold, and reporting suspicious transactions. They have to make sure that their clients do not use them to wash dirty money.
If a UFO comes along and is not subject to regulation, is not transparent, has no visible controls to determine source of funds, know-your-customer etc. and just accepts money from ANYBODY, then clearly, that UFO can be used to launder dirty money. It is then a risk to a legitimate financial institution.
What do you expect a bank to do? A bank is well within it’s rights to give you back your money and advise you to move your account to another institution if it suspects your patronage violates their terms of service, or presents a serious risk to their business (and I don’t mean competition type risk).
So no. I don’t believe that the misfortunes of the UFOs were the fault of the banks. I believe that the UFOs succumbed to their own flaws – whether that be straight fraud, mismanagement, or poor business model.
Bwoy, Needy….for a moment there I thought you were Jason in disguise!
I can tell you one thing, that even though he was fired from JMMB, the family down there from Donna and Keith Duncan to the janitor will tell you that they are shocked and did not expect this of David.
CJ, I asked the question before. In your plan how are you going to control all the thousands of investors? It takes only one person filing a lawsuit to get a receiver appointed and the operations wound up. This does not deal with the many other issues like… if DS sank the ship in perfect weather when money was flowing in and everything was great… why are you now willing to believe he can steer the ship into safe waters when there are now storms all around?
It is this lack of attention to deductive reasoning and logic (sometimes called common sense) that caused most investors to get on or remain on the ship while such reasoning would have shown the ship would sink… not the fact that many were not aware of the negative things about DS. In the environment of greed and 10 % per month DS was a messiah with a cult like following.
In any case such info would have been treated by most as evil bad minded people trying to bring down DS when he is only trying to help the small man… I know because I am one of the long time detractors… every time we tried to open folks eyes we were cursed and vilified.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely !!!
DS was in total control and no hard question where being asked.
Even when the money stopped flowing and big sponsorship was being announce, no one asked the obvious question.
How on earth can he sponsor that and I cannot get paid, instead the cheered him along.
Headlines :
Olint sponsors Jazz Festival
Go Olint Go – “mek all d grudgeful and bad minded people tek weh demself”
Dave Sin
you are talking foolisness, even drug king pins have a right to pay lawyers in the States
anyway back to Jamaica
.
Lawyers collecting monies from their clients are exempt from our money laudering laws,
When it was drafted they were not exempt. but the Jamaican parliament changed this,
You have to remember that Parliament is full of lawyers, so they are going to change the law to protect their profession. After all when they are voted out they have to go to work, and only the druggist have money to pay them handsomely.
For example, who was defending the druggist the other day KD Knight.
This is the same KD Knight, former Minister of Justice, National Security and Foreign Affairs.
Ironically these are the 3 ministries that are involved in extradition proceedings.
Now that he has been voted out, what is he doing?
Representing and Crying foul to the druggists being extradited.
He was the person who signed the original extradtion treaty with the USA
Why did he not cry foul when he was a Minister and Signing these extraditions?
.
That is because he is a lawyer.
OK here is a pertinent question
Is there any trading platform that is going to allow a person who has been investigated for money laundering to trade on their platform?
KD Knight lock up the man them, then when voted out, he represents them, and then cries foul when they are ordered extradited.
If Peter Phillips was a lawyer, he would also be on the druggist them legal team as well, and crying foul when his new clients are extraadited.
Lawyers do not have loyalties, they are only loyal to their pockets.
Mk: Olint accepted only checks and wires and paid out with checks or wires, right? When someone went to the bank and got a draft to put their money into Olint… when they got back their interest payments or encashments as a check, what did they do with the check? Straight back into the bank, right?
When they went to the dealer to buy Prada, where did the dealer put the money? Back in the bank, right? When you leave your deposit in the bank, it costs the bank money to pay you interest, right? When you borrow loan or take out mortgage to put money into Olint, the bank made money… right? When you took out loan to buy house or car based on your money coming in from Olint, the bank made money… right?
Look at the banks financial statements they continued to make record profits. See how the lack of deductive reasoning and logic (common sense) led people to believe banks were conspiring against the UFO’s because they were afraid of the competition. The banks and legitimate FX traders play separate roles… can you make deposits and write checks on your account to pay your bills or get loans from Olint? Alas, common sense, common sense where forth art though?
Needy…
Dave Smith was never a “bruck pocket man”….he had several shares in JMMB under thier E.S.O.P (Employee Share Ownership Plan)…at one point it was in excess of 3 million..This is not far fetched because even one of JMMB’s beares had approximately 2 million JMMB shares.
more to come…….
nocotec, i am not saying that we have good options.
Option # 1.
Olint is wound up today. I watch the lawyers, accountants and BIG investors get the lions share of whats left and in about two years I get about $0.05 for every dollar I have if I am lucky.
Option # 2.
Get a proper accounting of Olint, so we know where we actually stand, and not where we hope we stand or where you hope we stand but where we really do stand. IF IT MAKES SENSE, then give him the 9 months with audited statements along the way so that us investors can assess his progress or lack of progress. At the end of 9 months I MAY recover something closer to the $1.00 I am owed.
The only persons harmed by option # 2 is those who just can’t wait to say, see we told you so! What they are forgetting is that REAL people for whatever reason are being harmed, this is not an abstract point to those people.
Show me who benefits from option # 1 (except the lawyers and accountants) or who else is harmed by option # 2?
BTW, I do not accept your assessment that one single investor could put Olint into receivership. The relationship between an investor and Olint and that between CPPL and Cash Plus are different.
A court will have to determine that, and as was demonstrated in the Jamaica Court of Appeal on Friday, you can never predict which way a court will rule on a given issue. There are things Olint could do from a legal standpoint to protect itself so that it would not have to go defending itself from 5,000 individual lawsuits.
AND NO, I AM NOT SAYING TO TRUST DAVID SMITH.
Needy:
I have lost total respect for you. WHY would you say something YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT? Do you want me to post the relevant articles which prove my point? Plus, you miss the point about TAINTED funds. Your lawyer has to prove that the funds that they receive are from untainted funds. How much you want to bet. As usual I will put up US $5,000.00 if you are predisposed to do the same. You will lose of course…since you don’t know what you are talking about…you want to bet? I hate to prove that you are an ignoramus!!
Based on your prior post I concluded you have some level of intelligence…what a hastily formed conclusion!
Mk: Olint accepted only checks and wires and paid out with checks or wires, right? When someone went to the bank and got a draft to put their money into Olint… when they got back their interest payments or encashments as a check, what did they do with the check? Straight back into the bank, right?
When they went to the dealer to buy Prada, where did the dealer put the money? Back in the bank, right? When you leave your deposit in the bank, it costs the bank money to pay you interest, right? When you borrow loan or take out mortgage to put money into Olint, the bank made money… right? When you took out loan to buy house or car based on your money coming in from Olint, the bank made money… right?
Look at the banks financial statements they continued to make record profits. See how the lack of deductive reasoning and logic (common sense) led people to believe banks were conspiring against the UFO’s because they were afraid of the competition. The banks and legitimate FX traders play separate roles… can you make deposits and write checks on your account to pay your bills or get loans from Olint? Alas, common sense, common sense whereforth art though?
Needy,
You really sound close to the ground …appreciate the info/perspective. That statement abt Keith, Donna & even the janitor being surprised is very telling – is history repeating itself?
Though I ultimately hold DS FULLY respon for what has happened I think we are being very naive to think that the banks with all their international connections and with them losing so many HIGH net worth individuals would not put a strategy in place to combat the Olint growth.
Let us remember however that many persons have leveraged themselves using bank loans to invest in OLINT. Banks are currently reflecting this as a part of their large profits – this will soon become a part of their BAD DEBT portfolio.
Needy…
DS was never a “bruk pocket” man… At one point he had approximately 5million shares in the Co. under its E.S.O.P programme (Employee Share Ownership Plan)…Heck one of the Comapny’s bearers had approximately 2 million…..
“Get the facts”
Needy:
Read this article about Gen. Manuel Antonio Noriega:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4DF123DF935A35756C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
Dave Sin,
I am not an idler, I do NOT speak about things that i know nothing about.
Trust me on this my friend.
I totally know what I am speaking about,
Notice I did not quote articles, I quote examples.
Articles mean nothing.
Mark Wignall had you all believing that David was the greated FX trader on earth.
If I bet you U$5000. you would lose.
CJ: you are incorrect. One investor with a good lawyer can get a receiver appointed… I know you think there is no proof… but deductive reasoning and logic should indicate that their was gross incompetence, fraud and mismanagement of the affairs of Olint… along with co-mingling of funds between DS and his wife and Olint’s accounts… In these circumstances a good lawyer would prevail in a civil suit.
As I have posted before… when you invest “what you can afford to lose”… you should also have a legal fund that you are also prepared to lose. And you should also know that part of your money will be used by the principals for an army of lawyers as part of their defense of themselves and the club. This is the reality of ponzi schemes.
Missing also in your plan of action is that there is a possible criminal case pending… not that you should not organize but a criminal case would sink your proposed plan.
Needy:
Here is another case about lawyers and the use of tainted funds. Tell me when to stop.
neeey: DaveSin is correct about USA law with respectt to lawyers having to prove the money came from untainted sources. I recall when the statute was passed and the Bar associations were very much opposed to it… I believe there may have even been a failed constitutional challenge (this part I do not fully recall)
Dave Sin,
I have read the article, this is foolisness
All accused in the USA have a right to legal representation, even people designated as Drug King Pins.
Do you notice that even the men at Guantanamo have lawyers.
If you cannot provide your own attorney the govt will provide one for you.
Not because you are involeved in drugs mean that all your money has been ill gained.
They cannot do that.
This article is only a case of the US govt trying to hold on to the mans money for themselves and not pay out any to the lawyers whose fees are a substantial part of it.
At the end of the day, the money will be released for his legal fees.
TRUST ME ON THIS
No nocotec, One investor and their lawyer CANNOT get a receiver appointed.
Only a court can do that. If it were that easy, then as soon as I had a dispute with any business, I would be off to court, lawyer in tow and have the business shut down. Come on!
Needy:
Sorry, I miss the link. You did not quote articles you quote examples…what then is the article point to? Silly!
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/03/26/miami-lawyer-ben-kuehne-indicted-by-feds-returns-fire/
Nocotec,
I hear you. Based on your COMMON SENSE reasoning which basically has everything going back to the banks – are u saying that there is no harm to the banks to lose their HIGH NET worth clients ?
Questions:
What abt the individuals who rolled their interests? outside of getting screwed now that money certainly did not go back to the banks – many persons rolled because of the compunding effect.
