Email: Fake or Genuine? (Your Views)

Today is Nationwide is silent on the E-MAIL purportedly written by David Smith. The silence of Cliff Hughes on the e-mail has left many questions. Many tuned in to Nationwide locally and internationally to hear the continuation of the story and have been left disappointed.

This E-MAIL is critical to solving the puzzle in many person’s mind, as its legitmacy will put to rest many question in the minds of supporters and detractors. The second e-mail read, refers to a video that is of interest to many persons and as persons want to know what is on that video. It is rumoured that that video should have be a confession of sorts but it was shelved.

One thing should be kept in mind, David Smith is the one that has not paid most of his members in the last 7 months.

What do you think? Did Cliff get it wrong or was David Smith lying? Was the e-mail real or was it bogus?


233 Responses

  1. Cliff should have confirmed the authenticity of the email prior to broadcast. He should stated that the email was authenticated by so and so. Otherwise he should have said “allegedly wriiten by david smith” which he did not do. Hence cliff has downgraded his journalism to tabloid stuff in my opinion. The email is bogus until proven otherwise by an accredited IT Expert.

  2. It could be true, or it could be fake.

    One thing for sure is that Cliff opened himself up to a big lawsuit for claiming it really came from David, without really being able to prove that.

    Faking the origin of an email is easy. That’s why there is so much SPAM today. The Internet email protocols are easily exploitable. So Cliff would have a tough time proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the emails were legitimate.

    Even if it could be proven that it came from the actual email account of David Smith, it’s possible that someone could have gotten his password and logged into his account and sent the email. It happens. Trojan’s, keyloggers and malware are everywhere. That’s what they do … grab your passwords for somebody else to use.

    At the end of the day, it could still be true and from David, but Cliff really shouldn’t have put it out there without concrete proof. Big mistake.

  3. Truth is, is unno did raise the temperature over this thing…I listened to Cliff today myself, but neva hear a word. I don’t have a view as to whether there is any truth to the email, but what is certainly true is that Olint nah pay nobody….why not? Nobody is apparently blocking them…so it seems MAYBE, it aint got no $$$!!! Duh.

  4. i agree fully realist

  5. rsi

    “Cliff should have confirmed the authenticity of the email prior to broadcast. He should stated that the email was authenticated by so and so.”

    The man se dat di email come from the belly of Olint and he stand by it 100%. What more authentication you want? The source name?

  6. Regardless of whether the email is true or not….

    The facts still remain the same… I think people (myself included) would be best served assuming the email is REAL until proven otherwise.

    all this worrying about whether or not NCB/BOJ held/sent BACK money is pointless… If the money was sent, and was then refused, to me this seems like something that should be very easy to prove… The company who SENT the money,Oanda, Wachova, or some other bank, will have provided David with some HARD proof (receipt, statement, whatever) that the money was sent. Having this proof should make winning a legal battle pretty easy. To me the fact that there has been to date NO legal action against ANYBODY…anybody except Olint, makes me wonder if all these conspiracy theories arent just the products of wild imaginations and desperate attempts to hold on to hope.

    If NCB held or refused the money.. Mr. Smith wil/should sue them…
    IF BOJ held or refused the money..Mr. Smith will/should sue them
    If OANDA confirmed that they sent the money but didn’t, or with NO reason held the money… Mr. Smith will/should sue them…
    If a TCI Bank confirmed they sent the money but didn’t, or with NO reason held the money…. Mr. Smith will/should sue them.

    None of those things have happened, or have been mentioned to date. And that makes me wonder if there really WAS any 200+mln to be sent in the 1st place…

    The fact that Mr. Smith has hired such a ‘prestigious’ lawyer says NOTHING to me about his innocence. All it says is that he has enough money to hire the best of the best to possibly save his guilty ass… (assuming he is guilty). Not to make a comparison of character, but Drug Lords usually hire the best lawyers money can buy…

    Again… In the coming days, weeks and months, there is NOTHING common people can do but wait, gather their documents, and seek possible legal advice… that’s it.

    Rest assured Mr. Smith is right now concerned with keeping his family safe, and keeping his and his brother’s ass OUT of jail…

  7. “At the end of the day, it could still be true and from David, but Cliff really shouldn’t have put it out there without concrete proof. Big mistake.”

    Lawd Gad
    How you know the man hasn’t got proof? Because he hasn’t said so? Why do you expect a higher burden of proof from Cliff than you do from DS?

    DS hasn’t said that he has the money but many people are ready to believe he has it.

    Realist you right about lawsuit.

    the bal is now in DSaviour court.

  8. Expectancy dashed to dirt.2.

    What has become of Nation Wide’s brilliant discovery hasn’t he gotten any more leaks from DS’s in box?

    I notice that his new this afternoon was quiet subdued and crispmyself , all he was bent on doing today was just to clear the local Boss/bank name.

    But I suppose he has achieved his goals of the corruption stint and mind control of the people. That is using the media to CRUSH another investment scheme.
    What is the truth here?

    Who is pumping CH with corruption Gel to continue Poverty or eradicate poverty?


  10. U cant really be surprised by some people’s refusal to accept what seems pretty clear. It forces them to accept the consequences of that truth. People cling to hope, and understandably so. May hope help them. Cause Super Dave won’t…. As a matter of interest, when did things really take a turn for the worse in this Olint melodrama? It must have been gradual, but it seems all so sudden! Olint people used to be smug, now dey just darn worried.

  11. Anybody can type a document and claim it as authentic.
    In this day and age, you can’t even trust video “evidence”. It can be edited.

    So how can a good journalist get an “email” and take it as gospel, then when a guy denies it is from him, the journalist’s question is “Is your email blah blah blah… “? That just shows that Cliff doesn’t understand this email thing. Anybody can claim the sender address is

    It is not so easy to authenticate the source of an email. To do so would require certain things to be in place, and even if they were in place, getting around that could be as simple as a man picking up your blackberry while you’re out of the room, and sending off a email -as you!

  12. Bwoy…cliff silent bad…lol……He said he had more tommorw(today) and the whole of jamaica tune in to hear nothing….The way he was goin on yesterday i would have sworn is mr smith wife herself was the source….he was so confident. Even after DS denied writing it he still proceded to read it over and over and report it as breaking news without reading “allegedly or Supposedly” but instead read “He said….ect”

    Next is gleaner. coming now to say no office in miami….is mistake them make…

    Bwoy….doa look like we can take anything as news unless is official word from Olint DS cause if the media failing us….and some(CVM) turning to these blogs…..Is better we stick to these blogs for everybody sources cause they are just as credible as nationwide and the media houses (all non credible…lol)

  13. Realist

    The DSaviour have a big check to get from Cliff. This should put Nationwide out of business and help pay back investors.

    We do not know the source of the email or what else the man has so you cant say that he has or hasn’t check the email.

  14. Summary of comments.

    1. Cliff rush to read a letter/email and he has no proof that it came from DS. He needs to prove that the letter came from DS, ok lets say they are right( I am not saying they are).

    2. Where is the proof that $2OOM was sent?

    3. Where is the proof that BOJ is holding the funds?

    4. Where is the proof that NCB is holding or has sent back the funds.

    5. Where is the proof that Olint was under DD by anyone including his brokers.

    6. Where is the proof that Olint was trading forex.

    7. Where is the proof that the gains posted were real.

    Yet most “Olinters” believed all or most of the above, but not that a email saying Olint was bankrupt was written by DS.

    Amazing isn’t it.

  15. We will see

  16. It is irresponsible journalism to do what cliff did. He can still keep his source secret and still authenticate the email. They r not mutually exclusive robin irie

  17. RSI

    Let DS sue him then. Cliff put his money where his mouth is.

    The ball is in DS court

  18. Hey, all I know is that coming out and claiming that the man wrote a self-destructive email to his wife who lives with him, just looks like a very risky thing to do on the part of the journalist – regardless of whether the investment scheme is legitimate or not, or whatever the status is.

  19. Jay,

    i COULD NOT have said it better myself…. people NOT believing what they are seeing and experiencing.. but ARE believing things they know makes no logical sense

  20. Robin Irie:

    You are missing the point. These Olinters are hoping, hoping, hoping and praying that the email is bogus. That way they can cling to the hope that it is not over. Which you and I know from back in January that Olint had already crashed!

  21. Jay,

    An on top of it…. the number of people who are being blamed…. the conspiracy grows each day…

    Michael Lee Chin
    Bank Of Jamaica
    Cliffy H
    Turks Govt

    Am I forgetting anybody?? I hope not….

    p.s. on a side not.. are you saving all these conversations/logs?…. it sure would be interesting to look back on, whatever the outcome, one year from now

  22. the Cynic.

    You left off:


  23. DaveSin

    Yu right braai but yu know mi like trace sometime.

  24. … feel sey is real (munch, munch, munch) … Verbal / KS / DS lyin’ thru dem teet’ from the 1st scene of dis sequel …

  25. Mi gaan a mi bed now

  26. Anybody who is technically minded knows that emails can be “cooked”. worst when its printed on paper and handed to you. The only way to verify a email is ask the person who sent it, find the original machine it was written on or tracing it across the internet to said machine. (not to mention p/p keys)

    If its real – it real. If its not real, its the most ingenious jamaican/nigerian scan spam email ever devised. Its the 9/11 of spam terrorism.

  27. What is true is here, is that we DON”T know the truth for all that we are hearing and being fed here.

    To whom do we turn if we cannot trust the media or Olint or the local banks report?

    1.Isn’t DS an outstanding Trader?

    2.Was DS a good Forex Trader when he was
    an employee of JMMB?

    3. OR If the answer to the above is yes; why then wouldn’t DS trade forex investors’ money and offer them a good return?

    4.Or better yet, if the answer to 1 & 2 above is yes; how could DS become so reckless and careless when trading forex for a wider cross section of individuals?

    5.Are we saying that DS has lost his Trading skills or wisdom?

    6.The truth must be revealed abd soon too.

  28. u people are so bad minded.
    i benefited tremendously from DS and his brainchild OLINT. not until, fsc, ncb leechin, super+ et al entered the pic did any probs arise.
    i used to earn $750k jamaican dollars at a local fin inst. with a wife earning less than half of my earnings, and 2 toddlers, one of whom was about to enter prep school in kgn, i thought that ruination was my destiny! but alas, along came the saving grace, many prayers answered. OLINT, all be it via Lewfam.
    my story, well its long but a quick summary follows.
    started with a principal of us$5k dec ‘05
    i got 3 mths interest b4 fsc raid in march 06. panic led me to retrieve my money in may of 06. things settled and the dream, short lived @ the time seemed over. then i was contacted with instructions, if interested, on how to restart my account.
    so, in aug 06 i re”invested” $10 k US. i made several deposits over the next few months. as my confidence grew, i closed my omni, scotia mint, and most of my other small eggs scattered all over the place. by summer of 07 i had well in excess of 75k us!! in my account. i then started to cream my interest payments.

    i mved out of my rented apt in hwt, up into a more upt residence(rented). i’ve now bought my self a car, a v. nice one too. i now take my wife to work and kids to school in ac comfort.
    why would leechin who flies in a helicopter to go nxt door want to stop me from a ttaining a life of comfort?
    it is beyond me why u people rejoice in my/our despair.
    i dont know ds personally, but from what i hear hes and upstanding member of the christian community who would not set out to deliberately set out to defraud us. not like c+.
    but the prssures from all the bad minders created panic and he has clearly reacted bu tking more risks to ensure that poor folk like myself could continue to climb the socioecon ladder in ja where the odds are heaviely stacked against persons like myself who were not born with silverspoons.
    i say let us wait. tvj just said that ds has retained the services of top lawyers, reputable folk who would not rush to the defense of a nasty con man hustler as some would make ds to be.
    lets wait and see, in the mean time quit being so nasty to us invetors, we know how we’ve benefitted and we know that it can continue as long as it gets a chance. leechin, super+,fsc, backoff!