Many persons also took monies outside of Jamaica to offshore facilities – how did this benefit the local banks?
Do u really believe the banks have not been feeling it? Let’s see what their balance sheets will look like in another 6 mths – we all the non-performing loans.
Just to clarify what I meant to say that an investor and their lawyer by themselves could not get a receiver appointed. A court would have to rule on the request before a receiver could be appointed.
Dave Sin,
you can send me all the articles that you like. These ppl have a right to get and pay for their own legal representation.
Remeber that the US Justice system is predicated on the fact that
You are innocent until proven guilt.
The two Jamaican druggists that received 30 odd years recently were represented by Top florida private lawyers Schumacer and Einten who they paid for.
ARTICLE THAT.
needy: DaveSin is very much correct. I recall when the statute was passed. The Bar associations were very much opposed to it. I seem to recall there was a failed constitutional challenge (this part I am not sure of)…
See a prior post of mine… stick to commenting only on things you have knowledge of, or are sure about… this way you will always appear like you are an expert… by venturing outside of those areas you will cause your credibility to be questioned.
even if the banks were “feeling it” they did not sabotage Olint.
David Smith did that
CJ: yes I know that only the court can which is why earlier I said by filing a lawsuit. And yes the client and lawyer can get the court to do that and remove the affairs of the company from the control of the guy that committed fraud, co-mingling, mismanagement etc… to leave the affairs and money of the company in such a person’s hands would clearly be detrimental to investors…
MK: Look at the article on the Home page about what happens to the money in a ponzi scheme… Most of the money (70 %) in C+ ‘s case went back to investors… Most of Olint’s money already went back to investors and thus back to the banks.
I see we are getting heated again. Please keep the discussion going about the issues. No trading of insults please.
@C.J. , Nocotec.
The investors and lawyer going to the court could get the court to appoint a receiver/ have the company wound up
e.g.
1. Cash Plus, 1 Director and their lawyers went to the court) and
2. Cash plus being wound up the PLCA,1 entity and their lawyers, went to the court on June 13, 2008 and by June 27, 2008. The court agreed to have Cash Plus would up. 2 Weeks! and they got the go ahead
@needy you need send the info you have to hyipmyths [at] yahoo [dot] com. It has very revealing…. and point us to some more information.
nocotec & Davesin
CJ,
take note, I am here explainig something that I have knowledge about, yet I am being told to shut my mouth and stop talking.
I do not post articles,
I argue and name accurate events, yet I am told to shut my mouth, cause I do not know of what I speak.
If 3 months ago I had come on this blog and spoken about David’s lifestyle and why he was asked to resign from JMMB, even though the accurate events there for all to see, I would have also been summarily dissmissed then.
Everyone here would be telling me to shut up, and quoting Mark Wignall et al
History repeats itself, and we never learn.
John Doe,
which info are you specifically speaking about?
@ needy..
The issues that alleged almost caused JMMB to lose their license… David Smith alleged role … etc.. that lead to him being ‘asked to leave’.
p.s. ignore some of the bloggers here they can be rough at times. I apologize on their behalf. Please keep posting, most enlightening.
needy: I did not tell you or imply you should shut up. But with regards to your comment on the USA statute that lawyers cannot get paid with tainted funds… You are absolutely factual incorrect and you can easily check that information so check it or drop it.
With regards to your information on DS I am not saying you are incorrect. However I am pointing out to you that by making such strong posts on something that is definitely wrong and that is easy to check, you bring your credibility into question. This is a common tactic used in court. If the opposing attorney can prove you are wrong, lied or failed to check the facts on one issue then the jury is more likely to believe you are wrong on the other issues.
Instead of switching into attack mode you should heed my suggestions.
should be… factually incorrect
By the way needy we all need to be careful of absolutes.
I never believed a word of Mr. Wignall, so I am waiting on his real response like Robin Irie. This week’s response is clearly one of denial/No comment. He says in the article effectively that all his sources have dried up.
They used him just like how Cash Plus used another journalist.
Wignall on OLINT see bottom of article
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20080719T160000-0500_138054_OBS_LAW_ABIDING_CITIZENS_WANT_GUNS.asp
John Doe,
this information is not something that i could give you documentation of.
I only have knowledge of events during that period.
Anyone trader at any of the banks of Kingston trading houses or staff at JMMB can verify it.
Just check out the Jam Dollar rate during late 2003. It went from mid 50s to 1, all the way up to the high 70s, before settling at 60 to one.
News articles from that period, will show the concern that Omar Davies and the BOJ had at the time
A woman named Audrey from Manufacturers Merchant Bank (remember them), was arrested for this.
I dont know how this case ended, or if it is even still going on,
The timelines and facts are all there to see, and was the hot topic 4 years ago in local financial circles.
nocotec
I know that lawyers cannot get paid with tainted funds, that is factual.
You guys are however making it appear that a drugs man cannot hire a lawyer because all his funds are tainted.
Now that is not true.
I have only recently discovered this blog (approximately a week) and I have only made I think two brief posts. I am a Jamaican living now in Canada for approximately 7 years and have followed this OLINT story with amazement. I happen to be an investment advisor, a job I did both in Jamaica and here in Canada. I should add that I did my degree in Economics however I do not believe that this gives me any special knowledge on this issue. I have engaged in debates with many of my friends in the Jamaican community who have vehemently supported OLINT over the years. All of who are very well educated and have University degrees in various subject area and most of whom I consider to be very intelligent. A lot of these folks invest with me and I believe trust my judgment and despite my best efforts I could not convince many of the fallacy of the OLINT claims. I am going to use this blog to make an effort to try and explain without flaw that this is impossible and I want to challenge all the academics and bright minds in this area to refute my logic and show me how it was possible for OLINT or David Smiths claim to be possible.
Firstly and I read where Mr. Smith agrees with this FX trading is risky and there can be know guarantees. For a trader to promise Monthly returns while engaging in any kind of risky trading should come with a caveat that payments can be suspended without notice and investors (club members) should not plan there finances around monthly payments being a certainty.
Secondly, FX trading does not involve the production of goods or services. It is not like buying and holding a Stock and despite short term trading loss you can hope for the Company to grow its business and thus its value eventually leading to increase wealth for its shareholders either in the form of dividends or increase in share value. With FX trading, for you to win on one side of the transaction someone must be loosing on the other side of the transaction.
If you scorer the Forbes 500 list of wealthiest person you will find no one that made money by trading either in commodities, Stock, bonds, FX. Do not be fooled by the stories of George Soares. Both him and Warren Buffett have on occasion made some money like countless others have on occasion by making a currency bet. (Exactly what it is called a bet).
Now let us assume that David is this mythical trader who is always ahead monthly in his trade. Even assume that he has a time machine and could go ahead in time avail himself of the movement of every currency on earth and hence his bets could never go wrong. Let us see what this would lead to.
You can get a excel spread sheet widen the first column and input $100M at the top which is I think the lowest amount of Assets I here he has under management. In the line below multiply the first number by 1.1 to arrive at $110M, which is the amount he would have in month 2 if he were up 10% (for now we will ignore his spread). Now if you keep compounding $100M for 60 months or five years you would end up with assets of $27,680,149,049.22 to put this number in perspective this is approximately a quarter of Venezuela’s GDP. In Ten years he would have an amount approximately equal to the size of the GDP of the USA. (Compounding $100M by 10% monthly would give $8,428,097,165,257.36)
Now I know that there will be folks arguing that the calculation should be simple interest as there were people taking monthly payments. However not everyone did take monthly payments. Additionally, the amount of assets he was said to have was supposedly larger. I have done the calculation this way (even if exaggerated) to show that in due course. DS the mythical trader would in short order have taken everyone’s wealth in the FX market. It is like going to a casino. The amount you can win is not unlimited. It is dependent on how much others have to lose. If DS was really trading anywhere close to 50M or 100M he would have engaged in one of the largest transfer of wealth in mankind taking at least somewhere around the size of the California economy and passing it on to his club members in under five years. Jamaica would have recorded massive influx in wealth in the hands of local club members dwarfing MLC, Buffet or Bill Gates Assets.
Folks…..
This is the reality..
What has happened to Olint is a text book case of what happens when institutions grow to fast too quickly without the requisite managerial expertise, structure and controls. The day Dave Smith had more than 10,000 accounts under his control and started to manage more money than most Japanese Hedge Funds not to mention some in the U.S…Olint ceased being a club. Olint then became a bonafide financial institution, which unfortunatley was being run like a a little family club.
In addition I find it asinine that he put himself up as a principal in a US regulated forex brokerage house when he should have been under the radar.
Although I firmly believe that it was never his intention to deceive anyone from the begining…what is apparent is that overtime a convergence of factors resulted in things getting bad and then the snowball started growing in size:
1. In my humble opinion, I think DS..gave other traders managed accounts (probably 30% of funds under management) and just started to chill.
2. However unexpected huge draw downs which reportedly occurred between late last year and early this year (estimated between US$300M-US$700M) coupled with prior lossess and poor controls worsened the situation
3. I will also never absolve the formal financial sector from their contribution to this mess for example returing clients funds, cheques etc. but the truth now is that David’s defense has become significantly diluted in light of his poorly run operation and the stark similarity between the then”phantom” e-mail and his Attorney’s statement only two days later.
When all is said and done..the reality is that no trading platform will allow Olint TCI, Olint Corp and or David Smith to trade. Even if by some miracle he was allowed to trade…how on earth could he trade with his very freedom in jeopardy?
Folks the long and short of it is that growth while good must be planned for and carefully managed. Many large companies went out of business not necessarilly because of fraud…but very poor management and lack of controls…(which in some instances obviously will lead to fraud) .
It is often said that your greatest strength is often your greatest weakness. His desire to help ordinary people become welthy is the very samething that may lead to his demise
Those alternative investment schemes.
In retrospect, 2008 will be seen as the year that the alternative investment scheme bubble burst. The two leading schemes were Cash Plus and Olint. And they are slowly, but surely, being revealed as fraudulent. This comes as no surprise to me. But I was astonished, when visiting Jamaica two years ago, how many informed and intelligent people were taken in.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20080719T160000-0500_138055_OBS_THOSE_ALTERNATIVE_INVESTMENT_SCHEMES.asp
The above article has one piece of inaccuracy when trhe writer stated :
He responded by taking his operation out of the jurisdiction of the Jamaican authorities and registering it first in St Kitts and then to Turks and Caicos
“Olint was never registered in St Kitts.”
Funny story guys. I knew of a guy (an equity trader at a hedge fund) that was actually an awesome trader drunk. LOL. He would come in the morning all plastered trade and make like 500k by 11am and head to the bar for rest of day. Perhaps Super D should team up with this guy.
Banker- Great post.
we need a way forward.
fact is we have been conned.
hindsight is 20 /20
how can we get the best from whats left ?.
In Jamaica, Lawyers get rich, their clients do not. in Todays gleaner, the Police are not even getting paid for dying in the line of duties.. they have LAWYERs to dispute that.
This is hog heaven for Lawyers and accountants..
I have no confidence ( or money) to get lawyers.. I have more confidence in the conman to try to trade his way and give us back something ( which is the worst type of trading, trying to dig yourself out of a hole), but that is where my vote would go.
if I had to choose between David Smith and a lawyer conning me, I would choose David Smith, because the lawyer will shaft you every time, even when you win, they will take all the spoils and said nothing is left for you
Good post Banker… You are new but many of us (labeled as detractors) have made similar points for months.
The Third Side: All of this was simply a failure of investors to exercise common sense. If a person who is collecting money from the general public with the stated intention to trade it and return it with profits… And this person is not producing independently audited statements… And each time they is demanded from him, he runs and hides…
This person is to be avoided at all costs and not to be trusted with your money… If that is not basic common sense I do not know what is.
Banker,
I guess you never heard of Steven Cohen, Paul Tudor Jones, Eddie Lampert, John Paulson and many other TRADERS that are billionaires.
That being said most of your arguments are correct regarding how insane the premise is that you can guarantee 10% per month.
Third side I believe you are in denial.
You believe that OLINT is a text book case of organisation growing too big too fast. I believe OLINT is a text book case of Forex outfit turned PONZI.
That is why I back the FSC talk about “FIT AND PROPER” and REGULATION and why any organization that wants to handle people’s money must be regulated.
OLINT it seems had absolutely no interest in getting regulated… and the reasons were apparent to many of us a long time but little by little people are seeing the sorry truth about OLINT.
Audits do just that. Audits point out were there are points of poor management Audits point out were there are week controls.
banker, great post.
e-mail us at hyipmyths [at] yahoo [dot] com so we can discuss some issues with you.
to raas….eh, oonu post too fast…..the mount a readin just to “catch up”
so today we have two columnists in the Observer speaking on the issue (Wignall and Abbott)
There are also two news articles in the “Dollars and Sense” section of the Sunday Herald.
In one of the Herald’s articles (http://www.sunheraldja.com/article/show/1253), it has the following:
“Olint Corporation, which has between US$600 million and US$1 billion under management”
……again has the final amount under management been proven? Perhaps I am just being too technical but I believe the word “estimated” should always precede such statements..since no one to date has any documentation outlining the figures
Banker that was such an intelligent post.
It goes to simple facts,
We do not even have to question his lifestyle to see that what promised was impossible.
kullcull:
I will not name any names but one or more of the high powered lawyers will now get back their money that was lost in the schemes 🙂 When I found out about the investment (long before the crash)… seriously, my thought at the time was I bet this person will be on the legal team eventually… I was like, how can persons like this fall for this, geez.. as most of us know many prominent Jcans also succumbed to the lure of the Sirens (UFOs)… luring many Jcans ships onto the cliffs of despair.
How Mark Wignall mean say that him not writng about things that he knows nothing about?
Wasnt that what he was doing for the past 4 years?
nocotec…..
The notion of a lack of common sense is certainly not applicable to all investors. Many, inculded myself invested sums that we could afford to loose. Asinine investors are those who sold thier houses to invest in Olint.
In addition, there is a trading module used by many “underground clubs” that works just fine. Let me explain:
1. I have $10M under management
2. I decide to only trade 30% or 3 million of the $10M.
3. I leverage the 3Million like hell …for example my risk per trade on the 3Mill is 4%
4. If my standard risk is 60 pips and at the very least my profit limit is 1:1 i.e. 60 pips it means if I net 500 pips per month I’m looking at approximately 34% per month.
5.All is well provided that I do not have significant withdrawls, which in any event your “float” can be used to offset some of those withdrawals..if necessary
In essence I’m saying that there are models out there that work just fine. However, when u grow too fast and too huge in a short time failure is a possibility.
John Doe…
I am not in denial just adding a diffrenet perspective to the discussion; one which is not far fetched and cannot be overlooked thats all
killcull: The only real option are going to be lawsuits… see the other blog… even some of the long time supporters now recognize this… any other action will likely become moot eventually as it just takes one or more lawsuits to derail any other action.
As I have said this is the reality of ponzi schemes… invest in them and you better have a legal fund also… some liked to call it investing money you can afford to lose. As is now apparent, no one really had money they could afford to lose.
Alright we not going to start that argument about “investing what we could afford to lose.”
If you did, you would not be this blog. When you buy a lotto ticket that is “investing what we could afford to lose”
The Third Side:
Your last comment was not responsive to my point about common sense… Your scenario may be fine. But any person that is taking money from the public and refusing to provide audited statements and runs and hides when they are requested is to be avoided at all cost. That is common sense… It is irrelevant even if he was in fact the world’s greatest trader. Common Sense should say, something has got to be wrong and this guy is to be avoided.
John Doe….nonsence..and u know that…r u implying that everyone in this blog is in a world of hurt…or this blog is some sort of support group.
There are always different perspectives to any issue
Something is wrong with these journalists. You guys read the Sunday Herald article. When you have no facts. how many times are we going to have to tell them
Sunday Herald.
1. THERE WAS NO RAID INVOLVING US OR BRITISH AGENTS. It was a TCI Police operation and only assets in the TCI have been frozen.
2. OLINT has NO OFFICE in MIAMI!!!!
Sad, sad,sad. Needy that is why Wignall can write the rubbish he wrote.
@third side fair enough. You are new to this blog and possibly others, so I will understand. It is just that we have been hearing the same things for months now will the as the OLINT drama unravels it has been showing quite the opposite.
BTW investforlife blog on Forbes now 🙂
http://www.forbes.com//feeds/ap/2008/07/18/ap5229990.html
nocotec……I do not disagree with the common sence issue..nor am I implying that he is the world’s greatest trader….there are many things wrong with Olint’s operations……but hindsight is always 20/20
John Doe:
I think you have to be careful about any US role in this whole Olint debacle. The TCI case might (speculation) have a US angle. TCI police say that the investigation was triggered by “internal” TCI request. Its not clear to me why the TCI police cannot come out and say that X (without naming names) issued a fraud accusation.
Its frightened to think that internal TCI “claim(s)” triggered the raid. You thoughts?
@third side I am not implying that “everyone in this blog is in a world of hurt”.
I was direct in my criticism and no offense was meant. In my humble opinion, Investing in OLINT was not a wise decision.
To say that “that they only invested what they could afford to lose”, to me, that is a cop out for a unwise decision. Conmen will love people with that sort of thinking. You are prime targets as you handover your spare change and sooner or later you tell your friends and next thing you know we Cash Plus/Olint Disaster on our hands.
John Doe,
Believe it or not there is a term called “risk capital”…Capital that can be invested hoping for the best but recognizing that if things do not work out u won’t loose your mind
Wha sah “investforlife” make it into the Forbes link. 🙂
Fine. The NFA investigation might have trigger the raid.
However the FACT is there was NO RAID in MIAMI, NO OLINT office in miami.
and no joint operation. It was a local operation “words from the month of the deputy commish”
Now if he is lying that is another thing
We do know there is no OLINT office in Miami.
Johny P
In my business I have met or here of all these and other individuals. Additionally, I have been solicited directly or indirectly by these individuals to place my clients money in funds they manage or people who work for them manage. The way their storys are glamorised even in main stream media is to give the impession that they are some sort of day trader. Nothing is further from the truth. Believe me when I say that in all cases these guys buy a few companys and hold them over time. Even Cohen who was a hedge fund manager took large positions in comodities that he had to hold for a time. MLC who borrowed $500K and made I think close to a Billion on one trade. Had to hold that positon and watch it fluctuate before realizing his pay day. They were not sitting around making continious active trade all the time is my point. Not that they did not on occasion. A lot of the wealth attributed to them is also a valuation of the companies they run.
Third side. Risk Capital I know the term. Actually this blog knows the term very well.
From an academic point you are absolutely correct but the problem is that in reality it has become the one of the biggest excuse for handing over money to conmen and con women (Cash Plus, Higgins Warner, May Daisy and do I have say OLINT?)
. It is from that perspective that that it annoys the hell out of me.
You know what else, as you talk about risk, The sad thing is people who invested in multiple UFOs/AIS/PONZIs claiming they were diversifying their risks
Third Side on another note. Can you name all of OLINTS feeder and Affiliate clubs?
Banker… I am a dunce bat maybe you can talk about risk capital and how it relates to un-regulated and anti-regulation organisations like OLINT
John Doe,
Re: affiliate clubs..I know about
1. Lewfam and
2. F1
not sure about the others
John Doe..re”Risk Capital”
classic example….
1. I risked 20% of my money by putting it in Olint
2. I still have all of my Jamaican blue chip stocks
3. All of my bonds
4.All of my money market instruments
5. a 9-5 job
6.I also trade on the spot forex
R u implying that I was unwise to have put money in Olint?
The Third Side:
Folks often fail to distinguish marketing talk from info pertinent to their situation… People in the financial adviser broker world love to come up with terms that make them sound important… This is marketing jargon meant to separate you and your money… E.g., One of the latest… Demand Destruction, used to refer to a reason why the price of oil may fall.
These terms are used to make them sound important, more knowledgeable than the “mark” (being a little sarcastic) and sophisticated. The mark is more likely to invest in those conditions. Risk capital sounds sophisticated… much better than saying to the mark… hey, do you have any money to throw away on a long shot? That is the reality and real meaning of the term.
I often ask people… Is this not easier? 95 % of people lose at FX trading so only 1 in 20 win… rather than staying up nights and reading and studying like crazy to bet in the FX market… Why not just go to Caymanas or another race track and bet on the 20 to 1 long shot in every race? A lot easier and you are betting against the same odds. And every once in a while the 20 to 1 long shot will win too.
That idea does not sound as bright like some dude telling you to invest your risk capital in the FX markets. This is the reality of the very sophisticated term, risk capital.
about 5 years ago there were Pyramid schemes in Montego Bay.
When they went bust, I thought to myself that there was no way that this would rear its head in Jamaica for the next 20 years.
I cannot believe that this happened so fast again.
I honestly believed that David was trading FX market at the time.