  29. well said jon…..people enjoy all the benefits but as soon as some challenges arise everyone jump to crucify DS.

  30. Peace Be still
    Question 1 Answer NO

    DS was no good trader he is however a good Con Artist. Nothing stopping him from paying. So where is the money?

  31. Jay/Jason/Nocotec, all team members can retire now, mission accomplished.

  32. Is anyone aware that Citibank is now offering a currency trading product? Are u aware as well that MLC has invested in a currency trading comapny in Canada? They must have recognized the potential benefits…agree?… u think that maybe DS has had something to do with that……….

  33. MC banks have been doing Forex for a long time. What is new?

    David Smith was just not a good trader he is a good thief

  34. I just watched TvJ, CVM TV, lessoned to Nationwide radio. There has been no mention of the email or the video.

    After all the excitement was over, people wanted FACTS and are still waiting for it from the Jamaican media.

    Maybe this is why they all remained silent on Olint today.

    David Smith by his actions have made himself look guilty. I too believe he is guilty.

    That dosent mean the media can report stuff with verifying information.

    Investors already last faith in Olint.
    and now
    The media!

  35. Yes, but they have not been offering products directly to the market….can you tell which commercial bank has offered a currency trading product to the market before????


    You should take some time to investigate DS trading abilities before tearing him to pieces!

  36. September coming….school time coming….time running short on everybody.

    Time just running short…Pressha…Pressha…Preesha

  37. Time a run short all fi di politician dem…granny dem…pickney dem….members dem…..smity dem…..

    What a timing….what a timing

    the CH case not providing a good example…put off….put off…put off…….den what?…….Let off?………..

    den what? F offf???????

    Jack mandora….mi nuh choose none

  38. Mk

    DS trading ability is reflected in the fact that he is bankrupt. He was no good at JMMB and he operated a ponzi on his own. The man is a failure as a trader, But a huge success as a ConMan

  39. NCB said they did not reject 200mil , my info. from reliable source said 125 mil came to the ac.

  40. It amazes me how everybody is just sitting here thinking that Smith has all this money in his possession that he wont give up. Think about it; international electronic movement of money is a very tricky business – especially6 when you dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Check it:

    I have $100 hundred trading and every month I am earning $50 on it out of this $50 I pay out $25 then all of a sudden one month people come to me demanding the entire $50 for the month and $80 out of the $100 – At this point I have to stop trading as trading capital is now short

    Now I have to link Oanda and tell them that instead of the $25 I usually get, I need $130 – their agreement probably has special waiting periods on stuff like this

    Remember OLINT is an individual in their eyes, as it is not registered as a financial institution

    After the waiting period, Oanda now has to wire this money to OLINT and it prob goes like this

    Oanda—>Clearing HOuse in Canada—->JP Morgan NY —-> Wachovia—->JP Morgan—->OLINTs BAnk in Turks—->OLINTS account.

    OLINT now has to send back to wachovia—>jp morgan—->NCB or whoever in Jamaica act as the clearing bank—->credit to OLINT account—–> where they start to pay people

    All this shuffling of HUGE AMOUNTS of money (like 50 x’s the regular) is raising all kinds of Alarms and all it takes is for one over cautious bank rep to put the entire thing into a spin

    And once it is in a spin its hard to get out and settle back down

    this is just a series of unfortunate events initiated by a lack of patience on all these “new” OLINT investors

  41. You know what I dont understand with you people you are all wasting time questioning the validity of the email. Isnt it clear to u all DAVID IS BROKE. Dont you all realise that for months you have not received any interest. Also hop of Cliff’s back cause we are the same ones who want him and Nationwide to track the story for us. If David knew he did not write the email why him never stay and defend his position. Also to the persons who are talking about Cliff needs to tell his sources you are all MAD. How the man must give his sources, how u think nationwide get info. We the public call them and in confidence we tell them things expecting that they will not let the public know that we tell them.

    THis other rubbish about David saying that he did not write the email SO WHAT why is it that David is so honest. This is the same man who says that people would get their money from lastweek, this was the same man who told us couple months ago that all is well with olint. So why should we beleive him

    when Audley got up in Parliament and said that Peter Bunting through his company got “sweet heart deal” Peter got up and deny it. Did u see Audley tell who his source was? Peter was the same man who had to come back and withdraw his statements and admit that they did infact got a deal from government. If David is so confident that him never write it then fine there is a place to deal with it. Its called COURT HOUSE.

    Listen you all hop off Cliff Hughes back some of you are just bitter that uno money gone and you all cant get it back. Why you all never listen to FSC when them tell uno fi THINK BEFORE YOU INVEST dont blame Cliff, blame urself. Mi big up CLIFF everytime for bringing the info to the fore. If it wasnt for Cliff and Nationwide we would not know that Olint’s asset were frozen in Turks and Caicos. You know in this country we are one back of hypocrites

  42. You people are crazy. THE DS email is apparently fake, it’s obvious it is. Why would he email his wife. The US GOV has helt up the wire that was being sent to Jamaica. Homeland Security. One they find it’s not drug or terrorists money they’ll release it. Lewfam even confirmed that the US gov was involved. As far as TCI events, pretty much he’s going to have to prove the same type of thing there that it’s not laudered money. You can’t run a ponzi for 5 years so be for real people. I’m not the biggest fan of DS’s and there is tons i wish he would have done different but at this point i pray he gets through this so i can get all my money out.

  43. @Jermaine I agree with you Cliff is not the problem and I believe that e-mail is genuine.

    @pipunit “You can’t run a ponzi for 5 years so be for real people.” Welcome to school….

    Lession 1:

    Lession 2:

    When you are done your reading we can discuss…

  44. On this email thing, I have one thing to say:

    Dan Rather lost his job a few years during the 2004 elections back when he reported that he received an official document that proved that George Bush went Awol and was a no-show for reserve guard duty. The document was not authenticated and turned out to be manufactured. Dan Rather was criticized for not doing his job to authenticate the document before presenting such damaging evidence against Bush as new reporting.
    Dan Rather eventually was ask to resigned.

    Now I am not saying that the above is exactly like the Cliff Hughs situation but it is sure close enough.

  45. I know David Smith is keeping abreast by reading this blog: well hear dis:
    If Jamaicans dont get them money their is no rock you can hide under.
    Every time you pickney dem out yuh site yuh going to wonder if we tek dem
    Everything you love and cherish will disappear …i promise you
    False dishonest christian you are i hope god strike you down
    Yuh brother wayne who like pay out him fren dem …we know him deh a new york…the man dem have him lock already..
    money still a draw out a NCB acccount..wi dun know every thing a gwaan..
    Yuh cant leave turks till yuh pay every last jamaican wi a mek sure a dat

  46. I am not defending DS but cliff could have came with an IP address or somin kinda info that the email is legit.

    Ever heard of Email Spoofing…thats what spammers use to send out information. It dosent take a genius to do it either.

    E-mail spoofing is a term used to describe fraudulent e-mail activity in which the sender address and other parts of the e-mail header are altered to appear as though the e-mail originated from a different source. E-mail spoofing is a technique commonly used for spam e-mail and phishing to hide the origin of an e-mail message.

    What crack me up is poor little cliff was soo sure DS made that email.

    He didnt even bother to use terms like “alleged” or “suposedly”.

    Bottom line is he wrong for that one.

    The nail in the COFFIN will come for DS
    But they have to do better than that.

  47. Hol holding on to hope……holding on to hope…….all unno doing is holding on to hope.

    who will it be?

  48. Janice is Olint customers and by extention Jamaicans like you I am not sorry for.

    What is there to benefit if they lock down Nationwide

    1) Quiet a number of persons will be out of a job (maybe bout 150)

    2) We will once again have to listen to pop dung RJR who brings the news all a Day late.

    3) We will have nobody on air to ask us what we really want to ask these Government ministers

    4) No one will go and dig the info and bring it to us

    Focus on David, if Nationwide never bring the info we would be the same ones to call them and beg them to find out whats happening with Olint and David.
    You think CLiff is a idiot, the man must know say anybody can mek up an email so the man must check and all double check his sources.

    Janice u amaze me I cant beleive u wasting your time to question the email. Have you received your interest? Go ask David about that

  49. Another thing Jhance if DS knew that he was not the author of that email why did he call Cliff deny it and run. Why didnt David call his lawyers and instruct them to pursue the matter. Dont call and speak jus instruct your lawyers to sue. Normally if people plans to sue they prefer not to sue. The other day when Audley came in Parliament and say DB&G got “sweat heart deals” why we never question Audley’s source. When Cliff buss the story that David’s assets are frozen in Turks why we never question Cliff’s source. You know what is so funny it was Nationwide who first buss that story and then the following day we notice that all the media houses follow suit.

    I think some of you people are hypocrites when Nationwide was after Cash Plus alot of you people shut ur mouths why because you all did not have any money there. Cash plus is more for the point, now because Olint is for the BIG WIGS and you realise that the money gone you all trying to defend David. You all should be ashame of yourself, you people are like a drowing man trying to grab on to a straw in order to save ur life.

    I dont wish bad for people but you olint investors need to face reality. Dont blame the messenger Cliff is only revealing the truth. Now because the man no bring nothing today you all deh pan him case How you know that the man never get more things but as a responsible Journalist he is checking to ensure that the info correct.

    Get real people this is about Olint and David, not Cliff and Nationwide.

    So what if CLiff got it wrong, so what if David sue nationwide he will not make enough money to pay back his investors.

  50. Jermaine, you cannot let journalists off the hook just because they tell us what we want to hear, on either side.

    If Cliff had reported that he had in possession an email from Leechin to his wife explaining the “plan to bring down Olint”, and then MLC called in and denied writing that email, then you and many others would be on the other side of this argument calling Cliff to higher standards of journalistic responsibility.

    As the old proverb goes “what see depends on where you stand”

  51. Jermaine and Janice

    Did you all use to date


  52. Jermaine,

    You are so sure that DS wrote that email, or is it that you want so bad to believe it.

  53. Dont be silly Truth the man must have checked the information before he told us about it. After so many years in the business dont you think that Cliff is sensible? So Turth when cliff got that email say Monday and check it and realise that it is a fact what should he have done with it.

    Keep it to himself?

    Your crazy, Am not letting Cliff off the hook but the man MUST have checked his sources before giving us the info. This is not the first or second time Cliff bring things to us but you know why we questioning the man credibility its because the story affects some of us. Some of us have money at OLINT and we no want to face the facts. When Cliff give us info on what is happening with Politicians we all beleive and NO ONE question him or call for him to be more reponsible.

  54. the mail genuine….

    ….Even though the tongue is little, it boast great things. Its like a small spark that set a great forest on fire. Although the tongue is small, there is nothing small about the damage it can do. Words carry with them, the power of healing or a destructive capacity far greater that the poison of any snake.

    It is essential that we use our words with great wisdom and care. Consider carefully the words you choose.

    A careless word may kindle strife
    A cruel word may wreck a life
    A timely word may lessen strife
    A loving word may heal and bless

    It is better to bite your tongue, than to let it bite someone else.

  56. kensimmo I am going off what CLiff says, am not saying that Cliff is right however I have been listening to him for years and he has always been DEAD on.

    But the other part is so what if David never write it the fact of the matter is the man need to pay back his investors

  57. JohnDoe I agree yah, it seems like you know for a fact John. While i dont know for a fact I think it is genuine

  58. Why would DS write his wife an email and both of them on the run together.

    Why would DS send out an email admitting failure

    Cliff made a huge mistake

  59. Jermaine, how can you say “you dont know for a fact”, then call others crazy for saying that “they dont know for a fact.”

    So your reasoning goes like this:

    “The email is genuine because the email must be true because cliff must have check his sources, but I really dont know or cant say for sure if he checked his sources for a fact.” But yet you are sure about your conclusion when you are unsure of the facts?

    Are you saying Cliff could not have made a mistake?

    You reason like 6 – year old, c’mon now!

  60. So one side worship DS as infallible, the other worship Cliff as infallible.

    The truth both DS and Cliff are humans, and are subject to human frailties.

    Neva get that twisted! Eva!

    Now granted, Cliff has way more credibility than DS at any point in time, and thats why I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by giving him time to come out and announce for a fact that he verified the email as not being manufactured or spoofed etc.

    Until then I can legitimately call for him to back up his reporting, just like how world-respected anchor Dan Rather was called to back up his reporting. The lesson of Dan Rather is…never so treat journalists as if they can never make a mistake.

  61. well Truth if we should behave like this then we would question alot of things that we hear from our Journalists. I will ask this question again when Audley got info that DB&G got sweet heart deals and the man said that he is sticking by his comment EVEN THOU Peter say him never get it we had to trust Audley’s statements. Audley never reveal his sources. Turth you cant expect the Journalist to expose his sources and sadly thats the only way he is able to proof this one. As I ave said we wasting time focusing on CLiff, we need to focus on DS

  62. Jermaine, your comparison to Audley fails because AUDLEY IS A POLITICIAN and thus we expect him to play political games with facts and try to score points against the opposition. Everybody knows to take what politicians with a grain of salt.

    But Cliff is a first-rate emmy-award winning journalist and thus…we expect him to be on top of his game and report facts not spin, or lies or unsubstantiated info. Everybody takes his word as gospel as evidenced by what you are doing now. As such, he carries a heavy duty responsibility and an extra burden to report substantiated facts. If you cant substantiate a fact then he should at least qualify by saying allegedly.

    Do you get the difference?

  63. Turth you fail to see what I am saying, with the email the only way that the man can substantiate the facts is if he give the source. A Journalist cannot give his sources. I used the Audley thing for that very reason persons did not beleive Audley but in the end Audley was in fact correct. The man stood by his source and it so happens that Bunting came and admit. The same for cliff, he is standing by his source its now for DS to come and prove otherwise. Truth there mere fact that CLiff did not say alleged shows that the man is SURE. Normally if he is not sure he wld say alleged. Let David bring him to court then Cliff will be forced to reveal his sources

  64. Jermaine,

    1) It is a reasonable assumption that Cliff checked his source. But when the information is challenged, he must be prepared to defend it.

    2) Revealing his source is not the only way he can authenticate the email. He can state that he received a hard copy of the email and as such he cannot verify whether the email was tampered with, but he can state for a fact that he trust his source…i.e. that his source would not do such a thing. Here, he would give us the circumstances by which he understands that the email is authentic.

    3) He could insist that an IT expert retained by Nationwide is allowed to forensically inspect the computer of the person who printed it, under circumstances of complete anonymity.
    Or request that the email is fwded to him electronically.
    If the person refused certain basic ways of verifying that the email was not spoofed, then Cliffs alarms should start going off.

    4) Cliff has not said that he was SURE. But even if he did, he has to let us know the circumstances by which he became SURE.

    If Cliff refuses to verify the email, especially after being challenged, he cannot expect us to believe in veracity 100%.

    5) The lawsuit thing against Cliff, is a subterfuge. David has about 3 legal battles going on right now….why in the world would be reasonable to expect that he would file a 4th lawsuit.

  65. Turth,

    How do you know that the email was not sent to Cliff electronically? Turth I know more than you do and I am telling you for a FACT that the info is true. Thats all I will say for now

  66. Jermaine, you said this earlier :

    QUOTE 1:
    [ “kensimmo I am going off what CLiff says, am not saying that Cliff is right” ]

    QUOTE 2:
    [ “JohnDoe I agree yah, it seems like you know for a fact John. While i dont know for a fact I think it is genuine”]

    How can you now say that you know for a fact? Are you getting confused with what your own thoughts are? These two previous statements seem contradictory to me.

    Moreover, when you say that “how do I know that he did not receive it electronically”…that is exactly my point, I don’t know and so I am demanding to know, and it is simple thing for Cliff to tell us without compromising hi sources.

    The fact he does not even tell us this, may indicate that he cannot say it.

    Jermaine, yeah, is better you leave this argument alone, and get back to me later when you straighten out what your thoughts are!

  67. So Jermaine, you cant tell us how you know now for fact? are you sworn to secrecy? did the same source that tell Cliff also tell you, and made you swear not to reveal your source?

    Why all this secret source business? is who you protecting so?

  68. This would have been hilarious if it was not serious business.

    1.No one has question the source of all emails that Olint has allegedly send since Jan to his investors updating them on the company. Does anyone here know for a fact that they were prepared and sent by DS.

    2. Could not someone “spoof” his mail and sent out all those correspondence.

    3. If DS can say ” I did not send out all those email from January” , how could all you investors proved he did.

    4. Did anyone of your question the authenticity of those emails. ?
    If not why, was this the case. Oh, Its what you wanted to hear so it was readily accepted and gobbled up.

    5. What if DS himself did not send out all those previously emails, and neither did he send out this latest one.

    6. What I if I told you however, that he had detailed knowledge of all those emails.

    7. What If I told you further that DS lawyers are prepared to get DS of the hook saying he did not lie to investors and that he did not send any of the previous emails.

    Do you have any emails with DS signature on them to prove that he did send them?

    Do you all have any written correspondence or updates on the status of your accounts with DS signature affixed to any on them?

    Having read what I have written above, would you wonder why this is the case. Oh yes, its much easier to communicate to its clients via email.

    So to all those folks who think DS sent all the previous emails but not this one check and see if you can determine the authenticity of each of those correspondence.

    The high profile set of lawyers are here to protect DS, so who is going to protect the interest of the investors.

    BTW, pull out the last agreement you guys just signed and read it over very very carefully.

    When you are done, answer this question.

    Do you feel comfortable that your interest is protected and if so, why would you feel the way you do.

  69. I never invested in Olint, so I’m not holding out hope for anything as such. I jut think that Cliff Hughes was irresponsible in the way he handled the email issue. It’s like a cop who “knows” a criminal is guilty, and so, goes and plants evidence on the “criminal” to ensure his arrest and conviction. It’s not right.

    Frankly, the “smoking” email scenario just seems too scripted and dramatic. It could be legit, but one would have to wonder why on earth would someone incriminate themself by sending such an email to their wife who lives with them.

    MadRass said :

    “I know David Smith is keeping abreast by reading this blog: well hear dis:
    If Jamaicans dont get them money their is no rock you can hide under.
    Every time you pickney dem out yuh site yuh going to wonder if we tek dem
    Everything you love and cherish will disappear …i promise you
    False dishonest christian you are i hope god strike you down
    Yuh brother wayne who like pay out him fren dem …we know him deh a new york…the man dem have him lock already..
    money still a draw out a NCB acccount..wi dun know every thing a gwaan..
    Yuh cant leave turks till yuh pay every last jamaican wi a mek sure a dat”

    You really are a madman. It is one thing to want your money. It’s another thing to threaten a man’s family. What did his children do to you? You should lose everything you have just for those sentiments.

  70. Jay:

    This is the funny part; DS was quick to say that “he” did not write the email, but said nothing (not even in “his” authentic email) about where or why the funds are not available to pay investors. On Cliff’s program, he quickly said, the email is a fake and run. So, DS, where is the so-call money? Is it being held up due to DD? Is it being blocked from being sent by “authorities or banks?

    This alone makes this whole fiasco seems suspicious? Again, people are focusing on the wrong issue. Whether the email is a fake or not does not address the issue of why investors are not being paid. The only relevance of the email is the fact that it proclaims that Olint is Bankrupt and was a Ponzi. Now, frankly, I don’t need DS to tell me that…..that was a long gone conclusion from January of this year!

  71. If the TCI Investigative unit bring in forensic accountants they will go through the servers and email addresses of Olint and DS. If they do they will see all email accounts that have been contacted by DS & O and will have them on record as persons contacted.

    In relation to the email supposedly sent by DS to his wife, the email would have the IP (Internet protocol) address of the server the email came from and could be verified as coming from a PC, Laptop with that IP address either at the home of DS or O. The receiver of the email i.e. his wife could verify by going into her properties section of her email and could find out which IP address the email came from. If CLIFF received the “so called” email electronically he could find out the IP address. Once you have the IP address you can track down the broadband supplier and track who owns the IP address.

    Finally the Gleaner indicated that a Jamaican developer said” he has known Ds for a while and was shocked that he was raided. Interestingly, who is the developer? The developer could be an interesting character, clue, he (the developer) could have had a confrontation himself with the BOJ and Dextra bank a while back. Just a few thoughts for discussion. Great blog.

  72. Cliff can clear his name, all he has to do is provide the evidence that due diligence 🙂 was performed on the email before he read it on the air… If he cant, his days dark, dark, dark…..

    Robin Irie mussi related to Cliff the way how him a defend deh man widout proof….

  73. Jay,
    The important points that that your response misses, and these critical, are:
    1) DS have never challenged any previous emails before. He challenged this one
    2) This particular email in question was never actually sent to club-members. The previous emails were
    3) The previous emails were sent out and posted on this and other sites and on the local newspapers, and he did not challenge them

    your entire response is fallacious and flawed because you equate the situation with all previously sent emails that clubmembers received, with this one situation where the email was not received by clubmembers, and journalist claims to have gotten from some unidentified source, and DS challenged its authenticity.

    This is not about DS or Cliff, it is about the standards of journalistic responsibility.

    I keep referring to Dan Rather. Nobody ever challenged Dan Rather before on his reporting, but in 2004 somebody did. And when they did, he couldnt back it up. He got fired for that!

    So, Jay, you know what DS lawyers are doing? You know what legal strategy that are going to use? you coming like Janice now, who you criticize for secret source. You bug DS apartments, Jay?

  74. Let me ask you Jay….do you know for a fact that the email is genuine?

    If so, would be so kind as to tell us how? Let us not hear biased flawed reasoning as you basis where fill in gaps and plug in holes, and do whole heap road construction on the argument, leaving out facts, and answers to critical questions, in order to make your argument work.

    Let us hear the facts upon which you base your conclusion that the email is genuinely from, written, or authored by DS, and not spoofed, spammed, tampered, or manufactured?

  75. Davesin,

    you cant claim that the emails authenticity is not relevant, when Investforlife created a thread entitled “email, real or fake?”. Are you challenging investforlife on their judgment of what is relevant?

    Moreover, after claiming that it is not relevant, then you say “well it is relevant in terms of confirming that Olint is bankrupt’. You just contradicted yourself.