How stupid I was
Banker – I am not aware of Olint “promising” monthly returns. Are you saying club members were legally promised a return?
needy: you are new but a few of us have been at this a while… we have been labeled detractors, cussed, vilified and banned from some sites…
I spoke about Speedy Cash Plan (Esmie Jones) and the others a while back… CH and Olint started about the time she flamed out…
Give it at most a few years… new scams will be back in JA. Jcans love to believe in conspiracy theories. Our folk hero is Anancy… the hero who loves to beat the system. Fine during slavery but now the person we are beating is ourselves. The conmen thrive on that. They tell people is fight big man, banks, government, FSC , MLC, ad infinitum a fight dem and do not want to see the small man get rich. Jcans love to slurp up that stuff… so we send money.
needy said on July 20th, 2008 at 8:32 am:
“Well I hope that all the ppl here who used to say that DS was a christian are seeing the light now. This man was always drunk, gambling and hanging out in strip clubs”….needy, sounds to me like you are describing exactly how some christians behave.
nocotec,
you know what is ironic,
All of these ppl have been trying to protect us against ourselves.
Just think
When the FSC told Olint to provide balance sheets etc, who were they protecting? US
When Omar davies warned us who was he Protecting ? US
Everyone who warned US was protecting US.
Yet what did we say?
Nuh show dem nothing, a nuh fi dem biznizz.
Can you believe it, we were telling Olint not to show us things that would protected US at the time.
And even today a pastor writes in the Gleaner that he thinks everything is still ok.
We need protection from US.
xzyled
I am going out on the road now, but at least you have given me a good laugh
YouTube:
Jamaican Investment Club Olint implodes:
ho;d up needy don’t leave yet……
Mikki Said: …”Banker – I am not aware of Olint “promising” monthly returns. Are you saying club members were legally promised a return?…”
I saw an Olint site where the 10 % was prominently displayed. Funny, I’m looking for the site and I cannot find it! It was an Olint site and it stated 10 %! I hope I come across it again.
It not say approximately, et.c, etc….it just stated that 10 % number.
needy just think back to when FSC became involved and start becoming vocal……then tell me if their insertion of themselves into the UFO’s does not invite several questions.
So needy, don’t hold up FSC like a pyriah.
The economic situation in Jamaica and the fact that Jamaicans are cultured in the habit of instant gratication gave rise to several of these UFO’s and mark my words, more will come.
So what’s the moral of the story……’A Man Must be Thought to have Intended the Natural & Probable Consequenses of His Own Action’…..so said Mutty Perkins last Friday all Friday.
After reading some of the recent posts on the other site it is now clear to me why any dissent was not tolerated. People did not want any negative news to affect the outcome! A lot of people have a lot to lose and would do their very best to silence any thoughts to the contrary!
I am not implying. I am telling you in my opinion, over 2 years ago, it was an unwise decision to invest in OLINT.
DaveSin et al help me out….what other sit4es and where is the #4 & #5 bus?????
xzyled:
This is about the fouth time I have posted this link. It was posted earlier today on this same thread:
Here goes (again) – #4 / #5 (Olint Misinformation) Bus:
http://invest4life.wordpress.com/investment-clubs-2/
I think The Third Side has brought some good balance to the overall discussion.
hey fellows
I think i might have to eat my words
Things are not looking good as DS lived it up his members are suffering.
How many of can survive this so call nine month
Their is a big meeting this week on the north coast with some big investor, they are putting things in placed to forward, this include invetigation on DS
People are really suffering while he sit in his mansion
mk…
thanks..al lot…that’s all I’m trying to do
xzyled said “needy just think back to when FSC became involved and start becoming vocal……then tell me if their insertion of themselves into the UFO’s does not invite several questions. … So needy, don’t hold up FSC like a pyriah.” xzyled: read needy’s post earlier today about DS. Do you think FSC knew about it?
Referring to DS’s alleged involvement in an fx trading scam, needy also said earlier today “insider trading governments money does not really make you a thief by the standards that we have set for ourselves in Jamaica”. Someone else noted that one of the traders in the ring was charged and faced a trial in the RM court and wondered what happened afterwards. She was acquitted.
I think, though, that this shows that the activity she was accused of was a crime. This is what DS was supposedly involved with. So my question to xzyled: do you think FSC new about it?
John Doe..
I respect your opinion and the fact that everyone is entitled to their own…so in essence we agree but we also agree to disagree…
u think it was unwise to invest in olint…I say If u can afford the risk without loosing your mind if u never ever get back your money..then its all good ..its like loosing $5 out of $100.00 knowing that u can always make back the $5…everything is relative
AMEN so let this “risk capital” argument be
Come to think of it, since DS himself would know the truth of needy’s information, is that why he never wanted to get regulated?
Why did the gleaner even bother to report that useless information now LOL!
Why didnt they do it months?
I told people a long time ago about DS at PLantinum night club, people still swear up and down that he was a christian. I will say it again christain my ass!
You know how many people LAUGHED when a told them I only had $2000 with Olint.
I am a trader I started 3 years ago.
I started with a $4,000 deposit, trading on 30,000 leverage which means one pip equals $3. I only trade 3 times a week….I worked out a plan for how much I was willing to risk per trade. My stop loss was 35 pips. SO I was willing to risk $105 a trade. In order for me to lose half of my account I would have to do 19 consecutive bad trades in a row. AT the end of that year I had 16K.
MY second year I used $7000 with 50,000 leverage, this equals $5 a pip. I am willing to risk 175 a trade. It would take 20 losses for me to lose half my intial investment. That second year I made 26K.
I am in my third year of trading and I am hopefully I can hit 45k.
If THIS is gambling then I am too damn lucky!
Forex trading is a Job. Not every one can be a doctor, lawyer, surgeon, nurse, etc. You know how many people drop out of law school or Medical school? I guess those individuals are gambling too?
And thats my opinion from since I ACTULLY trade forex and know people who LOST their shirt and others that are doing well.
Welcome back, janice.
Miachica…
Amen, Amen, Amen…. could not have said it better
trading is a gamble when u risk more than u can afford to risk…and hope that things go your way.
I have been trading for 2 1/2 years and have done pretty well…yes there have been months when I have been down but because of very good risk and equity management i have never been down more than 4.5% in a month and this has happened 3 times in my 2 1/2 years….many have crashed and burned..and many have done much better than I have and believe me I have done pretty well.
To all those who think forex trading is a scam..take the time to learn and do not criticize what u don’t know about
Ok I am back.
The FSC might not have known about David’s activities, but the BOJ certainly did.
They were the ones who insisted that he be removed from his postion, despite Donna and Keith Duncan’s objections.
The FID also knew about it. Sturridge was incharge at the time.
I need to learn how to trade,
maybe one of these days I can visit one of you and watch a live trade.
I have bought all the books, but they are gathering cobweb.
miachica
That is the gambler’s fallacy. Look at the statement, 1 in 20 do win. No one is saying no one wins. Gamblers win and some go on a hot streak. Check the tenure at the trading desks of the big firms. The tenure is short because the hot hands burn out or flame out. When there is no or inadequate oversight some of these traders (FX or otherwise), as in the famous cases can bring the bank down.
For every 1 who says how much they have won, there are 19 losers. The problem is most everyone only posts about how much they have won and how well they have done. The 19 almost never talk about how much they lost. And the 1 winner almost never talks about it when they start to lose.
When you gamble, ALL the money you will be lost. When you trade you use stop loss so all your money is NOT at risk. TRading is gambling for people that DONT know what they are doing. Your saying that it is gambling based on the high RATE OF FAILURE is garbage!
Stop generalizing; the dropout rate at MED SCHOOLS is 80%. With only a 20% sucess rate, your agrument would classify that as “Gambling” too LMAO!
Listen trading is not easy it is very complex…being a docor is eaxctly the same way. Look at the amount of students that dropout of med school. Those are institutions. If you want to be a trader their is NO instiution for you to go to for 1 year or two to learn. It is up to the individual.
What I am doing sounds like gambling to you..so your saying that I am just that damn lucky?
Have you EVER traded anything in your life(dont lie know lol) it dosent soudn like you have?
Most indivduals cannot properly teach themselves how to trade….That is why in forex 90% of traders fail.
nocotec…
whap, whap, slap…lol,lol
Third Side nuff respect. We agree to disagree.
Solutions…
most people here are somehow connected to Olint
how can we move forward.
there is a call for Unity, let that be.
we must also be realist. there will be some automatic lawsuits.
F1 and LewFAM will sue Olint automatically, this is called CYA ( cover your ass ), so F1 and LewFAM will pass the blame to Olint.
Big pigs will also sue Olint , as a means of passing the blame from their piglets who will now be seen as an annoyance pestering them for money or updates.
small investors < $20,000 just cannot afford lawyers, the legal fee will eat up everything.
there will be several groups based on individual circumstances, each will be looking for their own interest.
The big players ( I$$A etc) is rumored to have gotten their cut and run,
So it will be an unholy alliance, with the big players vs the small players and the pigs vs the piglets
when little bit of money is to be divided amongst many people will usually result in a dog eat dog situation
those are the problems as I see it, solutions are welcome.
the ‘I told you so’ can be saved for courses at universities or for those who are writing a book
MIACHICA,
SPOT ON!!! Can’t agree more. Case in point, I have a friend (not imaginary he’s sitting beside me) taking Microsoft Certification courses and exams, and it’s expensive, call it $8000US for the course and then paying roughly $125US for each of the 7-8 exams.
He says that at each course section, in the beginning is nuff people in the class like 40, then close to the end is just him and like 3 other people how manged to tough it out. NUff people wasted their $8g’s and dropped out b/c the classes and exams were tough – but I know their reasoning in the beginning is that how tough could it really be? Well it was hard as sh*t and only a few managed to come through.
When I took my series 7 (brokers license) the number of people that take the exam and fail (not pass) is over 70% (i passed by the way) . My conclusion is the same as yours not everyone is cut out to be Microsoft certified, doctors, lawyers, stock brokers, AND FX traders.
This is what is some sad… Diversification in Ponzi Schemes
“I also invested with MD and that was “lost” also.
I am aware that a lot of my friends invested in what they thought were different trading clubs but which all led back to David. This i have a serious problem with because i feel say let david give me grief becuase i knew upfront what i was getting into but what about the persons who proclaimed to have dem own club and own trader and is DS them give the money or Ingrid.”
Taken from the other blog…
@third side check out this post… https://investforlife.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/how-olint-survived/
It shows all the clubs we know that link back to OLINT
John Doe…..
nuff respect thanks for the link…
kullcull……
forget about the money…move on ..no matter how stormy the weather…the sun will shine again
Reality is starting to hit home on the #4 bus.
Yes folks, this is what things really look like outside of the matrix.
Who are the people influencing DS these days and with whom is He committing fornication with?
Have he aborted the prophetic assignment?
Well He is being wipped to position him back to basic ; for his must finish the race ( Do Forex trading )for the poor , the voiceless and the left behinds. Nuh so?