  76. Anyone really checking out Ms. ingrid Loiten – buy two houses in South Africa, X5 cash, 7million dollars in Zambia, office in nelson Mandela square. Living it up so big and we only concentrating on David. Whants up with this woman?

  77. Checking in from zambia. We are closely monitoring Ingrid Loiten who is hiding inSouth Africa come to Zambia living the big life. What is jamaica’s concern on their people who come over and with so much MONEY!

  78. Truth:

    Let me ask you this.

    Does the authenticity of the email change the outcome of whether funds exist to repay Olint Investors?

    Yes or No?

    Does the authenticity of the email PREVENT DS from issuing a statement of the status of the Club? Is it bankrupt? Will it be able to meet the total encashment request to date? Will it be able to continue as a going concern?

    Yes or No?

    Does the authenticity of the email provide ANY relief to Club members?

    Yes or No?

    If you genuinely answer these simple questions YOU would conclude that the authenticity of the email is IRRELEVANT…it does not change the OUTCOME….it is NOT a material factor…plain and simple!!

    Bottom-line: who cares where the email is real or fake. It will not impact the issue at hand, which for most club members is getting their encashment. So, show us the money DS. Lets forget about this email academic exercise.

  79. here is a key question in this email:

    Should journalist engage in fact checking and source verification before they reports news as fact?

    Secondly, should the press, from time to time, when challenged on the accuracy of their reporting, be made to defend their reporting with the fact checking and source verification that they used.

    Third, if they, the press, were misled should they have to print or announce a retraction? (Which they have done in the past from time to time)

    What is interesting is that people on this blog were quick to point out that the gleaner got the facts wrong on the Olint miami office raid. The gleaner was challenged and they could not back it up. Nobody wen off on this long thing defending the gleaner and the millions of reporting that they got right over the decades. They just simply saw that the gleaner got it wrong on this point.

    The same thing when the observer got the NFA complaint against Olint/DS wrong.

    Now, when a fact is challenged as presented by Cliff Hughs, a different standard applies. Nobody must ever question or challenge Cliff Hughs.

    Dont you guys see how silly that position is?

    J’cans know how fallible their own local press and journalists are. You guys are arguing’ in a paternalistic manner, like say J’cans don’t have any common sense

  80. This makes no sense at all. Cliff should report facts and not fictions.

  81. Davesin, do you think investforlife got it wrong by posting this thread?

    Why dont you criticize investforlife and ask them to taked own this thread.

    You are being silly. If investforlife ask us to comment on the emails authenticity, why in the world would you now claim, as an argument, that this whole discussion is irrelevant?

    you are not making any sense? if you dont think it relevant, then go to a thread that you think is.

  82. Truth:

    You are obviously missing the bigger issue. Let me spell it out to you AGAIN.

    Whether or not the email is a fake, it does not impact what should clearly be, the issue of where is the money!

    O.K. the email is a fake. What’s next for Olint Investors?

  83. Davesin,

    The fact that you are trying to change the subject shows that you dont think you can prevail on this argument.

    Secondly, to answer your questions directly:

    Does the authenticity of the email change the outcome of whether funds exist to repay Olint Investors?

    Answer is No. Not in existential sense. But it does confirm a piece to the puzzle that will make people sleep less easier at night, or make people know that Olint’s bankruptcy is confirmed. If the email is shown to be false, then it proves a far-reaching meticulous conspiracy. This is relevant to how everyone perceives what is unfolding before our eyes

    Does the authenticity of the email PREVENT DS from issuing a statement of the status of the Club? Is it bankrupt? Will it be able to meet the total encashment request to date? Will it be able to continue as a going concern?

    Answer is: Here you are changing the subject. good try.) Let me turn it around on you. Why are you trying introduce encashment requests on a topic about the forgery of an email. This is the title of this thread posted by the authors of this site. If you want to discuss Olint’s encashment requests go to another thread.

    Does the authenticity of the email provide ANY relief to Club members?

    Yes, it does if it shown to be false because it demonstrates that the fact, if false, that there is a conspiracy to bring down DS. Think about the implications of forged email spoofed from DS and presented to first rate journalist who presents it on national radio. This has big -time implications.

  84. Dave sin

    This is the first i will agree with u

    If the email fake thats Cliff Hughes problem, and this will not help the investor

    While i can say i came out good in Olint other persons are suffering.

    Last night i saw an investor who is near retirement,
    he invested in olint and left most of his funds to roll over.

    All he is doing is crying because he has no money left.

    He sit and ponder what next for him

    DS people are suffering if it means selling some or your assets which you have to give to people do so

    If you have the funds and it is actually frozen please tell
    the people and prove it

    DS have a heart this is not about u or your family who is rich.

    Thousand of people will suffer tremendous losses

    Ds is it fair that u and the family can still pay your bill,while others cannot.

    It a good thing that i had the since to take my funds on a monthly basis, so i have not made a lost,

    DS people trust u , so prove your that we are right, the SILENCE IS DEFFINING

  85. Davesin said:

    “O.K. the email is a fake. What’s next for Olint Investors?”

    Well, we can then close down this thread. And then Investforlife can open a new thread. its that simple.

    But are you willing to say that the email was fake, so that wecan actually move on? I bet your answer is no. Then you are going to turn around and use the email as proof in some later conversation that Olint is “confirmed” as bankrupt

  86. I agree that people are hurting, and it also stumps me as to why DS is not saying anything. But you never know what legal advice he is following. But as far the email goes, if it is false, we should know

  87. There are lawyers to defend DS from money laudering charges, there are lawyers to prevent O from registering with the FSC and there are lawyers to prevent NCB from closing accounts. There may even be lawyers to sue Cliff hughes from slander.

    But There is no lawyers to fight to get the bank/broker from releasing funds.Doesn’t anyone think this is strange.

  88. Truth, DaveSin is backed in a corner with your questions, the fact is that the owner of the site created this thread to discuss the email issue… There are other threads that DaveSin can go argue where the money deh… Cliff has no proof of authenticity, if he did, he would have released a statement… He is screwed…..

  89. Janice,

    Again, I agree with your calls to DS.

    It makes no sense why he cant tell us that he has the money, and show us something that proves it.

    It makes no sense.

  90. *** Breaking News ***
    William ‘Bill’ Clarke of BNS has been fired.

  91. janice Said: …”Dave sin: This is the first i will agree with u”…..

    Janice does that mean I’m not such a Jack**s anymore? Or I have a way to go?

  92. CJ.

    I just heard the same thing, I wonder whats up with that.

  93. Janice is talking sense now. Welcome into the “light”, leave the “dark side” behind .

  94. Where is the link for the BNS news?

  95. Truth:

    You see we have gotten to the bottom of this whole issue of the “authenticity” of the email.

    No Olint investor wants to hear the words “bankrupt” or “Ponzi”. Right? I finally get it! Cool….

    Truth, yes, you can continue debate whether or not the email is a fake, if it makes you feel better.

  96. Guys Listen

    DS blundered badly

    When the due dilligence started in December 2007

    he foolishly was meeting with the broker and its banks without legal representation that is why this has been draged out

    These people are highly intelligent and knows the laws of the land, it was only two weeks ago that he hired lwayer in the states to help him, because his very big investor met with him and started to put pressure on him to seek llawyers

  97. Truth,

    It was just on Nationwide.

  98. Bill Clarke was set to retire soon any way!! True?

  99. Bill Clake has been fired

    I will tell u more i have freinds in BNS who works with him but they are in a meeting

    Remember nobody is bigger that God

    Bill Clarke got what was comming to him

  100. Davesin,

    What would make me feel better is if Cliff Hughs confirmed the email today (he alluded to this on wednesday, after DS called in and denied it, that he would have done that yesterday but he was silent yesterday, which has to make any thinking person wonde why he was so silent since it would have been a simple thing to address it. And it must have been a top priority on his mind).

    I am not debating whether the email is real or fake. I am calling for Cliff to do his job.

    In the meantime, I am just trying to gather information…if someone claims to know that the email is genuine, beating Cliff to the punch before he himself announces it, I just want
    to know how they know that? thats all.

  101. Truth,

    Knowing what you know now are you questioning anything that DS has told you in the past.

    1. Are you questioning which broker had DS under DD

    2. Are you going to question which broker had Olint funds and would not release them.

    3. Are you going to question, why the DD has lasted more than 6 months.

    4. Are you going to question why DS posted gains for the last 6 months even though its now apparent that he was not trading.

    5. Are you going to question if there is any money at all left in Olint.

    No, you dont plan to do that, yet you are here deriding Cliff and his reading of an email and trying to prove that CH was wrong to read it.

    The problem with us Jamaicans (some) is we get caught up with none issues, while the bigger issues are left untouched.

    So lets the email was not genuine , and CH got it wrong, SO WHAT?

    How does that affect the outcome of Olint.

    Are you going to ask the questions I posed above.

  102. Does the Nationwide News stream work?

    I can never connect…..always get an error in Media Player.

  103. Jay “So lets the email was not genuine , and CH got it wrong, SO WHAT?”, ITS THE OWNER OF THIS SITE CREATED THE THREAD, IF U NUH LIKE WAH A SEH OVA YAH, MOVE ON MI BOSS…

  104. Jay,
    My answer to your questions is YES. I will ask those questions with you and I have.. Do you want to ask Investforlife to start another thread entitled “unanswered questions”. I would gladly join you there. And I will be an ardent critic of DS silence.

    But will you stop insulting Investforlife by saying they started an irrelevant, meaningless, unimportant blog thread.

    You see, Investforlife (since I am assuming that they are endeavoring to be journalists themselves) understands the importance of this issue of the credibility of a journalistic report. You, Jay, dont seem to share that view. So, inadvertently, Jay, you are now officially involved in a debate against Investforlife. I wonder who will win.

  105. there are 2 ways to know when a business is breaking up.
    1) when they cant pay their bills
    2) when they start calling on God

    This blog is now behaving like a church

  106. David hire lawyer to fight everything else, yet there are no lawyers to fight the funds beng held up, because there are no funds.

  107. People have such little faith.

    Why y’all keep feeding DS with information for him to come out and say he has no funds. I’m sure he reads the blogs and see that y’all have given up

  108. Jay, at least, Davesin has enough common sense to leave this alone, and move on. You are creating more problems for yourself by continuing with this line of reasoning. But I guess some people are just that stubborn. You dont see how you are undermning the authors of this site.

  109. Truth:

    I like you routine of deflecting issues away from you, to now, investforlife. Very tactical approach.

  110. jd32: The stream is working fine. Have you ever get it to work in the past?

  111. But Davesin, all fun aside, it was Investforlife who started this blog thread titled “email real or fake”. There was even a previous blog titled “email bogus or DS lying. Evidently it was important enough for Investforlife to start two blog threads on this matter. And then, Investforlife asks us, the viewing public, to comment on it.

    It might be good tactics but it is also common sense. Why attack the relevance of this topic when the authors have pushed us twice to view it as relevant. If Jay cant see how an attack on the relevance of the topic is an attack on investforlife, then his is just being stubborn. Sometimes when you “lose a battle it dont mean you lose the war” as the old saying goes. Sometimes you have to learn when fold and move on.

    But I commend you for having enough basic common sense though to keep it moving

  112. DaveSin:

    …..I have never been able to access the stream…….located in Canada….don’t know if that has any bearing…..

    Right now…the go-jamaica (winamp) stream isn’t working either….hopefully that’s unrelated

  113. Majid,

    “Robin Irie mussi related to Cliff the way how him a defend deh man widout proof….”

    You dont hear mi seh DS must sue the man and put him out of business? Sue now.

  114. Robin Irie, Cliff quiet now, must be assembling his team of lawyers as well… LOL Maybe you saying that to throw off suspicion… Mine is you send him the email… What u is, IT?

  115. investforlife

    About MadRass’s post this morning. For the sake of decency, your rules should discourage criminal threats against the person of anyone (in this case DS and his family). I don’t know if he or she was joking, but words like that are dangerous at this time. DS is a thief, not a murderer.

  116. Truth,

    I see how your flawed reasoning resulted in you making bad decisions.
    I am not taking issue with the thread itself, my issue is you guys who are trying to discredit the emminent Journalist Cliff Hughes, a man which has shown much more integrity than the guy you are trying to protect.

    My point is we share a totatly different view as it relates to the authenticity of the email.
    You for example would like to believe that the email was fabricate as that would offer a glimmer of hope for investors.
    I can understand your position , but believe that your energies are focused in the wrong direction.

    I believe that the email is genuine and Olint is almost broke ie not able to pay back All investors.

    I am pretty sure that Cliff got it right as usual.

  117. janice said…”While i can say i came out good in Olint other persons are suffering.

    Last night i saw an investor who is near retirement,
    he invested in olint and left most of his funds to roll over.

    All he is doing is crying because he has no money left”…

    Not that I’m picking on you or anything, but are you prepare to give back any “excess” over your initial investment should Olint be deemed a Ponzi?

    Will you do the right thing and help out that crying man?

    The same question for all those Olinters who got back more than they put in (the smart ones)?

    I’m just canvassing the “positive”, “god fearing”, “not greed” Olinters?

  118. Jay, did I say I invested and lost money? Why are you resorting to making up facts. I see this is how reason…you make up facts then assume it to be evidence.

    Did I say that the email was fabricated? I was DS that indicated that email was fabricated. Not me. If someone challlenges a journalist, it just makes common sense that he would put it to rest. Why cant you see that? It common sense

    Jay, you argue like a deaf person. Why do you attack people who simply ask a question.

    As the quote says “never stop holding your press to be accountable because it he press that holds the nation accountable”.

    You guys attack anything that does not agree with your agenda.

    Is not this called cognitive dissonance. Your point comes into contradiction with your previous point but your mind cant let it go so you “flail and grab at straws” to attack others motives and change the subject. This is childish reasoning at its best

    Why cant you discuss things reasonably.

    Then after all that you end by saying “you are sure cliff is right as usual”.

    I did not attack Cliff. I just asked him to do what he indicated he would do.

    Why this knee–jerk culture by you guys where you cant see any point contrary to your point. Its like you are rabid dogs blinded by fanaticism

    I expect better from you guys

  119. Jay, you say you are “not taking issue with the thread itself” but yet you say the thread topic is irrelevant. You tek people fi idiat.

    Let me break it down for you. If the topic of the “authenticity of the email is irrelevant”, then INVESTFORLIFE should not have wrote two posts on that topic and ask our views. It simple.

    You guys are too clever for your own good. You cant even see that you should let this go. Pride is something else. No humility by anyone.

    Now you find yourself in a bind and cant come out. Rather than let it go like Davesin did, you stubbornly a try everything desperate

  120. Now I am hearing that Bill Clarke NOT fired. Don’t know what gives with this story

  121. Truth wrote :

    “My answer to your questions is YES. I will ask those questions with you and I have”.

    “Now you find yourself in a bind and cant come out. Rather than let it go like Davesin did, you stubbornly a try everything desperate”.

    My postion has not changed, I have consistently been berating the fact the so man have been so consumed by the “phenomenal gains” that they have failed to ask all the relevant questions.

    Cliff broke a story the contents which I beleive are genuine and truly explains why Olint is now in the position that it is in.

    I did not expected DS to admit it, as he has failed to answer in the past so many question that have been asked of him.

    If we are therefore waiting for DS to admit to running a PONZI operations, he will NOT and he has made sure that he has gotten on board a bunch of top lawyers to make sure he does not have to make any such admission.

    The sad thing however is that he will be using whatever remains in Olint accounts to defend himself while once again showing is lack of care of his investors who he cares for so much.

    Why I am not surprized, well its because even to this day people are still defending CH and he has proven himself to be nothing more than a crook on more than one occassion.

    Cliff in fact was very smart yesterday, not to reveal any more information as most folks were tuned in expecting another bombshell.

    Guess he opted to hold off and keep all of us salivating for more information.

    Olint has retained his lawyers, I suggest that Olint clients get together and get their own lawyers as right now is “every man for himself”.

    Just heard Scotia denying that Bill Clarke was fired. I guess they did not verify their source once again 🙂

  122. Who broke the Bill Clarke story, Cliff? ahahahah

  123. Ok, Jay, this much better. The tone is much improved. Sound like we can start reason again.

    But I one thing, which goes to heart of the email issue. It is now immaterial as fasr as Cliff is concerned whether DS further addresses the email (eventhough I think he should address it).

    Cliff has to now as a journalist back up his reporting. If he was silent yesterday as a ratings ploy, then we will see later today, and he would have done what thinking people are asking him to do, which put to rest questions surrounding the email’s authenticity from his side of the table so to speak.

    You theory about the ratings ploy to keep us tuned, is an interesting one, and will be tested later today. If it wrong, and Cliff still dont say anything, I hope you will be the first one to start calling for Cliff to verify his reporting

  124. Truth

    Jay, you say you are “not taking issue with the thread itself” but yet you say the thread topic is irrelevant. You tek people fi idiat.

    Irrelevant to what, the thread name or Olint.

    Come on man speak the truth or change your name:)

    Look at what I wrote:

    So lets the email was not genuine , and CH got it wrong, SO WHAT?

    How does that affect the outcome of Olint.

    Did you see that?

    My post was that the email genuine , how does it affect the outcome of Olint.

    If you beleive that DS has US$750M and refuses to pay investors then either:

    1. DS is a wicked man and does not understand the suffering that his clients are going through.

    2. DS is simply is a liar and has not been telling his clients the truth all along on what really is going on.

    If I were an investor I would NOT believe anything that comes out of DS mouth at this point in time.

    But, hey thats me. 🙂

    I am not very fond of those who do not play fair

  125. Majid,

    How often have we heard this type of thing in Jamaica.
    First deny the report then later on admit it.

    As dem seh ” If it nuh go so e nearly go so”.

    So was Bill Clarke fired because he refused to resign when he was asked to, or will we hear that he will be or has resigned.

    We will see.

  126. Jay, well Nation Wide had better get this one right or its not going to be around much longer because then they will have BNS and DS suing them at once ….

  127. Hmmm… Email true or not… If it is true, no money no deh is confirmed. If it’s false, where is the money? Why does DS refuse to confirm the money. This would have prevented or stop the run on Olint.

    There seems an appalling lack of common sense or exercise of common sense among many of us Jamaicans. If Olint had the money all DS has to show is proof and it stops the run and most of his problems. Exercising common sense should indicate to even the most supportive that if in these circumstances he is not showing proof of the funds then he has no funds.

    Seems like when you follow some and invest “what you can afford to lose” that there are 2 related consequences. 1st: Part of your investment will go to pay huge legal fees for a small army of lawyers to defend the principal and the “club” while also filing lawsuits against 3rd parties.

    2nd: When you invest “what you can afford to lose”, you better simultaneously start your own legal fund. You are also likely going to lose that too while you try to recover some of the money you lost.

  128. The TCi investigators have DS computers.

    Soon we will know If:

    How much assets were frozen and if Olint have or had money to pay investors.

    We will know if that email about olint was real.

    The email is very important because if it is porved fake, then conspiracy theories will fly and have a valid reason.

    July 31 is also a big date

    If JM cannot answer NFA questions:

    Who,What.Where and Why over 100mil was moved around between DS, ITFx, JIJ and IL and god knows who else.

    I think the TCI investigation wont give answer anytime soon….it might be a long ivestigation.

    But the NFA investigation into ITFX might give little anwers or help put the pieces of the puzzle together.

  129. everybody who is on this Blog has lost money with Olint, only ppl who lose is going to come here and talk. They are filled with hopes and dreams.
    There is no one who made money from him that would waste their time here. Only the hopers and dreamers are here.

  130. let us all just be honest with ourselves

  131. Money talk and bull shit walks.

    If you invest you money, haven’t gotten paid for 7 months and your broker or fund manager hiding from you what does that tell you?

  132. I said in the C- blog and I will say it again. These ufos will moke some people very rich But when the dust settles many many more will be poorer.

    So much for giving people a way out. That is bull shit walking.

  133. Best post on this blog. From nocotec

    “There seems an appalling lack of common sense or exercise of common sense among many of us Jamaicans. If Olint had the money all DS has to [do is] show proof and it stops the run and most of his problems. Exercising common sense should indicate to even the most supportive that if in these circumstances he is not showing proof of the funds then he has no funds.”

    Logic and Reason

  134. 1.We have been misinformed the assets seized were David smith not olint or olint tci. He is free to send money from bank account in the uS etc once its in olint’s name and David Smith.

    2. If he has the money why does he give members proof that he does. Or have a 3rdparty like an auditor provide how much assets Olint has. Then the auditors woul;d later determine O liabilities at a later date. thats not hard to do.

    3. Whya r the clubs still accepting new members and new money? If Olint is found to be embezzling in the light of what is going on theyt could be implicated as accessories. Do the heads of these clubs know something that we do not. Not sure.

  135. correction to 1 line 3 not david smith is the intented words

  136. If there are lawyers trying to get the brokers to release fund why aren’t these lawyers in communication with us. They can verify thatthe money is there since O cannot find a auditors.

  137. Lots of things look strange…DS ….we need answers

  138. I love christians when all else fails call on god!…..

    some a u greasecans neva memba god when money a roll in, now all of a sudden everyone assualting his name because you were not good stewards of what he gave you…..

    I guess when superdave was getting the lap dances at platinum it was a holy and godly lap dance….. after all the bible does say thou “shalt sit erect (pun intended) whilst sexy dulcie bounceth hey beautities in your face (is that in the book of horny chapter 6 verse 9).

    How about superdaves gambling spree, that man blow more money at platinum and las vegas than u make in a year, where is the holy in that?

    Stop bothering god, he has famines and droughts and george bush to deal with.

    Superdave using the last remnants of our money to save his ass.

    May he rot in hell!!!

  139. I am listen to nationwide..Somebody say emily say(hearsay again) Bill Clarke is FIRED from BNS.

    I listen to RJR early…..12,o clock news…..said Bill clark say him not fired!

    What the hell is going on with Jamaican new LOL!

  140. #
    CJ, on July 18th, 2008 at 12:32 pm Said:

    Best post on this blog. From nocotec

    “There seems an appalling lack of common sense or exercise of common sense among many of us Jamaicans. If Olint had the money all DS has to [do is] show proof and it stops the run and most of his problems. Exercising common sense should indicate to even the most supportive that if in these circumstances he is not showing proof of the funds then he has no funds.”

    Logic and Reason

    The problem with this so called reasoning is:
    1)The TCI police froze assets in TCI

    2) Also, the gleaner, that darling of the newspaper bastions left in Jamaica, reported from a source that (it too like cliff has chosen not reveal) $200M was wired into a prominent bank by DS.

    3) DS assembled a team of high powered lawyers.

    So what we have are straight facts that seem to indicate there is money

    On the other hand we have “reasonings” that ask us to throw out those facts out window. Proper and sound reason must take into account all facts on the table and not selectively edit out certain facts to suit one’s point of view.