Who are the people influencing DS these days and with whom is He committing fornication with?
Has he aborted the prophetic assignment?
Well He is being wipped to position him back to basic ; for his must finish the race ( Do Forex trading )for the poor , the voiceless and the left behinds. Nuh so?
Does anyone believe that Jared Martinez / MTI (Market Traders) who aligned himself with David Smith as a good student / trader and who markets their expensive course and classes to Jamaicans has any responsibility in this?
His company has already been tied to Olint and to MayDaisy.
He talk a good talk in the class and when he speaks but all these events look negative from where I sit.
Does he plan to host these classes in Jamaica anymore and expect them to be sold-out? or will he just take them on to the next country again.
Just in December he teamed up with David to offer jamaicans a chance to open I-trade accounts.
I honestly don’t think he’s squeaky clean. If he’s as rich as he said perhaps he should underwrite the loan David now has and bail him out.
I want to hear what he’s going to say at his next online session this week or will he just skip over all that’s happening especially since a lot of people now perceive Forex as a bad thing thanks to David Smith poor business abilities.
john doe are talking about ingrid loiten who run maydaisy are saying that she was giving DS her money??
I am looking at the the last Private Club member Agreement……the very first paragraph states:
“This agreement is made the __day of _____between Hallmark Bank & Trust Ltd………….referred to as “the Company” and __________ hereinafter referred to as “the customer”……
Is it me or members have signed an agreement between themselves and Hallmark Bank & Trust rather than Olint TCI…??????….
Bob u seem to have a law background…please assist…is this significant or am I reading too much into it??
olint and maydaisy are they linked ????????????????????///////////////////////// was she giving david smith her money to trade??????????????????????????is that what mr john doe is saying
y
Then again the document does mention Olint TCI as the investment Manager..so i guess DS has not gotten away afterall
Realist
I do not think they really understand what is going on on. If the U. S is a standard to follow this is how these things are resolved.
After a determination of the assets, they will go after people who made money and place a court order on them to return it.
E.G You put in $100,000 in 2005, by Nov 2007 it is 400,000. You decide to take out $300,000. You have essentially profited by $200,000 and you will be asked to return the $200,000, if you cannot pay your assets would likely be freezed.
That is how it is dealt with in the States. Now if they take that approach the people who lost may get back some money, but in truth recovering the money is usually impossible as its difficult to track down and some people may have just already spent it.
So more than likely because DS is essentially bankrupt the assets that are left may be able to pay out 3-5 cents on the dollar, on the amount you ORIGINALY INVESTED and not the fantasy statement that was sent out with fake gains.
Eg
So total inputs could be $100,000 you see it grow to $250,000 without withdrawing anything, by the end of the courts/auditors etc you may get back $3000-$5000 if you are lucky.
The Third Side:
That is an interesting observation!! Why would a legitimate bank allow the use of their name on such an agreement? I’m curious as to what others have to say about such an observation.
realist
Another thing they are saying on the other blog is give DS 9 months to recover. DS has NO RECORD of being a profitable trader, and every opportunity he has had to show how good he is he has chosen the route of non transparency. DS is a rum head that is addicted to gambling and not a forex trader, so what would you expect him to say? The same thing all gambling addicts say “Just give me one more chance and I can win it back”
I advise that IF you get any money at all out of Olint ( which I strongly doubt) you take it and dont let it go near that Con Man.
Jason
When I said reality was setting in, I was referring to the comments over there to the effect that the real risks they were taking in investing in these clubs is now hitting home to them. Many people thought the only risk was the Fx trading or whatever other money making tactics were in play. Many never gave thought to operational risk of the business/club itself, internal controls and lack thereof nor the background and behaviour of the principals.
They are shell-shocked over the real reason DS left JMMB.
The reality that blind faith in the wrong things lead them astray is starting to set in.
Jason,
I agree with you 100% about not giving him any more money to trade ( Mi nuh know if im is a rum head or not), but he certainly does not pass the “fit and proper test”
Response to Bob July 20th, 2008 questions to me at 4:27 pm
Bob, I see you US$200M that the FSC very well knew and I raise you US$750M that because of politics their hands were tied (literally behind their backs)….the question to ponder is why did Mr. Wynter left FSC and immediately as Mr. Roper stared acting, he (Mr. Roper) became relentlessly vocal…..their after forums, workshops and advertisments started occuring.
Mia/ Third Side
When you and make money, where does they money come from?
realist
Ok I understand
jay
You are correct. Rum was not his drink of choice i hear
Robin Irie…
from the broker via the brokers bank…
oh by the way I made my usual withdrawl from the broker platform last week and needless to say I got my money as usual within two days…so for all the naysayers..the money is not locked in cyberspace…..unlike u know who.
The Third Side
Thanks.
Where does the broker get the money from?
Robin Irie….
I know where u r going with this
I say brokers bank…some say other people who lost…the jury is still out on that one…
bottom line i have been wiring $ for two and a half years to my account here in Jamaica and never one day had a problem getting my $$$$. never
in essence forex trading works…provided u exercise good risk and equity management
The Third Side
The jury is not out on that at all. I know how it works.
I am not saying that forex trading does not work. There is money to be made BUT it is not different from gambling because:
1). You get money that others lost the same way I get money at the dice table?
1). Once you have taken your position you cannot control the direction the exchange rate will go.
3). You can hedge your risk; a term borrowed from hedging your bet just the same way a gambler does.
4). You use sophisticated software just as the handicapper and actuaries do fo the bookmaker.
Robin Irie..
semantics aside….I am sure many will say that forex trading is akin to gambling…but the truth is I have never in the two and a half years that I have been trading met a successful trader who thinks he’s gambling only unsuccessfull ones think that way .
I have been privilidged to interact with traders from Argentina all the way to Australia, all of whom despite making losses from time to time which is normal ( afterall I have made my fair share) have never referred to it as gambling.
Incidentally do u actually trade or have u just been reading about trading?
Robin Irie,
IN the forex world a market maker is a BANK or forex dealer that provides publicly quoted prices for specific currency pairs.
Market makers add liquidity and provide and provide
a two sided market. Retail investors go through license forex dealing firms because they have access to the price and liquidity of international banks.
The transactions are done through banks, it is not because someone is on the “losing side a trade”. There are not enough retail investors to “LOSE” to keep the trillion dollar forex market liquid!
Some traders go directly through ECN brokers that have direct feeds from the bank..very low spread and you cut out the market makers…People like FXCM etc.
SO if forex is gambling because of the high probability of trading then so is being a doctor, lawyer surgeon, etc…
Why dont you giv eup the stupid uninformed argument.
The first book I read was “The idiots guide to foregin currency trading”. It will answer ALL the questions you have.
*losses
I guess my friend that never made it in med school, I should have just tol him, “hush you know it was just a gamble”. LOL!
whap whap slap…lol,lol
Robin Irie…
the moral of the story is…”never confuse your opinion with expert advise”
The Third Side
No I don’t but I use the markets in my employed capacity. My employer is a multinational so we use the forex system all the time to our benefit. And I am talking about huge sums.
Mia
If it waddles like duck and quacks like a duck then its a duck. Continue calling it a chicken if you will.
And you are wrong about the level of participation in the retail market.
Robin Irie…no worries…never a problem getting a different perspective..
….for the record i use a No dealing desk based platform…price feed maipulation is never a problem for me…
heck I would’nt still be trading for 2 1/2 years if I was’nt making money..lol,lol
This are all Financial institution
NOT
retail investors
The ten most active traders account for almost 73% of trading volume, according to The Wall Street Journal Europe.
Top 10 currency traders
% of overall volume, May 2008 Rank Name Volume
1 Deutsche Bank 21.70%
2 UBS AG 15.80%
3 Barclays Capital 9.12%
4 Citi 7.49%
5 Royal Bank of Scotland 7.30%
6 JPMorgan 4.19%
7 HSBC 4.10%
8 Lehman Brothers 3.58%
9 Goldman Sachs 3.47%
10 Morgan Stanley 2.86%
FXDD, FXCM, Itrade FX are Market Makers… Most retail ivestors such as myself trade through MARKET MAKERS…They dont have have the money that investment banks do.
There are two types of retail brokers offering the opportunity for speculative trading. Retail forex brokers or Market makers.Retail traders (individuals) are a small fraction of this market and may only participate indirectly through brokers or banks
Again I urge you to read, “The idiots guide to foregin currency trading”.
All these information is from wikepedia and “The idiots guide to foregin currency trading”.
Robin Irie,
Your head TUFF thats all mi haffi say..but you free to MAKE UP anyhting you like…just dont try to pass it off as FACT….LOL!
Robin Irie..throw in the towel..lol,lol…oh the pain..lol,lol
miachica…
FXCM is a no dealing desk broker…suttle but significant difference from a market maker…but nevertheless I am on your side..lol,lol,lol
Hey some people think stocks are akin to gambling, commodites are gambling and forex. I know a couple of good traders and also make money out of the markets myself.
Obviously day trading is more volatile but there are people who make money out of it. The problem is that most people do not and end up failing. The number one cause of failure is too high expectations of the market. People want to enter with 5000 and turn it into 40,000 in a couple of months. If you think like that then you are in fact gambling.
Once you have the proper “tools” you can make money out of ithe markets. 10% per month is not sustainable over the long run, but including forex in one’s portfolio is not a bad idea if you know what you are doing.
Jason,
Exactly you gotta creep before you crawl.
The Third Side
Saw your question about the agreement but I think others answered you better than I could have.
xzyled
Why would politics tie Wynter and not Roper?
BTW – My memory has the advertisements, forums etc starting before Wynter left. Do you remember one newspaper interview (Gleaner I think) with the headline quoting him saying “Olint will fail if it doesn’t get licensed” or something like that?
Bob
truth be told I either missed or misinterpreted the responses but i don’t think that question was addressed ….maybe it was none issue afterall..lol,lol
Well, the answer to your question is: everything in your agreement with Olint is significant. You should definitely have a lawyer friend look at it for you and give you some free advice. Then you can decide if you want to go to another lawyer and pay for it. lol Either way, get professional legal advice.
That’s my advice anyway.
Bob
speaking of advise …my advise to everyone( including myself) is to forget about the $$ and move on..
QUESTION TO ALL BLOGGERS..WHAT IS THE ONE THING THAT WE EVENTUALLY HAD AFTER HURRICANE GILBERT, IVAN AND DEAN??…
I wish I could offer u your $$ with DS as a prize but for now..based on how things look a dozen oranges will have to suffice…lol,lol…
ANY TAKERS???
I believe all olint investors are cowards!. DS is just going to walk away with investors money. Nine months is a long time to wait after waiting for over six months already. There must be something we can do, before squat is heard of DS.
I know that he is not walking away with my money, and I am not getting any lawyers or anything like that, or waiting either.
Losing money trading is one thing, but partying wth people money and then coming to ask for time is unacceptable
The top FOREX Hedge fund percentage gainer in 2007, gained over 270% that year. That Fund did not even make the top 10 for 2008, YTD. Here is a list of the top 10 FOREX Hedge Fund traders through May 2008:
Gain/(Loss) Gain/(Loss) Funds
Rank May 2008 YTD Managed
1 5.83% 28.45% $14.0M
2 2.54% 17.15% $36.0M
3 2.70% 11.68% $115.0M
4 3.12% 10.36% $475.7M
5 2.08% 9.28% $164.0M
6 2.89% 7.97% $2600.0M
7 3.80% 5.75% $25.2M
8 2.46% 3.77% $18.0M
9 2.60% 3.13% $295.0M
10 3.06% 2.70% $47.0M
Names and link to firms ranked above in same order:
1 24FX Management Ltd.
2 Boston Trading & Research(Devrim FX – Platinum)
3 Glitnir Bank(GLB FX)
4 Auriel Capital Management LLP(Auriel Currency 2X)
5 FX Concepts, Inc.(Multi-Strategy)
6 FX Concepts, Inc.(Global Currency)
7 DKR Capital Inc.(DKR Strategic Currency)
8 Gain Capital Management(MAC 4X)
9 Harmonic Capital(Global Currency Fund)
10 DynexCorp Ltd.(Currency)
As an active FOREX trader, this has been and continues to be a difficult year for us. And, nobody, not even the great DS can consistently and legitimately generate a positive % gain every month over the long term.
May God’s Peace be with all of you who have invested with OLINT.
PIPSologist
This is my first time posting. I am (or was – as it now seems) an Olint investor. I recommended a numer of persons for membership because I heard of DS’s christian background. It was said in the early days that he was caught trading moneys for his friends on the FOREX outside of JMMB accounts and that was why he was asked to leave JMMB. He also never promised a guaranteed return of 10% p/m, but said that over a year it could average that amount, therefore, no one squealed when they got 4% in a month – after all, this was what the banks gave you in a year. That made it real. We now hear that Olint has no money, and though that is bad, the worst part of it all is him lying to us that there was some two hundred and fifty million being wired which should have gotten here (Jamaica) by Thu 10 July, and when you call on the Wednesday and you are told either Thu or Fri, then by the weekend you hear that the offices are going to be closed, while all this time the great DS is living the high life in TCI, trying to impress people who probably only care for him because he is spending Jamaica people money living large, and entertaining politicians at his birthday bash in TCI while telling us that he has no money to give us. Can I ask two question, what happened to the 80% secured fund he had holding for us in some account somewhere – supposedly at Wachovia? He was only exposing us to a 20% risk, right? And the sad reality I am now left with is that I won’t be going back to university this year thanks to DS (yes, I know it was crazy to invest all that, please don’t rag on me…). We really need to pull together and decide on a solution and not let ego lead us into squabbles about what is gambling and what is not. I had money on the stock market being managed by professionals at the month and fruit place and they lost half of it… You know, I am actually not surprised that they were getting threats at Olint, especially when he had BEE-HATCHES sitting on their high arses in his office telling us “you people really need to manage your finances better you know…” Well news flash Ms BEE-HATCH – YOU HAD IT (our finances that is) AND YOU @#$%ING LOST IT!!!
Bob, that’s an interesting question, one to which I would like an answer.
On the matter of advertising Bob, stop, check and come back to me again with when the adverts etc. started.
The consensus in certain circles is that FSC knew about Olint as did they about Cash Plus.
So I will end with the question you asked…..why was Mr. Roper in his acting position, so empowered????
The Third Side
I did not see your post yesterday,
David had aproximately J$12million in the ESOP at JMMB not 3mil
Anyway when you are speaking about a man,
who has over U$1billion under management
gambles over U$100 thousand per night
he was at that time really a bruck pocket man.
As an aside to all this – I had read where DS said he would trade for the Govt. of Jamaica. To date, I have no clue whether he was a trader turned conman or just conman – but seriously – what was he offering to do – completely ruin the island economy? Food for thought. There are so many rumours I don’t even know if that offer was factual or is someone just made that up. The more I think about the chain of events the more I have to question his character.
or “if” someone just made that up.
mikki
this man had a good character until people started putting their money in his hands.
We have learned after the fact what we knew all along that you cannot give a man who is used to handling thousands, millions to handle. He is not used to it, and the sudden celebrity status drives him crazy.
I hear tha Cliff Hughes has uncovered some more news LIsten to him this evening
needy – I hope the news is good news – how much bad news can there possibly be?
Floridian, check your email.
there is no good news that can come out of this story MIkki
@needy… e-mail us hyipmyths [at] yahoo [dot] com .
wow @ Needy….how interesting that FINALLY someone has exposed the truth about David’s leaving JMMB. Duh….this was an open secret in the financial sector. But no-one wanted to talk about it. There was a big f/x trading mix up back in the day and DS was well into it. Hence the separation…suddenly, the man is the Messiah??? Ppl used to ask me why not invest in Olint….my response was clear…..mi not giving THAT man my money, based on what I knew. and believe me…I knew…not speculation….not guessing. Fact. All of the Olint ‘investors’ and DS believers continue to amaze me.
Memba a told yuh…mout mek fi talk.
needy.. re: David’s JMMB E.S.O.P
I was referring to the amount of shares not the dollar value..
ok, Third Side ,
but you must agree that when we are talking about billions, surely a man with 12mill is a
Bruck Pocket Man?
Just out of PURE curiousity…. does anyone know a good lawyer to contact for legal advice on how to proceed? (in Jamaica)
Just you know…for those people that MIGHT be interested in doing so.
miachica
It is people like you that provided the pseudo-intellectual BS that helped DS/Olint, CH/Cash Plus, MH/Higgins Warner, IL/MayDaisy, et.al. to fleece so many Jcans. You acted like the deacons in the cult while people like The Third Side stood and said…Amen sister, tell it…
See my post at https://investforlife.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/olint-broke-email-very-genuine/#comment-3987 which explains some of the fallacies in your post at https://investforlife.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/gleaner-david-lived-it-up/#comment-4195
Pay attention to the argument I had with my brother and my conclusion. Arguing with you over this issue is futile. We know the outcome. When people thrash talk over sport in America, it sometimes goes like this. SCOREBOARD!!! It is like a soccer match and we are in injury time and my side is up 10 to 0 and you are still arguing the same BS as to why your side can win. The “detractors” like myself have been saying since the start of these blogs, they were cons. Every single one of them has now turned out to be a con.
The latest thing being pushed by people like you when these schemes crash is to tell people to learn FX and trade for themselves. People in C-, HW etc were told the same nonsense…Use all the pseudo-intellectual crap you want… here is the reality.
Let us estimate there are 20,000 investors in Olint. If they all start trading FX, the reality is about 95 % will lose more money. In other words, 19,000 will lose more money. Of the remaining 1,000 most will have little to no gain and a very small percentage will have outsized gains. That is the reality!!! There is no need to argue nonsense like drop outs in Med school would be akin to gambling then.
But for many Jcans that entered these schemes, listening to people like you made them feel good and that it was working. DS was making up his monthly gains to average positive 10 % each month… MayDaisy and HW came later, so to attract people they had to pay 20 % per month. This was certainly possible because if DS could average 10 % then using the logic of people like you then why not 20 %. If these things had not collapsed there would have been others coming along with 30 %.
Use your BS logic all you want. SCOREBOARD!!! People like you were the ones Kevin loved in the # 4 cult. Notice all the stuff being revealed now about DS. Do you think that many of the people in the know were not aware of that stuff? Every time something was revealed elsewhere people like the “social butterfly” would respond with a yawn and… heard that before, nothing new. Kevin admitted he would block posts from new people with disturbing info… while the cult would chant no speculation facts only please.
Here is the reality for people. You funded DS so that he could steal your money and can now hire top lawyers to fight against you and the justice system. How many of you have money to hire the same caliber lawyers? Your only real option will be to get lawyers in groups or individually to attempt to recover any available funds… and this is likely to take many months or years.
Lets look at this thing carefully,some big wigs used CP and O to rob poor peoples money to elect a Gov. by ponzi,pull there money out ,our money is spent with Gov. officialls and the CRASH with the Drivas parachuting out just before it does.Notice no one is going there?
nocotec…
u obviously do not understand forex trading and obviously you have not taken the time to neither.
I understand your obvious bitterness regarding the Olint situation, but your tone as it relates to someone giving the other side of the coin is totally unwarranted.
Yeah Miachica ruffed u up a bit and yeah you obviously feel embarrassed but good Lord man don’t take it personal
Miachia and myself have indicated that we have been trading for approximately three years and like others out there have done pretty well. Yes we made mistakes and lost along the way a well. Miachica’s argument as well as mine centre around the disciplines that are pivotal ingredients to successfull trading the forex, which is what distinguishes it from gambling.
I won’t get into a sensless argument with you about the substantive issues that were raised as u obviously have a penchant for ranting all over the place and possibly may be suffering from “diarrhoea of the mouth”
You are obviously upset about the Olint situation and u have every right to. However, one thing I have learned is to respect other peoples opinion. I respect your opinion but never confuse your opinion with expert advise nor Gospel.
I am sure after you have calmed down and done some introspection u will realize that your comments and rhetoric directed to Miachica and to some extent myself were totally unwarranted.
End of story
nocotec….
P.S.
Direct your frustration at Dave Smith
nocotec,
LMAO
You dont know me . But U assume I knew about olint along time ago. By the time I found out about Olint in april of 2008 LMAO!!! it had already crashed. Hence thats why they got only$2000. I dont know how I INFLUENCE people to join Olint LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I trade and mek money for myself so I DONT NEED TO DO IT!! LOL!!
Because thirdside and I are forex traders we are “EVIL” and we cause people to lose money in Jamaica… obviously your NOT VERY BRIGHT.
I urge you to read “The idiots guide to foregin currency trading”.
Did you read juno post about people who go for microsoft certification….Isnt it a similar scenario to forex trading.
forex trading! In your book this would be gambling too!
Case in point, I have a friend (not imaginary he’s sitting beside me) taking Microsoft Certification courses and exams, and it’s expensive, call it $8000US for the course and then paying roughly $125US for each of the 7-8 exams.