  141. .
    Its only a test
    Hold on through your storm
    Be strong and hold on this test is your storm
    But it wont be long
    go through
    hold on

    David will come through

  142. Email is one important fact that if established, will be pretty definitive in showing that Olint is broke.

    To use the reasoning previously by CJ or nocotec,
    since Cliff does not show his proof of the email verified, then common sense says he is lying.

    Notice how that this requires me to rule out every single other possible reason why Cliff could decide not to show his proof. Its called an assumption. The question is how reasonable is this assumption. CJ and nocotec would say that “but hold on, there are other reasons why Cliff could be silent”.

    When you make an assumption without realizing it, or without realizing what all the other plausible assumption are, you leave your argument open to serious scrutiny.

    But note, when others do same thing, that is assume that there cannot be any other plausible assumption that explains why DS is saying nothing, the reasoning must be accepted as valid.

    This is a double standard!

    There is an old saying……”dont tell me your conclusions, tell me your assumptions and I WILL TELL YOU your conclusions” .

  143. Truth: There is much cognitive dissonance across the land which seems to have found a home with many UFO investors.

    1. When the court issues an order to freeze assets, it in no way is a reflection on the amount of assets. The accounts are frozen whether they have 1 cent or they have $1 Billion. You are implying that the fact that accounts were froze means there are significant assets. This cannot be implied as you have no idea how much money is in the accounts.

    2. The Gleaner article you referred to was discredited.

    3. DS’s assets and Olint’s assets are supposed to be separate… Although as apparent from the NFA case, he has been co-mingling his assets with those of Olint (this is illegal in most jurisdictions). The frozen assets are only in TCI. This means that DS may be able to pay attorneys from his personal assets in other countries. By the way, do investors know what his fees are? Do they know if it is say 90 % of the fund balance each month?

  144. nocotec. but that is exactly my point.

    We dont know how much is frozen in TCI so noone can assume that it is 1cents or $500M. So for anyone to say there is no money when there is a court ordered freeze on Olint/DS accounts is going a bit too far.

    But if I were to employ reason and common sense, it seems highly unlikely that TCI police and Supreme Court would freeze his assets if he only had $1. So using common sense, it is reasonable that the assets are indicative of something real not negligible like $50, or why waste the courts time as a practical matter.

    The gleaner source is still alive and well. The discredting comes from NCB making a claim that few believe. But it is interesting to see that when it suits others they feel free to question the authenticity of a newspapers source, then turn around and argue that no-one else should should question cliff highs source

    One thing I know about lawyers, they dont take cases, especially those fought multiple fronts if there is no money. That, we can all take to the bank.

  145. Did Cliff collect anyone’s money and promise them abnormally high returns? You could argue whether the email is true or not and whether Cliff verified his sources until the cows come home… it is not going to change the relevant issues with Olint.

    Are you a refugee from the # 4 blog 🙂 There is a point of view common on that blog that one should not speculate but wait for the facts. Investing successfully is about trying to predict the future. How can one do that if you wait until the facts are in? You cannot invest based on past gains. You must invest based on future expectations. In other words we are using available information to make predictions (speculate on the future).

    For example:
    1. Given available information, is the email more likely accurate than Not?
    2. Given available information, is Olint more likely a ponzi than Not a ponzi?
    3. Given available information, does Olint more likely still have money than not?

    These are the type of questions prudent investors ask. One bases decisions on the answers. If you wait to find out if the principals will be convicted of running a ponzi scheme before making a decision, your money will be long gone.

    By the way you are wrong about lawyers. They will take cases if there are assets, not necessarily money. E,g., If you have a multi-million dollar house without a mortgage some will take the case with a security. Further the fees to pay these lawyers are going to be a lot less than the money needed for investors. And lawyers will often take your case until the available money runs out…

    But man you are experiencing a really serious case of cognitive dissonance.

  146. Did Cliff collect anyone’s money and promise them abnormally high returns? You could argue whether the email is true or not and whether Cliff verified his sources until the cows come home… it is not going to change the relevant issues with Olint.

    Are you a refugee from the # 4 blog 🙂 There is a point of view common on that blog that one should not speculate but wait for the facts. Investing successfully is about trying to predict the future. How can one do that if you wait until the facts are in? You cannot invest based on past gains. You must invest based on future expectations. In other words we are using available information to make predictions (speculate on the future).

    For example:
    1. Given available information, is the email more likely accurate than Not?
    2. Given available information, is Olint more likely a ponzi than Not a ponzi?
    3. Given available information, does Olint more likely still have money than not?

    These are the type of questions prudent investors ask. One bases decisions on the answers. If you wait to find out if the principals will be convicted of running a ponzi scheme before making a decision, your money will be long gone.

    By the way you are wrong about lawyers. They will take cases if there are assets, not necessarily money. E,g., If you have a multi-million dollar house without a mortgage some will take the case with a security. Further the fees to pay these lawyers are going to be a lot less than the money needed for investors. And lawyers will often take your case until the available money runs out…

    But man you are experiencing a really serious case of cognitive dissonance. 🙂

  147. People on the other bus are adding Bill Clarke to the list of why Olint failed.

  148. nocotec,

    1) we are talking about investing. We are talking about does an email prove that DS is broke. Nice try with the subject change.

    2) why get personal. it is dirty trick to try turn attention away from the points that you cant deal with. could you stop trying make things personal

    3) noone is saying that people should do what they have to do to try to secure their money. But as far as whether the email shows Olint is broke definitvely can be proven right now if Cliff just verified the thing. What is so hard to understand about that.
    This is the cognitive dissonance you are experiencing:
    1) Olint has some indications that money is there but your mind cant accept any evidence to the contrary. You explain it away or selectively edit it out because you cant accept anything that could prove your theory wrong

    ok, so I agree with you that what you is speculate, and speculate, and speculate. I wont argue with you there.

  149. truth; The big problem with your argument is that Dave Smith has a fiduciary responsibility to me. That is even more so because he has missed several contractual deadlines to give pay me monies to which I was contractually entitled.

    I am entitled at that point to say to David, for seven months you have violated my trust. Enough, show me some evidence.

    Cliff Hughes has a very different type of obligation to me which is not the same as David Smith’s obligation to me.

    Additionally, we dont know how what assets were frozen in the TCI, for all we know it might be $10,000, $57M, $200M or $600M.

    The “bank’ has issued a number of specific statements on that alleged $200M. Olint has not issued any statement which can be rebutted or verified. Why is that?

  150. “We are Not talking about investing on this thread”, I meant say previously

  151. Truth, lets make this simple. Give me one good reason for Olint’s silence on the $200M?

  152. CJ, I agree with you. See, I am not the enemy! 🙂

    But what you just said does not in any way contradict all that I have saying about asking Cliff to no longer be silent on the matter. We will see at 5pm today, what he does

  153. kullcull, we don’t know 100% that Olint failed. Its about 90% certain that it has and with each passing day of Olint’s silence the possibility that it has failed increases.

    But until someone independent looks at the books, it is not established that it has failed.

  154. CJ wrote,

    “Truth, lets make this simple. Give me one good reason for Olint’s silence on the $200M?”

    Well, it is plausible that his lawyers are giving him bad advice to not say anything.

    Now I dont know if thats the reason for his silence, but if you ask me to speculate on what a plausible reason is, then there it is.

    However, having said that, I am still perplexed by DS silence as well.

    I am perplexed by both DS silence and in another vein, by Cliff’s silence

  155. CJ

    Right now DS is looking out for himself. The legal case could take months to yrs. By that time most people would have moved on. So he is exhausting that . Any admission he makes now could hasten the case much faster. meaning he would be going to jail much quicker.

  156. To me a simple reason why Cliff is ‘silent’ would be because he is running a NEWS show and he has nothing NEW to add. He is under no obligation to debate Olint on his show every single day.

    After David’s denial, Cliff and Nationwide said unequivocally that they stood by their story. They know that their credibility is on the line. If in a month everyone is paid 100 % of their funds, then their credibility on this issue would be mud. On the other hand if in a month, we are still hearing ghost stories about Michael Lee Chin and the phantom $200M, and people still have not been paid, then the only people still questioning Cliff Hughes credibility will be the folks on the # 4 bus.

  157. the customesr need to come to together and get legal advice. they cannot keep hoping and praying. Its been 7 months and no answer…While the clubs continue to collect new members money. that money is probably going to pay O legal fees.

  158. @ CJ

    if the police detain you, you have been arrested. your freedom has been curtailed.

    If Olint has not paid out the money in a reasonable period, then it has failed. At what point are we to say it failed, say if nothing changes.. after 9 months, after 1 year, after 2 years ?

    Olint will never run out of excuses ( some of them justified bank freeze money) at what point can clients stop take excuses and call it a failure ?

  159. Truth, if the funds exist, how could it be to his detriment to say so? These are not his funds. Anyone who is suing or investigating him would be able to discover those funds anyway, so how would it put him in legal jeopardy to say where the funds are and who is holding them up?

    The longer the uncertainty persists is the more likely he will face additional criminal investigation and possibly charges and or civil lawsuits in numerous jurisdictions.

  160. CJ wrote:

    “To me a simple reason why Cliff is ’silent’ would be because he is running a NEWS show and he has nothing NEW to add. He is under no obligation to debate Olint on his show every single day.”

    Thats like saying that Dan Rather on 60 minutes did not have to back up his report on Bush AWOL army service because it is his show and doesnt have to debate Bush every day.

    Also, what is this “debate Olint every day” business. There is only one time that DS challenged Cliff. Not every day. You are grabbing at straws with that extreme comment.

    Of course, Cliff has an obligation for his own credibility sake to put to rest this story. If you cant see that, then you are being stubborn. But you have a right to be stubborn, its a free world 🙂

    When the New York Times put out a story that John Mccain was having an affair with a lobbyist, they were taken to task and had to man up that there was no evidence for that. You seem to live in a world where you think journalism can be rumor-mongering. Thats your world not mine, or most thinking people for that matter

    Its like you guys cant “pat your head and chew gum at the same time”. You can call for DS to not be silent while also call for Cliff to not be silent. The two are not mutually exclusive, unless you have an agenda.

    But seriously why defend Cliff’s silence. By doing so you are assuming that he cant defend his sourcing. Why assume that? Maybe you know something the rest of us dont?

  161. Truth: It is very common for journalists to report stories with nothing more than an attribution to a source. Look at the network news or newspapers in the USA, this is a very common practice. The reporter provides his editor with the source or sources and the editor decides whether it is credible enough to run the story. By the way, often the source at the White House are senior personnel like the Chief of Staff or Press Secretary.

    This is standard practice. Is this a Jamaican thing you are dealing with? If the USA networks can do that why can’t Cliff do the same thing? Many times when people stick with their story it is because the story is from senior staff in the organization. You are trying to place a different standard on Cliff than is normal.

    If journalists are forced to reveal their methods and sources there will be little to no investigative journalism. The reporting will be just like the Gleaner… the reporter is obviously invested in the UFOs so he goes to a blog and lifts a pro-Olint rumor and the Gleaner runs it as its headline story 🙂

  162. A journalist ( and a pollster) lives on their credibility. thats why people listen to them. thus Cliff would have to have checked out his sources, because he can suffer serious fallout if he does not

  163. Freezing assets takes no extra effort on the part of the court. A freezing order is just a piece of paper, very easy to write. The time it takes a court to freeze assets is the time it takes the judge to read the paper asking for the freeze and listen to the attorneys asking for the freeze. It probably took no more than 30 minutes, if that. This is, essentially, just a few more lines in the complaint or other document filed by the police. It is standard procedure to get a freeze so that whatever assets (cash, house, etc) that can be identified that is owned by the suspected offender is legally frozen so that he or she can’t spend it or move it out of the court’s jurisdiction until the court has heard the charges or resolved the dispute.

    A court will not freeze someone’s assets just because a policeman says he wants it to. You have to give the court good reason to take such a drastic action which inhibits a person’s right to enjoy the benefits of his or her property, especially since the person is not in front of the judge to give his or her side of the story. Once he has done so and got his freeze, your policeman has to move as quickly as possible to make his case or else he will face charges of malicious prosecution and abuse of the process of the court. That’s no joke and DS’s high-powered lawyers will not hesitate, I am sure.

    Anyway, don’t wait with bated breath for charges to be brought or an apology from the TCI police in the next few days. Think weeks and probably months.

    In the meantime, nothing except his self-interest and their ignorance and gullibility is stopping DS from disclosing to his creditors (sorry, club members) where and how much money there is.

  164. nocotec,

    If you have a confidential source that was an eyewitness to a thing then you can stand alone on the credibility of a source but this tricky territory for reasons I will explain on further below

    So for instance, if a source claims to overhear DS talking to tracy, then that would be under as different burden of proof.

    But even in that instance, a reporter cannot run a story off of just one source, because they cant fact check only one source. If they use only one source’s anonymous testimony, then there has to be other independently verifiable evidence whether by document or photo or video or by another source testimony. Something. If it is a high level source, then you have to at least indicate that a senior staff member said, but we did fact-check and corroborate.

    The reason for this fact-checking protocol is because newspapers have been burned by people with malicious agendas. And historically when they violate this fact-checking rule, they end up being burned. Remember the Jayson Blair drama at the NYTimes where he presented single anonymous sources and was shown to in fact be making it up. Remember, the New Republic fiasco with Stephen Glass who did even worse than that.

    Then most recently, the Dan Rather report, and the Mccain-Lobbyist affair story.

    All these examples underscore the importance of fact-checking as a back-bone to true journalism.

    Now in the case of an email, and not eyewitness testimony, the evidence is not hearsay…it is a document. Document authentication has to go through a fact-checking process, just like photos and videos because we know these can be tampered with. This is basic common sense here.

    With the email, Cliff had to have personally verified the email by either having the source email it to him and then Cliff would have an IT expert analyze it. Or Cliff would insist that the source allow his computer to be analyzed by the expert. Simple.

    If the source refuses to allow this, then Cliff has to insist that the source go on the record and not be anonymous, so that he public can determined for themselves the credibility of the information presented. This is how a journalist covers his ass. But if he goes out on a limb like what Dan Rather did, (and remember Dan Rather was a seasoned journalist better than Cliff) and throw good journalistic practices out the window in order to run a juicy story, then your days as a reliable journalist are numbered.

  165. Truth speaks much truth. There is no doubt that Cliff’s credibility is on the line. Cliff’s job and his professional career is also on the line. Let us not suggest that he does not know this, or that he is being reckless with his ability to earn an income in his chosen field. Having said that, it is pretty obvious that if he says it is so and the subject of the story denies it we are going to have to hear more in order to come to a conclusion on the truth of the matter. Since the real world doesn’t move as fast as cyberspace, we are going to have to wait a beat or two to discover the truth. Luckily, this won’t take as long as the TCI investigation into DS and Olint.

  166. Cliff all we need is the IP address of the email so we can at leats track the LOCATION of where the email was sent from and if it come from turks then bam wi catch the di tief.

    we dont need to know the “source” like dem fool fool ppl keep saying.

    Cliff weh di video deh!!

    Mi tired a unuh a seh DS a tief but nah provide nuh real evidence.

    Release the video

    Just track the location of where the email was sent from

    catch the tief!!!

    A report today in the gleaner said his family was with him when his house was raided.

    His wife is with him in turks and body know?

  167. I heard from a “good source” that Bill Clarke was fired for sexual harassment! This was not the first time, the bank has paid numerous hush-hush money for his unwanted advances. I guess his appetite was too much for the bank to wait until his retirement.

  168. Truth

    What you don’t understand is this. Cliff doesn’t have a duty to prove anything to you. He has a duty to satisfy himself that the email is authentic. Once he has done that he publishes and accept the consequences.

    Sue him if he is wrong.

    DS on the other hand have a duty to honour his contract to YOU. He has a moral duty to be truthful and to maintain you confidence.

  169. Mia

    So wont the IP address give away the source?

  170. Robin Irie,

    Are you saying that the Cliff as a journalist does not the “moral duty to be truthful and to maintain you confidence.”

    You don’t seem to understand what journalism is.

    Cliff has the duty to at least tell us that he verified the authenticity of the email by normal document authentication processes.

    If we start letting journalist be “kings in their own right” then what you do is foster the seeds of corruption.

    Again, are you saying that Dan Rather should noth ave been fired for doing the same exact thing that Cliff seems to have done? Why dont you apply your argument to every case where a journalist was taken to task, challenged and had to print a retraction or, worst, resign

    You know what J/cans have systemic problem with hero worship. You guys worship Cliff as he can never make a mistake.

    And the other side, worship DS that he could do no wrong.

    All you guys do is trade heroes but all of unno make the same mistake and don’t learn that you should never give any man the status of infallibility.

    I notice that nobody taking on the Dan Rather comparison. Hmmmm, I wonder why?

  171. You people have no faith. David will come through and we WILL get our money. The WOLF WILL lose this battle.

  172. Robin Irie,

    The ip address of ALL the computers that received the email and the one that sent it out will show..

    All nationwide reporters got to do is find the LAST IP on the least and he will know:

    WHat computer it came from.
    What region it was sent from.

    SO lets say DS ting him slick and say him neva send it.
    The location of where it was sent from eg. TCI will show.

    THat would be too much of a coincidence and NO sources revealed.

    All he needs is the IP address of the sender… if the email was forwarded that make sit easier!

    The IP address of everyone that recieved the email and the ORGINAL sender will show.


    look at your email account you will see the header information with all that jumble up crap that you recieve with your email.

  173. Robin Irie,

    AS a newsreporter you wil sometimes report thinks that are very sensitive and means alot to alot of people.

    That email that DS ADMITED that Olint is broke should never have been read without verifying it.

    I know somebodt that tell me they drove through a redlight and crash dem car when they heard the news.

    One next person blood pressure go sky high and have to go to hospital.

    If DS a tief he will be caught

    But journalist better make SURE them info correct before they give people heartattck and highblood or nervous break down.

  174. “Again, are you saying that Dan Rather should noth ave been fired for doing the same exact thing that Cliff seems to have done? ”

    It was proven that Dan Rather was wrong. It has not been proven that Cliff is wrong.

    I have been saying all day that DS lawyer can go to court on monday for an injunction and Cliff will have to show the judge cause. By Tuesday morning we will know the truth.

    Cliff has put his money where his mouth is. Time for DS to do the same.

  175. Cliff Hughes verified the email to HIS satisfaction. He is under no obligation to ME, to divulge a source who wishes to remain confidential. It is up to ME, to use all the information that I have; the overall situation with Olint, the fact that the source is specific but unnamed, to come to a conclusion about the veracity of the email. Cliff Hughes does not have to ram it down my throat.

    David Smith on the other had has a moral duty to speak, be honest, and be consistent, and I have a RIGHT to ask for those things from David Smith because he has my money and I have a CONTRACT with Olint, promising certain things from Olint which has not been met.

    The relationship between me and David Smith and the relationship between me and Cliff Hughes are not the same, therefore the expectations are different. If Cliff Hughes lies, I am not directly damaged as a result. If David Smith lies I could be directly harmed as a result.

  176. What is wrong with you people. Cliff read the email and said he is standing by the story. What you want him to do? come and read it every day? He read it and I will believe Mr Hughes any day over David Smith

  177. I have not read this update on the blog…maybe I missed it. I appologise for the repost if I did.

    Olint wins appeal – accounts stay open
    Posted: 2008-07-18 14:29:21

    The embattled investment Club Olint has won its appeal against the National Commercial Bank (NCB), which was trying to close its accounts.

    The Court of Appeal this morning overturned a Supreme Court ruling for the accounts to be closed.

    Several months ago, NCB served Olint notice that it would close its account in November last year.

    Olint took the matter to the Supreme Court and got an injunction barring the bank from closing the accounts.

    Mr. Justice Roy Jones, who later heard the arguments from the parties, ruled that the bank could close the accounts.

    On the same day, Olint’s lawyers went to the Court of Appeal and got a stay of the Supreme Court order so that the accounts could remain open.

    Olint also appealed the Supreme Court order, which was heard in the Court of Appeal this morning.

    Olint had also filed a civil suit in which serious allegations were made against NCB.

    This morning the Court of Appeal ordered that this suit should go back to the Supreme Court for a speedy trial.

    NCB had said it wanted to close Olints accounts because it had failed to submit its audited financial statements among other breaches.

    In handing down his ruling, Court of Appeal Judge Seymour Panton said there were serious matters to be tried.

    He referred to the power of the bank to close an account where there is no evidence of illegal transactions.

    Justice Panton also said there were also serious issues to be tried in relation to allegations of conspiracy with other banks.

    Justice Panton said if Olint were to succeed in the civil suit, damages would not be adequate compensation.

  178. The question is not whether Cliff lied. The issue is was “Cliff duped by his source.”

    Claiming that one “believes Cliff over DS” is irrelevant if Cliff was duped. Dan Rather was duped but Dan did not think he was not lying at the time because he thought the document he had was authentic, though he did not fact-check. If Dan could make that mistake, then so could Cliff. Only Cliff can answer this now.

    (BTW, it was bloggers who sank the Dan Rather story by asking these tough questions. What the bloggers found was that the font that the document was written that was showed as proof on TV by Dan, did not exist before 1990’s. Yet the document was supposed to have been created in the 70’s. This is how we bloggers can hold our press accountable, by asking the tough questions.)

    What thinking people with common sense are asking Cliff to do is to confirm to us that he was not duped i.e. that the email was not tampered with. its a simple thing. Don’t make it too complicated, please.

  179. Email: Fake or Genuine? (Your Views)

    You see the topic

    thats what we discussing.

    Mi nah say it again

    Him nuh haffi reveal no SOURCES

    A nuh smaddy him need fi verify the email.

    The email must be verified true the IP address by which it was sent which is in the header of the email.

    Which would prove quiet EASILY, once and for all that, ACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT DS is a LIAR!!.

    A man cyah seh him have an email incriminating somebody and nuh back it up.

    But if yall wanna ignore that go ahead because unuh have unuh own AGENDA go a head.

    TCI investigating DS, if him a tief him WELL BE CAUGHT.

  180. It would be useful to see the written decision. Is it available?

  181. Bill Clarke has decided to ‘retire’.

  182. I have to say that was an unexpected ruling by the Court of Appeal. It is not a definitive ruling, but it is a clear indication of how that judge might rule if he had the substantive issues before him.

    Unexpected good news for Olint, I must say.

  183. I am glad Olint won the case now he has no reason to not pay people as his bank accounts remain open. So Super Dave the people are waiting for there money

  184. It’s not just as simple as suing Cliff Hughes. Under the common law, it is not enough to show that the journalist was wrong. You also have to show that either he knew that information was false and that he went ahead and published the information anyway knowing that it would cause harm to publish the untrue information, or that the journalist was reckless and did not make reasonable efforts to verify the information.