He says that at each course section, in the beginning is nuff people in the class like 40, then close to the end is just him and like 3 other people how manged to tough it out. NUff people wasted their $8g’s and dropped out b/c the classes and exams were tough – but I know their reasoning in the beginning is that how tough could it really be? Well it was hard and only a few managed to come through.
When I took my series 7 (brokers license) the number of people that take the exam and fail (not pass) is over 70% (i passed by the way) . My conclusion is the same as yours not everyone is cut out to be Microsoft certified, doctors, lawyers, stock brokers, AND FX traders.
Bottomline I made you look like a foolish because you dont know what the HELL you talking about when it comes to TRADING!! and thats why you so upset. LOL!!
Thirdside and I are traders so what the hell that gotta do with people who lose money in Olint, MD and all other investment scheme??????????????????????
It took you 24hr to respond to my post and this is what you came up with???????????????????????
How about you just admit that your are silly You certainly did crack me up to day boy!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Third Side,
Dont respond . Anyone thta comes to the conclusion that because we trade forex WE cause people to lose money is an ignoramus!!
Now I see how that ignoramous can believe forex is gambling LMAO!!
I agree with winston niney !! DS and C+ donated millions to the JLP for the elections, and also allowed JLP minions to invest in the schemes to finance the party !! Well guess what is poor people money they thief and used ! So the changing of the course was really facilitated my the masses or the poor. That’s truly democracy at work. You want hear the minions crying because they all have already pulled or recouped their investments/money.
nocotec..& miachica…
Kiss and make up…
At the end of the day this bantering will not get us our money…remember none of us is the enemy..
“Can’t we all just get along” -Rodney King
Guys,
Again watch your language, there is no need for the type of language from educated folks.
If we cannot argue on different side of the fence without resorting to curse words, then may the God lord help us.
Then we wonder why the uneducated youth from the wrong side of cross road will shot you if he felt that you “dissed him”..
.
Fact !!!
The PONZI SCHEMES – Represented the largest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich that this country has even seen.
Its must be noted that it appears that some folks with significant portions of money in these collaspsed schemes actually had to chance to get their money before they crashed !!
The Third Side – more power to you since you are way more liberal than I ever will be and that is a great attitude. Why do you understand nocotec’s bitterness – he didn’t lose any money in O since he righteously knew it was bogus all along.
I have no idea how people who are not in it can be so caught up in being upset – leave that to people who have gotten caught with their drawers down. Yes – that would be me – but my plan B to get life back on track is already in place and I would advise others to do the same.
truly a fact Jay !!
Jay….
I agree
mikki…
mmmmm….probably is living the Olint experience vicariously….
as far as I am concerned there is no one who comes to these blogs that did not lose money with Olint.
People who did not lose money have no time to be reading and offering comments about things that do not concern or are dear to them.
mikki….
probably nocotec is living the Olint experience vicariously
needy……
r u saying that nocotec is a liar?..lol,lol
WORD OUT – THAT ONE OF THE GUYS HERE IS THE SON OF………
I suspect this is just PURE ENTERTAINMENT for them…
miachica: very, very funny!!!! That was hilarious. Some background. I have been posting on these blogs for many months. The long timers know that I did not invest in Olint or any of the other schemes and that I have been warning people about them being ponzi long before you claim to have invested. They also know what I advocate as an investing strategy for small and middle class people.
Here you are admitting that you put money in a blatant ponzi scheme at a time when it had even stopped paying out…”By the time I found out about Olint in april of 2008 LMAO!!! it had already crashed. Hence thats why they got only$2000.”
You are hilarious. Someone admits that they put money in a ponzi scheme that had already crashed… All while I had been warning for months before that… on the blogs and for years offline that it was a ponzi… And someone thinks they roughed me up intellectually and that I am the silly SCOREBOARD!!! 🙂 I know where all my $2000s are. Where in the world is your $2000?
You obviously did not read my post I referred you to. Let me repeat it, FX is gambling but like several other forms of gambling some people have access to more information than others. The same is applicable to horse racing and I suppose with your fallacious logic, horse racing for the typical bettor is not gambling either.
JAY
Olints Ponzi scheme represents the largest tranfer of wealth from the rich to the rich.
This money was transfered to casino’s, night clubs, airplane leasing companies, liquor companies.
Sledge,
The son of who sledge…jus give the intial !!
needy….
LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL
@sledge… we know.. i am have been told I am the son of Micheal Lee-Chin…
@needy.. I have no money in any of these UFOs… but I know people dear and close to me that are and that is why I continue
BTW do you have money in any of these UFOs or AISs
@Third Side/NoCotec
Lets calm down.. no need for insulting and disgusting language. Remember THE MEDIA COMES TO THIS SITE and reads the information here so we need to be decent. 😉
I will remove your posts miachia/NoCotec/Third Side you can re-post them in a more civil manner.
Lessons Learnt from the Ponzi.
1. What attracted people to these schemes.
2. What made them flourish.
3. How did they manage to hoodwink so many.
4. What about the principals which allowed them to literally have people “eating of of their hands”.
5. How did the manage to survive for the time the did.
6. Who were the ones who really made money.
7. Where did this money go, ie where was it spent.
8. Does the same conditions that allowed them to start, grown then burn , still exist.
9. Why do people still seem to have “faith” and “trust” in the principals even though it is abundantly clear that he lead the flock astray.
10. Can you really defy the law of mathematics and economics.
11. How will the those who lost heavily ever recover.
12. Is it ever possible that those who made a “killing” be forced to pay back their “illegal” gains, and if so how can it be done.
13. How do we prevent ourselves from being “fooled” once again.
14. What are the signs that your “investment” is/ has become a ponzi.
15. How do you get out before it crashes and burn.
Interesting questions that need answers.
nocotec,
Nobody cares about your stupid post..their just rants because you feel embarass and got your feelings out.
YAWN!! Moving right along !!!!!
lets continue nromal discussion and leav nocotec to his BITTERNESS lol!
Where are David Smith’s investors.?
Why haven’t they gotten together and sue him for recklessness and mismanagement of the funds? Are they going to let David Smith pull the wool over their eyes while he throws another hundred thousand dollars parties and hang out at the casino while people are having heart attacks, stress, and famine.
I need an answer?
The Truth is…
it has been a difficult time for everyone…because wether or not we were apart of Olint we have all been affected in some way or another…
Sometimes in the heat of the battle there is also a lot of ” friendly fire”…At times like these we need to make friends not enemies…
It is our ability to respect each others opinions and reason logically that seperates us from criminals…
Just Chill People
Last night I asked the following question:
“QUESTION TO ALL BLOGGERS..WHAT IS THE ONE THING THAT WE EVENTUALLY HAD AFTER HURRICANE GILBERT, IVAN AND DEAN??…
Answer
Sunshine
It does’nt mean that there won’t be more storms but there is always sunhine after every storm..
Let peace reign
BTW –
I have no investment in any on these PONZI schemes. I however had a family member and many friends who go burned in these illegal schemes.
Of course when they were making money, they called me a coward and that I have to learn to take risk in life.
I came under severe crticism for my failure to see how much money I could make from these schemes.
In the end they lost heavily as they like many allowed their interest to roll over in trying to make a “killing” in record time.
So, there are many of us here because we vow to make sure that we speak about and try our best to dissuade people from joining these schemes.
BTW – Oniel where are you. ? Hiding as usual nuh!
All this crap about investing what you can afford to lose. If that was the case how are so many persons out there who “want back mi money”.
Jay…
Jamaica’s socio-economic situation means that people will always take risks in the HOPE that there will be a big pay day…many persons who caught in the Esmie Jones pyramid…also got caught in Cash Plus,MD,HW and Olint.
Why do u think so many persons buy lotto…never mind that there is a one in a trillion chance of winning…they all feel that one day, one day will be their big day…
Contrary to popular belief..Jamaicans love to gamble and will forever do so
Guys remember to keep the posts clean… The international Press reading us you know.. Hail Cliff Hughes and the Nationwide Crew..
Jay correction……
some people did in fact risk what they could afford to loose…and have resigned themselves to the fact that they will not be getting back there money…and have moved on…
I know..I am one such individual
oops international press and Nationwide e a follow wi…pardon my grammar”…..will not be geyying back THEIR money…LOL,LOL
oops international press have mi nervous….”will not be GETTING back…LOL,LOL
needy and others:
I did not invest in these schemes. As I have said before I consider myself an information collector. The reason that I post…
Would you like to be alive 1500 years from now… imagine the advances in medical science… travel to Mars, maybe colonization of the red planet… just imagine the possibilities in 1500 years…
Well guess what… it could have been possible for us right now … to be living as it were 1500 years in the future … but for the Dark Ages. Modern Science was born on the Greek island of Ionia in the 5th or 6th century BC. As far as we know the Greek scientist Thales was the first to attribute things in the world to natural phenomena instead of the moods and whims of the gods. Science flourished on the island. Democritus figured matter was made of atoms… 300 BC or so the librarian at the library of Alexandria, Aristophanes was reputed to have figured out the world was round and its circumference to within a few %…. I could go on… In 1492 when Columbus sailed west men still believed he would fall off the edge of a flat world… the info had been lost and suppressed.
All this knowledge and enlightenment was lost to the dark ages for about 1500 years when science stopped… Only the ruling and priest class were allowed to read and study books… people were burned at the stake for heresy for daring to challenge religion… it was about 1500 years lost before men again dared to challenge the status quo… the age of enlightenment was upon us a gain…
This suppression of people of knowledge and or the people who know better acquiescing and keeping silent is responsible for much of the problems in JA. Look at the newspapers… The Gleaner and its reporting on the UFO’s… Mark Wignall and his support for Olint… that lawyer who lost money in C-, writing in support in the Herald… etc… Ministers, MP’s lawyers, doctors, engineers, professionals and the many others who should know better… participating in the schemes…
Look at the problems that plague or society and those who should know better stay silent and or join the idiots. I do not believe in that philosophy. That is why I am on these blogs… if you knew me in real life you would find me the same way… I always speak out against idiocy taking hold… even when I am the lone voice… I do not believe men of intelligence should stand by while the idiots push their gospel. It is why I sometimes appear to speak out so forcefully against idiocy. This is how the dark ages took hold. It is why these cons and so many other bad things have taken hold in JA. Men and women that know better must speak out and not allow our voices to be suppressed.
As in the dark ages men of reason were banned by the idiots like Kevin… I am thankful that investforlife took the time to start this blog… where the voice reason can speak without being suppressed and yes… sometimes dynamic and very vociferous disagreements… this is the nature humans and it is this kind of dynamism that led to the birth of science on Ionia, 2500 years ago.
Is it true that at the Jazz Festival David had a yatch parked in Mobay?
If only the assets in TCI have been frozen, why can’t OLint try and pay some of its investors? They have won the court battle with NCB to have the accounts remain open, they should use this opportunity before the worse case scenario.
One question I have….The few that actually got “over paid”. IF investigations find olint was operating a pyriamid scheme..will they go after those individuals that received excessive returns?
john doe: which part of my post had insulting or disgusting language? The folks responding did. This as you have seen is the typical response of people pushing the ponzi scheme agenda when they are challenged. When you challenge their illogical arguments many respond like that and then accuse the challenger.
This is one reason why the ponzi schemes took such hold. Men/Women who knew better did not challenge them because they were afraid of the usual nasty responses and villifications that we the detractors have had thrown at us.
Have you ever thought how is it possible that in all the many hundreds that posted on these blogs there were only about 6 of us so called ‘detractors” that dared to stand up and oppose the idiocy? Or is idiocy a bad word… it is certainly a correct description. Imagine, only about 6 in all the hundreds. Notice how we are now gradually getting more who feel free to join our ranks now that it has been shown the schemes were in fact ponzis… most were afraid to speak up because they were afraid of the ridicule.
Anyway not quarreling with you but I just believe the purveyors of idiocy to our people must be forcefully challenged 🙂
well nocotec you really have time to waste.
Let me teach you something,
greed is something that comes natural to makind.
everyone always strives to make as much from a little.
I would not be surprised if detractors like MLC and other had a smalls on Olint (just incase)
I have a friend who from four years ago, he was saying that it did not work.
one day I sat him down and showed him that the time that he was arguing that it did not work, if he had invested U$100k and collected his interest for every month, he would have made a profit of over U$500k. If he had rolled if over and compounded it for 3 years he would have made a few million, and could have gottten out long b4 the crash.
Now that OLINT has crashed he is now beating his chest and saying that
” I told you so, the whole a unnu a ediatt”
Now in retrospect, who is the idiot?
I who invested U$20k in Olint in November, collected 4 months interest and lost the rest or my friend who could have been in at the start, made millions and gotten out of it, or lose only a small amount?
The only real option available for investors is litigation. It is extremely unlikely that with the recent news that of all the thousands of investors that no one will file a lawsuit. Just one lawsuit is likely to derail any other plans. Organizing in groups is likely to lower the legal fees. Legal and receivership fees are going to be huge as this will involve legal action possibly in several jurisdictions such as TCI, JA, USA and who knows were else DS stashed money.
This is the reality of investing without … Think and Check. After Unraveling ponzi schemes, there is usually little or no money left… see C+ for a recent example… The lawyers and accounting firms usually take most of what is left. As I have said before, most of the money has already gone back to investors… it was just redistributed… most of the rest was blown by DS.
As the days and events unfold, we have more information on the man-DS everybody trusted. The man-DS people referred to as a christian!!!!!!!!!!!.
1. He throws big parties!!!!!!!!!!
2. Flies in a private jet.!!!!!!!!!!!
3. Creates bomb threats in order to close the Kingston office.!!!!!!!!!
4. Create fictitious wire transfers.!!!!!!!!!!!
5. Use the scriptures to fool the flock.!!!!!!!!
6. Visits the casino, instead of trading FX as he claims.
7. Sponsorship of Jazz festival.!!!!!!!!!
8. Million dollars foundation to help the poor!!!!!!!!!!
9. Is lewfam their saviour!!!!!!!!!!!!
10. Transparency, Transparency, transparency, Please!!!
I would love to have comments. anybody Please!!!
needy: greed and idiocy are not the same thing. Investing in the stock market for the long term is a form of greed but not idiocy. The statistics show that most people doing so will end up with gains. The statistics show that all but a few that invest in ponzi schemes will be losers. Investing in a ponzi scheme is idiocy or as JD says, not wise 🙂
miachica: In the USA and other jurisdictions they have gone after people who were overpaid. It is to be seen what the court will decide in the C- case and what will happen as Olint and the others unfold.
Reallydepressed: You are assuming that there is any significant money left to pay investors. In my opinion if there was any significant money he would have paid this out already. You may be familiar with the email that Cliff read… It should be clear that he wrote the email after he finished imbibing… Drinking has a way of making some people wanting to cleanse their soul… He admitted Olint was broke so where do you think he has any money to pay back folks?
UNU HEAR WEH A GWAUN…JUS BUS PON NATIONWIDE…”OLINT IS THE SUBJECT OF AN FBI INVESTIGATION”..EVERYTHING HAS BEEN FROZEN
ReallyDepressed,
it’s just breaking that the FBI froze all of DS assets, so unless he has some secret offshore Swiss account everything done. Funny though this letter was sent July 11, the same day he was crossing his fingers that money was supposed to be in jamaica.
So investors should just count their losses and move on
investforlife/admins…I think everyone should be directed to the new thread re: Money laundering……
We can move to the latest breaking news
I am a shareholder of NCB. In 2004 I bought AIC mutual funds at $4.60 and in Feb2008 at the encouragement of my WA I again bought at $7+. And today July 2008 where is it now??? Its $4 AIC has been losing money in Canada, and NCB telling us lies that they are making so much money. The principal owner busy buying up business and properties all over Jamaica and AIC losing money. They should be concentrating on AIC
Tell me something why is it that MLC spending so much time in TCI and busy socializing and making promises to the TCI govt. Can his son please answer
Based on the news report all assets have been frozen. There might not be any hope at all of receiving the funds. Investors, it is a hard blow, but DS knew what he was doing and we were the scapegoats.
I can tell you its a hard blow for me.
You guys are crazy. Freezing assets protects you and is your only hope of recovering anything at all!
Bob,
I know it sounds kind of crazy but i tend to agree with you. Since these assets have been frozen, now maybe a higher power than us lowly jamaican (namely big big FBI) can force david smith to shut down and dispurse operation. Nothing like compliance and due dilligence when you have possible jail time hanging over your head. And i’m not talking about ponzi crime, talking about money laundering, and the US don’t play.
Here is a case of a Jamaican living in Florida who ripped off numerous family members, friends and church members in a similar scheme. This guy was a Finance and IT whiz, who built a sophisticated Ponzi / Pyramid scheme using all his learned skills. He had an elaborate website that allowed members to track earnings. He was paying as much as 15% per month.
As you will notice from the U.S. Department of Justice filing, they could not get him on running a Ponzi scheme, but on money laundering and mail fraud. Since people volunteered to give him their money, they had no recourse in getting their funds back based on the scheme.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/cac/pressroom/pr2005/150.html
This guy was “small time” compared to David Smith.
I agree we must not view the Justice Department’s freezing of the assets negatively.
What wehave heard so far deals only with the account at FXCM some US$3.6M ,
Question: We need to know the amount being held at Oanda if any exists.
Secondly we need to consult an experienced US attorney in Patriot Act and Proceeds of Crime Litigation
If at all possible that the clean money can be separated from the alleged tainted funds then it may be possible for some account holders to get back some funds after either negotiation with the Justice Department or by way of a court appointed receiver to take over the assets of Olint with a view to winding up same.
OR and don’t hold your breath on this one: Government to Government cooperation , i.e. between the US and GOJ and The (investigated Missick led) TCI government.
The quid pro for govt intervention with the GOJ is to deduct at source 25% w/tax – a small price to pay to even obtaining something from what is seemingly now nothing.
Listen, you all to a chance yes? You read the fine print yes? You knew it was risky from the start yes?
You may have lost on the final pass. Yes? There is no reason to be sorry now. If David wanted to live it up he has all right to, after all you gave him the money to did you not?
Look at it this way.
Example: If a young Jamaican, educated came to you and said “I have a wonderful business project, one that is so great it cannot be passed up. I have a presentation would you like to see it?”. You said yes.
He showed it to you, all the market research and you even realize it is very good. You see massive potential and opportunity. The investment is as little as US$5,000 (what you normally spend on a Miami or New York weekend trip) or what you would spend to impress some young lass you want.
But instead of saying investing in the youth and his business plan, your first attempt is to steal the idea, but that did not work. So you said :I do not have the cash”, “that sounds too risky”. Blah, Blah, Blah.
But here comes Olint, Cash Plus, and a half dozen others. You hear sweet things about them. So why not. Boom, you invest, get great returns. Now things are a bit tight, do not complain.
Fact is, there is nothing wrong in investing or not investing in any club or business you choose to. So live with your choice.
kingstonchronicle
Two problems with your analysis:
1. DS/Olint was a con/fraud.
2. DS was either providing a financial service to you illegally or providing an investment opportunity for you illegally.
I follow and agree with most of what you are saying, but these two facts change the picture considerably in favour of the investor.
The problem for many investors (but not all) is going to be their vociferous objection to point 2 which is very clearly on the record (for example, the Olint and/or Lewfam investors who told the judge in the FSC case that they did not want to be protected by the law. READ THE JUDGEMENT! Other public examples don’t need to be repeated – it is well known).
By the way, the fine print did not say “The operators of this scheme are obliged by law to apply to … to be licensed/registered/etc. The operators do not intend to make any such application. This failure is designed to protect the operators from the increased liability to investors and higher standards of operating that are required by law. Be advised that this omission for a financial enterprise such as this is usually indicative of a high probability of fraud on the investors. The operators make no guarantee that your funds will not be used for illegal activities or be commingled with the funds of others which may be illegal. You are warned that this means that your funds may be confiscated by the government without warning at any time…”
I could go on, but I don’t have the time or patience to write it out in full. I hope you get the drift. When someone offering financial benefits in return for your money says he or she does not need to be regulated (this was Olint’s position before it moved to TCI and got licensed somehow), that person is usually trying to hide his true background.
Have U Guys Never Seen D. Smith at monte carlo or acropolis…or platinum? doah ramp fi drop dem benjamines..
TopShotta – you are forgetting the Casinos in TCI.
My bwoy DS had a GOOD TIME with our money. As I have seen SO many times before – the people who broadcast their Christianity are usually the biggest sinners.
It’s not the first time, someone has used religion to mash us for their own benefit. As CH say last night, one of the big stories in this matter is the role of certain churches in the promotion of this scam.
Nuff preacher goin’ to HELL !!!
D. Smith betta kno seh there is no where in the world he could go where he wouldn’t be found
Sledge
I agree. AIC has performed less than spectacular….but guess what no one is interested in why MLC has been coincidentally in TCI over the last 2 weeks….this is amazing.
CH has not pursued ANY discussion of a possible conspiracy against OLINT….yet still the media is jumping on rumours that David tried to commit suicide…come on.
David is ultimately responsible and must be held accountable….but no one seems remotely interested in whether our beloved local banks have had a hand in David’s demise.
I will perhaps be alone on this…so what…thats my opinion.