    Those are very high barriers to cross.

  185. Olints Lawyer is on TCI now!!!!

  186. Olints Lawyer is on RJR now

  187. Also on Nationwide

  188. The lwayer will convey a message from DS to Olint members…everybody turn in to RJR.

  189. Press release from Olint lawyers mirrors details from the email.

    Cliff Hughes is one of the best journalist, his sources are impeccable

  190. He wants 9 month to pay club members. Principle plus interest.

    Theres a GAG order so he cannot speak.

  191. Its interesting that Cliff ask the attorney if DS is prepare to withdraw his claim that he did not write the email. Which says that Cliff is standing by his claim that the email is indeed not a fake!!!

  192. the lawyers will take the fall, they wrote the email. the content of the email is the truth.. the email was probably initially drafted with the help of his lawyers

  193. hopefully folks on the other blog will stop their foolishness about spoof email. there are Sources and there are sources.

    even Cliff have confidential email about Bill Clarke. the man know his sources

  194. Nationwide says they usually go with sources only when they confirmation and are sure. is no dibby dibby Journalism happen on that station.

  195. Once again the folks on the other blog has been wrong, wrong wrong and will continue to be wrong

  196. “If JM cannot answer NFA questions:

    Who,What.Where and Why over 100mil was moved around between DS, ITFx, JIJ and IL and god knows who else.”

    Except that the question on the NFA is not about that, but about the AML procedures talking about those. In theory, ITFX doesn’t have to state anything about who,what, where, and why the money was moved – they could say “We know what it was, and we sent it back. We don’t think we needed to file a sar, the NFA thinks we did.” and not explain anything.

    People keep thinking that the NFA response means that itrade is going to have to answer to where money went. From my reading, the NFA thinks they should have filed a report, and they’ll have to explain why they didn’t, or take a mea culpa and say that they should.

    For example, look at complaints against other brokerages – FXCM basically did misleading sales practices, and their reply basically says “Oops, our bad.” on some charges and then says “We admit nothing” on others. The response:

    It was a fine. It wasn’t like they had to explain anything.

    interbankfx had a number of issues, as can be seen on theirs. At the end of the day, they basically said “We admit some of this” and said on other parts “We admit nothing”. Results can be seen here:

    And they got fined.

    People thinking that the NFA action against itrade will be some sort of smoking gun must be deluding themselves based on the answers you can see other firms give…. its entirely possible they’ll say “We probably should have filed a sar, oops, our bad” and on other parts they say “We admit nothing” and that might be the end of it.

  197. miachica Said: ….”He wants 9 month to pay club members. Principle plus interest.”…..

    Miachica: Why does he need 9 months if the money is there? Why? Why?

  198. Well Well Turth, we heard it on Nationwide, the release issued by the Lawyers are somewhat simular to the email. its just that he pin the reason for not having any money on the FSC orders. So you see it was only a matter of time that Cliff would show us that he was right.

    Cliff you do it again. Good job, I guess all you people doubting cliff can shut your mouth now.

  199. Truth:

    Can you give us your views on the new developments?


    What was the purpose of that post at this time? Looks like something you said before. What is the significance?

  200. Anyone have the link to the interview/statement?

  201. “What was the purpose of that post at this time? Looks like something you said before. What is the significance?”

    I was just catching up because I hadn’t read in a few days. the problem is that miachica seems to think she is going to get a pile of answers from the nfa response. my advice to that is that people in olint should be trying to get other answers rather than wait on that response, because from what I see from other nfa complaints and responses, there wont be any answers there, and waiting around for that response is dangerous for people who think its going to solve anything

    my advice would be to find out a lot about tci law. that’s what I’ve been doing of late (my friend had money in olint, I mainly read this blog for his information)

  202. I agree that the lawyers remarks bear some resemblance to the email.

    My point was that we needed to ask the question.

    Cliff got of the hook from having to prove it because DS addressed it first, howbeit in an indirect way.

    I hope all of you still understand that we must still never relinquish our duty as citizens to not only question our politicians but our press as well. This was never in doubt as a principle.

    I hope it is also recognized that DS did the right thing by essentially signaling that the email was correct at least in some of it contents.

  203. over on the other blog, they are blaming the accountants for over paying..

    so now add accountants to the list..

    so recent additions are
    Lee Chin
    Bill Clarke,

    when are they going to get around to David Smith for LOSING THE MONEY

  204. There is still some more clarity that needs to come out about the rest of the contents of the email.

    But I will say this, DS is a madman if all of the contents turn out to be fully correct but yet denied writing it. DS must be losing it or getting really bad advice prior to having this new team of dream team lawyers on board.

    The lawyers said that there will be an email sent shortly to club-members.

  205. they just added friends and coworkers for also stealing from Olint

    the power of denial ..

    they are ignoring the obvious…

    the man who frequents the strip clubs
    the man who jets all over the place
    the man who requests the casino

    guess who is responsible for losing Olints money…

  206. Jermaine, you still have missed the point. Never put your trust 100% in any man. Never vouch 100% for any man.

    Not DS, not Cliff, nor Bill Clarke, not Leechin. Anyone can make mistakes. Anyone can get off track and fail us.

  207. So truth, DS lied once again, about the email.

    What did you expect, man wake up.

  208. how about a prayer that David Smith tells us the truth, that would be a practical and realistic prayer

  209. Cliff just mentioned this blog on his show at 6:30pm JA time.

    He said he is going to read a few of our blog responses


  210. True Truth. I think he is going to read yours!

  211. Did Olint just sent out an email to its investors…maybe the press release?

  212. They did. it confirms the email Cliff Hughes read.

  213. The other blog,, is reporting that david sent out a statement to members

  214. Good old Lord Gifford and the rest of his law team’s fee will probably take up the little of the money that is left.

  215. It is the same thing that Cliff read on air today as the press release from Lord Gifford (not the anonymous one that DS denied from wednesday)

  216. Sinta, DaveSin,

    DS only owes me $2000 because I wasnt dumb enough to put my life savings in it.

    Sure I would liek to ask him were my $2000 is and why it taking him 9 months to get but trust me folks I cna pay my BILLS and my income or status not coem from investing in Olint.

    Its seems people like you are trying really hard to rub this in the faces of those who will probbaly lose everything.

  217. Truth, the substance of the email I just got from Olint and the substance of the email Cliff Hughes read are essentially the same.

  218. The statement claims that the problem is squarely an accounting problem.

  219. So obviously even the due diligence was made up. Bwoy dah man deh good.

    So far lets look at whos been vindicated;

    Michael Lee Chin = Vindicated
    NCB = Vindicated
    FSC = Vindicated
    Cliff Hughes = Vindicated

    David Smith = You decide.

  220. This blog blow up big now.

    Btw, Cliff just give me a shout out.

    Him say “Truth, I hear you. We check our source”

  221. Bwoy dem just ignore the # 4 bus on Nationwide.

  222. Cliff and Elon, just read several of our emails on air, kulcull, Davesin, miachia, truth” responses and views were read.

    Cliff said to me “Truth, I agree with you that the question needed to be asked”.

    He went on further to say “Truth, we did check our source, and was prepared to prove it today”. or something to that effect

    Big respect to Cliff, for dealing with the issues head on.

  223. Those brokers that you listed had issues with unethical SALES PRACTICES and security deposit issues. Not even clothes to what ITFX was doing.



    On December 8, 2006, NFA issued a Complaint charging FXCM with using deficient promotional material and failing to uphold high standards of commercial honor and just and equitable principles of trade; and failing to establish and implement an adequate anti-money laundering program. The Complaint also charged FXCM and Niv with failure to supervise.

    In the case of interbank fx it was a failure to collect security deposits that why there were only fined $25000.

    How the is it similar to ITFX….please point it out for me because I didnt have time to read it…were they moving around 100M dollars for one special trader??

    If you work for The Chief… I dont care…. they my get off like you say . I still think they were helping DS. .

  224. Which one of my emails did he read?

  225. “In the case of interbank fx it was a failure to collect security deposits that why there were only fined $25000.”

    The other one for interbank was the more substantial one, with sales practice fraud. If you’d like, there are others on the NFA’s site that had AML procedures that led to a fine and nothing else. In fact, since you pointed it out, when you click on FXCM’s first complaint, it lists this one which you missed:

    Gain (aka, was also cited for the following:


    “How the is it similar to ITFX….please point it out for me because I didnt have time to read it…were they moving around 100M dollars for one special trader??”

    Ignoring that you didn’t actually read the complaints to see that FXCM was also cited for AML policy (the same thing), I was only pointing out that the nfa complaint probably won’t lead to anything. you keep pointing it out like its some massive thing and somehow, the end of the month is going to have some massive revelation. the nfa is only concerned over the internal policy of the sars. they had the power to issue an emergency action to shut itrade down when they put out the complaint. the fact is, while they still could shut down itrade, it’s an unlikely scenario, and will probably more than likely be a fine. it’s a policy complaint – if it was an actual money laundering investigation, it would be a Department of Justice or Treasury matter.

    “If you work for The Chief… I dont care…. they my get off like you say . I still think they were helping DS. .”

    I don’t work for DS (I’m assuming that’s The Chief). I find it funny that if someone disagrees with you, you think that has to mean they’re working for DS.

  226. in searching google, I guess you meant the FX Chief, which is JM. Isn’t IM the one who the complaint is against tho? JM is registered on the NFA site – if it was money laundering instead of AML they were investigating, wouldn’t they have cited him?

  227. for the record, I don’t work for DS, JM, IM, itrade, the nfa, or anyone here. I have my cfp, and i have a friend who had money with olint, trades with itrade, and dealt with worldwide as well

  228. Sinta,

    your right the NFA complains probably wont give light about why money was being moved around.

    “ts funny how everybody can call DS out for the crock that he is..but no one sees what was going on with that. I would like to know what was he giving 50M for and it better not have been club member money.

    “However, approximately $50
    million of the funds which Olint and TCI withdrew were sent to JIJ Investments
    (“JlJ”), a company owned by Martinez and his brother and father, Jacob and Jared Martinez.”.

    Where did DS get this money from?

    It better not have been clubmember money

    Why nobody dont care about this?

  229. “Why nobody dont care about this?”

    People care, but a) we don’t know if that money was ever sent back to TCI (i suspect it probably was, or we’d probably be seeing a doj investigation by now) b) the complaint probably won’t ever answer that. i suspect the money was probably sent back, simply because someone at the nfa would have mentioned to the government what they were looking at with aml. then again, I could be wrong, but like I said, I don’t think the nfa complaint will have anything that would help

    like i said, for the concern of the most people’s benefit, I want to know if DS really did have money at oanda and fxcm, and if he did, how much was there/is there. 50M is nice, but I’m hearing that olint had from 600M to 2B… where is that money? was it ever at oanda or fxcm? is it in bank accounts? was it spent? once we know those answers, we’ll have a better idea of where to focus attention.

  230. David Smith has come across many obstacles and I personally think that if there was not for other bad minded people he would probably still be very successfull. Like any other growing institution there are problems. Look at bank that crash, when they go under you are only guaranteed up to a certain amount, and yet we give these fool our hard earned money to possibly throw away. So why are they any better than David? NCB can crash tomorrow and then tell you sorry I can only give you back up to 10,000 dollars. Then what would you do? With any thing you do in life there are risks !!!!!

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